|
Replies: 108
| visibility 2337
|
Paw Warrior [4747]
TigerPulse: 82%
37
|
Would you guys be opposed to someone
Dec 23, 2022, 8:20 PM
|
|
sitting down with Dabo & his staff and asking him direct questions about the limits of his religion within the confines of the Clemson Football Program.
In other words, how many of you would like to know the truth about whether Dabo and his staff have some sort of christian bias in the way that they carry out their (state) jobs.
|
|
|
|
 |
Clemson Sports Icon [54633]
TigerPulse: 100%
59
Posts: 44003
Joined: 2004
|
It’s Dabo’s program. End of story.***
Dec 23, 2022, 8:22 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Tiger Titan [47383]
TigerPulse: 77%
58
Posts: 35285
Joined: 2003
|
Well yes, but there are still rules that must be followed.
Dec 23, 2022, 11:42 PM
|
|
I think that was the OP’s point.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Clemson Sports Icon [54633]
TigerPulse: 100%
59
Posts: 44003
Joined: 2004
|
Which rules?
Dec 23, 2022, 11:46 PM
|
|
He has freedom of speech.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Tiger Titan [47383]
TigerPulse: 77%
58
Posts: 35285
Joined: 2003
|
I assume the OP is referring to decisions being based on religious beliefs.
Dec 23, 2022, 11:50 PM
|
|
As in Christian players being shown favoritism, non-Christian players being discriminated against, and these decisions impacting playing time and scholarship offers and things of that nature.
Dabo sharing his faith and using Christian examples in his coaching and interactions is certainly okay.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Clemson Sports Icon [54633]
TigerPulse: 100%
59
Posts: 44003
Joined: 2004
|
I would like to see proof of favoritism for said
Dec 24, 2022, 1:25 AM
|
|
Christian players versus non-Christian players and discrimination.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Tiger Titan [47383]
TigerPulse: 77%
58
Posts: 35285
Joined: 2003
|
I don’t think Dabo is doing that.
Dec 24, 2022, 11:10 AM
|
|
I interpreted the OP’s post as wanting to make sure that it isn’t happening, and wondering what the university does to ensure that it isn’t.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Gridiron Giant [15979]
TigerPulse: 100%
50
Posts: 10145
Joined: 2016
|
Re: Which rules?
Dec 24, 2022, 12:45 AM
[ in reply to Which rules? ] |
|
And Dabo has freedom of religion. If the OP is trying to silently make reference to the separation of church and state, he's barking up the wrong tree. Dabo has the right to talk about and practice his religion even working for the state. The State (and Federal) Government has to walk the tight rope when it comes to religion, not the individual.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Paw Warrior [4747]
TigerPulse: 82%
37
|
Re: Which rules?
Dec 24, 2022, 9:20 AM
|
|
The individual carries some of the authority and weight of the government in their job. They are, in fact, agents of the state. As such, they have certain restrictions on their individual freedoms while exercising that state authority.
As a public school teacher, I was forbidden from overt expression of religion in my classroom and while doing my job. Outside of that I was perfectly free to practice my spiritual beliefs - as long as they did not interfere with the performance of my state duties. I think that a coach at a state institution would have to follow similar protocols.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Clemson Icon [24359]
TigerPulse: 100%
54
Posts: 18130
Joined: 2000
|
Re: Which rules?
Dec 24, 2022, 10:03 AM
|
|
Tobi
Did the School Board sit you down and ask YOU extensive questions about why you should not be beating & abusing your wife & children?
Do you think this would be a good general practice of the School Board for ALL married teachers or teachers in a relationship?
Please expand upon your reasoning.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Paw Warrior [4747]
TigerPulse: 82%
37
|
Re: Which rules?
Dec 24, 2022, 1:00 PM
|
|
CUNext
If I had said, in the local paper, that my classroom was built on my belief in a christian god, you better believe that the school board would have some serious questions to ask of me. I would probably be put on leave until those questions could be answered. At best I would be put on a very short leash about displaying my faith within the confines of my state job.
I promise you no public school teacher could act as Dabo has acted and not be reined in.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Associate AD [831]
TigerPulse: 94%
23
|
Re: It’s Dabo’s program. End of story.***
Dec 24, 2022, 9:28 AM
[ in reply to It’s Dabo’s program. End of story.*** ] |
|
Actually, it is the University's program and the university is a state university. As an employee of a state university, Dabo needs to be careful about appearances of promoting a particular religion.
That means no baptisms on the practice field and no state owned busses hauling football players to a Sunday church service of Dabo's choice. (These things have happened in the past - I've no idea if they continue to happen.)
I'm sure if Dabo was leading prayers to Mecca six times a day, you would be less inclined to say "it's Dabo's program, end of story."
|
|
|
|
|
|
Clemson Sports Icon [58475]
TigerPulse: 100%
59
Posts: 23775
Joined: 2011
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Immortal [64594]
TigerPulse: 100%
60
Posts: 41646
Joined: 2004
|
Re: Would you guys be opposed to someone
Dec 23, 2022, 8:24 PM
|
|
We already know there is no “Christian bias,” coot.
