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CU Medallion [68276]
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Re: TCI Story on ACC, Notre Dame- say no to partial
Jul 9, 2012, 10:10 AM
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membership. Dont become another Big Least
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CU Guru [1895]
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I don't think partial is bad
Jul 9, 2012, 10:20 AM
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As long as we force them to play at least 4 ACC teams per year along with the ACC having full rights to those games.
That would bring the conference more money, make for more marqee matchups, and give ND a home for their other sports.
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110%er [8009]
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When ND joined the Big East sans football, they agreed
Jul 9, 2012, 10:25 AM
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to play four or five Big East members every year.
1. They always played the same four or five teams. If ND only plays Miami, Pitt, BC, GaT for example, how would that help Clemson?
2. ND usually wanted their games against the Big East to be home games or at a neutral site.
3. How did ND partial membership in the Big East help that league?
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CU Guru [1895]
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You missed part of it.
Jul 9, 2012, 10:29 AM
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"With the ACC having full rights to those games"
Meaning an ACC vs. ND football game's broadcast would be controlled by the league and benefit every team in the ACC.
Also you can set it up so those teams rotate. I'm just saying it would not be all bad. ND didn't ruin the Big East, the ACC did.
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110%er [8009]
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We'll see. I don't trust ND.
Jul 9, 2012, 10:39 AM
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Hate to see the ACC prop them up.
I think full membership or nothing at all.
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Trainer [38]
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Re: We'll see. I don't trust ND.
Jul 9, 2012, 10:46 AM
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I would prefer full membership as I'm sure everyone else would but even a potential partial will get the ACC in a preferential position for them when they do join a conference. As long as the ACC doesn't duck out and do what the Big East did and pretty much let ND walk all over them it should be fine. For now, I'm fine with a partial membership with 4-5 mandated games, potentially with the football power schools, as long as the schedule goes back to 8 games and it is a home/home agreement with the mandated games.
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Commissioner [942]
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ND has no incentive to ever join as a full member now that
Jul 9, 2012, 10:55 AM
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winning a conference is not needed to make the 4-team playoff. I'm with BB. I don't trust ND. They have an inflated opinion of themselves. They cherish their independence and are not going to give that up, especially since NBC gives them special privileges. I think that whatever benefit the ACC gets from ND is akin to a fat girl hanging out with the Prom Queen. The Prom Queen is not about to dump her stud boyfriend to keep the friendship with the fat chick. The benefit is marginal.
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All-TigerNet [12550]
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And what makes you think the ACC wouldn't let Notre
Jul 9, 2012, 12:30 PM
[ in reply to Re: We'll see. I don't trust ND. ] |
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Dame walk all over them. Sounds like they already are. And the ACC would just bow to Notre Dame at the expense of schools like Clemson. And Clemson is very good at letting the ACC walk all over us.
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All-TigerNet [12550]
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I don't trust them either. We would have to make that in
Jul 9, 2012, 12:28 PM
[ in reply to We'll see. I don't trust ND. ] |
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stone in the contract that the teams they play rotate. If we don't spell it out, they will only play who they want and where they want. And the conference getting all the money to split with all teams is only one aspect. The teams that play Notre Dame will have a recruiting edge on the teams that don't. And I can just smell Notre Dame wanting to play FSU, GT, BC and not Clemson. They would also want to play UNC. Three of those teams we have to play every year.
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All-TigerNet [12550]
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This post is absolutely spot on. And to answer the question
Jul 9, 2012, 12:15 PM
[ in reply to When ND joined the Big East sans football, they agreed ] |
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to #1. How would this help Clemson. It wouldn't. It would actually hurt Clemson as the same chosen schools playing the Irish such as GT, UNC, BC, Miami, FSU could use it as a recruiting tool. I hope Terry Don has enough sense God gave a billy goat to get in the shed and out of the rain and he will vote no on something like this.
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CU Guru [1639]
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Re: I don't think partial is bad
Jul 9, 2012, 11:11 AM
[ in reply to I don't think partial is bad ] |
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If the ACC presidents agree to it. I'm for it even partial membership with 4 ACC football games
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All-TigerNet [12550]
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We can do that without giving a home to their other sports.
Jul 9, 2012, 12:11 PM
[ in reply to I don't think partial is bad ] |
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If they want to talk about how playing a certain number of ACC games helps them with their scheduling and contract and helps us with our contract that is fine. But they have just as much to gain there as we do. So no need to bring the other sports into the conversation.
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Oculus Spirit [94280]
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The home team has rights to all home games.
Jul 9, 2012, 12:22 PM
[ in reply to I don't think partial is bad ] |
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Ours would go to the ACC by contract.
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CU Guru [1895]
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Re: The home team has rights to all home games.
Jul 9, 2012, 1:50 PM
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I'm talking about ND giving those up to the conference.
