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Oculus Spirit [83193]
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Insurance rates have risen less under Obamacare than
Aug 13, 2015, 11:01 AM
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under bbbush:
http://www.factcheck.org/2015/02/slower-premium-growth-under-obama/
Slower Premium Growth Under Obama
Posted on February 6, 2015
Republicans say the average family health insurance premium has increased by $4,154 under President Obama. That’s right — and it’s a much slower rate of growth than under President George W. Bush. In fact, employer-sponsored premiums have been growing at moderate rates for the past few years.
This is a prime example of what we call a “true, but” claim: an assertion that’s technically correct, but changes in meaning or significance once it’s put in context or fully explained.
The Republican National Committee took to Twitter before Obama gave his State of the Union address to spread this statistic: “Under Obama, Average Family Premiums Have Increased $4,154.” Two days later, Rep. Barbara Comstock tweeted the same stat, and the RNC lists it, along with other premium numbers, in a State of the Union “fact check.”
The average employer-sponsored family premium has gone up by $4,154 under Obama, from 2008, before he took office, to 2014, according to the Kaiser Family Foundation’s annual employer survey conducted with the Health Research & Educational Trust. The catch? That’s relatively slow growth for premiums. The RNC may cast it as bad news, but it’s an improvement compared with the growth in premiums before Obama took office.
Under Bush, the average family premiums (including both what employers and employees pay) went up $4,677 in his last six years in office, from 2002 to 2008, an increase of 58 percent. That $4,154 growth under Obama is a 33 percent increase. If we look at Bush’s first six years, the discrepancy gets even bigger: From 2000, the year before Bush was first inaugurated, to 2006, the average family premium went up $5,042, or an increase of 78 percent. (See Exhibit 1.11 on page 31 of the KFF report for these numbers.)
In an online petition to repeal a tax on medical devices, the RNC goes so far as to claim average family premiums “have skyrocketed” under Obama. Skyrocketed? More like inched up. The RNC gives the stat after saying that “Obamacare has been a failure.” That’s the RNC’s opinion, but it’s not supported by this statistic, which includes premium growth before the law was even enacted.
If the RNC wanted to show what has happened to employer-sponsored premiums under the Affordable Care Act, it should have started the clock in 2010, the year the law was passed. But that makes Obama look better. The rate of growth in average premiums from 2010 to 2014 is 22 percent. Even then, the increase isn’t completely attributable to the ACA. Premiums have been going up every year since the KFF survey started measuring them in 1999.
Most of the major provisions of the law didn’t go into effect until 2014, but the growth in the average family premium for that year was a mere 3 percent. That doesn’t mean the ACA was responsible for the slowdown in growth, either.
The Kaiser Family Foundation’s 2014 report on its survey explains how the recent growth is low compared with the early 2000s: “Family premiums have increased 69% since 2004 and have more than doubled since 2002. However, the average family premium has grown less quickly over the last five years than it did between 2004 and 2009 or between 1999 and 2004.” Here’s the KFF’s graphical representation of the slowdown:
The Obama administration has, in fact, boasted many times of the recent slow growth in health care spending overall. From 2009 to 2013, total health care expenditures for the U.S. have been rising at rates around 4 percent per year (see Table 1). The journal Health Affairs noted that such rates are the lowest since the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services started compiling the National Health Expenditure Accounts data in 1960.
In November, Obama said the slow growth in health care spending “has the effect of making premiums for families lower that they otherwise would have been,” and implied the ACA was responsible. (The average premium growth for 2013 and 2014 has been under 4 percent.) But as we pointed out then, experts say the lower rates of growth are mainly due to the sluggish economy. A 2013 analysis by KFF said that “much of the decline in health spending growth in recent years was fully expected given what was happening more broadly in the economy.” And CMS’ experts said in 2014 that the ACA had had a “minimal impact.”
While premiums have been growing, so too has the percentage of plans with deductibles. KFF President and CEO Drew Altman said in a press release on the latest employer survey: “The relatively slow growth in premiums this year is good news for employers and workers, though many workers now pay more when they get sick as deductibles continue to rise and skin-in-the-game insurance gradually becomes the norm.” In 2009, 63 percent of covered workers with single coverage had plans with annual deductibles; in 2014, 80 percent had such plans.
The RNC’s “fact check” goes on to list more figures from the KFF survey, including the accurate statistic that the average premium for single coverage through employers has gone up 28 percent “under Obama” That’s right again, but much lower than the growth of individual premiums during Bush’s first six years. That increase was 72 percent.
— Lori Robertson
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Hall of Famer [24922]
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Nationalize it.... Medical insurance, Big Pharma, and
Aug 13, 2015, 11:30 AM
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the medical industry in general have been exceeding wage growth for the last 35 years... They have a 'captive' clientele without an alternative and are running a 'for profit' business. We currently pay just shy of 3x what the rest of the Western world pays for healthcare....and it's all about administrative inefficiency and profits for stockholders.
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Legend [15754]
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Nope. A freer market would be the answer.
Aug 13, 2015, 12:01 PM
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But we're apparently too foolish to see it.
