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TNET: Clemson, the ACC, and conference realignment: What happens next?
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Editor [∞]
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TNET: Clemson, the ACC, and conference realignment: What happens next?
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Aug 3, 2023, 11:38 AM
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Hall of Famer [20292]
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Thank You, David!! Much Appreciated!!
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Aug 3, 2023, 11:46 AM
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David,
Your work and your updates are certainly appreciated by all of us. Thank you for sharing your insights!
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All-In [38124]
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Re: Thank You, David!! Much Appreciated!!
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Aug 3, 2023, 3:56 PM
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"Now who can argue with that?"
Thanks for keeping us updated with a calm demeaner.
Go Tigers!!! Win the opener... Win the conference... Win the State... Win the closer...
Ya can't ask for more than that.
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CU Guru [1344]
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Re: Thank You, David!! Much Appreciated!!
Aug 4, 2023, 12:18 PM
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Adding disgruntled players from other teams does not help the locker rooms or as teammates on the field.
They can also create problems, because they think they deserve to start from day one.
Let the other teams deal with those problems, problem players are often sent packing by Dabo.
I agree with his approach, finding the right person in the portal that will have immediate impact is often a challenge, but it happens.
If we say healthy this year, the portal will be an afterthought.
Go Tigers, Whoop Dook!
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Orange Blooded [3427]
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Great report and update. Thanks David!***
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Aug 3, 2023, 11:49 AM
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CU Guru [1250]
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David, At The Expense of Repeating Myself
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Aug 3, 2023, 11:49 AM
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Those "sources" that mention UNC and Virginia as potential targets for the SEC due to new markets do not understand the question.
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All-TigerNet [10824]
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Re: David, At The Expense of Repeating Myself
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Aug 3, 2023, 1:44 PM
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Out of curiosity, why not?
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110%er [7219]
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Re: David, At The Expense of Repeating Myself
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Aug 4, 2023, 2:47 AM
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Because the networks only care about “eyeballs”. More eyeballs = more advertising dollars. More advertising dollars = more money to pay for the new acquisition. Only 2 teams that are not currently in the big 2 provide enough eyeballs to offset the cost to the networks. The teams in the big 2 are not going to subsidize any new teams. UNC may be able to “almost” offset their cut of the pie. UVA will never be able to.
The B1G is going to offer UW and Oregon less than a half share, rumored to be $30 million a year. With the increased travel cost that is a bitter pill for them.
Most of the noise from fans comes from them trying to justify a desired outcome with a flawed vision of the economics of the situation.
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110%er [7219]
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Re: David, At The Expense of Repeating Myself
Aug 4, 2023, 9:58 AM
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And a few hours after the post above we learned Washington is asking for $10 million more a year to offset travel expenses. Like clockwork. This isn’t hard folks. Just have a clear understanding of what generates the money, then follow the money.
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All-TigerNet [13891]
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That no sources even hint at Clemson
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Aug 3, 2023, 12:00 PM
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having a landing spot in the SEC or BIG is very disconcerting. Finding a way out of the GOR is only half the battle. The other half is getting an invite to the BIG or SEC and there is no indication either has a strong interest in us. Am I wrong?
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CU Guru [1057]
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Re: That no sources even hint at Clemson
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Aug 3, 2023, 12:14 PM
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At this very moment it may not seem like that now. But if the future is what David said in his article of a Big 2, SEC vs Big Ten, then Clemson will absolutely be wanted (eventually) by both conferences. The amount of eyeballs Clemson draws and the money they bring in on football alone will be attractive I promise you.
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CU Medallion [55430]
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Re: That no sources even hint at Clemson
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Aug 3, 2023, 2:57 PM
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These networks could care less about what a school can bring in for themselves and that is the whole point, and with the SEC having Coot U in South Carolina, ESECPN has their connection in our state, and I've always felt that if the sec wanted to get bigger, they will do it with their upfront thoughts of what schools they can bring in that wasn't already in the SEC coverage market, and our beloved Clemson isn't that school bc the SEC has South Carolina covered with Coot U. With S.C. already in their pocket, the only thing that Clemson could bring to the SEC would be a pretty good FB program and that's it, we would be a drainage to the SEC bc they already have the TV market covered with Coot U, and by Clemson filling DV every Saturday only helps us with Ticket sales that the SEC wouldn't get none of, so we wouldn't be a benefit to the SEC other than winning FB games and that's not what they are looking for, they would be looking for new markets to advertise in....
