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Valley Legend [12508]
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IF 5000 russians
Apr 8, 2025, 1:57 PM
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got off a chinese cruise ship in hawaii
do they have US constitutional rights?
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Top TigerNet [31504]
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Well, due process certainly applies
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Apr 8, 2025, 2:01 PM
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Otherwise I assume you're fine just grabbing them and shipping them (and anyone else around who might look like they belong to the same group) off to a foreign prison?
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Valley Legend [12508]
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Re: Well, due process certainly applies
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Apr 8, 2025, 2:03 PM
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where does their right to due process come from
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Top TigerNet [31504]
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The constitution as applied by Supreme Court rulings
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Apr 8, 2025, 2:13 PM
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Eventually, the Supreme Court extended these constitutional protections to all aliens within the United States, including those who entered unlawfully, declaring that "aliens who have once passed through our gates, even illegally, may be expelled only after proceedings conforming to traditional standards of fairness encompassed in due process of law" *
*Shaughnessy v. United States ex rel. Mezei, 345 U.S. 206, 212 (1953);
see also Mathews v. Diaz, 426 U.S. 67, 77 (1976) (There are literally millions of aliens within the jurisdiction of the United States. The Fifth Amendment, as well as the Fourteenth Amendment, protects every one of these persons from deprivation of life, liberty, or property without due process of law.); Plyler v. Doe, 457 U.S. 202, 215 (1982) (holding that unlawfully present aliens were entitled to both due process and equal protection under the Fourteenth Amendment).
From:
https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/artI-S8-C18-8-7-2/ALDE_00001262/
Might I also add that the ONLY way yo guarantee the rights to citizens is for due process to apply to everyone regardless of citizenship. Otherwise the simple assertion that you are not a citizen would be enough to put you in a position you could never prove due process applied to you.
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Tiger Titan [48478]
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Tiger Spirit [9722]
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Re: Well, due process certainly applies
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Apr 8, 2025, 2:23 PM
[ in reply to Re: Well, due process certainly applies ] |
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U S Constitution, Bill of Rights...
"Article the seventh... No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation."
Note that it refers to "No person.."
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TigerNet Icon [151784]
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CU Medallion [20775]
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Even if you are an extremely ignorant POTUS?***
Apr 8, 2025, 2:59 PM
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Tiger Titan [48478]
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A better question is...
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Apr 8, 2025, 2:05 PM
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How quickly would you be rushing out there to join up with their army?
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Valley Legend [12508]
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Hall of Famer [8122]
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If someone says you're a russian who just got off a chinese cruise ship
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Apr 8, 2025, 2:14 PM
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do you have US constitutional rights?
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Tiger Titan [48478]
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I've decided to report you to ICE
Apr 8, 2025, 2:17 PM
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And declare that you are in illegal immigrant.
How are you going to prove that wrong when they arrest you?
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Clemson Conqueror [11317]
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My Georgia birth certificate, my Drivers License, my card with my SSN, my
Apr 8, 2025, 2:56 PM
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Costco Membership card, ... I could go on and on.
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Top TigerNet [31504]
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Youre so close to getting it
Apr 8, 2025, 2:59 PM
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How/when do you provide those and to who? If folks can be whisked away without ever being given a chance based on a faulty assumption then you can’t prove that assumption false.
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Clemson Conqueror [11317]
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I know that's what some folks are screaming, but I just don't believe that if
Apr 8, 2025, 3:02 PM
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I got scooped up and said "go to my house, my birth certificate is there" that it wouldn't be checked.
This is just fear mongering.
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Tiger Titan [48478]
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I bet the guy in Maryland said some similar stuff...
Apr 8, 2025, 3:05 PM
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On his way to El Salvador.
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Clemson Conqueror [11317]
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He was put on the deportable list in 2019. I feel for him, but I don't think
Apr 8, 2025, 3:10 PM
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folks are being rounded up with absolutely no reason.
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Ultimate Tiger [34840]
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No, it's really not...what happened to having a healthy skepticism...
Apr 8, 2025, 3:06 PM
[ in reply to I know that's what some folks are screaming, but I just don't believe that if ] |
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Of government? Now we're supposed to trust the federal government to "do the right thing" and you don't think you need a right of redress to the courts?
That just sounds crazy to me.
It back to the point...the reports at least are that these folks were scooped up - no notice to their families - no chance for anyone scooped up to make a case that the gov has their facts wrong.
