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Tiger Titan [48478]
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Due Process for Dummies
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Apr 10, 2025, 8:12 AM
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Since we have some folks here who don't understand how due process works since they slept through their history/government classes en route to their 2.6 GPA, or they went to Podunk High School and learned all they knew about government from the running backs coach who told them our Constitution was modeled after Gawd, here's a simple little FAQ to help them understand due process and why it's so important, especially now.
What exactly is due process?
It's a concept protected in the 5th and 14th Amendments of the Constitution that protects all people in the U.S. from being stripped of "life, liberty, and property" without first going through the legal process when accused of a crime. These rights are addressed on both the federal and state level by the amendments.
But what does that mean?
That means a person accused and charged with a crime must be given a bond hearing and have bail set (or no bail if the crime is severe enough of the person poses a flight risk), the right to (and access to) an attorney, a speedy and public trial, a trial by jury, have the right to confront witnesses against him/her and bring witnesses to his/her defense, and has the right to remain silent.
But doesn't that only apply to U.S. citizens?
No. In the 1903 Supreme Court case Japanese Immigrant Case, the SCOTUS stated, "aliens who have once passed through our gates, even illegally, may be expelled only after proceedings conforming to traditional standards of fairness encompassed in due process of law." They also said, "an alien who has entered the country, and has become subject in all respects to its jurisdiction, and a part of its population" could not be deported without an "opportunity to be heard upon the questions involving his right to be and remain in the United States."
That means ANY and EVERY single person in the United States is GUARANTEED due process, whether they be a citizen or here legally or here illegally, according to the U.S. Constitution and the SCOTUS.
That's not fair! They're here ILLEGALY!
Too bad. The law is the law.
But what if they're violent gang members?
It doesn't matter. All accused criminals are guaranteed due process.
Why is it important to protect these terrible people?
Our nation only remains free with our consistency in enforcing the law and protecting Constitutional rights. If exceptions are made, then government can label anyone a criminal and, say, nab them off the street with masked thugs and have them hidden in secret prisons... not that THAT would ever happen in the U.S.
Our founding fathers put this in place to prevent an abusive government from making people disappear, including law-abiding citizens. If you are denied due process, you can't prove to anyone that you're a citizen.
But why can't Trump have exceptions since he's trying to MAGA!?
I know for the history class sleepers, this is going to be a statement that they hate, but the Trump administration has proven itself to be a corrupt one that doesn't respect the Constitution. Thus, now, more than ever, upholding due process for all people is paramount.
YES, if they are allowed to get away with it on immigrants, they absolutely will use it on citizens. Yes, they will. It's naïve to think otherwise.
This sounds like a lot of liberal BS!
Take it up with Madison and the rest of the men who put these Amendments into place.
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Top TigerNet [30354]
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Qwestion ... how long would due process take for 7.2 million people ?
Apr 10, 2025, 8:21 AM
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Best guesstimate.
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Tiger Titan [48478]
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Answer: Not sure but doesn't matter. See the Constitution for more.***
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Apr 10, 2025, 8:26 AM
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Top TigerNet [30354]
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Where does it say they have to stay in the U.S. until their hearing date ?
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Apr 10, 2025, 8:31 AM
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Please highlight this area so its easily visible.
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Ring of Honor [23613]
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Not highlighted but here it is
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Apr 10, 2025, 8:35 AM
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No. In the 1903 Supreme Court case Japanese Immigrant Case, the SCOTUS stated, "aliens who have once passed through our gates, even illegally, may be expelled only after proceedings conforming to traditional standards of fairness encompassed in due process of law." They also said, "an alien who has entered the country, and has become subject in all respects to its jurisdiction, and a part of its population" could not be deported without an "opportunity to be heard upon the questions involving his right to be and remain in the United States."
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Ring of Honor [23613]
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Even shorter part of the SCOTUS decision for you
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Apr 10, 2025, 8:39 AM
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"aliens who have once passed through our gates, even illegally, may be expelled only after proceedings conforming to traditional standards of fairness encompassed in due process of law."