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Hall of Famer [24922]
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"Freer markets" don't work in oligopolies...***
Aug 13, 2015, 12:37 PM
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Heisman Winner [112077]
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Re: Nope. A freer market would be the answer.
Aug 13, 2015, 1:55 PM
[ in reply to Nope. A freer market would be the answer. ] |
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a pure free market system will realize that there are greater profits in disease than health, and will work in its own best interest by treating symptoms, and not causes(some call this the invisible hand).
It will also find incredible profits in using our greatest scientific minds to create boner pills and hairloss medications, most of which will be scams because scams are profitable too. Misinformation will cheaper than R&D, because agaian treating symptoms and giving false hope require less of an investment than tackling real problems.
And If I am in investor, I am going to put my money the most profitable companies, and not the most effective. All I care about is getting a big ROI, and if people die it does not matter because I get rich. This is called profit motive, in case you were wondering.
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Orange Blooded [3590]
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There is no way you can predict this. I know liberal
Aug 13, 2015, 2:12 PM
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activists in government think they are smarter than the people, and can "invest" their money more wisely, but that is an entirely false narrative.
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Heisman Winner [112077]
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Re: There is no way you can predict this. I know liberal
Aug 13, 2015, 2:18 PM
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ummm, this is the system we have now champ... and yes, a profit driven system focuses on short term profits over long term, positive outcomes.
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Hall of Famer [21622]
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What... you mean like an actual free market?
Aug 13, 2015, 2:04 PM
[ in reply to Nope. A freer market would be the answer. ] |
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Are you serious? That's at least as bad as totalitarian communism.
An actual free market would end up with 12 dudes ruling over a matrix world.
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Legend [15754]
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Letterman [292]
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Re: Insurance rates have risen less under Obamacare than
Aug 13, 2015, 11:41 AM
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Sure that's apples to apples, not. I can't even get the coverage I had during Bush's presidency(or Clinton's for that matter). I had $10 co-pay and almost no deductible. Had my shoulder scoped for $20(actual cost ~25K).
Those types of policies were not sustainable, not surprising the cost escalated. About the only option I have now is a high deductible. Makes my decisions about having and additional shoulder surgery pretty easy.
I like the my HSA, though. Its nice to be able to stash another 6.6K tax free away from Uncle Sugar.
BTW, I'm not arguing whether the premise of the article is right or wrong, I have no idea and neither does the author nor the RNC.
/kid
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Hall of Famer [24922]
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No one wants to talk about the 8-10% annual increases for
Aug 13, 2015, 11:48 AM
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well over a decade during the 90s and 2000s. That has tapered off basically due to public outcry but that's what got us to where we are today.
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Letterman [292]
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Re: No wants to talk about it because it has nothing to do..
Aug 13, 2015, 12:24 PM
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with the OP's article. The article was an attempt to make it look like the ACA slowed the rate of premium increases using some flawed math - no more no less. The author and the RNC both tried to make a point and feed their sheeple.
The article has no redeeming value whatsoever no matter which side you're on.
/kid
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Hall of Famer [24922]
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The article throughout is stating claims, right or wrong,
Aug 13, 2015, 12:40 PM
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about percentage increases in health premiums. That is precisely why I brought up percentages that are being overlooked. It is pertinent even to a blind man.
Message was edited by: SOLOS®
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Lot o points [156202]
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Because everyone is on a high deductible plan now.
Aug 13, 2015, 12:06 PM
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We didn't spend more than $250 per kid out of pocket for their 2 births, and that included C-sections and NICU stays.
Last year I paid $1700 out of pocket for a freaking simple CAT scan.
Your comparison is like saying "Monthly car payments went up more under Bush than Obama!!!" then not mentioning that people were driving Mercedes S-classes under Bush and Kias under Obama.
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Oculus Spirit [83193]
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True, more people are of course. It's just that
Aug 13, 2015, 2:29 PM
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Obamacare ain't the evil that many people on here are spouting about. Of course, when insurance companies are forced to take people with preexisting conditions, rates will go up. At the same time, making insurance mandatory for everyone, should make them go down some.
Rates have been out of control for many many years. This ain't nothing new.
I'm getting closer and closer to wanting a single payer system every day. My Republican wife has been for this for a long time beause it's usually her who has to deal with the insurance company that covers her and my daughter.
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All-In [31938]
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No Joe, it really is....
Aug 13, 2015, 4:57 PM
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of course rates go up when pre-existing conditions have to be covered. The problem is that when the GOP pointed that out during the "debate" on this issue, the POTUS said rates would go down by $2500 (I think) per year. It was BS and anyone with any sense knew it, yet a lot of fools bought it hook, line, and sinker.
Obamacare's mandate of employer coverage at relatively higher levels of coverage...the 35 hr/wk rule...are job killers up and down the wage scale.
Plus, the forced elimination of catastrophic plans/partial self-insuring is costing a lot of folks a lot of money. That hurts economic growth measurably.
And on and on...
The law sucks and the plan sucks. It is not complete government take-over of healthcare...but it is complete government eff'up of health insurance.