Dabo has said so.
Non-Christian former players have said so.
You coots are looking for mayo in all the wrong places.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Associate AD [831]
TigerPulse: 94%
23
|
Re: Would you guys be opposed to someone
Dec 24, 2022, 9:24 AM
|
|
We already know there is no “Christian bias,” coot.
Dabo has said so.
Non-Christian former players have said so.
You coots are looking for mayo in all the wrong places.
Not completely true. We had a Jehovah's Witness WR who said that the bible-thumping didn't bother him but that it made him 'uncomfortable.' This is a state university. A state employee should not be making student-athletes uncomfortable over the matter of religion.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Clemson Icon [24359]
TigerPulse: 100%
54
Posts: 18130
Joined: 2000
|
"Uncomfortable".... LOL!!!
Dec 24, 2022, 9:40 AM
|
|
Telling him he's gonna have to study the playbook his 1st year, keep his grades up in classes, and work HARD on his strength & conditioning before he'll be able to get on the field in a game could make him feel 'uncomfortable'.
Some of y'all peckerheads sure do reach for anything to discredit Clemson or Dabo... sorry you have such a sad attitude.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Associate AD [831]
TigerPulse: 94%
23
|
Re: "Uncomfortable".... LOL!!!
Dec 24, 2022, 10:16 AM
|
|
Telling him he's gonna have to study the playbook his 1st year, keep his grades up in classes, and work HARD on his strength & conditioning before he'll be able to get on the field in a game could make him feel 'uncomfortable'.
Some of y'all peckerheads sure do reach for anything to discredit Clemson or Dabo... sorry you have such a sad attitude.
Obviously, you don't get it.
The state-sponsored religion (via his coach) made him uncomfortable. Nobody is saying that practice and study are easy. But a player should not be made to feel uncomfortable about his own religious beliefs by his coach - even if the player isn't complaining about it.
Y'all just pretend to be clueless about this stuff.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [20688]
TigerPulse: 100%
52
Posts: 12598
Joined: 2018
|
|
|
|
|
|
Offensive Star [323]
TigerPulse: 65%
15
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [20688]
TigerPulse: 100%
52
Posts: 12598
Joined: 2018
|
Re: Would you guys be opposed to someone
Dec 24, 2022, 11:20 AM
[ in reply to Re: Would you guys be opposed to someone ] |
|
Legally speaking, the first part of the statement would probably negate the second meaning when he said it didn't bother him. If it didn't bother him then it calls into question how "uncomfortable" he really was and would most likely not arise to a provable point of discrimination.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Tiger Spirit [9539]
TigerPulse: 70%
44
|
Would they need to sit down?
1
Dec 23, 2022, 8:24 PM
|
|
Or could they stand and ask questions?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Varsity [122]
TigerPulse: 100%
11
|
Re: Would you guys be opposed to someone
Dec 23, 2022, 8:25 PM
|
|
You have got to be kidding
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Immortal [64594]
TigerPulse: 100%
60
Posts: 41646
Joined: 2004
|
Re: Would you guys be opposed to someone
Dec 23, 2022, 8:31 PM
|
|
You have got to be kidding chicken.
FIFY
|
|
|
|
|
|
Varsity [122]
TigerPulse: 100%
11
|
Re: Would you guys be opposed to someone
Dec 23, 2022, 8:45 PM
|
|
Nice fix. Thanks
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recruit [97]
TigerPulse: 92%
10
|
Re: Would you guys be opposed to someone
Dec 23, 2022, 8:28 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Clemson Icon [24892]
TigerPulse: 94%
54
Posts: 17252
Joined: 2002
|
Tell 'em coot, no one knows losing better than you
Dec 23, 2022, 8:29 PM
|
|
you earned it
|
|
|
|
|
|
Paw Warrior [4756]
TigerPulse: 100%
37
|
Re: Tell 'em coot, no one knows losing better than you
Dec 23, 2022, 8:36 PM
|
|
Welcome back, I mean all the way back .. none of that “Dolt” stuff ..
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [5684]
TigerPulse: 96%
39
|
I'd rather have a coach who stands behind his beliefs
Dec 23, 2022, 8:32 PM
|
|
Than one who makes cringey tiktok dances and gets mayo baths, coot.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Associate AD [831]
TigerPulse: 94%
23
|
|
|
|
|
|
Paw Warrior [4756]
TigerPulse: 100%
37
|
Re: Would you guys be opposed to someone
Dec 23, 2022, 8:36 PM
|
|
Who cares?
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [3994]
TigerPulse: 99%
35
|
Let me ask you this…
Dec 23, 2022, 8:43 PM
|
|
Would you be relieved, perhaps happy, if Dabo resigned due to an order that he under NO circumstances mention ANY words during his duties as head coach at Clemson that could be construed as referencing his Christian faith?
