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Tiger Titan [49758]
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Why is it insane for grown people to believe in Santa Clause
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Dec 2, 2024, 8:27 AM
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but not crazy for adults to believe in God?
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [103494]
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Because if grownups believe in Santa Claus, their kids won't get any presents
Dec 2, 2024, 8:28 AM
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If people believe in God, they will still get presents, from someone who doesn't believe in Santa Claus.
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Gridiron Giant [16038]
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I think most reasonable people believe in God.
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Dec 2, 2024, 8:52 AM
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Believing that the universe just magically appeared without being created seems like a massive stretch and equivalent to believing in Santa Claus.
Just my opinion.
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Clemson Conqueror [12088]
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Re: I think most reasonable people believe in God.
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Dec 2, 2024, 9:20 AM
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Yes, but created by a God that you can speak with etc etc? We made up God and relhgion to explain what confused us.
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Gridiron Giant [16038]
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The post I responded to insinuated believing in God was equal to
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Dec 2, 2024, 10:24 AM
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believing in Santa. I think believing there is not a God would be equal to believing in Santa.
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Clemson Conqueror [12088]
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Re: The post I responded to insinuated believing in God was equal to
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Dec 2, 2024, 11:11 AM
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Not really. God defined and saying you know what God is, what God wants etc etc etc, is the same as believing in Santa.
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Heisman Winner [86895]
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TigerNet Champion [118181]
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one would have to pretty argogant
Dec 2, 2024, 9:25 PM
[ in reply to I think most reasonable people believe in God. ] |
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to believe they can point their finger at the origins of the universe, especially when its only mention is in a collection of Bronze Age texts.
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Solid Orange [1387]
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Re: Why is it insane for grown people to believe in Santa Clause
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Dec 2, 2024, 8:54 AM
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but not crazy for adults to believe in God?
Because their is a God and his son died on the Cross.
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Game Day Hero [4257]
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Re: Why is it insane for grown people to believe in Santa Clause
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Dec 2, 2024, 8:55 AM
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Amen.
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Clemson Conqueror [12088]
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All-In [11028]
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Re: Why is it insane for grown people to believe in Santa Clause
Dec 2, 2024, 9:00 AM
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"and none of the wicked shall understand"
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Game Day Hero [4257]
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Re: Why is it insane for grown people to believe in Santa Clause
Dec 2, 2024, 9:03 AM
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“but those who are wise will understand”
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Orange Immortal [62225]
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Because we know for a fact that Santa is made up.
Dec 2, 2024, 9:18 AM
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We don't know that about God.
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Tiger Titan [49758]
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St. Nicolaus was a person that lived and died.
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Dec 2, 2024, 9:25 AM
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Same for Jesus
Most people don't try to say that St. Nicolaus returned from the dead and then make a whole religion around it
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Solid Orange [1387]
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Re: St. Nicolaus was a person that lived and died.
Dec 2, 2024, 9:30 AM
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Same for Jesus
Most people don't try to say that St. Nicolaus returned from the dead and then make a whole religion around it
Plenty of historical information that there was Jesus and that he died on the Cross. As much information was recorded about him as was Adolf Hitler.
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Tiger Titan [49758]
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Yes. That's what I said. Jesus was a person who lived and died
Dec 2, 2024, 9:38 AM
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But unlike "santa" a whole religion is based on a few followers saying Jesus came back to life and disappeared into the air.
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Solid Orange [1387]
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Re: Yes. That's what I said. Jesus was a person who lived and died
Dec 2, 2024, 9:40 AM
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But unlike "santa" a whole religion is based on a few followers saying Jesus came back to life and disappeared into the air.
You do not believe, you never will probably. Their are close to ten thousand people who saw Jesus after his death. I am not saying anymore and I pray that you find the Lord.
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Tiger Titan [49758]
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Link to the 10,000 people?
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Dec 2, 2024, 9:59 AM
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and I used to. I was a youth pastor for years.
Then I actually read the Bible
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Game Day Hero [4257]
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Re: Link to the 10,000 people?
Dec 2, 2024, 12:07 PM
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Now I’m curious and I promise I’m not here to argue. What made you turn away? You said you were a youth pastor and “then you read the Bible”. Does that mean you only read the Bible after you were a youth pastor? What made you turn to atheism?
