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All-TigerNet [13190]
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Why do people think NEWSPRING is cultish?
Sep 4, 2013, 11:17 AM
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Consider this reply at PajamaPages (the blog mentioned in the other newspring ost by James Duncan, a professor at Anderson College)
You are truly a psychopath. You claim to be a Christian. I don’t believe it says anywhere in the Bible that you are to spend all your time and energy trying to destroy others. Do you not ever tell anyone about the Gospel? It’s idiots like you who give Christians a bad name and cause nonbelievers to stay far away from church. I attend NewSpring. We are obviously doing God work. Otherise, we would not be experiencing such a strong attack from Satan (James Duncan). God will deal with you for trying to crucify His people. You are a pitiful excuse for a human being. I do have to say, though, the more people who read your blog, the more people find Jesus by way of NewSpring.
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CU Medallion [54759]
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rhetorical kweshun is....rhetorical??***
Sep 4, 2013, 11:19 AM
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All-In [38404]
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Because
Sep 4, 2013, 11:19 AM
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#####.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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I take umbrage to your response
Sep 4, 2013, 11:20 AM
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Pigs aren't loading.
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Rock Defender [54]
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I <3 Jesus T-shirts?
Sep 4, 2013, 11:21 AM
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oh wait..
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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Re: I <3 Jesus T-shirts?
Jul 22, 2021, 1:07 PM
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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Another Gem
Sep 4, 2013, 11:24 AM
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repent jd you have managed to pull so many good people into that pit of misery with you. God reads your heart and i’m pretty sure He is not happy with what He see right now. people that don’t know the saving knowledge and grace of Christ certain wouldn’t want to if they read your blog. this grieves my heart and i know it grieves the heart of God. we are the only example that this lost world may every know. may the meditations of our minds and the thoughts of our hearts be pure in His site not our own. we can make anything seem right.
i don’t normally read your blog and i would bet perry nobel doesn’t either. i would also bet perry had no knowledge of what was going on. ns is a big church. perry nobel can’t oversee every employee. Christ followers are responsible for their own lives and the choices they make daily. my family prays for you today. may you make good choices. we pray for the nobel family daily. may they be protected from people like you. repent and know God’s forgiveness.
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All-In [28802]
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so what's wrong with that?***
Sep 4, 2013, 12:51 PM
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Associate AD [828]
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Anne Lamott quote sums it up pretty nicely:
Sep 4, 2013, 1:52 PM
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"You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do."
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All-In [28802]
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Re: Anne Lamott quote sums it up pretty nicely:
Sep 4, 2013, 2:04 PM
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Which, of course, doesn't mean that when you hate something that you think God hates, you're wrong. Lamott, by the way, is probably commenting on her liberal politics, which might tell you something about why she thinks that conservative Christians supposedly "hate" the people they disagree with politically. Hate, of course, being the liberal slur for any conservative position.
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110%er [6272]
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110%er [7980]
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Because its more about Perry and less about God
Sep 4, 2013, 11:31 AM
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why do all the churches have video feed so they can watch him instead of having their own pastors?
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Heisman Winner [138622]
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He's very charismatic. It's not like Perry Nobles just grow
Sep 4, 2013, 11:32 AM
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on trees. He's the leader of Newspring, with personal security and all. Not cultish in the least.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Rock Defender [54]
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Out?
Sep 4, 2013, 11:54 AM
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On his yacht, helicopter, or Harley?
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All-In [28802]
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a lot of churches do that
Sep 4, 2013, 12:47 PM
[ in reply to Because its more about Perry and less about God ] |
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and just because people go to New Spring because they want to hear Noble preach doesn't mean that it's any less about God if he's preaching the Word. And, based on my experience, that's exactly what he was doing. He often went out of his way to say that if New Spring was just about his preaching and leadership, then it wouldn't have a solid foundation when he left.
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110%er [7980]
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I'm not 100% anti perry
Sep 4, 2013, 12:52 PM
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I went to newspring for awhile in college and didn't have any issues. I think the majority of what he preaches is scripture based. However I think some of his use of scipture is bending it to what he is trying to say.
He has some character flaws that have become worse the bigger the church grows and thus I think it would suit him and the church better to get some local guys to preach instead of broadcasting himself everywhere. It comes off as egotistical and seems like nobody else can do as good a job as him which isn't true and probably not the message he is trying to send.