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All-In [38124]
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Re: That no sources even hint at Clemson
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Aug 3, 2023, 4:02 PM
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Clemson brings TV viewers. Look up Clemson's brand nationwide as well as their TV viewers. Clemson is top 10 in both. That is what they care about. The world is getting smaller and smaller... "TV Markets" are no longer a thing.
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Team Captain [460]
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Re: That no sources even hint at Clemson
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Aug 3, 2023, 5:42 PM
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True but part of that is the good fortune and timing of us currently being great. If this were happening in the 90s we would be an afterthought. Not being a blue blood, if we were to cycle back to that we would no longer be the value we are today.
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Orange Blooded [2634]
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Re: That no sources even hint at Clemson
Aug 4, 2023, 7:10 AM
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So, you want us to consider a hypothetical situation if this had happened 20 years ago? That’s productive.
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110%er [7219]
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Re: That no sources even hint at Clemson
Aug 4, 2023, 2:50 AM
[ in reply to Re: That no sources even hint at Clemson ] |
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Exactly correct. This isn’t a territorial batter over acres. It’s a battle over viewers.
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CU Medallion [64591]
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I have said it before and I will say it again...
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Aug 3, 2023, 12:16 PM
[ in reply to That no sources even hint at Clemson ] |
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Clemson is one of the nations top brands and college football programs and, on that basis, is absolutely NOT going to be left without a seat at the expansion table. It's just not going to happen. You can take that to the bank.
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CU Medallion [55430]
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Re: I have said it before and I will say it again...
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Aug 3, 2023, 3:00 PM
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LOL, Clemson wouldn't give the SEC nothing to take to the bank, they get that from Coot U already, but if they were looking to strengthening their FB, Clemson would be a good choice for the SEC, but they are looking to strengthening their bank account!!!
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CU Medallion [64591]
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I could agree with you but then we'd both be wrong.***
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Aug 3, 2023, 3:14 PM
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null
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All-In [48345]
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Re: I have said it before and I will say it again...
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Aug 3, 2023, 3:53 PM
[ in reply to I have said it before and I will say it again... ] |
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Dabo is the brand and he's built it. As for taking it to the bank. I think we all hope that's true. But I'm certainly not mortgaging my house betting that's true.
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110%er [7534]
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Re: TNET: Clemson, the ACC, and conference realignment: What happens next?
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Aug 3, 2023, 12:03 PM
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I would really like VT to land wherever we do. Always liked playing them and been to couple games in Blacksburg, had some good tailgates. Obviously includes FSU as well.
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All-In [27188]
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Re: TNET: Clemson, the ACC, and conference realignment: What happens next?
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Aug 3, 2023, 12:12 PM
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This further reinforces my opinion that FSU is on a fishing expedition........there is no landing spot "just yet".......but depending upon what shakes out of the PAC12 to BIGXII turmoil, there may be one coming very soon. Clemson is wise to keep its head down and options open.
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CU Medallion [55430]
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Re: TNET: Clemson, the ACC, and conference realignment: What happens next?
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Aug 3, 2023, 3:07 PM
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That's not just the best thing we can do, it's the only thing we can do along with prayers!!!
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110%er [6452]
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Re: TNET: Clemson, the ACC, and conference realignment: What happens next?
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Aug 3, 2023, 12:14 PM
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Seems like the B10 can’t afford to take us and the $EC would just assume let us hang out to dry.
If the SEC would rather take UNC and VA over Clemson and FSU….I have no words
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Varsity [232]
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Re: TNET: Clemson, the ACC, and conference realignment: What happens next?
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Aug 3, 2023, 12:20 PM
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No B1G. I hate noon games. We are a natural fit for the SEC.
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CU Medallion [55430]
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null [17]
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Re: TNET: Clemson, the ACC, and conference realignment: What happens next?
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Aug 3, 2023, 4:19 PM
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I've never bought into this footprint argument. I'm Clemson alum and I watch wayyy more SEC football than I do ACC football. That has zero to do with South Carolina. It's all about the matchups. The SEC has a ton of regular season GOOD matchups which leads to higher TV ratings. The ACC might have 2-3 a year on a good year. Add Clemson to that mix and it's just more GOOD regular season matchups which leads to higher TV ratings. You don't think people in NC and Virginia are already watching SEC football games? Of course they are if they're college football fans.
