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110%er [6474]
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Venables vs Goodwin..
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8
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Oct 24, 2023, 8:37 PM
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Brent Vs Wes, personality and intensity wise is like Gunnery Sgt Hartman (full metal jacket) vs Barney the Purple Dinosaur.
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Orange Blooded [4048]
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Re: Venables vs Goodwin..
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Oct 24, 2023, 8:51 PM
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Wes ain't the man for the job!
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Associate AD [800]
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Re: Venables vs Goodwin..
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Oct 24, 2023, 11:04 PM
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I don't think Goodwin has players the caliber of Christian Wilkins, Big Dex, etc. to bolster his defense.
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Orange Blooded [3627]
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Re: Venables vs Goodwin..
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Oct 25, 2023, 8:25 AM
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WG doesn’t have the fire to bring out the intensity in them if they were here again. Coaching isn’t a self serve model for the players to figure out, develop and motivate themselves.
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Freshman [-79]
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The defense is fine. You folks arent happy with anything !***
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Oct 25, 2023, 12:16 PM
[ in reply to Re: Venables vs Goodwin.. ] |
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Standout [331]
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Re: Venables vs Goodwin..
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Oct 24, 2023, 8:52 PM
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Venables all day
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Orange Blooded [4048]
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Re: Venables vs Goodwin..
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Oct 24, 2023, 8:54 PM
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Venables has that dog in him, and his guys attack!
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CU Guru [1100]
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Re: Venables vs Goodwin..
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Oct 24, 2023, 8:53 PM
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Wes I think is better suited for Fortnite.
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CU Guru [1321]
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Fortnite requires you to attack
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Oct 25, 2023, 8:55 AM
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Wes is more suited for Minecraft or My Little Pony Island Adventure.
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CU Guru [1798]
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Re: Venables vs Goodwin..
Oct 24, 2023, 8:56 PM
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Gunnery sergeant Hartman is awesome
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CU Guru [1798]
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Re: Venables vs Goodwin..
Oct 24, 2023, 8:56 PM
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Gunnery sergeant Hartman is awesome
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Heisman Winner [111644]
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I heard that the players are scared stiff of Goodwin
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Oct 24, 2023, 9:04 PM
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and that he will hide in a gator ade jug dressed like a leprechaun and pop out to scare them if they have a bad day of practice. The players are so utterly disturbed by this, they refuse to make any mistakes in practice, and certainly not in a game. Apparently, Denhoof has received the brunt of this.
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All-In [38592]
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Re: Venables vs Goodwin..
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Oct 24, 2023, 9:11 PM
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The D is OK. We have the right coach leading that.
It took Dabo a time to get his game going.
I am not going to call yall idiots, but ~~
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Heisman Winner [111644]
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we are just a little thin up front,
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Oct 24, 2023, 9:15 PM
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Preseason I saw us as a couple of injuries away from disaster at end, but have been happy to see that Parker is going to be a player because we lose Thomas and Mascoll, something we caught an early glimpse of in the 4th quarter last Saturday.
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Heisman Winner [140587]
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It's as if stats don't have any place in the conversation
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Oct 24, 2023, 9:16 PM
[ in reply to Re: Venables vs Goodwin.. ] |
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Odd that they more closely identify with Venables while more likely resembling Goodwin.
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All-In [48348]
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Re: Its as if stats dont have any place in the conversation
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Oct 24, 2023, 11:31 PM
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Stats are excellent but you have to analyze the stats. As you know, they can be told many ways.
Imo, Wes is a much better analyst than field general. That said, I agree defense isn't our problem, but it is mighty odd that our DE's haven't been effective in several years. It's also odd stat that we never got to Miami for a single sack on a freshman first start qb. I believe it's the first game this year that Miami hasn't given up a sack.
We've played 3 good (not great) teams this year and the D hasn't dominated any of the 3.
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Heisman Winner [140587]
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Definitely a different style.***
Oct 25, 2023, 7:00 AM
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Orange Blooded [2519]
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Holding FSU to 17 pts in regulation is by far their lowest output this yr
Oct 25, 2023, 12:17 PM
[ in reply to Re: Its as if stats dont have any place in the conversation ] |
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I doubt anyone else will do that to them until perhaps the playoff.
