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Tiger Spirit [9517]
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Best Clemson Football Player Ever?
Oct 1, 2009, 4:04 PM
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I know this is as subjective a question as ever but my choice is Terry Kinard - our first 1st-team consensus All-American, cog on our national title team, etc.
I know some of you younger guys think of players in the past ten years or so but think of Clemson football as a whole. I've been watching Clemson football since the mid-60s so I've got an advantage over you but think overall as best as you can.
I know somebody will say this but no, IMO, Woody Dantzler is not our greatest player ever - neither was Rod Gardner as another example.
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All-TigerNet [11170]
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Levon Kirkland***
Oct 1, 2009, 4:06 PM
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110%er [5298]
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Re: Levon Kirkland***
Oct 1, 2009, 4:06 PM
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Im going with Jonnyboy.
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Hall of Famer [8973]
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That' sweet. When did he ask you out?***
Oct 1, 2009, 4:08 PM
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All-TigerNet [11170]
TigerPulse: 93%
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I don't ask***
Oct 1, 2009, 4:09 PM
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110%er [5476]
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Tiger Spirit [9517]
TigerPulse: 95%
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Why do you say this? He's better than the players....
Oct 1, 2009, 4:08 PM
[ in reply to Levon Kirkland*** ] |
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in the ROH, for example? Yes, a great player but why the greatest?
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All-TigerNet [11170]
TigerPulse: 93%
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because
Oct 1, 2009, 4:11 PM
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In 1989, Kirkland burst onto the national scene with his constant harassment of All-American West Virginia quarterback Major Harris in the Gator Bowl to cap off a first-team All-ACC season. In that Gator Bowl victory, he earned MVP honors with nine tackles, a sack, and three quarterback pressures. He was a finalist (and the only underclassmen) for the Butkus Award and a second-team UPI All-American in 1990 on one of the top defense's in Clemson history, a unit that ranked first in the country in total defense. Kirkland finished his days as a Tiger in 1991 as a semifinalist for the Lombardi Award and was named a first-team All-American according to Kodak/AFCA, Sporting News, Scripps Howard, and Walter Camp.
Kirkland left Clemson among the leaders in several statistical categories. He is tied for second in fumble recoveries (7), ninth in career sacks (19), and 11th in career tackles for loss (40). Following his Clemson career, Kirkland was a second-round draft pick by the Pittsburgh Steelers in the 1992 NFL Draft. He played 11 seasons in the NFL with Pittsburgh, the Seattle Seahawks, and the Philadelphia Eagles. He was named All-Pro in 1996 and 1997 and played in the Pro Bowl after the 1996 and 1997 seasons. After being named to Clemson's Centennial team in 1996, Kirkland was inducted into the Clemson Hall of Fame in 2001.
I don't remember your guy, I was 7.
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Tiger Spirit [9517]
TigerPulse: 95%
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Good points about Levon but now you need to......
Oct 1, 2009, 4:16 PM
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research Terry Kinard's accomplishments and compare them and then tell me how Kirkland is the better player. Yes, Levon was a great linebacker for us but you should have seen Kinard play.
Also, Kirkland did have a great pro career but I'm talking strictly about a player's achievements while at Clemson.
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Paw Master [16310]
TigerPulse: 98%
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They named a building after McFadden.***
Oct 1, 2009, 4:17 PM
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All-TigerNet [11170]
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I hear you, but I can't comment on the accomplishments
Oct 1, 2009, 4:18 PM
[ in reply to Good points about Levon but now you need to...... ] |
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of someone I can't remember just by reading his bio...although I understand he's great.
If that's the case then Banks McFadden has them all beaten.
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Aficionado [103]
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I remember that game against West Virginia, the announcers
Oct 1, 2009, 4:45 PM
[ in reply to because ] |
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said Major Harris meet General Kirkland. One of those random things you remember as a child. I thought they were going to kill us after that first drive with Harris and Reggie Rembrandt but after that drive we shut them down.
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All-Time Great [88521]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Anthony Simmons, greatest LB, Jeff Davis 2nd.***
Oct 2, 2009, 7:35 AM
[ in reply to Levon Kirkland*** ] |
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Trainer [40]
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Re: Best Clemson Football Player Ever?
Oct 1, 2009, 4:08 PM
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Jeff Davis, for what he meant to the team as far as leadership.
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Clemson Icon [24717]
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Fridge.***
Oct 1, 2009, 4:09 PM
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Paw Master [16310]
TigerPulse: 98%
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Banks McFadden punted, passed, ran, and intercepted...