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [3994]
TigerPulse: 99%
35
|
Well….????
Dec 23, 2022, 10:30 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Paw Warrior [4747]
TigerPulse: 82%
37
|
Re: Well….????
Dec 23, 2022, 11:21 PM
|
|
I would be happiest if Coach Swinney would continue to coach playoff bound Clemson Tiger teams without any hint that he might be bringing undue christian influences upon his player and staff - if he would coach and serve as an example rather than proselytize about christianity.
Perhaps that is what he IS doing, but when he makes statements like the latest one, he causes me to become concerned that perhaps he is putting undue and unfair pressure on his charges to adhere to his religious beliefs. I only want to know about the reality of THAT situation within the department, because i think it would be wrong and unconstitutional; for a state employee to be doing such a thing.
I am confident that many of y'all would agree with me if Dabo was a Muslim, building the Clemson Football Program in Allah's image.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [6915]
TigerPulse: 100%
41
|
Re: Well….????
Dec 23, 2022, 11:38 PM
|
|
Dabo wouldn't be the HC at Clemson if he was Muslim. Moot point.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Paw Warrior [4747]
TigerPulse: 82%
37
|
Re: Well….????
Dec 23, 2022, 11:56 PM
|
|
Rc,
No, I think the principle is the same and that you are just trying to avoid it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [3994]
TigerPulse: 99%
35
|
As you avoided answering my question***
Dec 24, 2022, 12:11 AM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Paw Warrior [4747]
TigerPulse: 82%
37
|
Re: As you avoided answering my question***
Dec 24, 2022, 9:22 AM
|
|
Did I not answer it above ??
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [3994]
TigerPulse: 99%
35
|
You have now…
Dec 24, 2022, 1:15 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Associate AD [831]
TigerPulse: 94%
23
|
Re: Well….????
Dec 24, 2022, 9:32 AM
[ in reply to Re: Well….???? ] |
|
Dabo wouldn't be the HC at Clemson if he was Muslim. Moot point.
So you are saying that the university discriminates based on religion?
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [3655]
TigerPulse: 100%
35
|
Re: Well….????
Dec 24, 2022, 9:48 AM
[ in reply to Re: Well….???? ] |
|
We had an Islamic soccer coach.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Associate AD [831]
TigerPulse: 94%
23
|
Re: Well….????
Dec 24, 2022, 10:18 AM
|
|
I'm not sure why RC said we wouldn't have a Muslim football coach. Asking him to clarify.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Tiger Titan [47383]
TigerPulse: 77%
58
Posts: 35285
Joined: 2003
|
We did, and to be fair, how would our fans have been with Coach Ibrahim openly talking about
Dec 24, 2022, 11:21 AM
[ in reply to Re: Well….???? ] |
|
his Islamic faith, quoting the Quran in press conferences, using Muslim principles in how he ran the soccer program, and having an Islamic chaplain but not offering the same for other faiths?
I don’t have a problem with how Dabo runs our program. I think he is well within his rights. But we are being hypocrites to say we think it’s great what Dabo does but not be equally as supportive of a coach of another religion having a right to do the same thing.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [20688]
TigerPulse: 100%
52
Posts: 12598
Joined: 2018
|
Re: We did, and to be fair, how would our fans have been with Coach Ibrahim openly talking about
Dec 24, 2022, 12:27 PM
|
|
Since I do not believe we have done that to another coach at Clemson, we have no reason to worry about being called hypocrites. I actually think if we did do something like that, Dabo would be one of the first to come to their defense, even if he disagreed with their religion. I say this because he knows one of the top commandments of Christianity is to love others and I think he would do just that.
|
|
|
|
|
|
National Champion [8031]
TigerPulse: 100%
42
|
Re: Would you guys be opposed to someone
Dec 23, 2022, 9:33 PM
|
|
Why are you so concerned about it?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Clemson Icon [27666]
TigerPulse: 100%
54
|
Dabo is going thru what Bobby Bowden did for 20 years.
Dec 23, 2022, 10:15 PM
|
|
The more you win the more critics look for ways to criticize. Attacking Christianity is an easy target. Making claims from favoritism and bias to hypocrisy.
Dabo will never soothe his critics. Dabo is who he says he is. He doesn't just talk the talk, he walks the walk.
"Christianity is not what I do, it is who I am." (That is a quote I have used for decades. Most folks don't understand it.) Dabo doesn't act like a Christian. He is a Christian. And, it impacts every element of his life. It's not a switch he flips on and flips off.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Paw Warrior [4747]
TigerPulse: 82%
37
|
Re: Dabo is going thru what Bobby Bowden did for 20 years.
Dec 23, 2022, 11:28 PM
|
|
The more you win, the more people are willing to ignore possible transgressions.
And nobody is attacking christianity nor making claims of favoritism and bias.
I AM asking questions - Questions that I think a state employee should answer.
I only want to know the truth about what is happening in the program. Why does that upset people so ?