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Orange Blooded [2634]
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Boomer…
Aug 4, 2023, 7:17 AM
[ in reply to Re: TNET: Clemson, the ACC, and conference realignment: What happens next? ] |
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The world has changed. Time to change with it.
It’s purely about brand and eyeballs. The conferences have enough media analysts to understand this. Streaming, remote work, etc.
People are transient and have more of a tendency to watch the best matchups regardless of where they are currently parked.
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MVP [541]
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Re: TNET: Clemson, the ACC, and conference realignment: What happens next?
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Aug 3, 2023, 12:23 PM
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Yes, basically anything that lawyers can do, other lawyers can undo....but can take years. The real interesting question is who runs the show? Right now it is TV I think without a doubt and they have their own version of territory battles so the question might really be - who do they want to broadcast and how are they going to split up their "conferences?" The Grant of Rights is easy IF the networks come up with a better deal....otherwise it is our lawyer against theirs...
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110%er [8538]
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Re: TNET: Clemson, the ACC, and conference realignment: What happens next?
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Aug 3, 2023, 12:25 PM
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Is it feasible for all the PAC schools to join either the Big10, Big12 or SEC, are all the Big12 schools happy with a TV contract that is less than what the ACC has? The question for me is if the ACC is serious about the future, is there an effort to have schools join that would allow the conference to push for a bigger TV contract? Television is not about a school or 3 or 4 schools but is about numbers of viewers in regions. Viewers equal money and if the ACC is not trying to increase members and therefore viewers, they cannot just expect to get a bigger piece of the money.
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110%er [7998]
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Re: TNET: Clemson, the ACC, and conference realignment: What happens next?
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Aug 3, 2023, 12:39 PM
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Is it feasible for all the PAC schools to join either the Big10, Big12 or SEC, are all the Big12 schools happy with a TV contract that is less than what the ACC has? The question for me is if the ACC is serious about the future, is there an effort to have schools join that would allow the conference to push for a bigger TV contract? Television is not about a school or 3 or 4 schools but is about numbers of viewers in regions. Viewers equal money and if the ACC is not trying to increase members and therefore viewers, they cannot just expect to get a bigger piece of the money.
Its more than adding TV markets, it's about actual viewers each team attracts. In the old days where folks only had a few choices on what to watch, adding a market made sense because airing a football game in a market would attrect additional viewers. Now with hundreds (maybe thousands) of streaming options, simply showing a live game will not add to the number of viewers. The new metric is how many viewers a particular team attracts based on history. A second metric is the three million viewer games. Big matchups like Clemson vs. UGA or Bama vs UGA or Clemson vs ND are whale games which attract the casual fan who will watch these whale games but not otherwise view a Clemson vs. Furman or Bama vs Troy game.
It has been reported that there is no team out there which would move the needle upward. In fact, every team available would not be worth the current $40M payout so adding a team only worth $20M would mean the other ACC teams would need to make up the difference unless the new team only received a partial share.
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All-In [38124]
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Re: TNET: Clemson, the ACC, and conference realignment: What happens next?
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Aug 3, 2023, 4:04 PM
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BINGO!!! Viewers are what matters.
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All-In [46488]
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Re: TNET: Clemson, the ACC, and conference realignment: What happens next?
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Aug 3, 2023, 12:45 PM
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Thanks for the informative update!
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Athletic Dir [857]
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Re: TNET: Clemson, the ACC, and conference realignment: What happens next?
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Aug 3, 2023, 12:47 PM
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David
Thanks for the info. There are so many rumors floating around out there it is good to get some clarity. I am in favor of the ACC staying together, fix the problems, be on the offensive and work toward adding at least a couple of teams on our on. Expanding the ACC footprint would be a good goal. If we could fix the financial situation then ND might be interested. They are already in the ACC in other sports. I'm sure there are other targets. Lest do some snatching of our on.
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110%er [6895]
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Who wants to join a conference that has a member
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Aug 3, 2023, 12:52 PM
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currently and publicly pitching a hissy fit?
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Orange Blooded [2634]
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Re: Who wants to join a conference that has a member
Aug 4, 2023, 7:26 AM
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Exactly. The right time to add ND already passed. ACC missed their window on that and also for continued agressive expansion to preserve and compete. They’ll pay for being idle since their last expansion.
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CU Medallion [52440]
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Re: TNET: Clemson, the ACC, and conference realignment: What happens next?
