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Clemson Conqueror [11638]
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Why is Oklahoma Thriving and Nebraska Diving?
Aug 29, 2021, 9:13 PM
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Is it just coaching? Stoops + Riley much better than Pelini + Riley + Frost. I mean, both programs have been two of the greatest, both in the same part of the country.
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Orange Blooded [2379]
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Re: Why is Oklahoma Thriving and Nebraska Diving?
Aug 29, 2021, 9:21 PM
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Good question.
While they are in the same geenral area, OK is much closer to TX than is NE, and Oklahoma lives on Texas talent in a way that Nebraska never has.
Nebraska started that wieght training porgram at a time nobody was doing that, they got a window of competitive advantage, plus Osborne as a great coach. But now everyone weight rains, Osborne has gone, and Texas kids won't go to cold Nebraska. I think Nebraska will never come back in a big way.
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Asst Coach [825]
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Re: Why is Oklahoma Thriving and Nebraska Diving?
Aug 29, 2021, 9:36 PM
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Recruiting footprint. Okie in the Big12 has Texas opponents; Nebraska has the Mid West. No recruiting footprint.
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All-American [581]
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Re: Why is Oklahoma Thriving and Nebraska Diving?
Aug 29, 2021, 10:51 PM
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Nebraska also recruited better from Texas back when they were in the Big 12. I'm sure they're happy to be in the Big Ten given the disparity in revenue, but they likely miss those road trips to Texas from a recruiting standpoint.
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CU Medallion [19134]
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Re: Why is Oklahoma Thriving and Nebraska Diving?
Aug 29, 2021, 11:13 PM
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^^^^ This!
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1st Rounder [605]
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Tiger Spirit [9951]
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Re: Why is Oklahoma Thriving and Nebraska Diving?
Aug 29, 2021, 9:59 PM
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Academic standards? Tougher competition in the Big10?
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Associate AD [1094]
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You mean the conference where
Aug 30, 2021, 9:09 AM
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They’re not there to play school?
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Clemson Icon [27716]
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Re: Why is Oklahoma Thriving and Nebraska Diving?
Aug 29, 2021, 10:32 PM
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I think the major reason, maybe even as high as 90% is coaching.
Why did Bama struggle for so many years between Stallings and Bryant? Why is Clemson thriving under Dabo but struggled under West and Bowden? Why does Tennessee stink?
I'm sure there are other factors, but the major reason is coaching. Not just X and O coaching, but all the other things a coach does - administrative, infrastructure, PR, and most of all getting kids to believe in what you are doing.
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CU Guru [1557]
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Re: Why is Oklahoma Thriving and Nebraska Diving?
Aug 29, 2021, 10:37 PM
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Bingo, sir. I’d even go as far to say that is probably 95% of the problem. A coach doesn’t win games or lose games most of the time. However, the one thing that separates the great ones from the boy so great ones is what you implied there: “buy in.” If a coach can get a player to believe in what he is doing, the wins will eventually come. If he doesn’t, the wins never will.
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Clemson Sports Icon [55533]
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Re: Why is Oklahoma Thriving and Nebraska Diving?
Aug 29, 2021, 10:45 PM
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I think both are right. But Nebraska, like OSU for a long time was slow in football vision and philosophy. FSU actually changed a lot, as well as Oregon. Kids loved that wide open offense. Was no longer 3 yards and a cloud of dust.
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Top TigerNet [28993]
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Re: Why is Oklahoma Thriving and Nebraska Diving?
Aug 29, 2021, 10:47 PM
[ in reply to Re: Why is Oklahoma Thriving and Nebraska Diving? ] |
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I also think Nebraska's recruiting has fallen way off. They had bruisers on both lines in the past. One of more of their past coaches did a bad job in that area and Frost does seem to be able to do any better.
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National Champion [7528]
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Re: Why is Oklahoma Thriving and Nebraska Diving?
Aug 29, 2021, 11:10 PM
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They were successful before with steroids for the OL and non-qualifiers at the skill positions. Moving to the Big 10 was the wrong move, that program is dead and isn’t coming back.
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Valley Protector [1409]
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Re: Why is Oklahoma Thriving and Nebraska Diving?