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All-In [28802]
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Re: I'm not 100% anti perry
Sep 4, 2013, 1:43 PM
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So maybe it isn't "more about Perry and less about God?" Or, if what you really meant is that Noble has "some character flaws," then why not say that instead of feeding into some of the more virulent and ignorant criticism?
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110%er [7980]
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Because Newspring is Perry
Sep 4, 2013, 2:54 PM
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its not God.
He may preach biblical things but he won't get out of the spotlight.
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Heisman Winner [136138]
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I'll tell you EXACTLY why people think it's a cult.
Sep 4, 2013, 11:36 AM
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Because you can show me even one example of a time when Perry Noble or his minions said or did ANYTHING to glorify our grand creator Mothra.
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110%er [7980]
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So we are back to mothra now?***
Sep 4, 2013, 11:37 AM
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Heisman Winner [136138]
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Are you telling me you're an unworthy infidel?
Sep 4, 2013, 11:42 AM
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I WILL DESTROY YOU WITH MY MIND.
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All-In [34842]
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what's sad is Dabo worships him and has him hanging
Sep 4, 2013, 11:39 AM
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around the players...flame away
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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Yea, I don't like that either
Sep 4, 2013, 11:41 AM
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However, I'm a bottom line type of guy. Dabo could have Anton Lavey hanging out with the team and I could care less, as long as the wins keep rolling in.
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Heisman Winner [136138]
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That's absolutely ridiculous, drew.
Sep 4, 2013, 11:45 AM
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Lavey died in 1997. If Dabo had him hanging around the team, we could just worship Dabo and cut out the middle man.
THERE'S YOUR BOTTOM LINE.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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Does Dabo have a personal relationship with Mothra?
Sep 4, 2013, 11:47 AM
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If not, what can we do to change hearts and minds?
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Heisman Winner [136138]
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Maybe I should speak to him about this.
Sep 4, 2013, 11:48 AM
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110%er [9132]
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Rock Defender [54]
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oh deer lowered.
Sep 5, 2013, 8:00 AM
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That scuks.
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110%er [5292]
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I dont think Coach Swinney worships him , ...more like
Sep 4, 2013, 8:43 PM
[ in reply to what's sad is Dabo worships him and has him hanging ] |
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Dabo worships Jesus and recognizes that Pastor Perry is a good influence on his players personal and spiritual development
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Heisman Winner [136138]
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Here's a 'What If' for you....
Sep 6, 2013, 3:05 PM
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What if there is some crazy pagan ritual they perform in secret while wearing robes and wielding golden daggers, and there's lots of blood and small animals, and runaway virgins fresh off the bus from the Midwest, and lots of chanting in ancient languages, but when all is said and done the Tigers keep winning.
I'm OK with that.
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CU Medallion [51583]
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Sounds good to me. Win baby, win.***
Sep 6, 2013, 3:15 PM
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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ALL IN!***
Sep 6, 2013, 3:16 PM
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Hall of Famer [22718]
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Re: Stone casters***
Sep 4, 2013, 11:40 AM
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Heisman Winner [136138]
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FYI...
Sep 4, 2013, 1:58 PM
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Stone casters don't roll as well as the hard plastic ones do.
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All-In [34842]
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Also, Ben Milstead on WCCP is one of the idiot goons
Sep 4, 2013, 11:40 AM
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that harassed the professor
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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Don't listen to WCCP
Sep 4, 2013, 11:42 AM
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However, Duncan does say that Milestead is the only one that took responsibility for being a complete tool bag.
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Oculus Spirit [79606]
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Oculus Spirit [79606]
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Come on Drew...just try it...you'll like it...It's AMAZING***
Sep 4, 2013, 11:52 AM
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Rock Defender [54]
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Have you made it over to the Pit yet?
Sep 4, 2013, 11:53 AM
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I think you'll like it over there.
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Oculus Spirit [79606]
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Oh, I've been lurking...Needs some more traffic***
Sep 4, 2013, 11:58 AM
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Rock Defender [54]
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Agreed. I will say that the entertainment provided by
Sep 4, 2013, 12:00 PM
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ns4life and leftyjackwood make it very worthwhile.
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Oculus Spirit [79606]
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I think the potential on a pro-newspring website is even
Sep 4, 2013, 12:02 PM
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greater. Doesn't get fun until people start yelling back at you.
