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TigerNet Immortal [168578]
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Moar NIL. New NIL subdivision?
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Dec 5, 2023, 11:07 AM
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NCAA President calling for a subdivision of schools willing to pay players directly. (Commit is $30k per year per player for at least half the team, minimum).
This is where we make the haves vs have nots formal and stop pretending. It’s also where CFB really becomes minor league NFL.
I would say that any player in this subdivision getting these payments should also have free tuition and housing removed from the deal. They can do the math and decide which is more valuable to them, but they are basically university employees at that point. They also should be made to sign contracts, since the money is coming directly from the school.
https://theathletic.com/5114092/2023/12/05/ncaa-subdivision-athlete-compensation-charlie-baker/?source=user_shared_article
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All-In [35541]
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Re: Moar NIL. New NIL subdivision?
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Dec 5, 2023, 11:26 AM
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At what point will NIL athletes stop having to attend classes? Circa 2011?
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TigerNet Immortal [168578]
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Honestly I was wondering at what point the concept of eligibility goes away
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Dec 5, 2023, 11:29 AM
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Players go back and forth between MLB and AAA or AA all the time.
Why should a player lose any remaining eligibility if they play in the NFL? What if a super-wealthy Deshaun Watson got tired of getting injured in the NFL and wanted to come play his final year at Clemson for a nice 7 figure NIL payout? Why does that matter at this point?
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Ultimate Tiger [36095]
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I think you have to consider physical growth though.
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Dec 5, 2023, 12:05 PM
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Imagine Derrick Henry coming back for another year and mowing down 19yo DBs. He may actually kill them.
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TigerNet Immortal [168578]
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Maybe if he played in the Big South conference.***
Dec 5, 2023, 12:06 PM
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Ultimate Tiger [36269]
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Re: Moar NIL. New NIL subdivision?
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Dec 5, 2023, 11:27 AM
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Agreed.
At this point let’s include sponsors too, it’s basically set up just like pro soccer clubs or franchises already. Recruit young talent, sign them to contracts. Sell naming rights to the stadium, sell jersey sponsors, let’s just be realistic and accept the truth that college football has basically nothing to do with colleges anymore. In fact, the rules about how old someone has to be and how long they can play are the only things that don’t make sense now, so the NFL will probably need to financially support some of it if it’s going to remain just a feeder league. American Football, Inc.
Who doesn’t want to see a VERIZON or VOLVO patch on our uniforms playing at Death Valley at the American Airlines Memorial Stadium. The very fabric of the sport has been torn asunder by money.
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CU Medallion [19865]
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Thinking airlines dont want a MEMORIAL Stadium FWIW***
Dec 5, 2023, 11:48 AM
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Top TigerNet [30766]
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That's the way sports work in the rest of the world
Dec 5, 2023, 11:53 AM
[ in reply to Re: Moar NIL. New NIL subdivision? ] |
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College sports is such an alien thought anywhere outside of the US and maybe Canada.
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Game Day Hero [4265]
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Re: Moar NIL. New NIL subdivision?
Dec 5, 2023, 11:32 AM
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The Supreme Court will rule on whether athletes are state employees are not, which should clarify tuition/housing versus payment from the school. You’re either an employee getting paid by the school, or a student athlete getting benefits. Not both. My gut says that the Court will go the employee route, and the student athlete will die.
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Top TigerNet [28417]
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can anyone post the article text?
Dec 5, 2023, 11:34 AM
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so I can read and over react some more today on stuff I can't control
thanks for posting man
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TigerNet Immortal [168578]
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It's like $0.82/month brah, but here you go
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Dec 5, 2023, 11:36 AM
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NCAA proposes creation of new subdivision with direct compensation for athletes
NCAA president Charlie Baker on Tuesday proposed the creation of a new subdivision within Division I that would allow the highest-resource schools the ability to compensate athletes directly through a trust fund and direct name, image and likeness (NIL) payments.
The groundbreaking proposal was sent out to Division I members and obtained by The Athletic on Tuesday morning, and it included the following recommendations:
The formation of a new subdivision made up of institutions with the highest resources that can directly compensate athletes through an “enhanced educational trust fund,” which requires the schools that opt into it an investment of at least $30,000 per year per athlete for at least half of the school’s eligible athletes. Schools would have to adhere to Title IX, providing equal monetary opportunities to both female and male athletes. Schools in the new subdivision could create their own rules separate from the rest of D-I, and those rules would allow them the ability to address policies such as scholarship limits and roster size as well as transfers and NIL. Any Division I school would be able to enter into an NIL deal with its athletes directly, which is not currently permissible. Any Division I school would be able to distribute to any athlete funding related to educational benefits without any caps on such compensation. These recommendations from Baker come amid mounting pressure to allow schools to directly compensate their athletes, and as the NCAA is facing significant legal challenges to its model. In the letter to D-I members, Baker called his proposal a “forward-looking framework” that “gives the educational institutions with the most visibility, the most financial resources and the biggest brands an opportunity to choose to operate with a different set of rules that more accurately reflect their scale and their operating model.”