Aug 29, 2021, 11:19 PM
[ in reply to Re: Why is Oklahoma Thriving and Nebraska Diving? ] |
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Success level difference had at Clemson by West and Bowden is significant; difference is comparable to that of Bowden and Swinney-
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Paw Warrior [4754]
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Valley Protector [1409]
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Geographical Location****
Aug 29, 2021, 11:00 PM
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Valley Protector [1409]
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Re: Geographical Location****
Aug 29, 2021, 11:07 PM
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A deep well of prospects to draw from every year which will sustain a program through a bad coaching tenure and make it much easier to revive a dying one-
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Valley Legend [12574]
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Re: Geographical Location****
Aug 29, 2021, 11:33 PM
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I’d say the 2 correct answers have been listed. Location and Coaching.
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Campus Hero [13671]
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Re: Why is Oklahoma Thriving and Nebraska Diving?
Aug 29, 2021, 11:46 PM
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I thought Pelini averaged around 9 or 10 wins per year. Why the heck did they fire him?
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110%er [6825]
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Re: Why is Oklahoma Thriving and Nebraska Diving?
Aug 30, 2021, 9:38 AM
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He was as friendly and good sport as Dave Doeren, all the cunning of a Danny Ford with AD/Presidents, with a Tommy Bowden like record.
Bo would both lay into both the fanbase and their AD in meetings. Ok, Ford and Bowden weren't as bad as Bo. But you can't dive into a profanity-laden criticism over anything & everything, would be a sore loser coughing up losses to bad teams. And just be a absolute *coot* to everyone about everything. Even after good wins, he would call out the fanbase.
Nebraska gave him a long rope and even a more patience. Bo hung himself. That and constantly being 6-2 or 5-3 in the weak B12 North then in the B10, well, it would get ugly too as those losses were not just a L they were 21+ point blowouts.
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110%er [3675]
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Three Reasons
Aug 29, 2021, 11:50 PM
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1. Bob Stoops
2. Lincoln Riley
Folks, coaching matters. Simple as that. Nebraska just can't attract top notch head coaches because of reason #3 below.
3. Recruiting
Some people still have this notion leaving the Little 12 is what impaled Nebraska. That narrative is totally false! They were already becoming irrelevant and the slide continued after joining the B1G.
OU is basically a Texas school. NU definitely not so much. Plus, Bob Stoops was incredible. I won't go into detail but he's why OU left NU in the dust. The handoff to Lincoln Riley (another good coach) was perfection. Stoops had the good sense to leave before he was totally out of gas (unlike Mack Brown who stayed 2 years too long at UT).
Because of how well Riley develops skill position offensive players, their recruiting has gone national. Nebraska probably hasn't had 5-star player in 20 years.
Bottom line: Bob Stoops rescued the program after Howard Schnellenberger and John Blake crashed and burned. Nobody has done that for Nebraska.
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Varsity [100]
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Re: Why is Oklahoma Thriving and Nebraska Diving?
Aug 30, 2021, 12:03 AM
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Corn fed = slow
Oklahoma beef = larger xiphoid process
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Top TigerNet [28663]
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Firing Frank solich set them back 20 years...***
Aug 30, 2021, 6:05 AM
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TigerNet Elite [74590]
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Re: Firing Frank Solich set them back 20 years...
Aug 30, 2021, 7:10 AM
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I think the year they fired him he won 9 games. Once you get on the coach replacement carosel like they have it is tough to build anything.
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Top TigerNet [28663]
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Re: Firing Frank Solich set them back 20 years...
Aug 30, 2021, 4:02 PM
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I think the year they fired him he won 9 games. Once you get on the coach replacement carosel like they have it is tough to build anything.
That's why I hope.. If and when/Maybe Dabo manages to win 9 games in a season we or the athletic department doesn't pull the plug on CDS...
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Paw Master [16315]
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Re: Why is Oklahoma Thriving and Nebraska Diving?
Aug 30, 2021, 6:43 AM
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I am surprised no one has mentioned money.
Historically,Oklahoma has been better than Nebraska forever. Most are shocked to compare Clemson to Nebraska during Coach Howard's run and see that we had a better record, won more conference titles, and in the 40s and 50s went to more bowls than the Cornhuskers. During that same period the Sooners were the best team in the nation.
Way back then recruiting was a local business. Oklahoma and Nebraska were equally isolated, both states were not very populous and anything you can say bad about who and where the Cornhuskers today could be said about the Sooners up until very revently.