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Aug 3, 2023, 12:50 PM
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As always, thank you, David, for your excellent and honest reporting. I have always believed that Clemson was silently at work. I know from experience that they do not announce anything (not just in athletics) until they have something in hand (so to speak).
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110%er [5711]
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Re: TNET: Clemson, the ACC, and conference realignment: What happens next?
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Aug 3, 2023, 12:57 PM
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Thanks for the info David. My concern is ESPN likes us in the ACC and wants the ACC to stay in place. SEC seems content at 16. The only way I see us getting in the SEC is if BIG10 comes after us and FSU causing ESPN either to raise the payouts to ACC or ESPN gets SEC to invite 4 or so ACC teams which hopefully includes us.
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CU Medallion [55430]
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Re: TNET: Clemson, the ACC, and conference realignment: What happens next?
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Aug 3, 2023, 3:18 PM
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The SEC don't give a crap about the BIG coming after us or FSU bc they already a TV market in SC and Fla with the coots and the Gators. It's new TV markets that they're not in, and that's what they will be looking for!!!
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CU Medallion [52440]
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Re: TNET: Clemson, the ACC, and conference realignment: What happens next?
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Aug 3, 2023, 3:40 PM
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Conferences look for overall viewership/ratings (including streaming), not just TV markets. If you want to talk TV markets, Columbia is a small market compared to Clemson's Greenville/Spartanburg/Anderson/Asheville. It reaches three states--SC, NC, and GA.
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Scout Team [166]
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Re: TNET: Clemson, the ACC, and conference realignment: What happens next?
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Aug 3, 2023, 1:06 PM
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I would prefer to move to the SEC, but when we move to a 12 team NCAA playoff and conference champions are given an automatic playoff invitation is that worth staying in the ACC?
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110%er [6895]
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Yes, you may get there every year, but after several years of
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Aug 3, 2023, 1:16 PM
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this revenue gap, you will get your brains beat out when you get there. Where’s the fun in that?
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Mascot [23]
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Re: Clemson in the Big10 makes no sense
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Aug 3, 2023, 1:15 PM
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This goes beyond football and the idea of Clemson in the Big10 makes zero sense. Think of the impact that this would have on smaller, non-revenue sports trying to compete within the conference. Do we want programs like soccer, softball, tennis, etc.. having to travel to Minnesota, Wisconsin or So Cal for mid-week conference games or weekend tournaments? How does that benefit the "student athlete", or does that concept even exist at any level anymore? Like many, I would certainly miss the old ACC, but if Clemson is going to jump, the SEC is a much better fit overall.
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CU Medallion [55430]
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Re: Clemson in the Big10 makes no sense
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Aug 3, 2023, 4:46 PM
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I don't think the Big would be a good fit for Clemson either, but the ones that love the idea, they love it for the very same reason they love the ACC, academics. I'm a believer that sports and academics go well with each other, but not when our teams have to travel all over the country with away games, to me personally, that doesn't make good sense!!!
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Orange Blooded [4096]
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Clemson, FSU to the SEC, ACC backfills with
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Aug 3, 2023, 1:16 PM
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Coastal Carolina and Old Dominion University. I had “several” beers with my neighbor and we agree that makes the most sense. Both schools are real close to an Atlantic Coast beach.
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CU Medallion [55430]
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Re: Clemson, FSU to the SEC, ACC backfills with
Aug 3, 2023, 4:50 PM
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CU Guru [1695]
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Re: TNET: Clemson, the ACC, and conference realignment: What happens next?
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Aug 3, 2023, 1:23 PM
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As always thank you David for this informative items. I am it took some talking to people to get this information. Interesting to see how this unfolds in the future.
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Orange Blooded [2483]
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Re: TNET: Clemson, the ACC, and conference realignment: What happens next?
Aug 3, 2023, 1:43 PM
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I'm so glad we have a supportive President and BOT. It didn't seem that way when I was in school.
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All-TigerNet [10824]
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Re: TNET: Clemson, the ACC, and conference realignment: What happens next?
Aug 3, 2023, 1:53 PM
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Max Lennon?
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110%er [6895]
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Max Lennon was the debil!***
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Aug 3, 2023, 1:59 PM
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All-TigerNet [10824]
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Re: Max Lennon was the debil!***
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Aug 3, 2023, 2:06 PM
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Wasn't he the genius who thought the university could not be strong academically and athletically at the same time? Hence, Danny had to go.
