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TNET: Final Grades: Another underwhelming year for Clemson's tight ends
Jan 20, 2022, 8:00 AM
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110%er [6401]
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Re: TNET: Final Grades: Another underwhelming year for Clemson's tight ends
Jan 20, 2022, 8:11 AM
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I keep seeing these PFF grades and can't help but think that Dabo was correct when he said "we weren't very good around him (DJ) as we have been in the past"
DJ has many holes in his game. But he really didn't have a lot of help this year either. Injuries were obviously a big reason. But even when we were healthy, his supporting cast was bad. Galloway had a drop rate of 33%, which is abysmal.
Thankfully, everyone is coming back. Now we just have to hope that Streeter, Spiller, Grisham, Richardson, and Austin can develop our players.
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Orange Blooded [3336]
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Re: TNET: Final Grades: Another underwhelming year for Clemson's tight ends
Jan 20, 2022, 8:26 AM
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Yeah, it was sadly the perfect storm for an abysmal year on the offense. Just thankful the running backs showed some growth, leadership, and had depth. Otherwise it would have been REALLY bad.
I do wonder when we will have a consistent threat at TE again. It's starting to feel like it's been a eternity now since Jordan Leggett was here.
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CU Guru [1345]
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Re: TNET: Final Grades: Another underwhelming year for Clemson's tight ends
Jan 20, 2022, 9:14 AM
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If they would just throw the ball to Davis Allen and Jake Briningstool more we would be successful at Tight End. I watched them all year, and they just don't get the ball! Both those guys can really catch, but you have to throw them the ball.
32 passes to both of them all year, ONE (1) Drop using your stats! 4 TD's and 275 yards? Less than 2.5 attempts per game over the season, with only ONE (1) Drop.
That is not even trying to throw to the Tight End!
One thing DJ5 could do pretty well, was hit a stationary target. Running curl routes to those two Tight Ends, or any Tight End to open Zone gaps would have been great. Puts the Tight End against a Linebacker instead of a safety, and it is an easy pass for DJ5. We did not use this to help DJ5 or our Tight End productivity. I love seeing the TE beat a safety down the seam for a 30 yard TD, but we needed to move the chains in 2021, and we almost never threw to the TE on second or third down to get a first down. With Renfrow and Rogers gone in the slot, the TE's should have picked up the slack particularly on third down, and I blame that on coaching play calls!
Galloway was a disappointment (again), but I would like to see him be successful at Clemson or elsewhere. I think he can play another year, but I don't know what he will be doing.
Go Tigers! Wreck Tech!
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110%er [5166]
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Re: TNET: Final Grades: Another underwhelming year for Clemson's tight ends
Jan 20, 2022, 9:48 AM
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I agree, I just wonder if the problem is they aren't targeted enough.
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110%er [6401]
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Re: TNET: Final Grades: Another underwhelming year for Clemson's tight ends
Jan 20, 2022, 9:40 AM
[ in reply to Re: TNET: Final Grades: Another underwhelming year for Clemson's tight ends ] |
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Our running game will be lethal next year, assuming we don't have as many injuries. It would be hard not to get better when we return all 5 starting offensive linemen and three freshmen RBs.
Still, our issue will be at WR. We desperately need someone to emerge in the slot. And we need someone to emerge as a speed threat on screens/underneath throws. It sounds like we'll be relying on Brannon Spector, Will Taylor, Troy Stellato, and Antonio Williams to be those WRs. Doesn't sound as lethal as Amari Rodgers and Hunter Renfrow, unfortunately.
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Varsity [236]
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Re: TNET: Final Grades: Another underwhelming year for Clemson's tight ends
Jan 20, 2022, 2:59 PM
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No receiver is going to emerge unless we have a QB change. Sorry for the negativity but we’ve been over this countless times on this board. Removing the drops and even the hurried passes, DJ’s stats were STILL abysmal. Way too many high passes to wide open receivers.
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110%er [6401]
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Re: TNET: Final Grades: Another underwhelming year for Clemson's tight ends
Jan 20, 2022, 3:36 PM
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I completely disagree. I saw what happened when DJ was surrounded by vertical threats at WR (EJ, Cornell, and Amari), WRs that were effective in screens and on underneath throws (Cornell and Amari), a WR that was a threat in the slot (Amari), and a RB that was a threat in the passing game (Etienne).
DJ looked great when he had those weapons around him. We had diverse weapons last year and he thrived. It's much more difficult for defenses when they have to respect all aspects of an offense. Etienne demanded respect in the running game and teams had to dedicate a safety/CB to guard him out of the backfield. Defenses couldn't play two high safeties all game and expect to shut down Amari, Cornell, and Etienne in underneath throws. Likewise, teams had to respect our vertical passing game because we had a jump ball guy (EJ) with speed threats (Cornell and Amari) that could beat them deep.