But in Oklahoma the oil and the money came pouring in. The Sooners still have plenty of money today and they enjoy a much longer history of great football than Nebraska. I think Nebraska enjoyed a great,long run from 1970 built mostly on great coaching. Bob Devaney brought Nebraska their first ever national success in the 60s AND he hired Tom Osborne.
Money put the Sooners on top earlier than Nebraska, it brought national attention,and that history and cash still drives the Sooners.
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Playmaker [350]
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Look at Stats not opinion
Aug 30, 2021, 8:45 AM
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The answer is patience
It took Osborne 7 years to have a winning season
It took Osborne 20 years to win a National Championship
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Clemson Conqueror [11638]
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Re: Look at Stats not opinion
Aug 30, 2021, 1:13 PM
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It did not take Tom Osborne 7 years to have a winning season. He won every year. It did take 2 decades to win a Natty.
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Ultimate Tiger [33087]
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Dabo has proven one thing first - it starts at the top with
Aug 30, 2021, 8:58 AM
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LEADERSHIP with a VISION.
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Game Changer [1613]
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Re: Why is Oklahoma Thriving and Nebraska Diving?
Aug 30, 2021, 9:28 AM
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Good points already noted. Recruiting footprint for sure. Think Coach Frost came in a bit arrogant and set himself up. “Don’t photograph my family” “don’t ask personal questions”.
His Dad has died, he has been humbled and he can figure this out. Beamer took lots of patience at VT as did Coach K Duke.
Frost should probably thaw out a bit. Focus on player development and relationships and make sure his kids know the staff has their backs.
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Legend [6746]
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Texas connection died, when they moved to B1g***
Aug 30, 2021, 9:41 AM
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Clemson Conqueror [11638]
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Re: Why is Oklahoma Thriving and Nebraska Diving?
Aug 30, 2021, 1:14 PM
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Great responses from everyone. Thanks!
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Game Day Hero [4437]
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Re: Why is Oklahoma Thriving and Nebraska Diving?
Aug 30, 2021, 2:46 PM
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Nebraska ran an offense that relied heavily on having a bunch of Nebraska kids walk on who could have played small school football.
It was smash mouth football and didn't require speed.
Now that both offense and defense require speed, they can't use farm boys and haven't been able to recruit well enough to stay competitive.
Same thing could have happened to Clemson if it weren't for the geographical location and Dabo.
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Clemson Conqueror [11638]
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Re: Why is Oklahoma Thriving and Nebraska Diving?
Aug 30, 2021, 5:30 PM
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Speed? I remember some of the Husker teams from the '90s. They weren't slow.
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National Champion [8064]
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Re: Why is Oklahoma Thriving and Nebraska Diving?
Aug 30, 2021, 7:06 PM
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1st. I love this question. It's something I have wondered myself.
2nd. All of the above.
A bunch of great stuff in response to this.
What I look at the most is the change in offensive philosophy! When you can run the football at will what that does is create a situation where your defense only have to play a short number of plays! In short, it makes your defense better(granted you have adequate personnel for FBS).
The defense looks tougher than it really is and opposing offenses often end up "pressing and messing up" because they know they can't stop your run game. When team get behind you on the scoreboard the pressure to score every time is immense. Nebraska didn't have to have the absolute best athletes at one point i.m.o because of this. As they started winning some great players came through there wanting to be a part of the magic.
The walk on program was great and they took time to develop their OL. Are High Schools in Nebraska that are producing those OL recruits running power run game or the spread? Probably the spread. Nebraska at the skill position - can't get elite enough to really run the spread. The spread is all about getting "athletes the ball in space"! Crickets!
The best Texas kids want to go to the wide open Sooners, Cowboys, Red Raiders or Baylor when they were lighting it up. Not to Lincoln, NE.
So, they really in other words need to go back to someone who runs more power run game! Bret Biellema would have been a good fit there(I think).
Seeing this whole thing play out in a microcosm on Friday nights over and over - I can tell you - "it's just the truth of the matter"! They can't control the game with their offense anymore and their defense isn't loaded with elite enough foot speed or even power players to really stop anybody. Controlling the clock and dictating to opposing offenses was what made Nebraska - Nebraska i.m.o.
That Osborne I was something to behold.
He gone.
Now what?
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