Schools in both Division I subdivisions would compete against one another for NCAA championships, except for in FBS football, which is run and governed by the College Football Playoff. It’s clear, though Baker doesn’t spell it out, that the highest-resourced schools he is referring to throughout the letter are those in the Power 4 leagues — the SEC, Big Ten, ACC and Big 12. Commissioners of the four schools have recently been lobbying Congress together, seeking help on issues such as NIL that affect their constituents in a far different way than their peers at lower levels of Division I.
The new proposed model “kick-starts a long-overdue conversation among the membership that focuses on the differences that exist between schools, conferences and divisions and how to create more permissive and flexible rules across the NCAA that put student-athletes first,” Baker wrote in the letter. “Colleges and universities need to be more flexible, and the NCAA needs to be more flexible, too.”
Presumably, this would be a subdivision within the FBS, similar to the oft-discussed power-conference split.
Baker ended his letter by asking Division I members for feedback.
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Top TigerNet [28417]
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we keep OpEx lean around here***
Dec 5, 2023, 11:42 AM
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Orange Phenom [14180]
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So... the NCAA is saying - all you big money schools go ahead and form your own
Dec 5, 2023, 11:42 AM
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league that is no longer managed by the NCAA and do whatever you want in regards to paying players and other league rules.
Meanwhile - for you lessor affluent schools - We, the NCAA, are going to continue to lord over you with our special brand of stupidity and take whatever profits we can from your sporting coffers as a way to prop up our bloated staffs and whimsical administration of college sports....
This proposal by the NCAA, IMO, is NOT the solution to college athletics....
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Top TigerNet [28417]
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I think a piece of it is, in theory only
Dec 5, 2023, 11:49 AM
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meaning, I think there needs to be a "premier league" of CFB teams, managed in part (maybe more advised) by the NFL, that competes within the same framework that the NFL does.
the only way I, or we, should support this, is that there must be relegation / promotion to this new league every year.
So say, top 32 teams in CFB Premier. Bottom 4 or 8 get relegated to CFB D-1 meh, top 4 or 8 get promoted. It can't be locked / written in stone.
I think this elite team group should have their stand alone tv deal, where they can then use that money to evenly split it amongst their eligible scholarship players (this number will have to be reduced...yikes).
Model everything exactly like the NFL, with the only difference being movement of teams up/down from the premier division. That way you keep CFB alive, to some degree, in my opinion.
The NFL absolutely needs to step in, though, IMO. Again, sure- they make some decisions I disagree with, but IMO their future rides on this too, and they way they've structured their league smashes all the others.
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Orange Phenom [14180]
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I posted something like this yesterday...
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Dec 5, 2023, 11:58 AM
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Here's a reprint:
The only way people are going to be truly happy is to eventually morph the college football system into something akin to the NFL system where only on-field results produces the champion. The problem is that would require dividing the current FBS teams into two leagues (at a minimum).
Something like this perhaps:
The top 64 programs from the current Power 5 are put into a Premiere College Football League. The Premiere League is further divided into two conferences - Red Conference and Blue Conference. These Conferences will be further sub-divided into 4 divisions; Red Conference North, South, East and West and a Blue Conference North, South, East, and West. From there the Red and Blue Conferences have a schedule and playoff system that mirrors the NFL structure (NFC and AFC Divisions) with the two Conference champions (Red and Blue) meeting in the Premiere College Championship for the Premiere League Champion.
The remaining FBS college teams not in the Premiere College Football League will form The Senior College Football League with their own Red/Blue conferences and mirror the same conference structure, rules, and playoffs as the Premiere College Football League. They have their own title game and crown their own Senior College Football League Champion.
The twist I would add is that any team in the Premiere league who suffers 2 continuous losing seasons (or whatever metric we want) can be sent down to the Senior League and be replaced by the top winning teams from the Senior league - starting with the most recent Senior League Champion.
If you want to do away with the eye test, rankings or any of that other garbage about the only way to do it is to reduce the top league of college football and institute a system similar to the NFL where there are no committees or anything other than on field results providing the champions...
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Top TigerNet [28417]
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did not see that
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Dec 5, 2023, 12:00 PM
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haha, same page.
inadvertently responding to Obed below though, our idea falls on its face due to Football subsidizing athletic programs I think.
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TigerNet Immortal [168578]
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Wow, re-reading the article again, I just realized. It isn't just football.
Dec 5, 2023, 11:46 AM
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For a D1 school to be in this new subdivision, it's $30k per year per athlete for 50% of their athletes in ALL sports.
This is going to flat out kill non-revenue sports in general. Clemson got rid of the swim team because they didn't want to lengthen the swimming pool. You think they (and every other school) wouldn't just kill a bunch of sports to reduce their $30k/athlete total obligation.
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TigerNet Icon [154403]
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They will have to keep some around unless they get the Feds to repeal
Dec 5, 2023, 11:47 AM
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Title 9
I'm guessing that's what is driving the all sports thing.
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TigerNet Immortal [168578]
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They'll just kill the mens sports like they did with wrestling.