This year, DJ only had 6'4 WRs that couldn't stay healthy (Ross, Ngata, Ladson, EJ) coupled with freshmen RBs that weren't nearly the threat in the passing game that Etienne was. Defenses could get away with playing two high safeties all game because none of our RBs were as scary as Etienne was. Defenses also got away with playing two high safeties all game because we didn't have diversity at WR. We didn't have a screen threat. We didn't have a threat in the slot. Our offense consisted of WRs that were only good in the vertical passing game. Ross, Ngata, Ladson, and EJ are big bodies that struggle creating early separation. It was easy for defenses to take away vertical threats because they could play 2-man and Cover 4, and make our 6'4 WRs beat them in the short passing game.
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Legend [17739]
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Re: TNET: Final Grades: Another underwhelming year for Clemson's tight ends
Jan 21, 2022, 12:14 AM
[ in reply to Re: TNET: Final Grades: Another underwhelming year for Clemson's tight ends ] |
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DW4 and TL16 could throw to anyone anywhere anytime. They were special as Gronk likes to say.
LT makes a fair point about receiver talent but coaches did not adapt in 2021. Allen, Ngata, Ross and one or two others could catch. But as another poster fairly stated, DJ was better with stationary targets. Not ideal but adapt already. But the majority of problems on offense was rooted in a complete coaching and receiver loss of confidence in the QB position. J. Ross wanted none of that.
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Freshman [-99]
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Both of you guys need to do your homework.
Jan 20, 2022, 1:44 PM
[ in reply to Re: TNET: Final Grades: Another underwhelming year for Clemson's tight ends ] |
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I suggest both of you go back to the 2020 season and watch the two games DJ started.
Everyone got excited because we won those two games and he threw for a bunch of yards. But if you actually watch his overall play, he has a lot of weaknesses!
First, the guy is slow. And don’t give me this injury crap. I have seen nothing that says he is fast quick or anything of that nature. He was good running in high school because he is big and strong and he was on one of the best teams in the country.
Second, the guy couldn’t run the RPO if his life depended on it. He can’t even run basic pitch sweeps and every time he hands the ball off it’s an adventure. Remember twice when he put the ball on the ground trying to hand off to ETN?! The second the ball is in his hands it’s obvious he’s gonna pitch or hand it off. That takes away a huge part of our offense.
Third, he has accuracy issues. And don’t give me all this dropped passes BS. Even when you add in the drops he’s been the worst quarterback at Clemson in years. Even adding in the drops his numbers are still worst in the ACC and at the very bottom nationally.
Fourth, he rarely looks away from his main receiver. He stares the guy down almost every time.
Bottom line, he doesn’t process well, has a lot of issues in his game, and he’s not a fit for our offense. He looked like a perfect fit in high school, but it has not translated at the elite level of college football. Numerous announcers during the season pointed out his flaws and issues. These are guys that played in the NFL and know the difference between a QB issue and larger and more systemic issues.
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CU Guru [1257]
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Re: Both of you guys need to do your homework.
Jan 21, 2022, 5:36 AM
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I agree with almost everything. 'cept we lost to Notre Dame. I watched some of his high school games. He lost 2 out of 3 to his rival powerhouse. Finally beat them his senior year. Big Stinko as I have called him, is a grave disappointment, but worry not Tiger nation. Cade is on campus and ready to fill the void.
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Re: TNET: Final Grades: Another underwhelming year for Clemson's tight ends
Jan 20, 2022, 8:54 AM
[ in reply to Re: TNET: Final Grades: Another underwhelming year for Clemson's tight ends ] |
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With only 4 catches for Galloway a 33% drop rate means that he dropped 2 balls. Not a good rate but absolutely no chance to recover.
With 10 targets, that also means that he was not expected to catch 40% of the passes thrown to him. Think about that figure.
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CU Guru [1868]
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Re: TNET: Final Grades: Another underwhelming year for Clemson's tight ends
Jan 20, 2022, 9:01 AM
[ in reply to Re: TNET: Final Grades: Another underwhelming year for Clemson's tight ends ] |
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And hope that we have a couple quarterbacks that are serviceable. Hard to win when the opposing qb outplays yours every game. Credit staff and the level of talent at other positions that this team won 10 games
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CU Medallion [64621]
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As bad as the OL was...
Jan 20, 2022, 8:14 AM
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it's hard to incorporate the TE's into the game plan when they are needed to block.
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MVP [541]
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Re: TNET: Final Grades: Another underwhelming year for Clemson's tight ends
Jan 20, 2022, 8:15 AM
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So, is Galloway in the portal? Staying? Off to NFL? I've Googled him but only saw one blurb on a subscription site that maybe he's gone...but I can't find definitive answers anywhere.