I've thought this year so far has been a bit more consistent than last yr, where we'd dominate for stretches then give up big plays or drives intermittently.
I think our biggest problem is on the field leadership. Our great linebackers occasionally disappear when they're needed most to win a game, like Miami's last drive to tie.
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Asst Coach [712]
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Re: Its as if stats dont have any place in the conversation
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Oct 25, 2023, 6:55 AM
[ in reply to It's as if stats don't have any place in the conversation ] |
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I wonder if some fans are cheering for the Clemson Tigers, or the Clemson Coaching staff. I was born a Tiger fan way before Dabo or any of his current staff were Clemson coaches. And God willing, I will be for many decades more after the current group is gone.
The only group that looks like Championship playoff Clemson is the secondary. Everywhere else the play doesn’t match the perceived and factual talent level.
The WRs don’t catch or get separation. The RBs are slow, can’t pass pro, and fumble. The line is soft and gets tossed around like rag dolls. The QB has flashes and then makes insanely bone headed decisions. All those veterans on the DL look the same as when they were freshman. The LBs are good but often out of position and there is no depth.
What in the world are they going to do on defense next year?
Message was edited by: PineLakeTiger®
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Heisman Winner [140587]
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Pulling for the Tigers makes someone a Clemson fan
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Oct 25, 2023, 6:59 AM
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Insulting Wes, at this point, makes them illogical.
Message was edited by: Francis Marion®
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Standout [316]
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Re: Venables vs Goodwin..
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Oct 24, 2023, 9:23 PM
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Put yourself in a recruits living room... Goodwin visits to make his pitch ... then Venables. Who do you think they are going to lean towards. Same with WR coaches, Brian Hartline or Grisham, comparisons are plenty. These young coaches haven't worked their way up the ladder, they were promoted prematurely and it's evident from the recruiting trail to the sidelines.
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All-In [38592]
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promoted prematurely
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Oct 24, 2023, 9:34 PM
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do you mean like Dabo ?
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Tiger Cub [12]
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Re: promoted prematurely
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Oct 24, 2023, 10:19 PM
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You mean Dabo who had little big time coaching experience?
The one who no one ever hired as a coordinator?
Give him time?
yes
Gave him time to go and get REAL Football Coaches and he, the wonderful CEO, let them coach.
Then, he decided HE knew how to coach, knew his way was better.
Yeah.
He thought HE did it.
He DID.
He recruited, he hired the best coaches and he managed.
Then, got out of his lane, Dabo did.
And, here Clemson is.
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Tiger Cub [12]
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Re: promoted prematurely
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Oct 24, 2023, 10:22 PM
[ in reply to promoted prematurely ] |
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Terry Don did not see a seasoned Football Coach.
He saw a really good man, detailed and passionate, that people would follow because he was and is a natural leader.
Not a natural great Football Coach.
A HC doesn't have to be, usually shouldn't be.
It's not the job it was when Coach Howard was around.
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Standout [306]
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Re: Venables vs Goodwin..
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Oct 24, 2023, 9:31 PM
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BV every day and twice on Saturday. Goodwin is too conservative. I’d rather lose putting pressure leveraging our best 2 position groups on the entire team (DL/CB) than watch his prevent bs lose us another game.
BV would give up the big play here or there sure, but the guys took his energy, they were aggressive, had swagger and intensity, and that carried over to the guys on the other side of the ball to make the whole team better. Wes Goodwin has the on field personality of a cardboard cutout of Wes Goodwin
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All-In [38592]
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Re: Venables vs Goodwin..
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Oct 24, 2023, 9:37 PM
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BV was/is an aberration as a D coach. That aint at most places.
We aint getting that back.
That does not mean we will not have a good D - in fact, we have that now.
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Asst Coach [712]
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Re: Venables vs Goodwin..
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Oct 25, 2023, 8:29 AM
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Yes Clemson could have gotten that back. It would be very hard to convince me that there wasn’t a DC with a winning pedigree, that would not have bolted to Clemson in a heartbeat. Or WR coach, or any other position coach.
