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TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 10:30 AM
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Orange Blooded [∞]
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 10:37 AM
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TV schedule of some good CFB games today:
#4 Florida State @ Clemson
• #19 Colorado @ #10 Oregon
• #15 Ole Miss @ #13 Alabama
• #22 UCLA @ #11 Utah
• #14 Oregon St @ #21 Washington St
• #24 Iowa @ #7 Penn State
• #6 Ohio State @ #9 Notre Dame
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 10:45 AM
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According to VegasInsider, the money for bets on the game were at 92% FSU early in the week, but it's at a 55/45 split in FSU's favor now. The line is 2.5 in some places but 1.5 to FSU in the consensus currently.
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 11:30 AM
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Go Tigers
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 11:32 AM
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Come on Tony pull us through
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 11:36 AM
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Jonathan Weitz announced as Clemson's starting kicker on the board.
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 11:38 AM
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Andrew Mukuba announced as a starter at nickelback. Collin Sadler and Tristan Leigh both announced as starters at left tackle, so that might go up to kickoff. Mitchell Mayes there in place of Parks.
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 11:38 AM
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Tyler Brown announced in place of Antonio Williams starting.
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 11:46 AM
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Tracking for a 12:07 kickoff here.
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 12:04 PM
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Dabo is charged up today. Took the hat off around the 25 to try to pump up the crowd more.
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 12:05 PM
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FSU wins the toss and defers. Clemson ball to start out this afternoon.
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 12:08 PM
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Collin Sadler starting at left tackle.
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 12:12 PM
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Clemson short of the sticks on third and short and takes the offense off the field for 4th and 2 at the Clemson 44. After showing a possible fake formation, a delay of game is called and the punt trickles into the end zone for a touchback.
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 12:15 PM
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Mukuba is indeed starting.
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 12:15 PM
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Jones and Wiggins on the corners.
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 12:19 PM
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Travis' first down throw is off and right to Jalyn Phillips, who wasn't ready for the target.
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 12:20 PM
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Clemson defense swarms on second down to force a 3rd and 8 at the FSU 47...Crowd gets loud...And Travis' throw is broken up at the sticks by Mukuba.
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 12:21 PM
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Brown back to return punts and bobbles one at the Clemson 8 but holds on to the fair catch.
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 12:25 PM
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Nice catch for the conversion on third down by Beaux Collins. Ball was out before Collins knew about it and he saw it late and got it.
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 12:26 PM
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Personal foul on FSU moves Clemson to the Tiger 42.
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 12:29 PM
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Brown with the moves on the catch and Clemson is past midfield. A third down throw is knocked down and presents another decision...Offense staying out. Clemson timeout after winding the play clock down.
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 12:32 PM
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Two tight ends in for Clemson...Mafah easily through for the first down. To the FSU 45.
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 12:34 PM
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Pass interference called on Randall to bring back a big conversion to Briningstool. Randall did a little blocking out on the route to clear up Briningstool.
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 12:36 PM
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Shipley gets a lot of it back on the quick throw and sets up 3rd and 7...Klubnik finds Brown on the crossing route and to the FSU 17.
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 12:39 PM
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Jonathan Weitz on for his first FG attempt back from 30 yards out. It is...good. 3-0 Clemson, 1:47 1st.
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 12:42 PM
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Nothing doing for the FSU offense starting out its next drive and that sets up 3rd and 7...Death Valley crowd is charged up here. Jeremiah Trotter comes flying in for the sack to force a punt.
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 12:43 PM
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End 1st quarter, Clemson 3, Florida State 0. Tigers are set to get the ball back after an FSU punt from its 18.
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 12:47 PM
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A not-great FSU punt has Clemson starting at its 49.
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 12:49 PM
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Klubnik hits Mafah on third down to move the chains to the FSU 34.
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 12:49 PM
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Brown there over the middle but he's down after the catch that sends Clemson to the FSU 6.
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 12:50 PM
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Brown is after the play and walking back to the sidelines on his own.
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 12:50 PM
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Brown heads to the injury tent.
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 12:52 PM
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Hamp Greene on for Brown.
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 12:54 PM
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Third and goal at the 1 for Clemson...holding called on the errant pass to Briningstool to set up a new set of downs.
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 12:56 PM
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Brown out of the tent with his helmet on. And Klubnik punches in the score. Two-score lead for Clemson.
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 12:57 PM
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Weitz's first PAT of the 2023 season is good as well and it's 10-0 Clemson, 11:33 2nd QTR. Klubnik is 9/14 for 126 yards.
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 1:02 PM
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Travis' throw is just short of the yard needed and FSU keeps the offense out there on 4th down...Travis keeps it for the conversion.
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 1:04 PM
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Where is the comments section??
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 1:04 PM
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Call is upheld and FSU keeps the first down.
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 1:07 PM
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Travis is throwing darts and has FSU down to the Clemson 16.
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 1:10 PM
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Travis keeper sets up 3rd and goal at the Clemson 7...and Coleman comes up wide open for the TD over the middle.