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Campus Hero [13336]
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The resurrection
Dec 2, 2024, 4:18 PM
[ in reply to Yes. That's what I said. Jesus was a person who lived and died ] |
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is the central point of Christianity, and of history according to Christianity.
If Jesus was raised from the dead, Christianity is true.
The disciples scattered in terror before they saw Jesus crucified. After they saw Jesus resurrected, they preached the resurrection until they were all martyred, except John, who died in exile.
What changed?
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Game Day Hero [4257]
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Re: The resurrection
Dec 2, 2024, 4:55 PM
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This is what has always clinched it for me. As you said , the disciples were all killed after decades of hardships spreading the gospel. Heck, even the one who substituted for Judas was martyred. People might spread a hoax if there is some return for them. But they definitely would not spread a hoax for decades and then die for it. Human nature says not a chance. So, as you asked what changed? They saw a risen Christ and were then transformed from cowards to men ready to charge hell with a water pistol.
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Tiger Titan [46479]
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The evidence of their existence is specious.
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Dec 2, 2024, 8:43 PM
[ in reply to The resurrection ] |
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And you don’t adhere to anything else in the Gospels, so I wouldn’t hang on to that.
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Game Day Hero [4257]
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Re: The evidence of their existence is specious.
Dec 2, 2024, 8:58 PM
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Clarify?
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Tiger Titan [46479]
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Re: The evidence of their existence is specious.
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Dec 3, 2024, 8:24 AM
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We can't use the Bible as evidence of their existence because it's not a reliable source
Please note I'm not arguing that they didn't exist; I'm pointing out that it's questionable. When reading Christian scholar arguments that they existed, it's a continuous reference back to the Bible and conjecture.
Our best evidence that SOME of them existed are through the writings of Paul, who said he met them. There seems to be evidence that some of them were real people but we don't know for sure on the others.
Locking down their supposed fates is a problem as well. Most claims are at that all but one died a martyr... yet the stories and what actually happened continuously conflict with each other. Therefore, it's difficult to put much stock in any of them.
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Game Day Hero [4257]
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Re: The evidence of their existence is specious.
Dec 3, 2024, 8:36 AM
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I can’t imagine why the Bible would be less evident of the existence of the disciples. Obviously I’ve heard atheists argue the existence of God ,etc but I’m not sure I’ve heard any deny the existence of the disciples as historical people. Maybe they do. I’m just saying that’s a new angle to me.
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Paw Warrior [4759]
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Re: The evidence of their existence is specious.
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Dec 3, 2024, 8:45 AM
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Tiger Titan [46479]
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I'm sorry, man, but the Bible can't be used as historical evidence
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Dec 3, 2024, 10:17 AM
[ in reply to Re: The evidence of their existence is specious. ] |
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There are too many conflicting version of similar events and too many fantastical myths, many of which were copied from other religions.
Again, I'm not arguing they didn't exist and I don't know that anyone else is either, but there are valid and serious questions/discrepancies that bring their existence into question. It's more of a solid "maybe" than a definitive fact. If it were unquestionable fact, the stories, details, and accounts would align.
And if the Bible is to be used as a historical reference, it's time to start doing some serious editing on stories with talking serpents, illogical flood/boat stories that were lifted from other tales, conflicting gospel reports, and cities that didn't exist.
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Game Day Hero [4257]
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Re: I'm sorry, man, but the Bible can't be used as historical evidence
Dec 3, 2024, 10:24 AM
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Are you saying there are conflicting stories within the gospels? About the death and resurrection? Which accounts conflict?
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Tiger Titan [46479]
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We could just focus on the resurrection
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Dec 3, 2024, 10:38 AM
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There are conflicting details, including when Jesus ascended. Even one of the gospels had information about the ascension added many, many years later.
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Campus Hero [13336]
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Tiger Titan [46479]
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Maybe consult the Gospels for advice
Dec 3, 2024, 7:48 AM
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And actually adhere to Jesus's word.
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Paw Warrior [4759]
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Re: St. Nicolaus was a person that lived and died.
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Dec 2, 2024, 12:42 PM
[ in reply to Re: St. Nicolaus was a person that lived and died. ] |
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What evidence is there? I'm willing to bet there is more empirical evidence that man made global warming is real, correct?
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Orange Immortal [62225]
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Let me make sure I understand . . .
