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All-In [27232]
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CU Medallion [73569]
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Key word, Skilled
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Aug 7, 2023, 1:15 PM
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Not blanket
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All-In [27232]
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That seems like a fine starting point on immigration reform
Aug 7, 2023, 1:17 PM
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negotiations.
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CU Medallion [73569]
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Unless Dems agree to actually, you know
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Aug 7, 2023, 1:20 PM
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Stop illegals coming over the border, any reform is just bs
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All-In [27232]
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Unless you believe immigration reform is a far more
Aug 7, 2023, 1:26 PM
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effective weapon against illegal immigration than an easily penetrable border wall. Or, at the very least, something to pursue in tandem.
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Lot o points [156093]
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Immigration enforcement seems more accurate than reform.
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Aug 7, 2023, 2:00 PM
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Sure some tweaks here and there are needed to account for labor demands, etc, but enforcement of current laws, particularly against those who hire illegals, is the real opportunity for improvement.
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All-In [27232]
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Without immigration reform, you're not fixing illegal
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Aug 7, 2023, 2:02 PM
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immigration at its source. You can't do one without the other, and that's where both parties make their mistake. Democrats want reform without enforcement. Republicans want enforcement without reform.
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Lot o points [156093]
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It’s illegal to come here now. It’s a lot nicer here
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Aug 7, 2023, 2:12 PM
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Than where they are coming from. We can’t make it triple dog illegal and we can’t make the US crappier than Guatemala, the the desire to ignore our laws will always remain. IMO the only option is to curb demand for their services by hitting illegal employers incredibly, expensively hard.
If you come here and it’s harder to put rice and beans on the table than in Honduras, word will travel fast.
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All-In [27232]
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Yes, try to make it crippling difficult to fill cheap/hard
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Aug 7, 2023, 2:15 PM
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labor positions without providing a legal pathway to fill them. You can't do one without the other.
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Lot o points [156093]
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Adjusting annual skilled and unskilled work visa
Aug 7, 2023, 2:40 PM
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Numbers would be one of the “tweaks” I mentioned above, but we are at 11 million in the country with almost two million more trying to cross annually. There’s no reform that solves that unless the desirability of the US as a place to illegally relocate diminishes greatly. In simplest possible terms, we have no problem with the supply of illegals, we simply have to decrease demand.
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110%er [7167]
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Re: Unless you believe immigration reform is a far more
Aug 7, 2023, 10:11 PM
[ in reply to Unless you believe immigration reform is a far more ] |
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It is specious to suggest that an immigration policy and border security are one and the same.
They are not.
Want to fix the collusive scam between politicians -&- meat packers, chicken processors, fruit growers, and hospitality industry? Close the border.
That will force an open and (somewhat) truthful dialogue + subsequent policy to take place. It will also give America’s legal citizen under-middle-class demographic the opportunity to have a REAL seat at the labor laws / labor compensation / jobs availability table.
Both the Democrat party (which depends upon black voters staying u employed and beholden to Democrat party because of handouts) -&- Republicans (plus the growing number of crony capitalist Democrats) who get big campaign money from the aforementioned industries will HATE this dialogue.
(*). Any policy or activity that both Democrats and Republicans HATE is good with me.
Xxxxxxx
Legal immigration for high tech? Like it or not, the USA needs these LEGAL immigrants. America’s colleges and universities have betrayed their students and the country by softening grading standards for STEM students. Hardly any kids flunk out anymore. This sounds great … except that grading standards have declined. Foreign STEM graduates don’t typically ‘enjoy’ a slack STEM education.
We as a country have screwed the kids and our ability to be self sufficient to satisfy STEM type jobs. Immigration and attractive paths to citizenship have become a necessity whether we like it or not.
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Legend [17345]
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What skills are prerequisite for labor shortages ….
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Aug 7, 2023, 1:27 PM
[ in reply to Key word, Skilled ] |
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In the agricultural, hospitality, construction, transportation and manufacturing sectors?
Perhaps the Chamber of Commerce should be consulted?
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All-In [27232]
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IDK man. I prefer my construction costs astronomical and
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Aug 7, 2023, 1:29 PM
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completed by good white laborers who don't exist.
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Lot o points [156093]
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They don’t exist because
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Aug 7, 2023, 1:34 PM
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The influx and availability of cheap illegal labor has artificially stagnated wage growth in those labor markets, making them unattractive to almost anyone except illegals.
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All-In [27232]
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I think that's what I just said.***
Aug 7, 2023, 1:35 PM
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Lot o points [156093]
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Sort of
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Aug 7, 2023, 2:04 PM
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Take illegal labor out of the equation for the past 25 years, and everything would cost more, but every job would pay more as well. As such, the costs would seem normal to you because you’d be making more too. It wouldn’t be astronomical to you.
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All-In [27232]
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Labor costs are dead weight.
Aug 7, 2023, 2:08 PM
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Unless you're in a union or a type of person that will take two items to a balls-deep line at the grocery store instead of self-checkout just to keep that cashier "employed," it makes little economic sense to pay higher wages for an equal output you can get done for cheaper -- with few exceptions.
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Lot o points [156093]
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Now you’re saying what I’m saying.
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Aug 7, 2023, 2:16 PM
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If the option to pay less isn’t there, wages have no choice but to go up.
It’s always humored me that a lot of the “mandatory $18 minimum wage” crowd are also very pro-illegal immigrant, not realizing that absent the artificially low wage floor created by illegals, the market would have likely dictated a much higher effective minimum wage rate than we currently have.
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All-In [27232]
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Not really.
