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Tiger Spirit [9233]
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3-Star Football Recruits
May 20, 2018, 12:46 PM
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It seems like we're offering several 3-star players lately. What about 4-star and especially 5-star players? We didn't get to be national champions two years ago and have the run we're having by recruiting 3-star players. That's what we used to settle for back in the old days.
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Ultimate Tiger [38595]
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Re: 3-Star Football Recruits
May 20, 2018, 12:50 PM
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Every three 3 star players are a 9 star player ... so we're basically ripping the roof off of this one .
Setting the industry standard .
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Clemson Conqueror [11647]
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Re: 3-Star Football Recruits
May 20, 2018, 12:50 PM
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Do you think that Dabo and his staff don't know which players to go after. It is my understanding that they recruit guys that they know can play, not ones that recruiting services say can play. Certainly many of those are 4 and 5 star players, but some are less heralded. Does Hunter Renfrow ring a bell?
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Legend [6865]
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Re: 3-Star Football Recruits
May 20, 2018, 12:54 PM
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Bowers was a two star I think.
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Playmaker [372]
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Re: 3-Star Football Recruits
May 20, 2018, 1:01 PM
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Not really, espn #1 in 07 class
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110%er [6662]
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Re: 3-Star Football Recruits
May 20, 2018, 1:18 PM
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Was he a 5-star when he committed or when he signed
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Legend [6865]
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Commissioner [1211]
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Re: 3-Star Football Recruits
May 22, 2018, 1:07 AM
[ in reply to Re: 3-Star Football Recruits ] |
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It's early, but *'s do matter & that 's not really debateable; unless U lazily argue 'exceptions to the rule'
. Bowers a 4 or 5 *, not a 2
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CU Medallion [20426]
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Who do you think is better?
May 20, 2018, 12:53 PM
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A 3 star with offers from Bama, ND, PSU, Ohio St and Oklahoma..or
A 4 star with offers from Kentucky, Duke, App State and USuC?
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110%er [6662]
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Re: Who do you think is better?
May 20, 2018, 1:00 PM
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Wow. Really? 3 stars now in the 2019-20 will get their 4th and sometimes 5th star during their senior season. Its called identifying talent.
Message was edited by: fencebusters®
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Oculus Spirit [43060]
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^This^***
May 20, 2018, 1:17 PM
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Orange Immortal [61550]
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BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA ... BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
May 20, 2018, 1:08 PM
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HAHAHAHAHAHAHA...BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...(cough, cough)... BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
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Oculus Spirit [43060]
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You obviously don’t track our staff’s recruiting very well.
May 20, 2018, 1:16 PM
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TJ Green, Adam Humphries and Grady Jarrett were all two stars that come to mind. All went on to the NFL. Our staff seems to have a knack for finding under the radar players.
Also it is early in the process. The rankings change throughout the year. Many lower ranked players will be ranked higher in terms of star rating by the end of they year because they will get more exposure. It happens every year.
I thought a real Clemson fan would’ve learned to trust our staff by now. SMH
Message was edited by: CootSmackdown16®
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110%er [6662]
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Re: You obviously don’t track our staff’s recruiting very well.
May 20, 2018, 1:23 PM
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Well, choice not yet
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Oculus Spirit [43060]
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Correction: I meant to say Humphries
May 20, 2018, 2:36 PM
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Choice was a 4 star. I don’t know why I did that. It’s fixed.
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Orange Blooded [2249]
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Re: You obviously don’t track our staff’s recruiting very well.
May 20, 2018, 1:41 PM
[ in reply to You obviously don’t track our staff’s recruiting very well. ] |
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First Adam Choice is still on the team and he was a top 100-150 by all the recruiting services. What could have been. If he wouldn't have gotten hurt I truly believe he would have been a long time starter. After coming back from his ACL he was extremely timid and didn't look the same. By the time he started to get confident again he gets hurt again. Now the word is he has probably been the best back this spring and I wouldn't be surprised to see his production go up this season.