If Dabo is not proselytizing or coercing people in the Football Program, then fine. In fact, nothing would make me happier.
If Dabo is proselytizing or coercing religious beliefs through the Football Program, then that is wrong and unconstitutional and unworthy of Clemson University and it needs to be dealt with as soon as possible.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Clemson Icon [24359]
TigerPulse: 100%
54
Posts: 18130
Joined: 2000
|
So Tobi...which player has made a complaint?
Dec 23, 2022, 11:41 PM
|
|
Or are you just trying to stir up false allegations for some personal vendetta?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Paw Warrior [4747]
TigerPulse: 82%
37
|
Re: So Tobi...which player has made a complaint?
Dec 23, 2022, 11:59 PM
|
|
What kind of personal vendetta might I have against Dabo Swinney ?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Clemson Icon [24359]
TigerPulse: 100%
54
Posts: 18130
Joined: 2000
|
Re: So Tobi...which player has made a complaint?
Dec 24, 2022, 12:03 AM
|
|
Are you being facetious? That's the question I just asked you...why are you looking for some way to bring defamatory accusations against Dabo?
Just give me a straight answer!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Paw Warrior [4747]
TigerPulse: 82%
37
|
Re: So Tobi...which player has made a complaint?
Dec 24, 2022, 9:31 AM
|
|
CUnext
I am a proud alumni of Clemson University. I am also a strong believer in the separation of church and state (as were the Founding Fathers). I have NOT accused Dabo's staff of anything. I have asked questions - questions that seem quite legitimate given that the head football coach just publicly declared that his entire football program has been built in the image of his god.
If Dabo is not proselytizing or coercing his players and staff, I would like to know so that I can move on conscious free.
If Dabo is proselytizing or coercing his players or staff, I would like to see the University enforce the guidelines that separate church from state as soon as possible.
I think an intensive set of interviews throughout the department are called for to ascertain which of the above scenarios is the reality in Clemson Football.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4679]
TigerPulse: 100%
37
|
Re: So Tobi...which player has made a complaint?
Dec 24, 2022, 9:35 AM
|
|
Maybe the views of Dabo actually do impact recruiting. As in mama might be saying to son “you need to play for Dabo”.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Associate AD [831]
TigerPulse: 94%
23
|
Re: So Tobi...which player has made a complaint?
Dec 24, 2022, 9:38 AM
[ in reply to Re: So Tobi...which player has made a complaint? ] |
|
Do you think it would be easy for a player to make a complaint against the guy who makes decisions about playing time?
Dabo's behavior (whether appropriate or not) is not determined by whether a player is willing to say something.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ring of Honor [21271]
TigerPulse: 100%
53
Posts: 17764
Joined: 2005
|
There have been exactly zero
Dec 24, 2022, 9:43 AM
[ in reply to Re: So Tobi...which player has made a complaint? ] |
|
as in not one, of anyone of another religion or no religion saying Dabo is discriminating against them in 13 years here. Yet you want to sit him down and question him about discriminating against people based upon religious grounds.
Hmmmm.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Tiger Titan [47383]
TigerPulse: 77%
58
Posts: 35285
Joined: 2003
|
Other than Aaron Kelley being Jehovah’s Witness, which has many
Dec 24, 2022, 11:30 AM
|
|
similarities with Christianity, how many players have we had who didn’t consider themselves Christians?
I don’t recall any players professing any other religions, aside from Aaron Kelley. So it’s not like we seem to have a super diverse team regarding religious beliefs.
That makes sense, because if you’re a hardcore Buddhist or Muslim or Hindu player you probably don’t want to play for a coach that is an outspoken Christian.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4679]
TigerPulse: 100%
37
|
Re: Other than Aaron Kelley being Jehovah’s Witness, which has many
Dec 24, 2022, 11:37 AM
|
|
Fair points except for one. Jehovahs Witness is not at all like Christianity
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ring of Honor [21271]
TigerPulse: 100%
53
Posts: 17764
Joined: 2005
|
That denying Jesus is God thing
Dec 24, 2022, 11:45 AM
|
|
is a pretty stark difference
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4679]
TigerPulse: 100%
37
|
Re: That denying Jesus is God thing
Dec 24, 2022, 11:48 AM
|
|
Correct. I had Jehovahs Witnesses come to my house. One told me how similar we are in theology. I asked him “did Jesus come as God incarnate? God in the flesh? Does Jesus have equal standing to your view of Jehovah? He said “of course not”. I said “then we are not at all similar”
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ring of Honor [21271]
TigerPulse: 100%
53
Posts: 17764
Joined: 2005
|
Re: That denying Jesus is God thing
Dec 24, 2022, 11:59 AM
|
|
JW's used to visit me regularly until I told them I was a Baptist preacher, lol. Mormons too, until I asked them where in the bible it said Jesus and Satan were spirit brothers and where was my planet I would be God of? I would then ask about God's command to not add or take away from His word, and why they added a whole other book of which zero archeological evidence has ever proven any part of it existed.