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CU Medallion [65941]
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Briningstool saw the field sparingly, but even with that
Jan 20, 2022, 8:24 AM
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limited sample, you could tell he is a pretty good athlete in a tight end's body. He MUST be integrated into the offense more this coming season. Why? Because, if we don't get him on the field, it will be another case of "Rico's time is NOW!" This abominable transfer portal will have all us fans running scared of losing all our new talent if they don't immediately see the field. Not a good situation for us, or college football in general to be in.
It will be this coming year, or the year after, before the "full" effects of all this wholesale moving around are felt. It'll be just like baseball was when free agency first happened, "You can't tell who the players are without a program." Only worse, because in MLB, very few players move EVERY year. That potential is there in this current iteration of the transfer portal.
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Orange Blooded [2248]
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Re: TNET: Final Grades: Another underwhelming year for Clemson's tight ends
Jan 20, 2022, 8:24 AM
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It almost seems to me that the TE's should have had a grade of incomplete. With only 36 catches for 304 yards and relatively poor blocking stats by PFF it is hard to warrant a C, but I question how much of their lack of success was their own doing. Looking forward to seeing what changes are made next year.
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All-American [590]
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Remember who was also "primed for a big sophomore season"?
Jan 20, 2022, 8:30 AM
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Braden Galloway
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CU Guru [1868]
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Re: Remember who was also "primed for a big sophomore season"?
Jan 20, 2022, 8:53 AM
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Pretty sure he was suspended for ostarine heading into his sophomore season
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Orange Blooded [4016]
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Re: TNET: Final Grades: Another underwhelming year for Clemson's tight ends
Jan 20, 2022, 8:55 AM
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Surely wasn't the TE's fault. Davis Allen and Bringinstool could be wreck havoc and be mismatch nightmares if they were actually used right. Look what GA did with their TE's, one being a freshman. It just mind boggles me that every time we ran that seam route down the middle with one, they were wide open for a big game, yet we'd call it maybe 2 or 3 times a season.
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CU Guru [1345]
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Re: TNET: Final Grades: Another underwhelming year for Clemson's tight ends
Jan 20, 2022, 9:19 AM
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Totally Agree!
Go Tigers, throw some more to the TE in 2022!
We spent the season trying to throw to the wide outs?
Play calling will be a key in 2022.....
Go Tigers!
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110%er [6977]
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Might help if we used them more!!!***
Jan 20, 2022, 9:02 AM
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110%er [9339]
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we have tight ends?***
Jan 20, 2022, 9:26 AM
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Head Coach [780]
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Re: we have tight ends?***
Jan 20, 2022, 9:33 AM
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When we needed Davis Allen he showed up big...with no QB to throw the ball he had to survive with leftovers and no gravy! When our Quarterback/Punter needed a big catch on 4th down Davis came through even though he was triple covered! Your computer is a piece of crap if you don't know how to use it!
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MVP [546]
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Re: TNET: Final Grades: Another underwhelming year for Clemson's tight ends
Jan 20, 2022, 10:46 AM
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I don't know if it is coaching, scheme or players but whatever it is, it has not been working lately as we all know. While it might be true that "when Clemson wide receivers are dominant...." that has not happened since 2018 so indeed we DO need to use the tight end as a weapon. I think we can all agree on that. I haven't looked closely but I'll go out on a limb and suggest that every NFL team still alive has as SOLID tight end as part of their package even with the receivers they have. You have to be able to attack all over the field if you want to be successful against the best.
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110%er [8575]
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Re: TNET: Final Grades: Another underwhelming year for Clemson's tight ends
Jan 20, 2022, 10:53 AM
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Sadly, we have not recruited well at this most important position.
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Commissioner [938]
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Re: TNET: Final Grades: Another underwhelming year for Clemson's tight ends
Jan 20, 2022, 11:18 AM
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I think the grade on Allen is a bit harsh. Perhaps his performance during the earlier part of the year was underwhelming, but late in the year, when the offense started showing some life, Allen was the main target, along with Beaux Collins. Briningstool did well enough. It was a disappointing year, overall, for the offense, but relative to the rest of the offensive production, the TE's, particularly Allen, were some of the few bright spots.
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110%er [6687]
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Betcha Braden Galloway wishes he stuck with BB like his Bro?
Jan 20, 2022, 11:42 AM
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He looked like the new "Riggins" for a while, what happened? Injuries?
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110%er [6687]
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How many times was Davis targeted in corner of endzone?
Jan 20, 2022, 11:48 AM
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I only remember once, and he caught it for TD. I don't understand why that was not used more often? I thought for sure Streeter would write it in for Bowl. Very disappointing!
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Freshman [-99]
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The problem is not our TE’s
Jan 20, 2022, 1:50 PM
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The problem is in our playcalling!