Dec 5, 2023, 11:52 AM
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Clemson already tried to kill XC and Track to save something paltry like $1M a year a few years ago. This is a lot more than that we are talking about.
Men's Soccer, track, XC, Golf.....all could be under the axe.
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Top TigerNet [28417]
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which is why I think it'll fail
Dec 5, 2023, 11:57 AM
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IMO it's just a starting point of conversations.
If you break out football entirely and the football programs get their own p&l's w/ their own funding from TV deals due to the premier conference or whatever, everything else can run as-is, right?
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Top TigerNet [28417]
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hit send too early
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Dec 5, 2023, 11:57 AM
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I guess, in removing football from P&L you murder total budgets haha.
yeah, idk, good point.
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Orange Immortal [63035]
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I support this AND I would love to see Clemson opt out.
Dec 5, 2023, 11:52 AM
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we won't, but I wish we would.
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TigerNet Immortal [168578]
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Look at my point directly above this.
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Dec 5, 2023, 11:53 AM
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The revenue sports won't just become the 500 pound gorilla, they'll become the only gorilla.
You'll have men's football and basketball and then just enough women's teams to balance those out for Title IX purposes.
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Orange Phenom [14180]
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Yep -at the smaller schools this will kill everything except football and
Dec 5, 2023, 12:10 PM
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basketball. Baseball may not even survive at some schools and women's sports - pfft... they won't even exist.
Seeing what is going on with all the NIL/Portal/ and general money posturing in college sports and the "non-solutions" that are being discussed is like watching someone commit suicide with a butter knife.
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Valley Legend [12303]
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At what point will the IRS swoop in and tax all the benefits given to players?
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Dec 5, 2023, 11:56 AM
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Tuition, housing, food, clothing, medical care, etc.
If those are 'free' benefits and you're making 5, 6 or 7 figures on NIL, when the IRS say enough and tax it all?
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TigerNet Legend [142636]
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I'd guess sooner rather than later.
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Dec 5, 2023, 12:01 PM
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I won't bet against the United States government when there's money on the table.
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Clemson Conqueror [11685]
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Better they learn the hassles of dealing with
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Dec 5, 2023, 12:06 PM
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an HOA at a young age.
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CU Medallion [19865]
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Bit by bit there will be diminished enthusiasm and interest in college sports
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Dec 5, 2023, 12:07 PM
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What’s the difference between this model and professional sports _ except that the professionals are truly the best players. I think over time, there will a gradual decline of marketability that will impact revenue.
This year I will not boycott watching the College Football Playoffs. But my guess is I will miss significant portions of the games due to multi tasking, reading or just sleeping. What use to be “must see” college sports events are just “Yeah probably will watch if entertaining and nothing better to do.”
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Orange Beast [6228]
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I'm with you on that last paragraph. This whole season felt that way to me***
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Dec 5, 2023, 12:22 PM
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Orange Immortal [63035]
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Re: I'm with you on that last paragraph. This whole season felt that way to me***
Dec 5, 2023, 12:23 PM
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Orange Immortal [63035]
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TigerNet Immortal [168578]
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this seems incongruent with saying you support the proposal
Dec 5, 2023, 12:30 PM
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It's just more of what's turned you off already.
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Top TigerNet [28417]
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thinking of the NFL, salary cap, and endorsement deals (NIL)
Dec 5, 2023, 12:26 PM
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NFL players can't receive any endorsements associated w/ their teams, as it impacts the league salary cap. All player endorsement deals are reviewed by the NFL and the NFLPA (from my understanding) as a check to ensure that no nefarious shenanigans is going on.
i.e. Say a Dallas Cowboy fan oil tycoon, buddy w/ Jerry Jones, offers Dak a $50M endorsement deal so Jerry could cut his salary to save space in the cap.
The NFL would go roughshod on them for trying to pull that off.
Where I'm going with this, is I think - again, mimicking the NFL here - there needs to be a few things put in place to protect the players and the schools: 1- Collective Bargaining Agreement. Cap Freshman contracts like the NFL does rookie deals. 2 years commitment or no money. 1a- Have limits on pay escalation in yrs 3, 4, and even 5 for redshirts (ala salary cap) 2- NCAAPA 3- Review of all player NIL deals and their association with schools, boosters, etc. Cannot be associated with the school, cannot be offered to a player under contract w/ current school.
This would put a framework in place to limit financial commitments to incoming recruits and theoretically mitigate nefarious #### going on btwn seasons (our baseball player guy, for example).
In order for this to work though, there needs to be a centralized authority for all of collegiate athletics. It can't be done at the conference level, including where the money is coming from.
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Ultimate Tiger [36457]
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If players become employees, the will unionize.
Dec 5, 2023, 12:40 PM
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Schools don't want that to happen. That's why the Supreme Court has always ruled in their favor. That may change tho. Where will these schools get the money?
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Top TigerNet [29065]
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Re: Moar NIL. New NIL subdivision?
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Dec 5, 2023, 12:42 PM
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At least at this point, my interest can't fall below 0.
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Clemson Conqueror [11166]
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And can be fired mid-season***
Dec 5, 2023, 2:32 PM
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Replies: 35
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