I can take the losses. I don’t like it as a fan. But what just eats me alive is the Anti Portal stance, and the bizarre coaching hires.
People say the portal isn’t why Clemson is where they are. But the portal is exactly why FSU is winning, and why Miami can field a dominant OL. All in the span of a year.
Imagine Clemson sprinkling in some pieces throughout the roster. A few OL. A kicker. Some WRs that can run and make big plays. A few guys on the front 7 that add depth and more talent.
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Freshman [-79]
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The portal is NOT why we lost to FSU or Miami. Lame take.***
Oct 25, 2023, 12:19 PM
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CU Guru [1277]
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I would say a first round
Oct 24, 2023, 9:44 PM
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Knock out and a lot of crying
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Varsity [220]
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I'll take Brent over the Pillsbury Dough Boy any day.***
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Oct 24, 2023, 10:04 PM
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CU Guru [1749]
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Re: Venables vs Goodwin..
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Oct 24, 2023, 10:06 PM
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Lmao good analogy.... Wes reminds of the Pillsbury doughboy and the defense has taken on the soft demeanor.
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Orange Blooded [2908]
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Wes hasn't been too bad
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Oct 24, 2023, 10:16 PM
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I just think BV did more as a whole. BV tried to take Wes with him. The problem is we are missing key pieces just like before the big run. Great running backs, but crappy defense or QB... I'm glad I don't care as much anymore
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110%er [7114]
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It's not that bad
Oct 24, 2023, 10:20 PM
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A more apt comparison would be Gunny Sgt. Highway and Gunny Sgt. Webster.
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Orange Blooded [3569]
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Re: Venables vs Goodwin..
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Oct 24, 2023, 10:32 PM
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Honestly BV is the better college coach. I really think Wes would be a better NFL DC. He would only be calling plays and gameplanning as opposed to coaching fundamentals and motivating.
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All-In [48348]
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Re: Venables vs Goodwin..
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Oct 24, 2023, 11:18 PM
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I think you nailed it there. Maybe why conn moved to the field. BV would be a horrible NFL coach imo. But he understood how to teach college players. BV just seems to have a 6th sense about football in general. Could adjust on a dime and knew through game planning where to put guys in the grass. How not to lose leverage. He could flat out identify talent. Let's not forget, we weren't going after woodaz until BV found him.
I know most disagree. BV defense would have an occasional bad game but it's hard to maintain intensity when you're up on va tech 38-3. BV had the luxury of rotation because offense was so dominant. But I'm not sold on Wes. CBV had the inate ability to scheme and dominate in big games. The only really good teams Wes has gone against is ND, Tennessee, and fsu this year. Fsu is still tbd.
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CU Guru [1106]
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Re: Venables vs Goodwin..
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Oct 24, 2023, 10:35 PM
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I’ve been defending WG all season until now. The lack of aggression against Miami should be criminal. That freshman QB had BV been coaching, would’ve thought all hell was on his door step. Please offer the Canes OL coach a salary he can’t refuse. He put on a clinic!!
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CU Guru [1749]
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Re: Venables vs Goodwin..
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Oct 25, 2023, 9:04 AM
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The no pressure on the long 3rd down late 4th quarter was a headscratcher...he had time to knot a sweater.
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Orange Blooded [2519]
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That was a good call, they were in max protect and we had 8 in coverage
Oct 25, 2023, 12:21 PM
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8 should be able to cover 3, but somehow we didn't.
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110%er [6952]
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Re: Venables vs Goodwin..
Oct 24, 2023, 10:58 PM
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7th defense in the country. Not much drop off from BV. Also not giving Wes the benefit of the doubt in transition is wild considering we were awful on defense for a while under BV. Took some time to adjust, yet still had those 40 point give games to Pitt and teams like that when we were contenders. BV was never the answer or the problem. He is much easier to replace with our recruiting than OC
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Orange Blooded [3730]
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No comparison, really - that is all***
Oct 25, 2023, 6:56 AM
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MVP [502]
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Re: Venables vs Goodwin..
Oct 25, 2023, 7:24 AM
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We are currently ranked 7th in the country in total defence.