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Heisman Winner [136138]
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^^^THIS^^^***
Sep 4, 2013, 1:59 PM
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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Heisman Winner [136138]
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That same thing happened to me once too!!!
Sep 4, 2013, 11:58 AM
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I've never in my life been so freaked out taking an exam, and I promised myself if I ever got through that one that I would never, EVER take another one sober again.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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Hold up now
Sep 4, 2013, 12:02 PM
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People take exams sober? How do they hold their pencils when their hands are shaking?
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Oculus Spirit [79606]
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xanax bars....wait...***
Sep 4, 2013, 12:04 PM
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Oculus Spirit [75970]
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Some of my Charleston people talk about Joel Osteen
Sep 4, 2013, 12:10 PM
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a little too much. Biggest problem is I know how half of them behave 98% of the time, the have less business gospeling to folks than I do.
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All-In [28802]
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Osteen is a different story
Sep 6, 2013, 1:59 PM
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Prosperity gospel is a dangerous heresy.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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This we can agree on
Sep 6, 2013, 2:11 PM
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I wonder what level of hell those prosperity preachers reside on. I hope they have their own special corner.
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All-TigerNet [11963]
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I met 4 ex-Newspringer at church this weekend
Sep 4, 2013, 12:14 PM
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I asked them all if they had to be 'beaten out' like it was gang. Seriously, they all started there as young teenagers/young adults and they each said that they left before of $...They always felt pressure to give $..that no amount of time/effort/service would make Newspring happy.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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Well, Jesus needs cash to survive, no credit accepted
Sep 4, 2013, 12:16 PM
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Open your hearts and open your wallets to the word of the LORD!
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Legend [17753]
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Re: Well, Jesus needs cash to survive, no credit accepted
Sep 4, 2013, 12:22 PM
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Now there are some preachers on T.V. with a suit and a tie and a vest
They want you to send your money to the Lord but they give you Their address
'cause all of your donations are completely tax free
God bless you all but most of all send your money
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Oculus Spirit [75970]
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Oculus Spirit [79606]
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All-In [28802]
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All-In [28802]
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so... why is that cultish?
Sep 4, 2013, 12:45 PM
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While I wouldn't have said that as strongly, I have been saying just about the same thing about the people who just seem to want there to be something bad about New Spring.
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All-TigerNet [12066]
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Sounds like you have been brainwashed***
Sep 4, 2013, 12:46 PM
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All-In [28802]
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apparently that's what it means if you don't join...
Sep 4, 2013, 12:50 PM
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the witch hunt. Very similar to the mob mentality of the people who went after the Anderson professor.
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Heisman Winner [136138]
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I'm going to stop you right there, Sport.
Sep 4, 2013, 2:01 PM
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Witch season doesn't open in South Carolina until late January. You can, however,,use a crossbow to hunt them this year. Still cannot bait them though.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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Duncan is a Christian with a different point of view
Sep 4, 2013, 12:48 PM
[ in reply to so... why is that cultish? ] |
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Therefore he is against us, is Satan, and will be suffer the wrath of God. No, that doesn't sound like a cult at all.
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All-In [28802]
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that isn't all, though...
Sep 4, 2013, 1:02 PM
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he's someone who was trying to tear down somebody else's ministry because he disliked their worship style- not for any substantive difference in theology. I would say that people who make it their personal mission to attack other Christians when all that's really at stake is their "different point of view" are doing Satan's work, and they probably will be subject to God's wrath.
Now, to non- Christians, I can see how that sounds awfully harsh, but really it's pretty banal. We are all subject to temptation in different ways, and if we give in to that temptation we may fall under Satan's influence.
One of the worst things, as Christians, we can do is to make our point of view an idol, and then to set that idol up against Christ's church. This kind of squabbling, I think, is one of the major reasons for unbelievers' distrust of the church, and this thing with the Anderson professor is a perfect case in point. He seems to have had some sort of an obsession with Perry Noble, and some members of New Spring became equally obsessed with the professor to the point that they harassed him. Both probably managed to turn people away from Christ and his church.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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So, if you say
Sep 4, 2013, 1:05 PM
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I don't think what this high profile preacher is doing meets my definition of Christianity, that's a bad thing and you're working for Satan?
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All-In [28802]
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I would say most criticism...