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Orange Blooded [4947]
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Re: TCI Story on ACC, Notre Dame- say no to partial
Jul 9, 2012, 10:26 AM
[ in reply to Re: TCI Story on ACC, Notre Dame- say no to partial ] |
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I tend to agree with this. Unless it is a partial membership with plans to join in the near future (end of the NBC contract 2015?). The ACC presidents have been very adamant about not letting any partial members join and I hope this remains the case.
The only upside I see, is if ESPN is onboard with a agreement with NBC for a weekly ACC game. This adds extra revenue for the ACC and keeps ND close by in case they are forced to join a conference. It would also solve the problem of the 9th conference game.
If ND comes over as a full member and the ACC goes back to 8 conference games. It would mean every team would only play division members and no more cross division rivals. Hopefully that would also lead to a North and South division line up.
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Commissioner [942]
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Notre Dame joining any conference full-time, went out the
Jul 9, 2012, 10:41 AM
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window, when it was decided that winning a conference is not going to be a prerequisite for making the 4 team playoff.
Notre Dame is not going to share its TV money with the ACC. And if they did, which they won't, we are talking about $2 million/school/annually. That's not exactly a game changer.
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CU Medallion [64693]
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If....
Jul 9, 2012, 10:47 AM
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Notre Dame was to join the ACC as a partial member in all sports except football, what incentive would that create for ESPN to renegotiate its agreement with the ACC? I think the answer is none.
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Orange Blooded [4988]
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If ND agreed to a certain number of football games
Jul 9, 2012, 10:53 AM
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with the ACC each year, then ESPN would have the rights to the games played at ACC sites. That is something they would be interested in.
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Commissioner [942]
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That is so few games though, to make it not very
Jul 9, 2012, 10:59 AM
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meaningful to ESPN.
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Orange Blooded [4988]
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Even if you can secure a couple games each year
Jul 9, 2012, 1:40 PM
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that would be meaningful to ESPN. Of course a couple games isn't going to bring in a substantial amount of money on a new TV deal, but something is better than nothing.
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CU Medallion [64693]
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The only fair way to do it....
Jul 9, 2012, 1:49 PM
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would be for Notre Dame to agree to play EVERY TEAM in the league on a ratating home and away basis. The ACC retains 100% of the revenue for those game played at ACC venues and Notre Dame retains 100% of the revenue for those games played in South Bend. The revenue would be split 50/50 for those games, if any, played at neutral sites.
With conferences continuing to expand, it is going to become more and more difficult for ND to find opponents to schedule. This is ND's biggest incentive IMO.
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CU Medallion [64693]
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There sure are A LOT if "ifs"
Jul 9, 2012, 11:11 AM
[ in reply to If ND agreed to a certain number of football games ] |
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If ND joins the ACC as a member in everything but football
If ND agrees to schedule several games annually with ACC schools
If ND agrees to play those games on a home and away basis
I just don't think Notre Dame has any real incentive to do anything for anybody but Notre Dame.
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Orange Blooded [4693]
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Re: There sure are A LOT if "ifs"
Jul 9, 2012, 11:27 AM
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one more
What if ESPN is offering ND their very own "Longhorn Network", and the ACC agrees that everyone now keeps their 3rd tier media rights?
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CU Medallion [64693]
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Notre Dame already has its own "Longhorn Network"
Jul 9, 2012, 11:36 AM
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It's called NBC and Notre Dame retains 100% of the revenue that it generates.
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Orange Blooded [4947]
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Re: Notre Dame already has its own "Longhorn Network"
Jul 9, 2012, 11:39 AM
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Yeah right ND is not getting near the revenue NBC produces. Right now ND is getting $15million a year from their contract. Do you really think NBC is only making $15 from ND games?
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CU Medallion [64693]
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The point that I am making is.....
Jul 9, 2012, 11:50 AM
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whatever ND is getting from NBC, they aren't sharing it and they have no incentive to do so.
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Orange Blooded [4767]
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Not holding my breath
Jul 9, 2012, 11:37 AM
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(1) ND has been teasing every major conference short of the Pac-12 and possibly the SEC for what, over a decade now?
(2) ND has no incentive to join a conference
(3) The ACC has no incentive to let ND join in everything but football, plus it shatters their "no partials" platform
(4) I have to openly wonder what kind of competitive advantages and perks the rest of the ACC would have to give to ND to have them join as a full member--talk about bending over and taking it. And why, exactly, do we need another prima donna university in the conference to make our lives miserable?
(5) Even if they did manage to convince ND to join as a full member, they'd have to come in with another team to keep even divisions--and short of Penn State, all available options water down the football product
(6) I am d@mn tired of rumors, 99.9% of which turn out to be nothing more than wild speculation.
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Orange Blooded [4693]
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Re: TCI Story on ACC, Notre Dame
Jul 9, 2012, 11:40 AM
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100% of the revenue.
That is a pretty good deal.