Dec 2, 2024, 10:05 AM
[ in reply to St. Nicolaus was a person that lived and died. ] |
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Q. Why is it insane for grown people to believe in Santa Clause but not crazy for adults to believe in God?
A. It's insane to believe in God because of claims that Jesus rose from the dead. While no such claims are made about Santa, we still acknowledge that he is not real.
As I said, we know Santa is made up. While some may believe God is made up too, we don't know that as we do with Santa. That is the difference.
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Tiger Titan [49758]
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we have as much evidence of a magical sky fairy who created the universe
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Dec 2, 2024, 10:08 AM
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and will send you to hell for not believing in him as we do a fat jolly man with magical flying reindeer who can visit every child's house in one night
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Orange Immortal [62225]
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But we KNOW that Santa is not real.
Dec 2, 2024, 10:16 AM
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We don't KNOW that God is not real, no matter how strongly YOU believe he's not. That leaves the door open for believing, and many, many highly intelligent people do believe. You don't. That's okay.
I think your real question is, "How can people believe in God?" using belief in Santa Claus as just as plausible. It's not, as I have explained.
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Tiger Titan [46479]
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If we're going to use that in the argument...
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Dec 2, 2024, 10:21 AM
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Then I challenge the notion that Santa isn't real.
It's a belief in a mystical being that has supernatural powers and is capable of accomplishing superhuman feats, no?
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Orange Immortal [62225]
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Where are the historically reliable accounts of Santa flying in a sleigh
Dec 2, 2024, 10:26 AM
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pulled by reindeer?
Most historians do believe that Jesus lived and was crucified. Some even believe in the resurrection, or at least believe it was possible.
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Tiger Titan [46479]
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Re: Where are the historically reliable accounts of Santa flying in a sleigh
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Dec 2, 2024, 10:28 AM
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Yes, there is credible evidence Jesus lived and was crucified. The rest is left to personal belief.
We also know St. Nicholas was a real person. Whether he still flies around with reindeer is a personal belief.
Same argument.
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Orange Immortal [62225]
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Re: Where are the historically reliable accounts of Santa flying in a sleigh
Dec 2, 2024, 10:38 AM
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There were actual witnesses to a living Jesus post crucifixion, if you believe what was written in The Bible.
I have argued, and still do, that believing in the resurrection requires a leap of faith; faith in the accuracy and reliability of those accounts. As I've noted, some historians believe they are or could be accurate and reliable. I still contend that we can't know.
We do know that Santa does not fly in a reindeer-pulled sleigh. There are no serious accounts of it happening, and we know it is entirely fictional.
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Tiger Titan [46479]
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Re: Where are the historically reliable accounts of Santa flying in a sleigh
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Dec 2, 2024, 10:46 AM
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There were actual witnesses to a living Jesus post crucifixion, if you believe what was written in The Bible.
And that's where we come to an impasse. I'll probably bail out of the thread at this point because I know I'm not going to change anyone's mind on a message board, nor do I intend to.
We all find out who is right one day, and that's all we can really state as a fact.
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Orange Immortal [62225]
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I should add
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Dec 2, 2024, 10:29 AM
[ in reply to Where are the historically reliable accounts of Santa flying in a sleigh ] |
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I say all of this as a person who believes that an all-powerful God whose solution to sin was to have his son suffer an unnecessary horrible torturous death, is preposterous. I do not believe The Bible is the factual, inerrant word of God.
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Tiger Titan [46479]
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It feels silly...
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Dec 2, 2024, 10:20 AM
[ in reply to Because we know for a fact that Santa is made up. ] |
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When we know there isn't a fat jolly man flying around in a sleigh delivering presents to all children...
Yet believe that certain kids get cured of cancer because we prayed hard enough while others didn't.
But if people want to believe in either, that doesn't affect me... until they start trying to infuse it into the laws that govern my life.
I mean, we'd all have a problem with a government-mandated lights out/quiet time policy on Christmas Eve for Santa, right? Right?
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Orange Immortal [62225]
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Here's what I find interesting . . .
Dec 2, 2024, 11:46 AM
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I have people on here who believe in a resurrected Jesus, but absolutely will not admit that they can't KNOW that, but that it is an opinion that requires faith in something that can't be known.
Then, I have people on here who absolutely won't admit that they can't KNOW that Jesus was not resurrected from the dead, and instead it is just their opinion.