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Orange Blooded [2595]
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Re: Max Lennon was the debil!***
Aug 3, 2023, 9:38 PM
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He was the president when I was at Clemson
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All-Pro [689]
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Re: TNET: Clemson, the ACC, and conference realignment: What happens next?
Aug 3, 2023, 3:28 PM
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Suppose the ACC just dissolved itself then created a new conference, possibly with the same schools there now, maybe not. Anyway, wouldn't that get them out from under the GOR and give them the ability to renegotiate a contract? Just wondering.
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Associate AD [828]
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Re: TNET: Clemson, the ACC, and conference realignment: What happens next?
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Aug 3, 2023, 4:50 PM
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If they dissolved the conference for the sole purpose of voiding the media contract in order to get a new one, Disney would sue all the schools in the conference for breach of contract.
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All-American [552]
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Re: TNET: Clemson, the ACC, and conference realignment: What happens next?
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Aug 3, 2023, 3:54 PM
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All you had was conjecture-no answers.
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Associate AD [828]
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No ACC schools are joining the SEC
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Aug 3, 2023, 4:11 PM
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Setting aside the GOR, ESPN already owns the ACC. They have no interest paying more money to ACC teams. And if they don't want to pay more money to ACC teams, the SEC isn't adding those teams. The SEC couldn't even get more money from ESPN to increase from eight to nine conference games.
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CU Medallion [55430]
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Re: No ACC schools are joining the SEC
Aug 3, 2023, 5:19 PM
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I absolutely hate it that ESECPN almost controls everything that happens with college sports, and its them who decides what teams get noon or prime time play time. They make it seem that ESECPN controls almost everything that happens with college sports.
ESECPN are the ones that has brain washed kids that the SEC team players are better athletes bc they have this thing about SEC players being bigger, stronger, and faster, and that SEC players have a better chance of getting to the NFL from the SEC, and the real truth is that NFL scouts will find the very best NFL prospects regardless of where they play college sports. Another truth is that a lot of great NFL players have come from the ACC, Nuk, Trevor, DW4, ETN are just a few of the youngest NFL players and they come from the ACC through Clemson, and that's just a few with many more coming from other ACC schools,. and that's even with ESECPN doing everything possible to push those types of players to the SEC
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Walk-On [141]
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I understand that the currents are shifting and changing
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Aug 3, 2023, 6:09 PM
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Change is part of life. That doesn’t mean I have to like it. I have a hard time believing Clemson won’t be just fine when all this shakes out.
College athletics in general, however, is heading in a dangerous direction in my opinion. I love the traditions, the rivalries, and the amateur athletes.
The more this moves to a pro sports model, the less I think I’m interested.
Paying players, transfer portals, new super conferences…ugh. None of that fires me up.
I stopped watching pro sports a few years ago! We will see where all this goes…
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110%er [6474]
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Re: TNET: Clemson, the ACC, and conference realignment: What happens next?
Aug 3, 2023, 6:16 PM
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It has come to the point that the ACC is holding at least 4 schools hostage. Screw the ACC. The conference is behaving like a terrorist. The greedy buzzards want to make the good programs die on a sinking ship. Screw the ACC!
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Hall of Famer [22350]
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Thanks, David
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Aug 3, 2023, 8:48 PM
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Most internet media down here in Nole Land agree with everything you say, except one. Most are saying that they think FSU has a landing spot and the meeting this week would never have occurred, especially not the very forceful words of the president and every member of the board if they didn't already know the final outcome.
"Stakes are way too high for them to be bluffing at this point" is the common belief down here.
As for when it will happen - will FSU make a statement before 8/15 saying they are leaving? - no one is certain. Some think they will; others say no, but it will be made before next August.
Everyone is in agreement that Clemson and FSU are in complete lockstep and in it together now and for the long haul.
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Trainer [30]
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Re: TNET: Clemson, the ACC, and conference realignment: What happens next?
Aug 3, 2023, 9:01 PM
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If you have not watched the YouTube video- “The voice of college football” - The episode is title “the big ten realignment plan live show”.
Great information. It is long but Worth it.
This is not about a foot print. It is about TV views and revenue.
Clemson and FSU average 4 million views per game no matter who they play. The adds $$ to the networks. CBS, NBC and Fox. ESPN might be an after thought when they sold by Disney.