Sep 4, 2013, 1:57 PM
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of megachurch pastors falls into the squabbling about minor theological and liturgical points category rather than the major theological issues category. Evangelical churches are united around orthodox creeds to the point where the only thing they really seem to disagree about at this point is how that message should be preached. To be sure, this is important, but to say that someone who doesn't practice your preferred style isn't preaching Christianity is the definition of phariseeism.
Let's be clear though: just thinking that or privately presenting that to the primary target of your criticism doesn't mean you're "working for Satan." But when you make that criticism public, you're no longer "juss sayin," you're trying to convince other people; when we talk about the way God ought to be worshipped, and when we criticize the way others worship God, we're talking about Christ's church. And if our criticism just turns out to be about our personal preferences, or about some minor point of disagreement on liturgy, then I think we're attacking Christ's church for our own aggrandizement.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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Ahh, so when you speak up then you're working for Satan
Sep 4, 2013, 2:24 PM
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I will say this, and I might be working for Satan, but just because someone preaches the word doesn't mean he isn't a con artist at the same time. I have no doubt the Noble preaches from the bible, and I also have no doubt that he is a con artist using his preaching for his own financial means and not for the good of Christianity.
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All-In [28802]
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honestly...
Sep 4, 2013, 6:14 PM
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I think you need to pray about your attitude. Unless you have some kind of proof, it just sounds like you're looking for some way to talk New Spring and Perry Noble down.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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Honestly
Sep 4, 2013, 6:28 PM
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My attitude toward mega churches will never change. I find them repugnant.
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Orange Blooded [2247]
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Re: Dude, he wrote a BLOG
Sep 4, 2013, 1:06 PM
[ in reply to that isn't all, though... ] |
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He was not standing outside picketing Newspring. He wasn't on the news talking bad of Newspring, he wrote a blog. That is NOT tearing down a ministry.
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Oculus Spirit [75970]
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Christians don't like to get a long. Just look at
Sep 4, 2013, 1:09 PM
[ in reply to that isn't all, though... ] |
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the number of Baptist churches. Even small towns have a lot.
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All-In [28802]
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a critique like this is far more appropriate...
Sep 4, 2013, 1:18 PM
[ in reply to that isn't all, though... ] |
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http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/kevindeyoung/2011/10/19/listening-to-and-questioning-the-seeker-church/
Note that what DeYoung seems to care about is the preaching of the Gospel, not about his own personal views about how church should be. He also keeps the focus on a rigorously orthodox theology, rather than letting his critique of "seeker friendly" churches like New Spring turn into a personal attack.
And, I'd also point out, that if you think somebody like John Piper would let a "cult leader" speak at a conference you were reading, then you probably don't know much about John Piper.
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All-In [28802]
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actually, if you want some serious criticism of Noble...
Sep 4, 2013, 1:41 PM
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by people who care more about the Gospel than about advancing whatever it is that they think, just go to that website and search his name. I think you'll find some very thoughtful things said about the whole "seeker friendly" church thing, but you'll also find that these people (who don't do church like Noble does) also aren't interested in questioning his convictions or his devotion to Christ.
How different, how much more loving, is that than the people who immediately want to call megachurches "cults" or who feel the need to parse every sermon?
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Oculus Spirit [79606]
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You can write page upon page in defense of Newspring...
Sep 4, 2013, 1:53 PM
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That still doesn't change the fact that many of it's members act in a very reminiscent manner to those of past cult members.
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All-In [28802]
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fine...
Sep 4, 2013, 1:59 PM
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maybe they do, but that doesn't make it a cult, nor does it warrant some of the criticisms of New Spring's theology or its liturgy.
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Oculus Spirit [79606]
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I have no idea about the theology, etc.
Sep 4, 2013, 2:05 PM
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My point is just this: From an outsiders perspective and from talking to Newspring members, many of the present members seem to have some sort of unhealthy obsession with the church and pastor. Not to mention all of this Harley giveaway stuff, purchasing high dollar property, etc. points to a money scheme in many peoples eyes. Perry Noble probably does believe in god, but it seems pretty apparent he believes in lots of money, too.
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Oculus Spirit [82043]
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It's cultish because it focuses more on Perry Noble, the
Sep 4, 2013, 1:11 PM
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church, attendance numbers, and number of people "saved" (just people who come up to their altar) than they do about actually teaching the Bible.