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Tiger Titan [48478]
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Top TigerNet [30354]
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Guess we'll have to expand on Obama's detention centers
Apr 10, 2025, 8:42 AM
[ in reply to Not highlighted but here it is ] |
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till we can get these millions of folks processed.
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Clemson Icon [24215]
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Re: Guess we'll have to expand on Obama's detention centers
Apr 10, 2025, 8:45 AM
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As long as they aren't in hotels.
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Tiger Titan [48478]
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TigerNet Icon [151784]
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Clemson Conqueror [11317]
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I understand "due process". I also think that the US of A's hospitality is
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Apr 10, 2025, 8:51 AM
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taken advantage of - especially when you have an administration that will literally send the National Guard to a state to try to prevent that state from stopping folks for coming in.
Again, I know what it is. I also know that when folks become aware that all they have to do to get to stay for 5 years is show up, stick their arm across the border and yell "Asylum!" - they will come by the millions.
The Biden admin allowed it to become an emergency.
So, when they deport violent gang members without due process - I'll shed no tears. I will also tune out the fear mongers who then yell - "They'll come for you next!"
Politically - it was actually a genius move. Images of those illegals getting sent to El Salvador has been shown over-and-over. Folks thinking of sneaking in will now think twice (there's no more Welcome Mat). Plus - you've got Dems screaming "Turn that plane around!" at a plane full of gang members. It's why they lost the election in 2024...
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TigerNet Icon [151784]
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This is a pretty bad take,
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Apr 10, 2025, 8:56 AM
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considering at least some of the people on those planes shouldn't have been there. But hey, it didn't happen to you, it was just brown people with tattoos, so no worries.
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Tiger Titan [48478]
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It seems the arguments keep boiling down to...
Apr 10, 2025, 9:05 AM
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"Well, I know it's against the Constitution and the law and all, butbutbutbutbutbutbut I just wanna have it go down like this!"
That's it. That's the argument.
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Clemson Conqueror [11317]
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Another reason the Dems lost in 2024 - No - it's not a race issue. Fly a bunch
Apr 10, 2025, 9:07 AM
[ in reply to This is a pretty bad take, ] |
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of white gang members to El Salvador and I won't bat an eye.
I do feel for the Maryland guy. I know ICE found that he had gang ties in 2019 and was deportable (but not deported because he was from El Salvador and his return would put him in danger).
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TigerNet Icon [151784]
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And here is exactly the problem:
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Apr 10, 2025, 9:10 AM
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you know ICE found he had gang ties in 2019, because.....ICE told you he had gang ties in 2019. That's it. Nothing was presented, proven, or adjudicated by a judge in a US court, it's just a statement from an agency.
Do you see the problem with this, or not?
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Clemson Conqueror [11317]
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Honestly, I haven't tracked his court case. I know a judge was involved because
Apr 10, 2025, 9:30 AM
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it was a judge who said it's not safe to send this El Salvadorian to El Salvador. So, he was here illegally?
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Tiger Titan [48478]
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Hold up. You just destroyed your own argument.
Apr 10, 2025, 9:11 AM
[ in reply to Another reason the Dems lost in 2024 - No - it's not a race issue. Fly a bunch ] |
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You say you don't have a problem with them deporting and imprisoning gang members. BUT the ONLY evidence that you have that they are gang members is that the federal government is telling you this. The same fed that you've spoken out against on other issues.
However, the moment more information is revealed about one of the people deported, you suddenly feel bad for him because you know he didn't deserve it.
See the problem? You've crushed your own argument. The moment you actually learn facts on someone--which would come out in due process--instead of just blindly trusting our government, your view changes.
Also, how do you feel about the students here legally who are suddenly having visas stripped and are getting snatched off the street by masked men for their speech?
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Clemson Icon [24215]
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Top TigerNet [31504]
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Tiger Titan [48478]
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Last week, he said he didn't worry about it being applied to citizens.