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Oculus Spirit [43060]
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I meant to type Humphries***
May 20, 2018, 2:37 PM
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Game Changer [1663]
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Oculus Spirit [43060]
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Correct sir. He was a 4* I meant to type Humphries***
May 20, 2018, 2:38 PM
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Ultimate Tiger [36452]
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Playmaker [381]
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Re: 3-Star Football Recruits
May 20, 2018, 1:23 PM
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2020 Recruits have 2 years to increase their star ratings. Settle down and be patient.
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Tiger Spirit [9233]
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You're right - hadn't thought of that***
May 20, 2018, 2:04 PM
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All-TigerNet [14488]
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Grady Jarrett, Vic Beasley, Coty Sensabaugh, Hunter Renfrow***
May 20, 2018, 1:41 PM
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National Champion [7107]
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Trust the coaches*
May 20, 2018, 1:48 PM
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Nm
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Game Changer [1936]
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Re: 3-Star Football Recruits
May 20, 2018, 1:49 PM
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Who were all the 5 stars on the natty team?
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Game Changer [1878]
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Re: 3-Star Football Recruits
May 20, 2018, 2:39 PM
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Deshaun Watson, Tre Lamar, Shaq Smith, Deon Cain, RRM III, CW42, Dexter Lawrence to name a few. Only people that think stars don’t matter are the ones who don’t understand statistics. Stars absolutely matter and it’s proven over and over you need an extremely high blue chip ratio to win it all.
I agree I’m not worried about who we offer as Dabo and co are slightly smarter than most of us here. Wait it out and this class will fill out nicely. With more numbers means an expanded board but the star power will come.
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Campus Hero [13855]
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Yep. Signing a bunch of 3-stars on signing day would
May 20, 2018, 3:32 PM
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be a little concerning because the star ratings DO matter. However, i don't expect all of these 3-star guys to stay 3-star guys. The offer sheets are too good.
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Game Changer [1936]
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Re: 3-Star Football Recruits
May 21, 2018, 8:39 PM
[ in reply to Re: 3-Star Football Recruits ] |
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So Deshaun, Wilkins, and Cain were the contributors of those 5 stars in that season. The rest were 3 and 4 stars.
It isn't like our staff doesn't go after those guys. But you can't make them go to Clemson. I trust who our staff offers and what we take
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Tiger Spirit [9233]
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Okay everybody!!! I stand corrected!!!!***
May 20, 2018, 2:05 PM
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Ring of Honor [21278]
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Re: 3-Star Football Recruits
May 20, 2018, 2:12 PM
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It seems like we're offering several 3-star players lately. What about 4-star and especially 5-star players? We didn't get to be national champions two years ago and have the run we're having by recruiting 3-star players. That's what we used to settle for back in the old days.
3 stars per who?
Clemson coaches make their own evaluations, and I can promise you the evals the coaches make are assuredly NOT the same as the ones the recruiting services make.
One thing recruiting services don't measure - actually, one thing they utterly ignore - is attitude and coachability. You can be the biggest, most felonious, chick-punching scumbag on the planet, with a haze of pot smoke oozing from the earholes of your helmet...but if you've got 5-star physical ability and you show out in camps, you still get rated purely on your physical talent. The recruiting services like to pretend that these young players are basically just like the sims on their Madden consoles, and every player has a numerical rating and will be the same for everyone, under all conditions and circumstances.
The real world doesn't work quite that way.
Does this mean a lot of Underwear Olympics-hero-type players who look great in their Under Armour jerseys wind up rated 5-stars? Yup. It's the old "looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane" trap.
A lot more of these players wind up ruined by the process. Entirely too many nationally-ranked recruits are so used to having coaches kiss their tails for years as high school students, they can't handle actual expectations and accountability once they get to school. And the schools themselves ruin a lot more...once you hand a kid cash, for instance, he's beyond accountability - he knows the rules don't apply to him because you broke the rules to get him to begin with. And oh, yeah, the NCAA is just a phone call away....