Oct 1, 2009, 4:13 PM
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He was good.
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All-TigerNet [11170]
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when did you see him play?***
Oct 1, 2009, 4:14 PM
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Paw Master [16310]
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Member [28]
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Re: Best Clemson Football Player Ever?
Oct 1, 2009, 4:15 PM
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If you are talking exclusively about their college career then I would say Kinard. However if you are talking about football career overall, I would have to go with Brian Dawkins.
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Tiger Spirit [9517]
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Talking strictly about Clemson career.....
Oct 1, 2009, 4:17 PM
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only. Now if you're talking NFL, I would say Brian Dawkins is as good if not the best pro player we've ever had in the NFL.
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1st Rounder [639]
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Re: Best Clemson Football Player Ever?
Oct 1, 2009, 4:23 PM
[ in reply to Re: Best Clemson Football Player Ever? ] |
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Brian Dawkins gets my vote simply because he has proven it at the professional level.
Although there have been players who have had better careers at Clemson...
some names of other players that might make the list:
CJ Spiller, D-Ham, A. Wyatt, Justin Miller, both Perry Brothers, Levon Kirkland, Anthony Simmons, Rod Gardner, Leroy Hill, Terry Allen, Brenston Buckner (recent players)
Banks McFadden, Jeff Davis, etc... (old-school)
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null [4]
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Re: Best Clemson Football Player Ever?
Oct 1, 2009, 4:24 PM
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Ciro Piccorillo
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null [4]
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Ciro Piccorillo***
Oct 1, 2009, 4:24 PM
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All-TigerNet [11170]
TigerPulse: 93%
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AL DEL GRECO!!!
Oct 1, 2009, 4:27 PM
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anyone else remember that commercial?
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1st Rounder [639]
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Re: AL DEL GRECO!!!
Oct 1, 2009, 4:29 PM
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Chris Gardocki (sp?)
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All-TigerNet [11170]
TigerPulse: 93%
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Treadwell was better***
Oct 1, 2009, 4:30 PM
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Orange Phenom [14374]
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Absolutely....
Oct 1, 2009, 4:42 PM
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Clemson won or tied seven games late in the fourth quarter with a Treadwell kick. Without his leg, people wouldn't talk near as much about Clemson's success in the 1980s.
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Dynasty Maker [3283]
TigerPulse: 94%
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Oh wow . . .
Oct 1, 2009, 4:31 PM
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this is a hard question and I won't pretend to really have an answer, but guys that come to mind are . . .
Terry Allen (only 3 years, though)
Banks McFadden
Jeff Davis
Steve Fuller
I don't know if he'd be considered a candidate for greatest ever, but I always loved watching Donnell Woolford play. Terrance Flagler, too.
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Dynasty Maker [3283]
TigerPulse: 94%
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How about Dumb Dumb Wyndham . . . . just kidding****
Oct 1, 2009, 4:32 PM
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d
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Orange Blooded [2587]
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The Fridge...and little brother***
Oct 1, 2009, 4:41 PM
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All-In [10739]
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charlie waters***
Oct 1, 2009, 4:41 PM
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Athletic Dir [1110]
TigerPulse: 99%
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My Top 5
Oct 1, 2009, 4:46 PM
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1.Jeff Davis: He was the leading tackler for 3 years and he was the center of the D on the 81 team
2. Terry Kinard: He was just as good as Davis, but from the MLB spot Davis impacted almost every play
3. Michael Dean Perry: Unblockable. Dominated every snap. Still the sack leader. Based on sheer talent alone, I believe he had no equal at Clemson
4. Levon Kirland: The driving force for the Clemson D during our best four year span(Don't sell Ed McDaniel short at MLB though. He put up some big numbers)
5. Steve Fuller: He put us on the map as a program. Slight edge over Dantzler at QB
6. CJ Spiller: Most talented RB to play at Clemson. Rob Spence and under utilization were his enemies
7. Donnel Woolford: Our best cover corner ever and its not even close
8. William Perry: When motivated and playing below 325 he was unblockable
9. Dantzler: Human highlight reel
10. Rodney Williams: Flame away but I'll take 38 wins in four years out of any QB. He absolutely understood how to run an offense better than any QB we have ever had. More talent than given credit for.