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MVP [502]
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Re: Venables vs Goodwin..
Oct 25, 2023, 7:26 AM
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Oklahoma is ranked 53rd.
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110%er [6474]
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Re: Venables vs Goodwin..
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Oct 25, 2023, 8:24 AM
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Schedule.......
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Orange Blooded [3059]
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Clemson is #23 and OU is #47 in SOS according to ESPN***
Oct 25, 2023, 12:10 PM
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110%er [6474]
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Joined: 11/2/03
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Re: Clemson is #23 and OU is #47 in SOS according to ESPN***
Oct 25, 2023, 3:06 PM
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We all gripe about everything ESPN says.
Clemson has faced 1 high powered Offense to date.
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110%er [6474]
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110%er [5483]
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Re: Clemson is #23 and OU is #47 in SOS according to ESPN***
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Oct 25, 2023, 3:50 PM
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Add to that:
Duke ranked
Fl St ranked
Louisville ranked
UNC ranked
And where are we? Somewhere near the crapper. Quite a demise in 4 yrs.
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All-Conference [409]
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Re: Clemson is #23 and OU is #47 in SOS according to ESPN***
Oct 25, 2023, 10:12 PM
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Hold up wait a minute.......are you guys trying to tell me that we are not going to be in a playoff game this year? Well......we will see what Dabo has to say about that.
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Starter [394]
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Re: Venables vs Goodwin..
Oct 25, 2023, 12:13 PM
[ in reply to Re: Venables vs Goodwin.. ] |
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Schedule??? Who has Oklahoma played? Is Texas better than Florida State? Is anyone else on OU's schedule better than Duke?
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110%er [6474]
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Re: Venables vs Goodwin..
Oct 25, 2023, 9:50 PM
[ in reply to Re: Venables vs Goodwin.. ] |
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Just saw Oklahoma has allowed fewest total points of any big 12 D.
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110%er [7166]
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Yeah but thats like comparing Beamer to Spurrier
Oct 25, 2023, 8:33 AM
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You had a truly gifted legend of the game and an understudy .. basically an intern. It’s not a fair comparison. Venables is the best defensive coordinator in the country. Anyone is going to be a step down.
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110%er [6474]
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Re: Yeah but thats like comparing Beamer to Spurrier
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Oct 25, 2023, 9:00 AM
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Goodwins lack of intensity is my biggest gripe with him. His xes ond O's are fine. His recruiting, player development, and ability to motivate are his weakness.
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110%er [5483]
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Re: Yeah but thats like comparing Beamer to Spurrier
Oct 25, 2023, 3:52 PM
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He has the enthusiasm of a bowl ofnoodles. Much the same as CBB.
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110%er [9656]
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Re: Venables vs Goodwin..
Oct 25, 2023, 9:03 AM
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BV is like TL and DW4. Generational. Implying that we should lose Wes and go get another BV would be easier said than done. I’m critical of this staff but of all the things we can legitimately be griping about Wes Goodwin is or should be on the very bottom of that list
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Orange Blooded [4059]
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But most of our problems are offense***
Oct 25, 2023, 12:24 PM
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Walk-On [129]
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Re: But most of our problems are offense***
Oct 26, 2023, 7:30 AM
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The defense hasn’t lost us games and has been fine. The offense and QB are the problem, that’s why we have been losing. Complaining about the DC is like complaining about how the grass needs to be cut when your house is on fire…
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Orange Blooded [4306]
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Goodwin was his analyst. BV is HC now
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Oct 26, 2023, 7:30 AM
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the two do not belong in the same conversation
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CU Guru [1013]
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Re: Venables vs Goodwin..
Oct 26, 2023, 1:19 PM
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You mean Bobby Hill
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Letterman [293]
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Re: Venables vs Goodwin..
Oct 26, 2023, 3:27 PM
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I just always recall the quote by BV "Pressure breaks steel pipes". We don't seem to see that pressure anymore. We just see prevention. Not the same type of intimidating energy to direct at opposing offenses...
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110%er [6474]
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Re: Venables vs Goodwin..
Oct 26, 2023, 8:10 PM
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Wess won't break anything but a buffet owner.
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Replies: 59
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