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Oculus Spirit [75889]
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Okay, so our premiums went up about 6% last year, but our
Aug 13, 2015, 12:27 PM
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deductibles doubled. How bout that?
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Orange Blooded [3590]
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Not to mention "out of pocket"***
Aug 13, 2015, 12:30 PM
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Orange Blooded [3590]
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What about the $716 billion from Medicare to Obamacare?***
Aug 13, 2015, 12:57 PM
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All-In [31938]
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That's not worth the cost of Obamacare on the...
Aug 13, 2015, 1:35 PM
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economy, the budget, and the impact on folks that already had plans they liked.
A slowing of the insurance premium inflation isn't a great apples-to-apples comparison, since all of the inputs changed, including deductible and available docs. Also, the employer mandate hasn't fully kicked in yet. Let's wait for a few rounds of insurers recalculating the basis after running these plans for a couple years and then judge it.
And with all of that said, wasn't the plan promised to CUT premiums and not just slow their growth slightly?
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Legend [15754]
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Honestly, am I the only one that chuckles at the defense
Aug 13, 2015, 1:43 PM
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of the ACA? I can't believe anyone is defending it at this point.
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Orange Blooded [3590]
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Wookie, liberals will never allow facts to interfere with
Aug 13, 2015, 1:46 PM
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their ideology. Never.
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All-In [28802]
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I think that's because the goals are entirely different
Aug 13, 2015, 2:50 PM
[ in reply to Honestly, am I the only one that chuckles at the defense ] |
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Liberals are largely focused on guaranteeing access to health insurance. They think they can do that without screwing up the market- either through making it more difficult to access actual care (including more expensive treatments) because of the increased demand, or by causing price issues because of misallocation of resources- but lowering the overall cost of care and increasing access to the most innovative medicine isn't their priority.
Most conservatives are more concerned with bringing the cost of care down by eliminating factors, including government regulations, that are roadblocks to an efficient market. Increasing innovation and competition in order to give consumers more control over their health care is conservatives' priority, not necessarily immediately guaranteeing access.
So liberals can defend the ACA on the basis of their stated goals- less people are uninsured, and health insurance costs less than getting insurance on the previous individual market for people who weren't getting insurance through their employer before.
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Oculus Spirit [83193]
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Yea, I think they were banking on the individual mandate
Aug 13, 2015, 3:32 PM
[ in reply to That's not worth the cost of Obamacare on the... ] |
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bringing down costs because of less people going to the ER, plus, the employer mandate.
Still, if you have to cover people with preexisting conditions, it's hard pressed to bring down rates, thought, I agree with the preexisting conditions law.
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All-In [31938]
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I do too, but that could have been handled in a number...
Aug 13, 2015, 4:50 PM
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of different ways without the plan used in the ACA.
Congress could have mandated that insurance has to cover pre-existing conditions, medicaid could have been expanded to cover the poor, and a few other tweeks without all of the rest of BS. Premiums would have continued to increase of course, but I suspect about the same as now.
(disclaimer...the above is for argument's sake and I still do not believe the federal government has a role in the regulating the health insurance market...it's a state's issue and could have been handled on the state level...with the exception that the feds should have opened it up to all inter-state competition and then stepped out of the way).
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Orange Blooded [3590]
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It is impossible
Aug 13, 2015, 1:45 PM
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to add people to the insurance plans, people who pay little or nothing, without adding to the costs.
Cost increases that are over and above the routine cost increases.
You cannot mandate that insurance companies add benefits without adding costs.
You cannot mandate that insurance companies add people with pre-existing conditions without adding costs.
I don't care what Obama and Harry and Nancy told you.
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Oculus Spirit [83193]
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Doesn't making it mandatory for everyone cause the price
Aug 13, 2015, 2:30 PM
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to go down though?
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Orange Blooded [3590]
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In word, no. Look at the people who have signed up.
Aug 13, 2015, 4:36 PM
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They did not have insurance, which means they most probably did not have jobs, which means they are getting heavily subsidized. Subsidized by whom?
Obamacare mandated many new additions to insurance policies, which cost money.
The 800 pound gorilla that no one talks about is that Obamacare's mandates will not apply to employer provided healthcare policies until after the 2016 elections. In other words, the Dems delayed the real kick in the a** until after the next presidential election. Now why would they do that?
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Oculus Spirit [83193]
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But weren't many going to the ER before? Don't
Aug 13, 2015, 5:07 PM
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people who can't pay cause rates to skyrocket more than anything?
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Orange Blooded [3590]
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See if this helps
Aug 13, 2015, 5:47 PM
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http://money.cnn.com/2015/06/02/news/economy/obamacare-rates/
Obamacare sticker shock: Big rate hikes proposed for 2016
Many are proposing double-digit premium increases for individual policies, with some companies looking to boost rates more than 60%, according to a list posted Monday by the federal Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services.
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Oculus Spirit [97898]
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Amazing what $16,000,000,000 in subsidies a year
Aug 13, 2015, 1:53 PM
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can do for premiums.
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All-TigerNet [12066]
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That is weird
Aug 13, 2015, 3:23 PM
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I thought it was expected to become more affordable, not less
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