Satan is a great imposter. The best lies are very close to the truth in many ways, but have very stark differences when it comes to the main point
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4679]
TigerPulse: 100%
37
|
Re: That denying Jesus is God thing
Dec 24, 2022, 12:09 PM
|
|
Exactly right. The JW are sometimes successful with people who have some knowledge of scripture. They will tickle ears and say things like “doesn’t the Bible say……”. The person thinks “seems like I remember that” and then the game begins.
It’s pretty funny that one of them said to me “the Bible never mentions hell”. I said “ no, your New World Translation doesn’t mention it because your former Methodist founder feared hell and he took it out”. He then changed the subject.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Tiger Titan [47383]
TigerPulse: 77%
58
Posts: 35285
Joined: 2003
|
Who said that there aren’t significant differences?
Dec 24, 2022, 12:17 PM
[ in reply to That denying Jesus is God thing ] |
|
I said that there are a lot of similarities, and there are.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Tiger Titan [47383]
TigerPulse: 77%
58
Posts: 35285
Joined: 2003
|
There are actually many similarities.
Dec 24, 2022, 12:12 PM
[ in reply to Re: Other than Aaron Kelley being Jehovah’s Witness, which has many ] |
|
They believe that Jesus is the son of God like we do.
They believe that Jesus is necessary for salvation like we do.
They believe the Bible is the inerrant word of God like we do.
As a Christian, I disagree with many parts of their beliefs, but I can admit that we share some similarities.
If you ask a Jehovah’s Witness, they will say that they are Christian.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4679]
TigerPulse: 100%
37
|
Re: There are actually many similarities.
Dec 24, 2022, 12:32 PM
|
|
Of course they say they are Christian. But they do not believe Jesus was God incarnate. That makes them not a Christian in spite of what they might say. Now they may shares lot of the “do good teachings, etc” but if Jesus was not God himself putting on an earth suit and dying for us, then his sacrifice would be insufficient. The criteria for being a believer is based on the acceptance of Gods incarnate as savior and Lord. I’m not saying the JW are not good people but they are disqualified as true believers in Christ.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ring of Honor [21271]
TigerPulse: 100%
53
Posts: 17764
Joined: 2005
|
Kicker Ammon Lakip was Mormon
Dec 24, 2022, 11:53 AM
[ in reply to Other than Aaron Kelley being Jehovah’s Witness, which has many ] |
|
we were recruiting a Mormon OL from Utah this year who signed elsewhere. How many players under Dabo have made no profession of any faith?
This is a big nothing burger. We're in the south, most will come from a Christian background if they have a faith background at all. Does Notre Dame recruit only Catholics? BC? Baylor is a Baptist school, are they recruiting only Baptists? Is SMU or Wofford recruiting only Methodists, or PC only Presbyterians?
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [20688]
TigerPulse: 100%
52
Posts: 12598
Joined: 2018
|
Re: Kicker Ammon Lakip was Mormon
Dec 24, 2022, 12:03 PM
|
|
and Wake...
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Elite [5586]
TigerPulse: 100%
38
|
he has already answered this question a dozen times at least
Dec 23, 2022, 10:32 PM
|
|
and every time he does, i learn something new about the man and christian love. But no religious bias towards others ..
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [3625]
TigerPulse: 98%
35
|
Re: Would you guys be opposed to someone
Dec 23, 2022, 11:23 PM
|
|
He has been asked that and he has commented in print on here. It's been posted a half dozen times. He gives his players their space and he is making good men with character. That's all.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Tiger Titan [47383]
TigerPulse: 77%
58
Posts: 35285
Joined: 2003
|
I think it’s perfectly reasonable to ask that question.
Dec 23, 2022, 11:38 PM
|
|
But what is the point of asking it? What are you expecting to find?
There is no rule stating that Dabo can’t use Christian principles in the way he coaches and leads. He’s allowed to mention Jesus and use examples from the Bible.
What he isn’t allowed to do is exclude recruits because they aren’t Christians, make players on the team who aren’t Christian feel discriminated against, or force anyone to go to church or accept his beliefs.
I am confident that Dabo isn’t doing any of this, but it seems like the university is doing its due diligence as a public university to make sure from time to time.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Paw Warrior [4747]
TigerPulse: 82%
37
|
Re: I think it’s perfectly reasonable to ask that question.
Dec 23, 2022, 11:58 PM
|
|
I am unaware of the University's due diligence. Could you point it out to me.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Tiger Titan [47383]
TigerPulse: 77%
58
Posts: 35285
Joined: 2003
|
I have no idea what the university does in terms of due diligence with regard to football.
Dec 24, 2022, 1:29 AM
|
|
I’m assuming they do something though.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Paw Warrior [4747]
TigerPulse: 82%
37
|
Re: I have no idea what the university does in terms of due diligence with regard to football.