A church should focus more on its community and teaching IMO. That's why it is cultish.
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All-In [28802]
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that just isn't true
Sep 4, 2013, 1:49 PM
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although it's a stereotype of the "seeker friendly" church. To be sure, it's something that those churches should be careful of, but just because their attendance numbers keep going up and more people are getting "saved" doesn't mean they don't teach the Bible. In fact, they do teach the Bible, but they teach it in a way that's accessible to visitors and people who don't know much about the Bible. This is why, I think, some of the teaching that goes on at "seeker friendly" churches doesn't seem as "deep" as the teaching at more traditional churches.
I would just caution folks on both the "seeker friendly" and the traditional side to be gracious, to recognize that we're brothers in Christ, and to recognize that what ultimately matters is the Gospel not the style of preaching. There is a certain theology that is more prescriptive of liturgy, but that's not evangelical theology, and that point of theology is one that we can only talk about if we agree on the Gospel first. New Spring's basic theology is no different than the theology you'll find at any evangelical church, so I reserve my judgment on their style lest I say more about me than about God.
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Oculus Spirit [79606]
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How do you know? You said you haven't been in 6 years or so***
Sep 4, 2013, 1:53 PM
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Rock Defender [54]
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Cam, they have a church in North Anderson.
Sep 4, 2013, 2:21 PM
[ in reply to that just isn't true ] |
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They have a branch at the TD Center in Downtown greenville.
Probably about a 35 minutes drive between them.
They are putting up a new location in Powdersville. A 15-20 minute drive, directly in between these two locations...for the EXACT SAME CONTENT.
Did they put up a campus in city-view? Berea? Any other non-affluent, ghetto site within 15 minutes drive?
NO. They put it in powdersville where there is plenty of money.
You can't tell me Christ would do that. Somebody comfortable in his subdivision doesn't know he needs a Savior, and can save himself.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Brah you didn't even Columbia or Charleston
Sep 4, 2013, 2:23 PM
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and we all know Christ DEFINITELY wounldn't be wasting his time in Columbia. Charleston I understand (beaches, etc.).
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All-In [28802]
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Rock Defender [54]
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You can read all this about NS...and
Sep 5, 2013, 9:03 AM
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*I'm* the one not healthy?
Perhaps if you lived here anymore you could comment, but I don't know that you can comprehend what NS has done to churches around here.
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Associate AD [828]
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My view and ?s of NewSpring/Elevation type
Sep 4, 2013, 2:35 PM
[ in reply to It's cultish because it focuses more on Perry Noble, the ] |
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of churches.
Seeker-friendly churches like NewSpring and Elevation have one goal: bring people outside the church into the church.
I'm not a 100% hater because I see where they fit their niche. NewSpring and Elevation are not my type of churches. I would not be a member for several reasons. The top 3 are:
1 - It's all about the numbers
Noble and Furtick only focus on preaching and marketing. Both have said in sermons that they do not do discipleship or education (teaching members), pastoral care (making visits to the sick). Neither one accepts baptistisms from other traditions (Presbyterian, Catholic).
In short they are all about breadth, not depth.
I'm okay with people joining Newspring and Elevation if they soon "graduate" to a local church that provides more spiritual and theological depth.
2 - Corporate Structure
I'm not sure about NewSpring but Elevation (same model) is not governed by its members (session, deacons) but by a Board of outsiders. The outsiders are usually buds with the pastor. At one time Noble was on the Elevation's Board. As far as I know, their budget is presented at a high-level overview. Is the line-item budget and expenses available to anyone who asks? Is it handed out to members during congregational meetings? Do members have any say in church business and finances?
Who has the authority to correct or dismiss Noble or Furtick?
From 2011:
The last question was “Who serves on the Board of Overseers of Elevation Church. The answer to this question was “The current Board of Overseers is comprised of Pastor Dino Rizzo (Healing Place Church- Baton Rough, LA), Dr. Jack Graham (Prestonwood Baptist Church- Plano, TX), Pastor Perry Noble (Newspring Church- Anderson, SC), Pastor Kevin Gerald (Champions Centre- Seattle, WA) and Pastor Stovall Weems (Celebration Church- Jacksonville, FL). Pastor Furtick also serves on the Board, but does not vote on his salary”.
3 - Both pastors are narcissistic. Both think that being mad is cool? Hate the haters, right?