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All-TigerNet [12550]
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Thanks for the article, very interesting, but I have to say
Jul 9, 2012, 12:10 PM
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Full member or nothing. In other words, no membership just for non-football sports. Now, if Notre Dame wants to get into some sort of football scheduling agreement and keep its independence, that is worth taking a look at the money possibilities. But no way should the ACC agree to give membership to non-football only.
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Oculus Spirit [94280]
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Yeah, if the ACC wasn't a basketball first conference as...
Jul 9, 2012, 12:44 PM
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a whole, I'd say you're right. However, we are viewing this as a football only issue. Swofford will not see it that way. In order to have the football oriented schools sign off on the ND 'half-membership,' ND will have to agree to play the football schools giving each a home/away game.
This works well for ND. Their schedule would be no more difficult than the B1G teams they now play and the draw would be just a good with Clemson, FSU, GT and VT on the docket.
This works well for Clemson. All Clemson/ND road games would be primetime. All our home games would most likely be tier 1. Death Valley would be the center of the Universe on that weekend. $$$
As far as giving ND a shot at the OB, they would never qualify as conference champs or the second conference team included in the system. They would gain no advantage in the system at all and be left to the mercy of the selection committee.
On a personal note, ND is the team I hate the most. I actually watch their games just to see them lose. No matter who ND plays I'm pulling for the other team.
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Legend [16342]
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Any football-oriented program such as ND would be
Jul 9, 2012, 1:00 PM
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making a huge financial and scheduling sacrifice to join the ACC at this time under its current structure. They would be giving away millions in media rights revenue plus losing a home game every other year for the 9th conference game.
Perhaps the ACC works out an annual neutral site deal with ND and grants them Orange Bowl access under certain conditions with a fixed payout amount. Whatever it is, it won't be full membership as the league exists today. Catholics may run some charities, but their football program isn't one of them.
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Oculus Spirit [94280]
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No on neutral sights.
Jul 9, 2012, 1:09 PM
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The only way Clemson signs off on ND as a partial partership is if ND gives Clemson a home/away contract. If the football schools stick together on this issue the basketball school will get all the ND basketball they want and the revenues from ND coming to our fields will give us a payday too.
ND loses nothing in this deal.
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Legend [16342]
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Right. I wouldn't be in favor of ND joining in any other
Jul 9, 2012, 1:15 PM
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sports period if they're not all in across the board. What I was stating is that I wouldn't be averse to a league-wide annual neutral site match-up as part of a deal to include them as an Orange Bowl possibility, provided the qualifications are significant enough.
Another thing to consider could be that ESPN might be willing to drop the 9th conference game requirement in their deal with us if ND would agree to play a partial and more organized ACC football schedule. I'm sure that 3-4 ND broadcasts on ESPN annually would more than make up for the kind of games that the 9th conference game is going to provide everyone. It would also save Clemson, FSU, Va. Tech and other league football programs millions of dollars in lost revenue and SOS issues.
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CU Medallion [64693]
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With conferences continuing to pursue expansion....
Jul 9, 2012, 2:21 PM
[ in reply to Any football-oriented program such as ND would be ] |
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it is going to become increasingly more difficult for ND to find legitimate Division 1 oppoents to schedule. This is the biggest incentive for ND to play ball IMO.
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Legend [16342]
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This is true, especially dates in October and November in
Jul 9, 2012, 2:50 PM
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the heart of conference play.
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CU Medallion [64693]
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Over the last five years....
Jul 9, 2012, 3:03 PM
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Notre Dame has played oppoents from the Pac 12 and Big 10 thirty times. That is an average of six meetings per season.
With the Big 10 and the Pac 12 planning to cross schedule games against each other, it is unlikely teams like Michigan, Michigan State, Purdue, Southern Cal, UCLA and Stanford will continue to schedule games against Notre Dame.
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Legend [15757]
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Wait...ND is offering to tie up yet another OOC game?
Jul 9, 2012, 2:56 PM
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So, Clemson now is scheduled to play nine conference games instead of eight, automatically plays South Carolina and now may automatically have to play Notre Dame?
Don't get me wrong...I see the benefit of playing ND. But man...a little variety, please. That will leave ONE game OOC that isn't already decided, and that game will almost certainly be a Furman-type opponent. Don't we want to play Georgia or Tennessee or some of the other southern teams?
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Orange Blooded [4947]
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Re: Wait...ND is offering to tie up yet another OOC game?
Jul 9, 2012, 2:57 PM
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I feel confident the ACC will revert back to an 8 game conference schedule if the ND thing gets worked out in this fashion.
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Legend [15757]
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That would certainly help, although I still say that we
Jul 9, 2012, 3:03 PM
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should hold firm on the "all or nothing" approach. It has worked for us and I think it's right. All you have to do is look at the Big East - Notre Dame could have saved that conference with a one sentence press release. "Notre Dame has decided to join the Big East as a full member, including football." That note in 2004 probably would have ended all of the migrations. But they were too greedy. I have a hard time starting a relationship with a school that let the last conference it "dated" die like that.
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