Apr 10, 2025, 9:02 AM
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Just yesterday, the Trump admin said they were looking for ways to apply it to citizens.
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TigerNet Champion [120763]
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Re: Last week, he said he didn't worry about it being applied to citizens.
Apr 10, 2025, 3:24 PM
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He also said it last Friday night, right before he bragged about winning his golf tournament.
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Clemson Conqueror [11317]
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Tiger Titan [48478]
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Putting aside the fact that the SCOTUS says that's illegal
Apr 10, 2025, 9:15 AM
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How do you feel about all the legal ones who are being treated the same way
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Top TigerNet [31504]
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And if they weren't?
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Apr 10, 2025, 9:17 AM
[ in reply to Yep - if "this" group of people is gang members here illegally.*** ] |
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I mean, isn't that the whole point? The government (or more accurately one group within the government) claims it's true and has no duty to prove that and for that due process is stripped. That is precisely the problem.
I'm likely farther to the left than most folks here, but I don't have a real problem with deporting folks who came here illegally and committed crimes. But there must be some form of adjudicated truth there for this to not be a system perfectly geared to effing over people.
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Ultimate Tiger [34834]
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Hate to sound like a broken record, but they weren't illegals...
Apr 10, 2025, 9:29 AM
[ in reply to Yep - if "this" group of people is gang members here illegally.*** ] |
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that's why they were deported under the Alien Enemies Act...which is the crux of this story.
If they were here illegally, then they would have been deported by "conventional" means.
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Tiger Titan [48478]
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Yeah, uh...
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Apr 10, 2025, 9:01 AM
[ in reply to I understand "due process". I also think that the US of A's hospitality is ] |
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While we can talk all we want about the failures of current and past admins--and there are many--that doesn't alter the process as mapped out by our Constitution. We must look to fix those systems without breaking our own system of rights.
And YES, if a government is allowed to abuse those rights with an illegal immigrant, they WILL eventually look for ways to do it to others. They already are! You said just a week ago that you didn't worry about it because it wouldn't ever get extended to you. Well, here's the Trump admin now stating out loud that they're exploring ways to extend this to citizens.
So, when they deport violent gang members without due process - I'll shed no tears. I will also tune out the fear mongers who then yell - "They'll come for you next!"
And it's attitudes like this that have led to oppressive dictatorships throughout history. "I don't care because it won't affect me!"
Until it does.
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Ultimate Tiger [34834]
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Point of clarification...the alleged gang members...
Apr 10, 2025, 9:07 AM
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(I'm I don't doubt most of them were gang members) were not here illegally, which is why the Alien Enemies Act was used.
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Clemson Conqueror [11317]
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The Trump admin talked about extending it to folks who had committed
Apr 10, 2025, 9:15 AM
[ in reply to Yeah, uh... ] |
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heinous crimes so they could be sent to El Salvadorian type prisons. Again - no - I'm not going shed tears for baby rapers getting sent somewhere bad. And again - no - I don't have any fear that it could one day be extended to me.
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Tiger Titan [48478]
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#### the Trump admin; support the Constitution
Apr 10, 2025, 9:21 AM
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You're falling into a common dictator trap. They go after people you wouldn't "shed a tear for" so they can make it legitimate. Then once they have that secured, they'll go after the people like you.
Really? You want American citizens shipped off to foreign prisons?
And yeah, they will extend it to you. And they'll tell everyone you were a horrible criminal and just trust them on it, and other people just like you will believe it.
If you haven't studied history enough and seen previous exact examples of this and can't apply it to critical thinking now, no one can make you realize it until it's too late.
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Top TigerNet [31504]
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You still don't see the issue?
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Apr 10, 2025, 9:22 AM
[ in reply to The Trump admin talked about extending it to folks who had committed ] |
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If you're cool with citizens being sent to foreign prisons because they committed "heinous crimes", and you're cool with due process being rights being removed in this process then you have to accept that the ACCUSATION must be enough for you to be cool with it happening to you, or me, or anyone else.
