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Replies: 34
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All-In [26968]
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Why wouldn't a gay player "come out"?
Apr 29, 2013, 1:40 PM
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Jason Collins, who until a couple of hours ago, was an anonymous NBA journeyman, has now become the object of hero worship. Same will be true for anyone else famous who "comes out" in today's society.
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CU Medallion [56190]
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Nobody is worshipping him.
Apr 29, 2013, 1:42 PM
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But whether you approve or disapprove of homosexuality, you gotta admit it takes courage -- especially for a male athlete -- to be open about it.
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All-In [26968]
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I guess. In today's society, seems like a good way to
Apr 29, 2013, 1:44 PM
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Suddenly become extremely popular. I've wondered recently why people seem to think "coming out" would be detrimental for an athlete. I think the opposite.
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Ring of Honor [32958]
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Given the disdain, condescension, mistrust, and physical
Apr 29, 2013, 1:49 PM
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violence, up to and including death, heaped on people for no reason other they they are gay, I can't figue out why anyone would not want to out one's self.
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All-In [26968]
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According to my observation, those seem to be exceptions
Apr 29, 2013, 1:51 PM
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Rather than the rule, depending of course on your environment. Most parts of the country and most demographic groups seem to me to be very accepting of homosexuality.
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All-In [29037]
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Perhaps
Apr 29, 2013, 1:53 PM
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But when your exceptions are to that degree, I'd think they are exceptions that must be considered before someone comes out.
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All-In [26968]
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I'd think twice about "coming out" if my environment
Apr 29, 2013, 1:54 PM
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Was a conservative Bible Belt community. But most other places, it would generate anything from a shoulder shrug to a celebratory parade.
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All-In [29037]
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I'm not so sure the prejudice is as contained as you think.
Apr 29, 2013, 1:55 PM
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But I have nothing but impressions/opinions to back that up.
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All-In [26968]
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Nor do I.***
Apr 29, 2013, 1:56 PM
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Rock Defender [54]
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Heisman Winner [105735]
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110%er [8142]
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All-In [29037]
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I guess then the question is
Apr 29, 2013, 1:45 PM
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If it would only lead to a positive outcome why haven't players come out earlier? Cause unless you believe there have been no gay players, then you have to ask that question to really understand the situation.
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All-In [26968]
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Well, certainly, those accepting of homosexuality as
Apr 29, 2013, 1:47 PM
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good/normal are only recently a majority, in the grand scheme of things. I expect to see many athletes, including very prominent ones, come out from now on, until eventually it won't be news anymore.
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All-In [29037]
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It would seem to me
Apr 29, 2013, 1:50 PM
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That part of the changing cultural norms on the issue are due to individuals who step forward and out of the closet.
And in each new area there will be new individuals who step forward to be the first openly gay person in "...". Each of those individuals is doing something which does seemingly require some courage.
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Oculus Spirit [78876]
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All-In [26968]
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I disagree, but I guess we can't really know.***
Apr 29, 2013, 1:52 PM
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Oculus Spirit [78876]
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Painting with a broad brush here, but the pro sports
Apr 29, 2013, 1:56 PM
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world is filled with super macho "A" type jocks. A lot of these guys come from inner city, low income/education backgrounds. Never the type to embrace homosexuality.
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All-In [26968]
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Every reaction I see from athletes, aside from the
Apr 29, 2013, 2:00 PM
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Occasional Culliver type, who quickly get in sensitivity training and change their tune, is very positive.
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All-In [29037]
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To be fair,you only see, by definition, the public reactions
Apr 29, 2013, 2:02 PM
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Those will almost always be overwhelmingly positive. It's the closed door reactions, the coded reactions (lockeroom cancer, team distraction, etc), that I'd think are the real issues.
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Oculus Spirit [79454]
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Oculus Spirit [78876]
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I don't know, coaches and players tend to be very very
Apr 29, 2013, 2:06 PM
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candid when asked questions by the sports media. They never speak in ambiguous platitudes and generalizations that don't really answer the question asked.