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Athletic Dir [1110]
TigerPulse: 99%
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top 10 that is
Oct 1, 2009, 4:47 PM
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Top 10 that is
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Member [22]
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Re: My Top 5
Oct 2, 2009, 12:08 AM
[ in reply to My Top 5 ] |
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Fill, good call on Rodney Williams. He ran the option the best I have ever seen at Clemson. Was a marginal passer during the regular season, but became superman as a passer in the bowl games.
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Orange Phenom [14374]
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Hands down, it was Joe Cobb...
Oct 1, 2009, 4:57 PM
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There, I said it.
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null [59]
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Who is Joe Cobb? When did...
Oct 2, 2009, 1:26 AM
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he play at clemson?
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Rooter [234]
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Jeff Davis
Oct 1, 2009, 5:10 PM
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The Judge was the captain of the defense for a team that won the National Championship. No further debate is necessary.
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Amateur [47]
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Re: Jeff Davis
Oct 1, 2009, 5:38 PM
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I love Davis and he and Fuller are 2 of the most IMPORTANT(not best) players ever at Clemson. Davis was an outstanding LB, but there have been several better players at LB for Clemson over the years.
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Tiger Titan [50647]
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A little before my time, but my vote is for Steve Fuller.***
Oct 1, 2009, 5:23 PM
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110%er [3995]
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Woody was the most fun to watch, though.***
Oct 1, 2009, 5:25 PM
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Orange Blooded [2755]
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??
Oct 1, 2009, 5:30 PM
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Why isn't Brain Dawkins on any list?? And where is Fred Cone??
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Amateur [47]
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Terry Kinard and its not close or debatable.
Oct 1, 2009, 5:35 PM
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Kinard is one of the 2 or 3 best safeties in all of college football for all time according to some pundits. No player has played his position better and with a higher sustained level of excellence then Kinard. Consensus All-American 2 years. Inducted into the College Football Hall of Fame.
Now the 2 most important players in Clemson FB history- Steve Fuller and Jeff Davis. Fuller elevated the level of play and success from nowhere and put Clemson FB on the national map. Davis was the key leader in making the championship psychology real for the Clemson program and making 1981 happen.
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Orange Blooded [2755]
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Re: Terry Kinard and its not close or debatable.
Oct 1, 2009, 5:39 PM
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yes it is Brain Dawkins is by far had the better NFL career then Kinard did! Maybe you are right but it is debatable!
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Letterman [190]
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Aficionado [175]
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Re: Best Clemson Football Player Ever?
Oct 1, 2009, 5:39 PM
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Fred Cone!
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Aficionado [175]
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Re: Best Clemson Football Player Ever?
Oct 1, 2009, 5:42 PM
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Bill Mathis running back, punter, played both ways when everyone played both ways! Played NY Titans - Jets.
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Aficionado [175]
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All-TigerNet [14090]
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William The Refrigarator Perry***
Oct 1, 2009, 5:45 PM
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Orange Blooded [3592]
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Alright, I didn't read every response to your question...
Oct 1, 2009, 8:30 PM
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but I did read some of them. Keep in mind I'm old enough to have seen all of these players play....save Banks McFadden.
The obvious ones to me would be Jeff Davis, Perry brothers, Kirkland, Kinard, Fuller, McFadden, etc, etc. They were the guys that took us the highest we have ever been, so they have certainly earned the right to be at the top of that list.
But for pure college football ability, and strictly for numbers and whatnot, I think in a few years(maybe sooner) you'll see this guy lumped in with all those other guys. He may not have won the championships, but he is something special. In my time following Clemson I have never witnessed one player on our team that could completely change the complexion of a game every time he touched the ball.
CJ is my pick. I can't even imagine what this kid could have accomplished with a decent supporting cast
But right there with CJ would have to be Banks McFadden. Neck and neck actually. I give the edge to CJ only because I wasn't born when BF played, and there's no video to make a decent comparison.
Message was edited by tig0606 because he forgot to add the last paragraph
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Legend [6777]
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STEVE FULLER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Oct 1, 2009, 8:41 PM
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Not Even close......
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110%er [7834]
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Wasn't he our only all American QB?***
Oct 1, 2009, 8:56 PM
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All-TigerNet [11894]
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Have to consider Banks McFadden...
Oct 1, 2009, 8:57 PM
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At 6-foot-3 and 165 pounds, McFadden would not get a second look from coaches today. Even then, upon his arrival at Clemson in the fall of 1936, Howard, then an assistant on Jess Neely’s staff, scratched his head.
But the skills that attracted recruiters to the Chester County community of Great Falls and had led the Great Falls Red Devils to one state championship and one runner-up finish emerged — eventually.