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Ultimate Tiger [34834]
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You have the right to have a stupid opinion :)....
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Apr 10, 2025, 9:04 AM
[ in reply to I understand "due process". I also think that the US of A's hospitality is ] |
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What you're describing is only following the law when it's convenient or better a Machiavellian-attitude towards justice.
I support the Constitution and the laws of our country. Anyone serving in high office swore an oath to the Constitution. If you support ignoring the law to get the outcome you want...I'll steal a play from the MAGA manual..."maybe you ought to find another country to live in!"
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Tiger Titan [48478]
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This is the societal result when...
Apr 10, 2025, 9:08 AM
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Too much weight and importance is placed on STEM and the humanities are demonized as a waste of time. Both are extremely important to a free society and there are plenty of historical examples of that.
A nation that abandons the importance of the humanities is destined to fall.
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Ultimate Tiger [34834]
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I'm not sure this is a direct result of that because I don't know his...
Apr 10, 2025, 9:14 AM
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background.
But I agree with the general sentiment you post in terms of potential impact on society.
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All-Pro [771]
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TigerNet Icon [151784]
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Do you ever contribute anything meaningful when the adults are talking?
Apr 10, 2025, 9:22 AM
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Or just interrupt to show us what noise you can make with your armpit?
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All-Pro [771]
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Re: Do you even contribute anything meaningful when the adults are talking?
Apr 10, 2025, 9:31 AM
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Adults? Really. You mean people that get on a chat board every day of their lives a scream about things that they have no control over? If that's what you call being "adult ", well lets just leave that one alone. You just keep trying to convince yourself that you're intelligent. You'll figure things out sooner or later...maybe.
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TigerNet Icon [151784]
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A simple "no" would have sufficed.***
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Apr 10, 2025, 10:00 AM
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Clemson Icon [24215]
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Re: A simple "no" would have sufficed.***
Apr 10, 2025, 10:15 AM
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He doesn't have the mental capacity. He is clueless and has trouble forming a coherent position on anything.
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All-Pro [771]
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Re: This is the societal result when...
Apr 10, 2025, 9:40 AM
[ in reply to This is the societal result when... ] |
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Have you been picked up by ICE today? Buy the way, they won't let you keep your helmet and gopro in the prisons in El Salvador. Keep smiling.
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Legend [6772]
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you know nuttin about nuttin
Apr 10, 2025, 9:21 AM
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except for how to type a prompt into ChatGPT.
A pseudo intellectual.
Unfortunately for you commie types, AI enables you to know even less while believing you know more.
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Top TigerNet [31504]
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So...
Apr 10, 2025, 9:24 AM
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Should we just take that as you not giving a #### about the constitution?
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Ultimate Tiger [36202]
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Let's assume ChatGPT wrote the whole thing. Which part was false?
Apr 10, 2025, 9:25 AM
[ in reply to you know nuttin about nuttin ] |
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Because it doesn't sound like you're actually refuting a single word of it.
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Ultimate Tiger [34834]
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shut up commie***
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Apr 10, 2025, 9:31 AM
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Ultimate Tiger [34834]
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^^ resident scholar...that has never actually been "correct" in his history here***
Apr 10, 2025, 9:31 AM
[ in reply to you know nuttin about nuttin ] |
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Tiger Titan [48478]
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Son...
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Apr 10, 2025, 9:40 AM
[ in reply to you know nuttin about nuttin ] |
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You are, without a doubt, one of the dumbest people to ever grace this board. I don't need AI to explain something that I learned when I was 14.
You're a fascist, a racist, you hate America and its freedoms, and you've stated all those things on your own. Couple that cheering on people dying in Asheville during the hurricane and calling someone's daughter a slut on here. I hold as the highest compliment to be considered very different than you.
This post made you mad because you hate our BoR. That's it.
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Ultimate Tiger [38724]
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