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Oculus Spirit [79454]
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"THEY ARE WHO WE THOUGHT THEY WERE!!"***
Apr 29, 2013, 2:06 PM
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Oculus Spirit [78876]
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How'd that turn out for him?***
Apr 29, 2013, 2:12 PM
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All-In [28802]
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Heisman Winner [105735]
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You are ignoring the potential consequences of him
Apr 29, 2013, 1:47 PM
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coming out. He could be ostracized by teamates or worse, not signed by another team if they see it as a distraction.
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All-In [26968]
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I don't see that happening.
Apr 29, 2013, 1:49 PM
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For every one Chris Culliver knucklehead type, there are 50 there to shout him down.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Ernest Angley has been calling for them to come out
Apr 29, 2013, 1:48 PM
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for years...
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Oculus Spirit [78876]
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He's been doing it in ernest, you could say.***
Apr 29, 2013, 1:52 PM
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All-In [28802]
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maybe some don't think their sexual desires define them
Apr 29, 2013, 3:25 PM
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I've often wondered how many people there are who might be attracted to people of the same sex who end up marrying someone of the opposite sex and having a conventional life. I'm not sure exactly what I think about the phenomenon of "coming out," but it does seem connected to a very recent need to confess everything about ourselves in order to be "authentic." But does that drive towards authenticity keep us from thinking more deeply about whether some of these so-called identities are social constructions? Are we shunting people into identities that might be impoverishing their comprehensive being?
Anyway, I think that's why some people who are attracted to people of the same sex don't end up coming out in any public way. There just may be other things that are more important to them than the current craze for sexual identity and gender taboo.
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Heisman Winner [105735]
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Your trolls and Prod's trolls are starting to sound similar
Apr 29, 2013, 3:28 PM
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at least I hope yall are trolling. If not, please get your head out of the sand.
Coming out is not a phenomenon and sexual identity is not a current craze.
All the kids are coming out as gay because it is cool.
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All-In [28802]
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not what I was saying
Apr 29, 2013, 3:43 PM
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Unlike prodigal, I don't think there's any kind of incentive to come out, as if less people would be gay or something if it weren't "cool" to come out. I'm just suggesting that people tend to get categorized as one thing or another based on the categories provided them by society, and when those categories are imperfectly socially constructed (or when we mistake the reason for a social construction for a natural category), we get an impoverishment of some people's identities. So, when we have these rigid categories of sexual identity where you've either got to be "gay" or "straight" (I suppose some people identify as "bisexual," although both gays and straights tend to look askance at the bis), and when we're encouraging people to "come out," there are going to be people who never feel the need to "come out" because their identity naturally exceeds the categories they can "come out" to.
I would argue that we do have a craze for a certain kind of sexual identity, one which wasn't present in the past not only becaue of repression and oppression, but because the categories were different. Homosexual behavior was prominent in ancient Greece and Rome, but there isn't really any talk about sexual identity. Perhaps their view of sexuality is an archaic historical artifact, but that shouldn't keep us from holding up our current beliefs about sexuality to the same scrutiny. It might be that the things we believe about sex come from the acceptance of certain ideologies and ways of thinking (mainly 2nd and 3rd wave feminism) which would historicize our thinking.
So what I'm questioning isn't anyone's reasons for coming out, I'm questioning what I see as simplistic notions about sexuality- especially the ones that assume there is a direct connection between sexual desire and a simple sexual identity.
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Heisman Winner [105735]
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Did you give me a TD? Someone did. It hurt so bad too.***
Apr 29, 2013, 3:50 PM
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CU Medallion [56190]
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I think I get what you're saying.
Apr 29, 2013, 3:53 PM
[ in reply to not what I was saying ] |
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You wanna hook up with dudes, but don't want people thinking you're gay. That's cool. I mean, why do we need all these labels anyway? Having a proclivity for gargling furry nut sacks shouldn't hinder a man from entering into marriage with a woman in order to procreate.
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Heisman Winner [105735]
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the use of proclivity and gargling in the same sentence
Apr 29, 2013, 4:01 PM
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makes this the single greatest post in the history of the last 5 minutes. Congratulations!
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Replies: 34
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50