We actually have some guys that are pretty darn good at TE. We need to throw across the middle more and we need to utilize that position much much more!
Not only that, if we used that position better in practice our defense might get a lot better at covering the TE. That has been A weak spot with our defense. Teams utilized a TE pretty well against us. Watch the NFL and other elite teams in college. The TE is a huge weapon! Yet, like the portal, we seem to be content to let other people do what works, but ignore it ourselves.
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Orange Blooded [3460]
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Re: The problem is not our TE’s
Jan 20, 2022, 5:12 PM
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IMO using the TEs more effectively last season would've increased offense efficiency by taking some defensive focus from the WRs loosening their coverage. Might have added another win to the ledger at NCSU. There were just two games they had more than two catches and two where they had none. One was when the number one TE recruit visited. That still boggles my mind. Way to show the guy how much he was needed Tony.
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Varsity [236]
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Re: TNET: Final Grades: Another underwhelming year for Clemson's tight ends
Jan 20, 2022, 2:52 PM
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Davis Allen will usually catch the ball and a good blocker…..you got to have a QB that can get the ball close enough to catch?????
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110%er [5397]
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2 changes that ought to improve this position
Jan 20, 2022, 5:22 PM
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Elliot gone-- as a play caller and the TE coach
Streeter hopefully recognizing & utilizing this important element of offense
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Legend [15548]
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Re: 2 changes that ought to improve this position
Jan 21, 2022, 8:47 AM
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I agree with you on both points. We'll see this year if TE was the problem, and I suspect he was most of the time.
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110%er [7169]
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Final Grades:Tony Elliott play calling underwhelming.
Jan 20, 2022, 5:38 PM
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Fixed the headline for you TNET. Our tightends weren't the underwhelmers. But you knew that already.
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Orange Blooded [2637]
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Re: Final Grades:Tony Elliott play calling underwhelming.
Jan 21, 2022, 7:33 AM
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Bingo. Unfortunately, Streeter showed signs of being a carbon copy. We may be in the doldrums for a while. Hope not. Hope it was just a transition game. I guess we’ll see.
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Legend [15548]
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110%er [9015]
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What a rude title.
Jan 21, 2022, 8:48 AM
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Who the heck is Ryan Kantor, and what are his qualifications?
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Recruit [88]
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Re: TNET: Final Grades: Another underwhelming year for Clemson's tight ends
Jan 21, 2022, 9:24 AM
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I agree with the poster who commented that Allen made a big time play that when he caught Spier’s pass. A great play-excellent hands and concentration when the game was on the line. I think he deserves some credit for that catch alone, if not others.
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All-In [48860]
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Re: TNET: Final Grades: Another underwhelming year for Clemson's tight ends
Jan 21, 2022, 1:40 PM
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Agree. Thought there were some really good comments throughout the thread. @leon, soc, valley boy - who said we haven't recruited well. And lowcountry... All good points and Ryan also. Definitely disagree with the title but can see his point.
Obviously Dabo is off limits but he spent all off season singing praises for Elliott and j lay at tight end and even proclaimed they would be a strength in 21. We've recruited bad at the position. Any shock why Delp didn't come here. These recruits watch the games and see who's playing and their involvement... Or lack thereof.
Lay was ranked as 4th best TE, Ennis as 8th, so these guys were poorly evaluated and all were misses, bad character etc or they're just not being developed. Same with oline. Guys come in rated pretty good, but seem to regress during their career. One could conclude there's a development problem. Don't think for a minute this isn't being shoved down their throat by every coach recruiting against us.
Did we not miss on every 1st and 2nd TE option this year. I hate the coots as much as any, but according to this same service, PFF, coots have two top 7 te transfers rated by pff. Seemed like a portal option this year to pick up a TE, a linebacker, and a corner along with an interior olineman.
Message was edited by: Clemgalalways®
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Trainer [35]
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Re: TNET: Final Grades: Another underwhelming year for Clemson's tight ends
Jan 22, 2022, 2:15 PM
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So all of the pass catchers, whether WRs or TEs, were really bad this year. Sure, injuries were a problem, but it seemed clear to me that they had lost confidence in DJ's ability to consistently get the ball to them. Lawrence was left with just Amari and Cornell (not exactly elite) and some freshmen, and he still was successful completing passes. DJ's mechanics are a mess, he struggles to make more than one read, his location is all over the place, and he throws a wobbly fastball you couldn't call "catchable". It's also hard to consistently catch the ball when you're not confident where the pass is going to be... which was too often either a foot off the ground, a foot over your head or in a different zip code. With a different QB situation, I think Justin Ross would have returned for another year rather than settle for a 2nd-round NFL grade. Bottom line: I absolutely love DJ the young man, but unless his abilities and performance are somehow transformed into the polar opposite of last season's, only a QB change is going to improve the performance of the Tiger's receiving corp.
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