And also, Clemson did get where it was going largely off the backs of its 3-star players. Check the roster for that 2015-2016 team that first appeared in the National Title game...yeah, that roster was leavened with a handful of 5-star guys like Deshaun Watson and Mitch Hyatt and Christian Wilkins (though the last two were true freshmen), and there were a few more 4-star guys like Artavis Scott and Mackenzie Alexander, but the bulk of the roster was 3-star dudes...you know, like Wayne Gallman, Jordan Leggett, Taylor Hearn, Jay Guillermo, Cordrea Tankersely...the list went on and on. And oh, yeah, there were some guys who rated lower than that, like TJ Green - who was a 2-star converted WR playing safety - and of course, Hunter Renfrow, who was a no-star converted QB walk-on playing WR. I even remember they pulled Kevin Dodd from Riverside High School...I think he might have wound up a 3-star late in the process owing mostly to courtesy, but I don't think anybody regarded him as more than a 2-star developmental prospect, the kind of guy you get in January because you still have some spots open. Dodd wound up drafted in the second round.
IMHO, Clemson doesn't really excel at the "recruiting" aspect because we don't have a "do whatever it takes to get this specific recruit to commit" mentality like most SEC teams do. We're good recruiters, and Dabo is excellent in the living room because he's so durn personable and he stands for the kind of things parents really get behind.
Where we really differ, IMHO, is in our ability to evaluate the "right kinda guys" and then develop them. There have actually been a lot of articles written in the past about Clemson's exceptional "hit rate" on recruits - we offer fewer players than any school in FBS football - and our ability to develop talent well above our numerical recruiting rankings. The statistical outlier, for years, has been Clemson in terms of production-versus-rankings.
Whatever, anybody who expects Clemson to solely offer 4-and-5-star, nationally-rated guys, has simply not been playing attention. Has our staff ever done things that way?
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Campus Hero [13855]
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It's too early to deem all of these guys 3-star players
May 20, 2018, 3:02 PM
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One had offers from Bama, UGA, etc. Do you really think he will stay a 3 star when all of the elite programs are after him?
There's still a lot of time left in this cycle for ratings to change.
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Tiger Spirit [9968]
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Re: 3-Star Football Recruits
May 20, 2018, 3:16 PM
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It seems like we're offering several 3-star players lately. What about 4-star and especially 5-star players? We didn't get to be national champions two years ago and have the run we're having by recruiting 3-star players. That's what we used to settle for back in the old days.
Leggett and Boulware were both three star recruits. Bunch of others on the Natty team were as well.
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Campus Hero [13855]
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Commissioner [1211]
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Re: Boulware was a 4*
May 22, 2018, 1:30 AM
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Yes, he was, convenient to subtract a * in order to better their arguement-W. GALLMAN 4*! not a 3 as was stated earlier by a poster, MWILLIAMS 4*!
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110%er [5045]
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Re: 3-Star Football Recruits
May 20, 2018, 3:24 PM
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When we offered Andrew Booth he wasn’t even rated. He’s now the #1 ranked corner in the country and us offering his early gave us a huge advantage. By the way we won that National Championship with 3 stars. Mike Williams, Gallman, nearly everyone in the trenches for offense, etc..
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Varsity [247]
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Re: 3-Star Football Recruits
May 20, 2018, 4:06 PM
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We all sound like coots, trying to console ourselves that 3-stars are better by listing 6 players as examples.
Dabo recruits kids that will buy into the culture. So much that separates kids through college is work ethic and belief.
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Ring of Honor [21278]
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Re: 3-Star Football Recruits
May 20, 2018, 5:52 PM
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We all sound like coots, trying to console ourselves that 3-stars are better by listing 6 players as examples.
Dabo recruits kids that will buy into the culture. So much that separates kids through college is work ethic and belief.
I don't believe 3-stars are "better". Statistically they aren't.
I also believe that talent evaluation by the recruiting services is highly tilted towards physical measureables, and that's the weak point of the evaluation services.
I can tell you firsthand: probably 50%-60% of the kids doing the camp circuit, who are rated 4-or-5 stars, are kids we also do not want. They will have the physical talent, sure. But some of them simply aren't student-athletes. Some of them have real bad attitudes, and have becomes primadonnas because of the amount of attention they've received. Still others are worse than that, and have their hands out. A smaller fraction are even actual criminals, or are so low-character or low-work-ethic they simply aren't going to pan out, probably anywhere.