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Rock Defender [54]
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Bring outside people in?
Sep 4, 2013, 2:40 PM
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I bet there is upwards of 80% of their congregation is from another church.
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Associate AD [828]
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True! Then re-baptise them in the name of Perry***
Sep 4, 2013, 2:44 PM
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All-In [28802]
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my guess is...
Sep 4, 2013, 6:09 PM
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like any other church with evangelical theology, they accept baptisms of believers by immersion, but they don't accept baptisms of babies or Catholic baptisms. That's only because those baptisms can't mean the same thing that baptism of a believer, through immersion, would mean.
Honestly, I don't know what your problem with that is. I wouldn't expect the Catholic Church or another church with a different view of baptism not to re- baptize a Baptist.
Again, nearly all of the criticisms you guys are bringing of New Spring sound either ignorant or just from very fault- finding place. Check your motivations and ask yourself whether it isn't more important to give your life to ministry than it is to do church the way you think it ought to be done.
Message was edited by: camcgee®
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Rock Defender [54]
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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Collection plate, NS has a collection pile
Sep 4, 2013, 2:50 PM
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Associate AD [828]
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Googled and found Reason #4: Children Not Allowed
Sep 4, 2013, 3:28 PM
[ in reply to My view and ?s of NewSpring/Elevation type ] |
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Holy Cow!
Children 5th grade and younger can't go to the worship service! That is so theologically wrong on so many levels.
Mark 10:13-14
http://www.christianpost.com/news/church-disruptions-should-children-be-allowed-into-main-hall-55404/
"NewSpring staffers say children are not allowed in the worship service because the worship service material is above their heads."
Shouldn't that be the parents' decision?
I would want to participate in worship WITH my children; not send them away. This creates another question: Why would I want to listen to a sermon that was inappropriate for my 5th grader?
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All-TigerNet [14289]
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This is a red flag to me too.
Sep 4, 2013, 3:30 PM
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I have other opinions, but I don't think I need to post them.
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Legend [18033]
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Pretty much all religion is is a cult with more power....
Sep 4, 2013, 3:16 PM
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only difference between a cult and religion is that a religion has gained enough influence, power, acceptance and members that it no longer seems weird or scary because it is the main ideology of a society. That's the only difference. I'm always amazed at the dissonance displayed when everyone is afraid of cults but not religion when the only difference between the two is scale.
To really take this to the extreme, imagine if Jonestown or those comet people back in the 90s had billions of members and enough power/influence to be considered a religion. Now imagine billions of people killing themselves all at once. That's the power and danger of cults and religions. If you want a christian parallel then think Rapture, a made-up belief system that smacks of "cultish" ideology.
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All-TigerNet [10188]
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Re: Pretty much all religion is is a cult with more power....
Sep 4, 2013, 8:11 PM
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BS,hth
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Ring of Honor [32958]
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All-TigerNet [12066]
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All-TigerNet [10188]
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Ring of Honor [32958]
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Dictators?***
Sep 6, 2013, 8:46 AM
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All-TigerNet [10188]
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Re: Dictators?***
Sep 6, 2013, 9:47 AM
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Exactly, marxist and atheist!
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Orange Blooded [3677]
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freaky***
Sep 4, 2013, 8:06 PM
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Oculus Spirit [94326]
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Challenge yourself to reason this through please.
Sep 6, 2013, 7:41 AM
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What makes anyone think the reply was written by someone who attends NS Church? Of all people T-Netter should know that posers and scoks are a dime a dozen and come here presenting themselves as a fan of one school to damage our University reputation, it's sports program and fans.
I have a few of questions for Christians.
Does or has James Duncan publically attack NS Church?
Does James Duncan really claim to be a Christian?
Has NS Church damaged this man by attacking him in public or from the pulpit?
Would you participate in a conflict with a church (group of Christians) that claims to be attempting to obey God?
If you are not a Christian perhaps you might try using your relationships with members of your immediate family as a frame of referrence to understand how The Bible expects Christians to treat each other.
Hey Christians we are all in this together. There are divisions among us because we are babes in Christ. Some of us can't handle the meat and shouldn't expect folks without digestive systems to handle spiritual nutrition.
Hand me another snake Rev!
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CU Medallion [51583]
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You say cult like it's a bad thing.***
Sep 6, 2013, 3:17 PM
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