That's the I don't wanna do it price.

Shocking gutter price

tigerdave2® · 2025-03-26T02:13:21.159Z

Just had a local (highly rated) gutter group provide an estimate. This includes ripping out the old gutters, 432 ft of new gutters, cluttershields, and another 180 ft in downspouts. Total price $13,000. L-O-fcking-L. No way gutters should cost $30/ft. These better be gold plated shields with a side of cocaine and blowjobs to cost as much as the gutters. Any of you bums want to rip off my gutters for < $4 per foot?

Tiggity®

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Bingo.

Mar 26, 2025, 8:43 AM

And when you've worked in comp long enough, and investigated enough assigned risk ghost policy claims, you know a thing or two because you've seen a thing or two.

A "professional" electrician company, for example APEX Electric, with say 50 electricians, will pay maybe $30K a year for worker's comp in premiums for their employees.

Jose Gonzalez and 50 of his buddies from Oaxaca come to the US and start doing electrical work on the side. Jose goes out and gets a ghost policy at his local insurance agency, with coverage for one or zero employees, and from that his agent produces the coveted CERTIFICATE OF INSURANCE (COI). Jose is now too, a "professional". Ghost policy will run you around $1,200. Jose then takes that COI to a job site where a large high school is being built. Gonzalez Electric then bids with the General Contractor (GC) to be the electric sub for the entire project. APEX also bids on the job. APEX is paying over $30K a year in comp premiums, while Jose is in it for $1,200. Jose underbids APEX and wins the job. And all goes well, until someone gets fried. This is usually where I enter the chat. And lemme tell you.....it's not an easy job.

Here's the kicker, the assigned risk policy gets stuck with coverage because the GC was provided the COI showing coverage. But you can get a COI for a ghost policy covering 1 or zero people, or a COI for Apex electric covering 50 electricians, and the COI will look EXACTLY the same. GC can't tell if it's a sham/ghost policy or not. And ignorance...... is bliss.

Years ago I talked to Rick Quinn about this, I've talked to Commissioners, I've talked to NCCI. You can end premium fraud almost entirely by adding just two fields on the COI (a form produced by NCCI). Add a field for states of coverage (often an issue), and number of employees for which premium was paid (ghost policy issue). THEN the GC can tell a ghost policy and make a better decision on who to hire. Ahh....but ignorance is bliss. Some gigs, when you figure them out, won't be stopped because end of the day, school is built cheaper, tax payers pay less, and tax dollars are saved, and GC gets paid more, and the illegal immigrants and legal immigrants get a job to send dollars back home for mom's insulin, sister's college tuition, and dad's heart surgery. No incentive to do what's right by ANY parties.

So then you document premium fraud for the insurance company. Yay. Hard work pays off. The insurance company then sends a letter to Jose. Pay us $30K in back premium for your 50 electricians, or go to jail and be prosecuted. Jose then goes back to Oaxaca, and sends his brother Fernando to SC to take over. Fernando then opens up Fernando's Electricians, Inc., gets another $1,200 ghost policy, hires the SAME 50 guys, and start the next high school.

And then you get to a point in your career where you ask yourself, WHY do I bother? So you switch gears. Not in that business anymore. There is someone today investigating an assigned risk claim who thinks they're doing a service, a good job, making a difference, when in reality, they're just doing a job that could be nearly eliminated by doing the right thing.

And I'm the kind of guy who has to know the purpose and utility of my labor in ANY job. And honestly, if my job is just to go through motions and not ultimately make a difference, then I'm out. And once I learned the scams, learned how and why they happen, and then figure out an OBVIOUS solution, and then take that information to the highest authorities in the state, and nothing happens, you kind of get a little de-motivated, so to speak. Disappointed. You then see your job in a different light, and that light is not nearly as rewarding.

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Shocking gutter price

Holy eff balls.

So, by my mental math

Re: So, by my mental math

Re: Shocking gutter price

I got you

next. get Andersen windows to give you a quote.

Probably more now

And what makes you think south of the border isn't professional?***

I'm pretty sure he's using "professional" the same as

Bingo.

Didn't say it wasn't. But often it isn't.

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