Dec 24, 2022, 9:33 AM
|
|
Perhaps - and perhaps they could make that due diligence public. A 10 million dollar, national championship coach carries a lot of clout (& perhaps a bit of hubris).
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [20688]
TigerPulse: 100%
52
Posts: 12598
Joined: 2018
|
Re: I have no idea what the university does in terms of due diligence with regard to football.
Dec 24, 2022, 12:33 PM
|
|
There is this thing called the Freedom of Information Act. Knock yourself out...
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rival Killer [2903]
TigerPulse: 100%
33
|
The burden of proof is on YOU, not Dabo or the school
Dec 24, 2022, 10:06 AM
[ in reply to Re: I think it’s perfectly reasonable to ask that question. ] |
|
You're worse than the government goons who want to "launch an investigation" into their political enemies. When one side is out of power, the other side revs up. A huge waste of money and resources that could be used to actually fix a problem.
You are likely inventing a problem that doesn't need fixing, then demanding that someone look into the problem for evidence that someone ISN'T doing something. If you subpoenaed me and said, "Produce evidence that you aren't beating your wife"--how would I satisfactorily answer that for you?
"You can ask her." Oh, but we know she'd deny it because you control her (whatever the equivalent of playing time is).
"Ok, then look at her body for evidence." Of course you'd say that because you're hitting her in places we wouldn't look.
"Then what would prove it to you?" If you were made to divorce her to prevent any such abuse from going on.
That's the idiocy of what you're asking.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [20688]
TigerPulse: 100%
52
Posts: 12598
Joined: 2018
|
Re: I think it’s perfectly reasonable to ask that question.
Dec 24, 2022, 10:25 AM
[ in reply to Re: I think it’s perfectly reasonable to ask that question. ] |
|
We have a lot of lawyers on staff to protect the university from lawsuits. Do you really think everyone within the administration and athletic department is not regularly briefed on where the lines are and how to make sure they aren't crossed?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Commissioner [923]
TigerPulse: 64%
24
|
I like him being an outspoken Christian***
Dec 23, 2022, 11:39 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Clemson Conqueror [11251]
TigerPulse: 100%
46
|
Re: Would you guys be opposed to someone
Dec 23, 2022, 11:45 PM
|
|
This has been beyond covered. Do you even Clemson bro?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Solid Orange [1388]
TigerPulse: 100%
28
|
“Do you even Clemson bro”
Dec 24, 2022, 12:55 AM
|
|
Is POTD material. TU!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4083]
TigerPulse: 100%
35
|
Yep. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.
Dec 24, 2022, 12:10 AM
|
|
While I don’t share Dabo’s religious zeal, there’s not another coach in the country I’d trade him for. He is a man of integrity, wisdom and compassion. He is exactly who he says he is and, in this age, that is unusual and refreshing.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Valley Protector [1401]
TigerPulse: 87%
29
|
definitely be opposed to it...
Dec 24, 2022, 3:08 AM
|
|
offended by "Christian bias"? boo hoo TOO F BAD-
|
|
|
|
|
|
Paw Warrior [4747]
TigerPulse: 82%
37
|
Re: Would you guys be opposed to someone
Dec 24, 2022, 9:35 AM
|
|
I am amazed at the number of people who seem to have no real interest in knowing what is actually going on in the program - just the facts, ma'm.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ultimate Clemson Legend [98395]
TigerPulse: 100%
64
Posts: 97775
Joined: 2009
|
Christians know what's going on in our program.
Dec 24, 2022, 9:44 AM
|
|
It's the same Spirit which guides our lives. We work with those of all religions without conflict including those of the atheist faith. Our prejudices are that we love everyone whether we think they are lovely or not.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Associate AD [831]
TigerPulse: 94%
23
|
Re: Christians know what's going on in our program.
Dec 24, 2022, 9:59 AM
|
|
It's the same Spirit which guides our lives. We work with those of all religions without conflict including those of the atheist faith. Our prejudices are that we love everyone whether we think they are lovely or not.
"Atheism" is not a "faith."
|
|
|
|
|
|
Clemson Icon [24359]
TigerPulse: 100%
54
Posts: 18130
Joined: 2000
|
Atheism is a 'faith' too
Dec 24, 2022, 10:12 AM
|
|
In fact, there's ZERO evidence to prove God doesn't exist.
Nice try though.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Associate AD [831]
TigerPulse: 94%
23
|
Re: Atheism is a 'faith' too
Dec 24, 2022, 12:04 PM
|
|
In fact, there's ZERO evidence to prove God doesn't exist.
Nice try though.
You are the one who is claiming he exists, without evidence.
There's ZERO evidence to prove Spiderman doesn't exist.
Try to at least pretend to make a logical argument.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ultimate Clemson Legend [98395]
TigerPulse: 100%
64
Posts: 97775
Joined: 2009
|
|
|
|
|
|
Associate AD [831]
TigerPulse: 94%
23
|
Re: Christians know what's going on in our program.