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Campus Hero [13649]
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Re: Here's what I find interesting . . .
Dec 2, 2024, 12:29 PM
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How does one KNOW anything they didn’t personally experience?
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Orange Immortal [62225]
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Re: Here's what I find interesting . . .
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Dec 2, 2024, 12:53 PM
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I would say we know that 2+2=4. Anything I don't personally witness or experience, requires faith in the accuracy and reliability of the available evidence. For instance, I would say I know that the coots beat us this past Saturday, even though I was not an eyewitness. That requires faith that the tv network was not lying or that I was not dreaming or hallucinating, but through other means I can verify that it did indeed happen, as I personally know many eye witnesses. My father was in WW2, so I know that happened.
The further back we go, the less certain we can be. Events of the civil war were chronicled by many as they happened, and so on, but the further back we go, and the fewer accounts we have, the less certain our "knowing" becomes, and the more we must rely on faith in the accuracy and reliability of the evidence, and at some point, the ability to "know" fades away, and we are just making a judgement and forming a belief or opinion.
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Tiger Titan [46479]
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Re: Here's what I find interesting . . .
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Dec 2, 2024, 1:48 PM
[ in reply to Here's what I find interesting . . . ] |
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I admit I can't know that he wasn't. There was a time I believed it. I'm also open-minded to a lot of possibilities in this world for things I don't understand.
I also know the resurrection story isn't an original one when it comes to religion, so that opens up a lot of questions for me with Christianity.
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Orange Immortal [62225]
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Re: Here's what I find interesting . . .
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Dec 2, 2024, 2:43 PM
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I have a lot of questions regarding what I was taught about Christianity, including the resurrection.
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Orange Immortal [65528]
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You have been trolling with this same thread
Dec 2, 2024, 10:41 AM
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for years.
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Orange Elite [5438]
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Isnt it a bit crazy to believe that the entire universe was simply
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Dec 2, 2024, 10:51 AM
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product of some random “big bang” event whose origin and impetus cannot be identified or explained?
Isn’t it also crazy to believe in macro (or micro) evolution in a universe that is a closed system (as defined by atheists who assume the absence of God and a creator), while also believing the 2nd law of thermodynamics to be true?
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Legend [6613]
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Re: Why is it insane for grown people to believe in Santa Clause
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Dec 2, 2024, 11:55 AM
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I don't necessarily agree with them but those who believe in an "intelligent design" theory about the origin of our universe would certainly seem less kooky than someone who believes a fat guy in a suit delivers toys to the entire world overnight. If you lack the mental capacity involved not to equate the two beliefs perhaps you should refrain from posting things that make you look like an imbecile.
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Clemson Conqueror [12088]
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Re: Why is it insane for grown people to believe in Santa Clause
Dec 2, 2024, 12:41 PM
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They are equal as far as just making something up. Intelligent design is just a different way of giving credit to a God who we are created in his image. It's just a way to believe in oraganized religion.
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Game Day Hero [4257]
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Re: Why is it insane for grown people to believe in Santa Clause
Dec 2, 2024, 1:29 PM
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Actually God is very anti religion.
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Clemson Conqueror [12088]
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Re: Why is it insane for grown people to believe in Santa Clause
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Dec 2, 2024, 4:58 PM
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I am not familiar with that theory. What's the scoop?
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Game Day Hero [4257]
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Re: Why is it insane for grown people to believe in Santa Clause
Dec 2, 2024, 6:43 PM
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Not a theory. It’s Christianity 101. Very long subject so I’ll just briefly give an answer. Jesus came to offer himself as a sacrifice for us and to free us from religion. By religion I’m speaking of the requirements for salvation based on man made rules and regulations. Jesus established a pathway for us to have a direct one on one relationship with him. He was so anti religious establishment of the day that they crucified him for it. I would go so far as to say a theme through the entire New Testament is anti religion. This of course, does not mean anti church in terms of fellowship and the good deeds the church should be doing.
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Paw Warrior [4759]
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Re: Why is it insane for grown people to believe in Santa Clause
Dec 3, 2024, 8:33 AM
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Ultimate Tiger [36279]
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Re: Why is it insane for grown people to believe in Santa Clause
Dec 2, 2024, 4:32 PM
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Wow, a throwback P&R thread, this feels like circa 2008. All we’re missing now is a camcgee 3000 word dissertation
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Replies: 56
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