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 1:13 PM
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10-7 #Clemson, 5:10 2nd. 13-play and 75-yard drive for the Seminoles. Looks like the fake either got Mickens too aggressive on Coleman or he thought he had help behind him to let Coleman go.
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 1:16 PM
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Troy Stellato gets his name called on the conversion over the middle.
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 1:17 PM
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Stellato there again and Clemson is past midfield.
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 1:18 PM
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Briningstool comes wide open down the sidelines and Clemson is in the red zone.
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 1:20 PM
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Klubnik hits Shipley over the middle and it's a two-score Clemson lead again.
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 1:21 PM
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#Clemson 17, FSU 7, 2:12 2nd. Klubnik leads a 7-play and 71-yard drive capped by the 10-yard TD pass to Shipley. He is 13/18 for 190 yards now.
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 1:26 PM
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Travis on the move and finds Coleman for a big pass play to the Clemson 26.
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 1:27 PM
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Pass interference call on Jones moves the ball to the Clemson 13.
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 1:29 PM
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Travis punches in the score from a yard and it's a one-score game again.
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 1:30 PM
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:22 2nd QTR, 17-14 Clemson. FSU goes 75 yards in five plays over 1:50.
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 1:33 PM
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Half: Clemson 17, No. 4 Florida State 14. Leading receivers Coleman and Brown each had 62 yards.
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 1:35 PM
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Swinney told ESPN that the Tigers are fortunate to have the lead. He said they can't continue to rush Jordan Travis with three guys, calling that the worst thing he saw in the half.
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 1:35 PM
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Wes Goodwin gonna have to apply pressure in 2nd. Three man rush was terrible call on last drive
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 1:39 PM
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Wes Goodwin gonna have to apply pressure in 2nd. Three man rush was terrible call on last drive
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 1:51 PM
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FSU gets the ball out of the half. ESPN's win probability metric gives Clemson a 56.5% chance to win this thing out of the half. It was at 75% before the quick FSU scoring drive.
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 1:55 PM
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Clemson comes out of the half with Khalil Barnes starting in a nickel look and FSU hits a big passing play to Wilson to the Clemson 34.
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 1:56 PM
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Wilson went to the sidelines after the catch and hasn't come back yet.
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 1:58 PM
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FSU goes for it on 4th and 1 and gets it, but there are flags on the play. Illegal formation called to move it back.
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 1:59 PM
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FSU going for the tie from 48 yards out...and it's good. 17-all, 12:00 3rd.
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 2:03 PM
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Randall fights off an FSU defender for the 12-yard catch to move the chains.
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 2:05 PM
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FSU breaks up the third down pass and Clemson has to punt on its first possession.
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 2:12 PM
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TJ Parker with the TFL and another run stop sets up 3rd and 11 for FSU...offsides sets up another third down try.
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 2:13 PM
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Clemson brings the pressure and Travis' third-down loft goes incomplete. Thomas got the hit on Travis at the end.
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 2:13 PM
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Hamp Greene back on punts and notches the fair catch at the Clemson 23.
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 2:15 PM
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Klubnik with a big keeper into FSU territory.
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 2:17 PM
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Klubnik hits Stellato for another conversion and Clemson's at the FSU 34.
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 2:19 PM
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Facemask call has Clemson in the red zone with a first down at the FSU 14.
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 2:19 PM
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Klubnik is nailed but he gets the throw off to Briningstool over the middle to get to the FSU 1.
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 2:21 PM
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Will Shipley punches in the score and Clemson leads again.
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 2:22 PM
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Shipley caps an 11-play and 77-yard drive to make it 24-17 Clemson over No. 4 FSU. 3:32 3rd.
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 2:29 PM
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Clemson stuffs the 2nd and medium run to set up 3rd and 6...Travis' third down throw is off and FSU has to punt.
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 2:31 PM
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Mafah with a huge run to the FSU 29.
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 2:32 PM
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Klubnik is rocked and FSU returns the fumble for a TD. About to be tied up.
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 2:33 PM
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All tied at 24, 1:54 3rd.
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 2:35 PM
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FSU's DeLoach with the hit and the TD return. :31 seconds left in the third quarter actually.
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 2:37 PM
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Shipley trucks an FSU defender for a first down on a 16-yard carry and that'll take us into the 4th quarter. 24-all, Clemson ball at its 42.
Message was edited by: BrandonRink®
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 2:39 PM
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Clemson's win probability chances are at 55% per ESPN currently.
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null [null]
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 2:41 PM
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Where is the Message Board?????????????
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 2:43 PM
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Clemson will have to punt after the reception four yards short of converting. FSU pinned to its 13 with 13:31 to go.
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 2:44 PM
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Travis finds his RB Benson for a big play to the FSU 42.
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
1
Sep 23, 2023, 2:46 PM
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An incompletion and run stalled sets up 3rd and 10 for FSU...Travis' completion is well short of the sticks and FSU will have to punt.
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 2:47 PM
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FSU pins Clemson to the 3 as the punt just drops and rolls back a yard or so. 11:08 to go, 24-all.
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 2:52 PM
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Mafah does some hurdling on the third down catch conversion. To the Clemson 20 now.