Dec 24, 2022, 12:08 PM
|
|
Show me empirical evidence of no God and I'll withdraw the statement and apologize for the comment. fchrisgrimm
I'm not claiming something exists without any evidence, you are.
I can't prove Superman doesn't exist. I can't prove there aren't little green men on mars. I don't have to because I am not claiming that something exists.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [20688]
TigerPulse: 100%
52
Posts: 12598
Joined: 2018
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [20688]
TigerPulse: 100%
52
Posts: 12598
Joined: 2018
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ultimate Clemson Legend [98395]
TigerPulse: 100%
64
Posts: 97775
Joined: 2009
|
I hope so.
Dec 24, 2022, 9:41 AM
|
|
Christ commands us to love our enemies and pray for them who despitefully use us. To obey God's commandments and to work for our companies and bosses (masters) as if we are doing God's work not just to appear to work hard but to do it wholeheartedly.
A Christian's first obligation is to God. Within that obligation you will find obligations to church, family, job and all those he encounters daily and any that his life might touch.
Find me someone who can do all that without faith that God will help him and I'll ask his wife if that is true.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Associate AD [831]
TigerPulse: 94%
23
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [20688]
TigerPulse: 100%
52
Posts: 12598
Joined: 2018
|
Re: Would you guys be opposed to someone
Dec 24, 2022, 9:51 AM
|
|
There have been groups who have already legally tried to come after him for discrimination in his program by pushing his views in a school that accepts public funding but those had no legal merit and went nowhere. I'm pretty sure he has good lawyers around him and he knows where the lines are in order to keep himself within them. Basically, what you are asking is already taking place internally to avoid any legal situations.
I trust Dabo, the BOT, and our administration to handle business so no, I don't think any outside influence is required or needed.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [20688]
TigerPulse: 100%
52
Posts: 12598
Joined: 2018
|
Re: Would you guys be opposed to someone
Dec 24, 2022, 10:00 AM
|
|
Also, Dabo does not promote the idea that you have to be a Christian in order to play for him but what he does do is make it very well known to both recruits and parents that if you do come to Clemson, you will play in a program that is Christian-led.
I think Dabo actually protects himself by being so public about this because it helps insulate him from claims that people didn't understand what they were getting into. His public statements make it crystal clear who we are and what we are all about.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Associate AD [831]
TigerPulse: 94%
23
|
Pray to Play
Dec 24, 2022, 9:57 AM
|
|
"After FFRF complained about the promotion of Christianity
within the Clemson football program, Coach Dabo
Swinney defended himself, saying in part, “Recruiting
is very personal. Recruits and their families want – and
deserve – to know who you are as a person, not just what
kind of coach you are. I try to be a good example to others,
and I work hard to live my life according to my faith.”
"Yet, Clemson recruits and others tell a different story. The
Chronicle of Higher Education reported that before joining
the team, some recruits prayed with Clemson coaches on
the phone during recruiting calls.95 They reportedly heard
from Swinney on recruiting visits, “I’m a Christian. If you
have a problem with that, you don’t have to be here.”96
"This signals to recruits that religious minorities and non-
religious student athletes are not fully welcome and would
never fully be a part of the team. To Christian parents of
recruits, it signals that their son’s potential new football family
will carry on their religious upbringing. In effect, coaches are
preying upon the religious beliefs of key decision-makers in a
recruit’s life. They are using evangelical Christianity to sell their
program by demonstrating that the most powerful man on a
team is Christian and will infuse the team with his religion.
"Our interviewee also had firsthand experience of a
chaplain helping recruit players by praying with them.
"At a public university, this religious pandering is not only
wrong but also unconstitutional. Any other government
employee would face harsh sanctions were they to abuse
their public position in such a manner. A public university
admissions recruiter would be stopped in his tracks were
he to insinuate that an academic program was a Christian
program."
https://ffrf.org/images/PraytoPlayReport.pdf
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [20688]
TigerPulse: 100%
52
Posts: 12598
Joined: 2018
|
Re: Pray to Play
Dec 24, 2022, 10:04 AM
|
|
They made a lot of claims that did not hold up and they backed away. It is not like Dabo is the only Christian coach in America promoting his beliefs in a publicly funded university. He just happens to be one of the more vocal ones.
With the deep pockets associated with major universities, the lawyers would be having a field day suing these universities if they felt they could actually win in court but alas, that ain't happening.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Associate AD [831]
TigerPulse: 94%
23
|
Re: Pray to Play
Dec 24, 2022, 10:10 AM
|
|
They made a lot of claims that did not hold up and they backed away. It is not like Dabo is the only Christian coach in America promoting his beliefs in a publicly funded university. He just happens to be one of the more vocal ones.
With the deep pockets associated with major universities, the lawyers would be having a field day suing these universities if they felt they could actually win in court but alas, that ain't happening.
What claims didn't hold up? Be specific.
Do they still baptize on the practice field and use state-owned buses to take players to church?