You wash that 50-60% out in the evaluation process (and we definitely try to), and you're left with a very small pool of obvious 4-and-5-star guys, and unless you're wildly lucky you won't get enough of them to fill a class.
After that, what you've gotta do is: evaluate lesser-known guys. Some of them are developmental prospects, guys who are rawer, guys who either haven't played much football or are going to switch positions for you in college. Some come from smaller schools. Others are guys who may not have the obvious 4-or-5-star physical tools but have serious game...Ryan Carter was a great example, and even Ben Boulware would fit that description. (We didn't offer until Venables arrived; Kevin Steele didn't think Boulware was offer-worthy and at the time Boulware was just a 3-star prospect without a ton of offers.)
If you're sifting 3-stars, you'd better be good at evaluation, and you'd better be good at development, and our staff seems to be very good at both. The statistics don't lie: nobody offers fewer prospects than Clemson, and nobody - not one school in America - has a higher "hit-rate" than Clemson. (Articles have been written about this, google it if you think I'm being "cootish".)
All I'm saying.
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All-Pro [663]
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Re: 3-Star Football Recruits
May 20, 2018, 8:46 PM
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You might be high on that figure but let's say 60% of 4 and 5 stars are not good fits. That still leaves plenty to go after and few schools can offer what we now do and have as charismatic a coach to lead the effort.
You can't win it all hoping you hit on a sea of 3 stars- seeing something that all others missed. Diamonds in the rough are scarce these days because so much more information is available to so many more people.
Rankings aren't perfect but they are pretty good at predicting which teams end up at the top of the heap. When you get several improbable success stories under your belt, it's just human nature to think you can always beat the system. It's just natural hubris.
And lest we forget- having a six-star like DW at QB covers up for a lot of mistakes and makes a lot of people look better than they are. I suspect we have another one in the wings who'll do the same but one day not aiming higher might hurt us.
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Varsity [247]
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Re: 3-Star Football Recruits
May 20, 2018, 4:06 PM
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We all sound like coots, trying to console ourselves that 3-stars are better by listing 6 players as examples.
Dabo recruits kids that will buy into the culture. So much that separates kids through college is work ethic and belief.
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110%er [6662]
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Re: 3-Star Football Recruits
May 20, 2018, 4:08 PM
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No, we all do not sound like coots. We are just trying to say that kids that are rated 3-stars as a junior or sophomore in high school will not necessarily stay 3-stars.
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110%er [7719]
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Re: 3-Star Football Recruits
May 20, 2018, 5:47 PM
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Good lord where do these people come from
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CU Medallion [19364]
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We've offered a lot of studs
May 20, 2018, 7:36 PM
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Looks like Clemson is rolling with many options and choices ... Would no kidding like to see many of these top 2019 ballers select Clemson: Crouch at LB or RB, Mr. Pickens DE, Nolan Smith DE - XT & MJ gotta flip him over, Andrew Booth 6'1" CB, Trayvon Walker DE, welcome Frank Ladson!, Devin Bush CB, Trey Knox 6'5" WR, Nakobe Dean OLB from Miss, Hunter Henry TE, Justin Eboigbe DE, Sheridan Jones welcome!,Taisun P. welcome!, Joseph Charleston welcome!,
And most of all would love to see Dabo, TE and Robbie Caldwell close the deal on some select Hogs this recruiting season: Harry Miller OT, center Clay Webb, Will Putnam OG all seem interested ... all about the trenches.
As for Mississippi's Nathan Pickering 6'5" 277 lb - would love to see us recruit this young man and move this SDE to DT if he fits BV's blueprint.
All that said, Bama and UGA are not going anywhere, but Tigers are recruiting strategically with results. No worries here - in fact, total confidence in coach's recruiting skills.
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Ultimate Tiger [38595]
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Re: We've offered a lot of studs
May 20, 2018, 8:26 PM
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You forgot the #Boom .
He's not going anywhere either . If the fear is Alabama and UGA in the lush recruiting landscape ... better not forget the Coots have a tireless gardener .
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Solid Orange [1324]
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