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Tiger Titan [48478]
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Off the street by men wearing masks on top of that
Apr 8, 2025, 3:10 PM
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But everything is fine.
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Clemson Conqueror [11317]
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I have a very healthy skepticism of gubbermint. I also have a healthy skepticism
Apr 8, 2025, 3:18 PM
[ in reply to No, it's really not...what happened to having a healthy skepticism... ] |
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of "reporting".
10 million folks put their pinkie toe on our soil and yelled "due process!" - knowing that to the existing admin, that meant they could stay for 5 years. Trump's approach is a horrendous over-correction. It's not right, but I'm not losing sleep over some non-citizens who weren't supposed to be here.
It's all a show. Those images from El Salvador have been shown over-and-over. It's making folks who were thinking of sneaking in to think twice.
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Ultimate Tiger [34840]
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That's not what due process means...
Apr 8, 2025, 5:30 PM
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And I don't think you have the facts straight on this case. The people deported were here legally, which is why they were deported under the Alien Enemies Act.
Do you not think we should follow the Constitution?
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Top TigerNet [31504]
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Dude sent to a foreign prison in a clerical error
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Apr 8, 2025, 3:11 PM
[ in reply to I know that's what some folks are screaming, but I just don't believe that if ] |
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Was here legally. Yet given no chance to prove it. Awful generous of you to assume you’d be given the chance to prove citizenship in a similar circumstance. Though, depending on skin hue and accent they might be more inclined to give ya a break and check your paperwork.
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Clemson Conqueror [11317]
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That guy was put on the deportable list in 2019. It's not the same as grabbing
Apr 8, 2025, 3:26 PM
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folks randomly off the street.
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Hall of Famer [8122]
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Probably the heart of the issue here
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Apr 8, 2025, 4:02 PM
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is thinking you couldn't be put on a list.
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Top TigerNet [31504]
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Tiger Titan [48478]
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But you've been arrested and you're not receiving due process
Apr 8, 2025, 3:04 PM
[ in reply to My Georgia birth certificate, my Drivers License, my card with my SSN, my ] |
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No lawyer. No bail. No phone calls. No visits from your family. No trial. You're about to be boarded on a plane for another country.
How are you proving you're a citizen to them without due process?
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Clemson Conqueror [11317]
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I hear you. I stated above that I don't believe it's to THAT extreme. I do think
Apr 8, 2025, 3:09 PM
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if I said all of these things exist and could be checked, they would be.
Many of the anecdotal horror stories that have been floated - it has turned out there's some legitimacy. Overstayed VISAs, attending terrorists funerals, on the deportable list...
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Tiger Titan [48478]
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YET. And that's the point
Apr 8, 2025, 3:15 PM
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They're testing the waters with immigrants to see what they can get away with.
If we permit it to happen, then NO ONE is a citizen when the thugs come for you. You are way too trusting of this administration.
The law states clearly everyone is to be given due process, and masked thugs are nabbing people off the street and shipping them off to other countries without giving them due process, and you're just kind of shrugging it off.
And people like Rangers are cheering it on.
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Clemson Conqueror [11317]
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That's going very far down the slippery slope. Perhaps I'm naive. I just don't
Apr 8, 2025, 3:23 PM
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think we'll be looking at the YET scenario.
I think it stinks what Trump is doing - but I also thought it stunk what Biden's admin did (letting 10 million wander into the country). The Biden admin's approach was very extreme (doing nothing) and now Trump's reaction is very extreme (doing too much).
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Tiger Titan [48478]
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Sure...
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Apr 8, 2025, 4:11 PM
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I forgot that authoritarian leaders who demand complete and unshaken loyalty to themselves never keep violating more people's rights once they get away with violating one group's rights. Definitely never happens.
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Ultimate Tiger [34840]
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Your very question displays a certain level of ignorance...
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Apr 8, 2025, 3:03 PM
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"US Constitutional rights"
Well, depends on which rights...right? Each part of the Constitution spells out what/who it's applicable to.
For instance, they wouldn't get the right to vote, because Constitution requires Citizenship to vote.
The 5th and 14th Amendments (due process) use the term "all persons." Doesn't say all legal residents, doesn't say citizens...it says "all persons" and it does so on purpose.
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Valley Legend [12508]
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Re: IF 5000 russians
Apr 8, 2025, 3:59 PM
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so while they are waiting to see the judge, should they not be allowed to vote in local elections?
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Ultimate Tiger [34840]
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you know you're replying to yourself, right?...
Apr 8, 2025, 4:01 PM
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just checking
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