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [20688]
TigerPulse: 100%
52
Posts: 12598
Joined: 2018
|
Re: Pray to Play
Dec 24, 2022, 10:28 AM
|
|
They made a very public threat of legal action and never followed through, presumably because they had no legal standing that they felt would actually hold up in court.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [20688]
TigerPulse: 100%
52
Posts: 12598
Joined: 2018
|
Re: Pray to Play
Dec 24, 2022, 11:03 AM
[ in reply to Re: Pray to Play ] |
|
Baptisms are usually on Wednesday afternoons after practice...
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ring of Honor [23799]
TigerPulse: 100%
53
Posts: 20173
Joined: 2011
|
Your kind have it wrong, it's not the limit on religion,it's
Dec 24, 2022, 10:07 AM
|
|
the LIMIT on THE State. Buckle up, bout to get rough
|
|
|
|
|
|
Associate AD [831]
TigerPulse: 94%
23
|
Re: Your kind have it wrong, it's not the limit on religion,it's***
Dec 24, 2022, 10:10 AM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Associate AD [831]
TigerPulse: 94%
23
|
Re: Your kind have it wrong, it's not the limit on religion,it's
Dec 24, 2022, 10:12 AM
[ in reply to Your kind have it wrong, it's not the limit on religion,it's ] |
|
Until about the '80s, separation of church and state meant that we live under the same law of the land, no matter what religious faith we do or don't practice.
Unfortunately, and definitely beginning with the Hobby Lobby decision, separation of church and state means that christians can exempt themselves from the law if they don't like it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Varsity [122]
TigerPulse: 100%
11
|
Re: Your kind have it wrong, it's not the limit on religion,it's
Dec 24, 2022, 10:28 AM
|
|
I'm getting a strong sense that your problem or issue is actually not with Dabo or the football program, but with Christianity or religion in general.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Associate AD [831]
TigerPulse: 94%
23
|
Re: Your kind have it wrong, it's not the limit on religion,it's
Dec 24, 2022, 10:34 AM
|
|
I'm getting a strong sense that your problem or issue is actually not with Dabo or the football program, but with Christianity or religion in general.
State-sponsored religion.
Clemson isn't Liberty, BYU, Boston College, or BJU, it is a state university.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [20688]
TigerPulse: 100%
52
Posts: 12598
Joined: 2018
|
Re: Your kind have it wrong, it's not the limit on religion,it's
Dec 24, 2022, 10:31 AM
[ in reply to Re: Your kind have it wrong, it's not the limit on religion,it's ] |
|
People confuse the statement about this separation all the time to make their own points. The reality is that the founding fathers included this as a way to protect religion from government persecution and not the other way around. After all, it is why the founding fathers came to America in the first place.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [3763]
TigerPulse: 64%
35
|
Re: Would you guys be opposed to someone
Dec 24, 2022, 10:35 AM
|
|
Sure, if someone alleges some form of religious discrimination is taking place. In the absence of an allegation, we shouldn't assume it is or expect or require Dabo to submit to questioning about it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Associate AD [831]
TigerPulse: 94%
23
|
Re: Would you guys be opposed to someone
Dec 24, 2022, 12:02 PM
|
|
Sure, if someone alleges some form of religious discrimination is taking place. In the absence of an allegation, we shouldn't assume it is or expect or require Dabo to submit to questioning about it.
Dabo did bring it up with his dopey "god's NIL" comment.
There are times when he should just keep his mouth shut.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [20688]
TigerPulse: 100%
52
Posts: 12598
Joined: 2018
|
Re: Would you guys be opposed to someone
Dec 24, 2022, 12:36 PM
|
|
And there you have it...
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [3763]
TigerPulse: 64%
35
|
Re: Would you guys be opposed to someone
Dec 24, 2022, 2:00 PM
[ in reply to Re: Would you guys be opposed to someone ] |
|
It may have been a dopey thing to say but I don't think it now requires Dabo answer for allegations which haven't been made.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Asst Coach [858]
TigerPulse: 100%
23
|
Re: Would you guys be opposed to someone
Dec 24, 2022, 10:39 AM
|
|
I don’t have a single issue with anything Dabo does regarding the way he runs his football program, could care less.Call Clemson and complain about it.And while you’re at it, have them transfer you to the Iptay office and ask them why some of our seat equity plans are doubling.The day that any of these things bother me, I’ll hang up my car flags and save me some money.We have the best coach in college football, wish some of you would understand and appreciate it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Offensive Star [323]
TigerPulse: 65%
15
|
Re: Would you guys be opposed to someone
Dec 24, 2022, 11:08 AM
|
|
Why does that matter to you?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2135]
TigerPulse: 100%
32
|
Re: Would you guys be opposed to someone
Dec 24, 2022, 2:07 PM
|
|
That’s one of the most insulting post I’ve ever seen on this board. What are you doing here, you’re clearly not a Clemson fan. Go away troll.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Replies: 108
| visibility 2337
|
|
|
50