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Recruit [83]
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Re: TNET: Clemson, the ACC, and conference realignment: What happens next?
Aug 3, 2023, 11:55 PM
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I really boils down to : Will ESPN pay the extra $ required to keep the existing schools at or above what they are currently receiving? They weren’t willing to pay extra for the 9th conference game, so who knows.
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Orange Blooded [4820]
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Re: TNET: Clemson, the ACC, and conference realignment: What happens next?
Aug 3, 2023, 9:52 PM
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Thanks for rational update. However, it’s more of the same and that doesn’t make me feel optimistic. I mean, how did the Clemson admin ever agree to the rotten ACC deal while it was being formulated? I’m sure we were told they wer “on top of it” then too…
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Head Coach [772]
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David, I really like you but
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Aug 3, 2023, 10:52 PM
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you have been all over the board on this topic for well over a year! I remember some time in the past 9-12 months when you said you were getting intel and you were almost sure we’d be getting news of Clemson exiting the ACC, in that particular month (again, that was well over 6 months ago). That time has long come & gone and now you’re saying you don’t think anything will change any time soon. With that kind of flip flopping on a major story, I’m not sure why your reporting should be taken very seriously…Sorry, but you need better sources !
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110%er [7238]
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For the love of all that is sane
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Aug 4, 2023, 1:05 AM
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Please choose wisely who you receive updates from. If it doesn't come from TNET staff, then it's probably horse hockey. However, some folks are taking what Bobby Dirkens says and holding it as the gospel truth. Again, choose wisely and for the sake of all our sanity, please don't spread false rumors until you know for sure from a validated source.
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110%er [5013]
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Bobby tends to be correct on most of his takes
Aug 4, 2023, 3:32 AM
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Well Brian Knight
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110%er [5013]
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I appreciate that Clemson’s leadership assures us they…
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Aug 4, 2023, 2:49 AM
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Are going to do what is in the best interests for Clemson. Is this current leadership smarter and wiser than the leadership that signed the current GOR deal? The deal that apparently has no early termination stipulations and no way to amend or update the agreement over time as circumstances and market conditions change? I mean come on man, this is contract law 101. You sign any agreement that spans this long of a time horizon, you have to think about these things in that contract. 🤷♂️
So now we have to hope our AD, President and BOT this time around have a clue. Look, I am not just saying this about Clemson. FSU, Virginia, UNC, Miami… ALL of them need to look in the mirror and blame themselves. Blaming the ACC when these universities signed this thing is being disingenuous at best.
I’m praying we have smarter and wiser leadership in place now. 🙏🏻
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Orange Blooded [2634]
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Re: I appreciate that Clemson’s leadership assures us they…
Aug 4, 2023, 7:40 AM
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Agreed.
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All-TigerNet [10498]
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I can't shake the feeling that something bad will happen
Aug 4, 2023, 7:58 AM
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I pray I am wrong, but I just have a sense of foreboding about the whole situation. The era of the massive TV deals is over, which puts us in a precarious position. Oregon and Washington are rumored to be B1G targets but at a reduced revenue share due to the issue with networks having overpaid for the product. If that's the SEC offer to Clemson and FSU, then what's the point? If we are still going to face a massive revenue gap over time then how are we expected to compete?
Message was edited by: CTiger423®
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110%er [5013]
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It is possible, maybe unlikely, the confs will move to an…
Aug 4, 2023, 8:25 AM
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Uneven distribution model that rewards schools who invest in football and other revenue generating sports sufficiently enough to field a competitive and watched team on the field. If you are a team like Rutgers or Vandy, your payout is gonna be less than OSUs and UGAs payout. Not draconian lower but sufficiently enough that if you want more of the cut you will prioritize winning accordingly.
This is just my hunch as to where things may be headed long term. Either that or teams get booted who are chronic underperformers.
I think gone are the days of perpetual cellar dwellers getting equal pay outs as the big boys.
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All-TigerNet [10498]
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That's an interesting point
Aug 4, 2023, 9:32 AM
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There's no reason why Vandy should be getting the same payout as SCU or why SCU should be getting the same as Bama/Georgia. I do wonder if we'll see a tiered model within the conferences themselves. I doubt the conferences would voluntarily agree to this by majority vote but I could see ESPN/Fox saying "look, this is how it needs to be going forward" if you want your product on our networks/streaming.
Message was edited by: CTiger423®
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