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Aug 7, 2023, 2:20 PM
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You seem to be saying its good policy for the government to throttle the cheap labor market in order to keep wages higher. I'm saying it's good government policy to keep the flow of cheap labor going because it drives down costs for goods/services in which quality of output is equal whether you pay $10/hr. or $18/hr. Perhaps you ascribe a moral value to the degree to which said government policy (immigration laws) restrict this labor flow, but I see the greater public good in providing these services as cheaply as possible.
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Hall of Famer [24852]
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"Quality of output" ISN'T necessarily "equal". I've seen it
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Aug 7, 2023, 3:16 PM
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over the last 30 years as far as the homebuilding industry.
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110%er [7231]
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Lot o points [156093]
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It’s called inflation and it’s not the gotcha you think it
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Aug 7, 2023, 2:44 PM
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Is. Between QE and bastardizing the labor market with dirt cheap illegal labor, we didn’t experience normalized inflation nor real wage growth for over two decades. It’s a big reason why letting the genie out of the bottle as quickly as we have has made it so painful.
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All-In [27232]
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"bastardizing the labor market with dirt cheap ilegal labor"
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Aug 7, 2023, 2:47 PM
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You keep saying this like it is a bad thing.
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Lot o points [156093]
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In a true free market, it’s not.
Aug 7, 2023, 2:58 PM
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Stepping out for a few hours but glad to discuss this more later tonight. There are multiple extraneous govt interventions into this market to make it as simple as “cheap townhomes/landscaping/produce = illegal immigration good”
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Lot o points [156093]
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I can't find anywhere that he said "unlimited" other than
Aug 7, 2023, 1:25 PM
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this guy saying he did on Twitter.
What I see from his conversation with Musk who right before this comment said we needed more skilled migration, Vivek responded, "I agree with that. I actually fully agree with that. And that’s one of the things where I think the Republican Party needs to define where we actually stand. There is an anti-legal immigration current [mood among voters] … I’m going to be on the debate stage in a month, and if anybody has any qualms with this, I think I’m gonna have a real problem with that because merit-based immigration is one of the fixes to economic growth in this country."
I agree we need a ton more skilled legal migrants and a ton less illegal migrants, and I think most do.
Maybe he said "unlimited" but I'd sure like to see the actual quote.
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All-In [27232]
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If anything, it would only improve this comment.***
Aug 7, 2023, 1:27 PM
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110%er [9060]
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Re: Credit to Vivek on touching a populist third rail.
Aug 7, 2023, 1:35 PM
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see ya vtech, we barely knew you
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Orange Blooded [4814]
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Re: Credit to Vivek on touching a populist third rail.
Aug 7, 2023, 1:42 PM
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Nobody is against legally bringing in as many skilled laborers as we need. When someone fails to understand the difference between that and millions of mostly unskilled laborers illegally entering the country one can only surmise you are dealing with an idiot.
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Orange Blooded [3227]
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Re: Credit to Vivek on touching a populist third rail.
Aug 7, 2023, 1:50 PM
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They are maids, landscape workers, work on farms, meat processing plants, labor on construction sites that isnt skilled, etc.
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All-In [27232]
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Kinda shocking how many idiots will complain about slow
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Aug 7, 2023, 1:53 PM
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service in restaurants or not having early check-in because their room isn't ready, but won't make the connection to "unskilled" immigration.
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Orange Blooded [4023]
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110%er [9060]
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Re: Credit to Vivek on touching a populist third rail.
Aug 7, 2023, 2:00 PM
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anyone who votes democrat is a skilled laborer
see how easy it is to define skilled labor
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All-In [42298]
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Unfortunately for him...
Aug 7, 2023, 2:17 PM
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Yeah, that Trump disease of MAGAism plays far more into hating foreigners. Good talking for a general election but won't bode well in the primary.
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Hall of Famer [24852]
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T-Rump has often stated he supports LEGAL immigration.
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Aug 7, 2023, 3:24 PM
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It's easier for people to just lie about it and "MAGA, MAGA, MAGA!!!"
As an aside, I think Vivek will be T-Rump's VP...
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110%er [9060]
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Re: T-Rump has often stated he supports LEGAL immigration.
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Aug 7, 2023, 5:13 PM
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sarah
huckabee
sanders
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Hall of Famer [24852]
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Interesting possibility as far as demographics...***
Aug 7, 2023, 8:17 PM
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110%er [7231]
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110%er [5708]
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Re: Credit to Vivek on touching a populist third rail.
Aug 7, 2023, 4:24 PM
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It is not that easy to build a company and the socialists are making it harder every day.
Remember what HRC said...Mr. Businessowner thinks he built his business on blood, sweat, and tears, but, alas, taxpayers for the roads so Mr. Businessowner owes it all to the gubment.
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Legend [16264]
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Immigration policy is a tough call, and hard to know
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Aug 7, 2023, 9:28 PM
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whether what makes the most sense short and long term, while you're debating and deciding it, is the right call down the road.
It's a balancing act. We need some of both skilled and unskilled regularly to stay healthy and at top gear. There's going to be demand for the near to longer term future across the board. Below 4% unemployment, that lot is costing owners 2x on average in lost productivity. The next 1% is under break even, but you gotta have someone in the chair. Our fastest growing age group is 65+, well over the youth pace.
Congress has been kicking this down the road for decades, leaving it up to the executive side and courts to sort it out between election cycles. If we could manage to turn the cameras off in some committee hearings and spend that time on substance versus show on the issue, we might could mostly get along with it.
Go Amerigo!
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