The player whom a teammate, the late Walter Cox, called “the finest athlete I have witnessed” played end on the freshman team and was a reserve wingback (in the single-wing formation) his sophomore season. The substitutes scrimmaged against the varsity, and out of one practice, the All-American was born.
“The varsity was killing us, and we started dragging around,” McFadden once said. “Dusty Wiles, who was a senior that year, looked around at us sophomores and told us, ‘You’ve got two choices: keep piddling around like me or get better and make the varsity.’ I made up my mind that very day to get off the scout team.”
Switching positions in the spring of 1938 provided the last piece of the puzzle. McFadden moved to tailback, and Shad Bryant switched to wingback.
“He was terrific at wingback,” McFadden said in a 1983 interview. “He blocked better than I did, and we both found a home.”
Historians like to focus on his offensive exploits, but McFadden was a true triple threat. He set punting records at Clemson that lasted for 40 years, and Howard credited his defensive skills with winning the 1940 Cotton Bowl, the triumph that introduced Clemson to the nation.
“Mac swooped out of the sky like a big bird and knocked down a pass in the end zone,” Howard said in recalling the Tigers’ 6-3 victory against Boston College. He also averaged 44 yards on 11 punts and knocked down four second-half passes.
True to his character, McFadden dodged the accolades and pointed out the rushing of fullback Charlie Timmons. But the people who selected the all-star teams were not fooled; they named Banks McFadden to the All-America team.
http://www.thestate.com/scathletes/story/420990.html
Banks McFadden, Back, 1939: Consensus All-American in both football and basketball in the same calendar year (1939), only Clemson athlete to do that...named the nation's most versatile athlete for 1939-40... Clemson's first wire-service All-American... record setter on the field as a runner, passer, and punter...led Tigers to state championship in track twice in his three years on the team...elected to National Football Hall of Fame in 1959...received Distinguished Alumni Award from Clemson in 1966...charter member of the Clemson Athletic Hall of Fame and South Carolina Athletic Hall of Fame...only Clemson player to have his jersey retired in two sports...the number-three pick of the Brooklyn Dodgers (football) after the 1939 season, that is still the highest draft pick ever by a Clemson player...played one year in the NFL and led the league in yards per rush...coached the defensive backs at Clemson for 26 years, he was also the head basketball coach from 1947-56..Clemson's McFadden Building, dedicated in 1995, is in his honor...retired, now living in Clemson...Charter member of Ring of Honor in Memorial Stadium...named to Clemson's Centennial team in April,1996.
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Orange Blooded [2474]
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Richard Luzzie?***
Oct 1, 2009, 9:08 PM
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110%er [7011]
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Re: Richard Luzzie?***
Oct 1, 2009, 10:00 PM
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Went 108 yds w/punt/Ko return....
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Varsity [104]
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Best? Most dominant?
Oct 1, 2009, 9:41 PM
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Trevor Pryce for the 2 yrs he was here.
Not the most Ws, most heralded, nor received the most accolades.
But for straight up being disruptive and dominant?
He was a MAN among boys.
Brian Dawkins=my favorite of all time
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Paw Master [17831]
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Steve Fuller not because he was the most outstanding.. But
Oct 2, 2009, 1:45 AM
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because he was one of the first big time recruits that set the stage for the successes in 78,79,80, and 81 through the mid 1980's. He helped to put Clemson Football back on the map. He also believe he helped recruiting alot, especially since he played in the NFL when it was much harder to get in. In his time there were not nearly as many teams to play for.
Plus he was a pretty good player too.
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All-Time Great [88521]
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My top 5 and I agree with Kinard as number 1. This is
Oct 2, 2009, 7:33 AM
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only since 1970 and doesn't include OL since there have been too many great ones:
1. Terry Kinard
2. Steve Fuller
3. Anthony Simmons
4. Jerry Butler
5. Chester McGlockton
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Enthusiast [124]
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Terry Allen, Kevin Mack, or Kenny Flowers
Oct 2, 2009, 10:55 AM
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These RBs should also be included in the debate!
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Paw Master [17831]
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Totally agree !!!!!!!!!!!!! 3 awesome RB's***
Oct 3, 2009, 9:52 PM
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Recruit [91]
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McFadden, Cone, Fuller, Davis, Kinard. Done.***
Oct 3, 2009, 9:58 PM
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Asst Coach [820]
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William Perry***
Oct 3, 2009, 9:59 PM
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