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 2:54 PM
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3rd and 15 for Clemson at the 15...the Klubnik throw is complete but well short of the conversion. Clemson to punt.
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 2:55 PM
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62-yard punt flips the field and has FSU starting its drive at the 18.
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 3:01 PM
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Two Travis throws are off the mark to set up 3rd and 10...Penalty makes it 3rd and 19 then at the FSU 9...Clemson calls a timeout with 7:57 to go.
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 3:04 PM
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No room to run for Travis and FSU will punt from its 7 with about 7 to go.
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 3:05 PM
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Greene fields a big FSU punt and takes it to the Clemson 44. 7:03 to go.
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 3:08 PM
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Klubnik drops the ball for a TFL to set up 3rd and 6...pass interference called on FSU to extend the drive. Ball to the FSU 40 with 6 to go.
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 3:09 PM
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Klubnik took a second but he's up after the run to the FSU 32.
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 3:15 PM
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3rd and 6 at the FSU 25...Klubnik hits Brown over the middle and the Tigers are in the red zone.
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 3:17 PM
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3rd and 10 for the Tigers at the 12 with 1:55 to go. FSU has all three timeouts left.
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 3:17 PM
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Klubnik with the keeper that goes nowhere to set up the FG. FSU timeout, 1:49 to go.
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 3:19 PM
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Weitz back out for his second FG attempt of the day from 30 yards out...it is no good.
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 3:20 PM
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Big passing play out of the gates to Wilson to the FSU 45.
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 3:21 PM
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FSU conversion to the Clemson 40 with 43 secs left.
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 3:23 PM
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Clemson DBs making things difficult for Travis and it's 3rd and 10 now.
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 3:24 PM
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Wiggins breaks up the connection to Wilson and it's 4th and long from the 39 with 18 secs left. Offense staying out.
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 3:24 PM
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Clemson timeout
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 3:26 PM
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Pass is broken up and Clemson takes over with 12 seconds left. Wiggins still down after the downfield throw.
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 3:27 PM
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Wiggins being helped off the field so that's probably his day if he do go to OT.
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 3:28 PM
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Going to OT, tied at 24.
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 3:30 PM
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Clemson wins the toss and will go on defense first.
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 3:33 PM
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Travis hits Keon Coleman for the 24-yard TD pass and FSU takes the first lead of OT, 31-24.
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 3:35 PM
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Shipley carry sets up third and very short...the quick throw is behind the LOS and loses yards. 4th and 2 now for the game.
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 3:36 PM
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Final: No. 4 FSU 31, Clemson 24. Klubnik's throw is far wide of Collins on fourth and 2.
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 3:37 PM
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Clemson plays next at 4-0 Syracuse next Saturday at noon on ABC.
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CU Guru [1277]
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 3:41 PM
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L
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MVP [512]
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 3:42 PM
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That is ALL on coaching!!! Both sides of the ball!!!
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Tiger Cub [13]
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 3:44 PM
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1st and 10 at the 12 late in the fourth and very conservative play calling. Dabo and staff wanted to rely on a new kicker with very little experience. It’s time for a change I’m sorry but we can’t keep doing this in the future.
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Mascot [21]
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 3:45 PM
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100% COACHING AT END OF REGULATION AND ALL OF OVERTIME. Two stud running backs and 3rd and less than a yard??? Are you kidding me?!? Two plays to get less than a yard. No one in the stadium would have made those calls. Pathetic.
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Mascot [21]
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 3:45 PM
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100% COACHING AT END OF REGULATION AND ALL OF OVERTIME. Two stud running backs and 3rd and less than a yard??? Are you kidding me?!? Two plays to get less than a yard. No one in the stadium would have made those calls. Pathetic.
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Mascot [21]
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 3:45 PM
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100% COACHING AT END OF REGULATION AND ALL OF OVERTIME. Two stud running backs and 3rd and less than a yard??? Are you kidding me?!? Two plays to get less than a yard. No one in the stadium would have made those calls. Pathetic.
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Recruit [88]
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 3:49 PM
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We had it in our grasp and blew it. Kicking game again. Defense again. Poor management again.
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Tiger Cub [13]
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 3:51 PM
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Dabo said in Watson and Lawrence years that the best is yet to come. If this is the best then I don’t agree. He had Clemson ALL IN and thinking Best is the Standard. I watched an interview recently and now he is saying - if Clemson fans expect National Championships every year then there’s something wrong. It seems a very contradicting.
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MVP [512]
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 3:52 PM
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Is it me, or is Dabo constantly correcting Godwin... I'm not overly impressed with Riley so far either. We did some great things today, but I think the coaching let the boys down!!!
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Tiger Cub [13]
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Re: TNET: Live from Death Valley: Clemson vs. Florida State
Sep 23, 2023, 4:09 PM
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Dabo is a very stubborn - my way or the highway kind of guy. Dude!!! Wake up!!! The internal hires, lack of transfer portal, and keeping the same mentally overall is hurting this program. ALL IN to not evolve. Best is the Standard when it’s convenient. Best is yet to come - maybe after he realizes that change is ok.
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