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Oculus Spirit [91219]
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Stunning...Coach Howard only had 39% of his games at DV
Jun 26, 2013, 5:12 PM
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Saying, out of the 295 or so games he coached in for Clemson..only 39% of them were played at our stadium (or at home as it would be)!
This is a stunner even to me..and makes sense why his win-loss record isn't as good as we'd (or he'd) like.
Reasons are: Our stadium was too small, the other team had the power or money, etc. Even the SC legislature allowed the Coots make us play them every year for 60+ years at The State Fairgrounds until they came up to Tigertown in 1960.
Same for GT, UGA mostly & others like Auburn or Bama. Talk about discrimination...Unbelievable!
gOtiGERS!
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Legend [18772]
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Honestly, Frank's record reflects his ability as a coach.
Jun 26, 2013, 5:23 PM
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He did a lot for Clemson, but he remained a head coach too long. Not knocking the man as he is a huge part of our tradition. Bobby, Bear and Joe Pa also stayed around too long.
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All-TigerNet [11934]
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Re:, Frank's record
Jun 26, 2013, 5:30 PM
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If he could have predicted how negatively the ACC's more stringent academic requirements were going to impact his ability to stay competitive in the 1960s, I feel sure Frank would have given serious consideration to leaving Clemson for another job, or retiring after the big bowl win over TCU in 1959.
Frank did stay too long, but not entirely because of declining coaching ability. The entire conference suffered competitively from a playing field that was tilted away from the ACC toward the SEC and the independents.
Of course, it was a self-inflicted wound by the ACC, but back then basically only Clemson cared a great deal about being able to compete outside the conference ... well, I suppose SCAR did since they left the ACC partially over the issue.
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All-TigerNet [11024]
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Yup--the ACCs higher than the NCAA minimums
Jun 27, 2013, 9:09 AM
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on SAT kept a lot of kids out of Clemson We were fighting with 1 hand behind our backs vs the Georgias and Auburns of the world. When the 800 rule was thrown out around 1973, we began to see an uptick in CU football later in the decade and we win it all in 1981.
I think the extra year of probation may in some ways been revenge because it was 2 CU athletes who sued the ACC to do away with the rule...sheer specualtion on my part...I think SC may still be in the ACC if they had waited on the results of the suit.
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All-TigerNet [14090]
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First 20 years were great, but the last ten years went….
Jun 27, 2013, 2:58 PM
[ in reply to Honestly, Frank's record reflects his ability as a coach. ] |
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from being mediocre to not a very good team. He is in the College Football Hall of Fame, and was one of the most respected coaches in College Football during his time. Who cares if the last 10 years affected his overall record, when he accomplished so much for Clemson his first 20 seasons while playing a majority of the games away.
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All-TigerNet [11934]
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Re: Stunning...Coach Howard only had 39% of his games at DV
Jun 26, 2013, 5:25 PM
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It's true that Coach Howard was not particularly adamant about equitable home & home arrangements with opponents, particularly certain opponents.
Back in 1940s and 1950s, playing half of your games at home would be about as much as you could hope for under any circumstances, so if it's accurately calculated, the 39% you cite still isn't all that shocking.
Clemson being a very rural location with a small student body and fan base made it easy for the AD to calculate the financial advantages of always going to places like Ga Tech in Atlanta and for accepting less than favorable match-ups with other larger, higher profile schools just to get the game and the pay check.
If you look at old photos of the largely empty stands in DV for the average game back in the day, you can see why a full house in Atlanta was financially preferable to both schools.
However, the long-standing one-sided arrangement with SCAR was initially, I believe theoretically based on geographic proximity for the majority of the states college football fans. At least that was what they said all those year, LOL.
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Hall of Famer [22965]
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The whole "home game" business is one reason myself
Jun 26, 2013, 6:14 PM
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and lots of other, uh, "old-timers" (btw--congrats on your retirement!) still "hate" GaTech. After the expansion to DV that took the seating to above 50,000, GaTech's AD STILL refused to play Clemson on a home and home basis.
Coach Howard wisely told the jackets to shove it. Then, just a few years later, GaTech joined the ACC and wound up having to come to Pickens Co on a regular basis anyhow.
Being wide-eyed and naive, I usually enjoyed Atlanta game weekends during those days, but eating nothing but Varsity food 3 meals a day was starting to get old even then. And I still maintain a healthy dislike for GaTech AND Bill Curry
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Head Coach [761]
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Re: The whole "home game" business is one reason myself
Jun 27, 2013, 8:30 AM
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And Bill Curry is still an a$$hole.
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Trainer [48]
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Re: Stunning...Coach Howard only had 39% of his games at DV
Jun 26, 2013, 8:04 PM
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Any Clemson fan younger than say
50, needs to read one of the many books about Clemson football through the 60's.
What we endured , playing most of our big games away, cause we needed the money to support our program , and how successful we were with questionable officiating at some of those games is REMARKABLE. You look back at what Coach Howard went through and you will see how great he was.
Look back at our teams in the 40's and 50's when we were still playing at Riggs field
We got GT , coached by Pepper Rogers to play us at Clemson, we beat them handily, and they wouldn't come back till joining the ACC. long rant , sorry
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Rock Defender [67]
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Re: Stunning...Coach Howard only had 39% of his games at DV
Jun 26, 2013, 10:25 PM
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Memorial stadium was actually opened in early 1940s, but your point is right. I remember in the 60s, we were getting $100,000 to go to Atlanta which was a pretty good pay day for us. That trip to Atlanta was a great trip and the Clemson people really made an impact to a much smaller Atlanta at that time. We had rare visits by Ala and Aub but I think in many cases we didn't have a straight game for game with them. Actually Howards teams were fairly competitive for the many disadvantages such as SAT requirements and scholarship limits. Maybe winning the ACC wasn't that great of an accomplishment but South Carolina only won it one time while they were in the conference.
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CU Guru [1142]
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Re: Stunning...Coach Howard only had 39% of his games at DV
Jun 26, 2013, 11:07 PM
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Frank Howard was the best football coach this school ever had. He was hired just before the war years, so he really couldn't recruit much until about 1946-47. His record from 1947-1960 is as good as most any coach in the country, and he did it with poor facilities, a shoestring budget, and having to be his own AD and SID. What a great man, and a true ambassador for Clemson and this state!
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All-In [25428]
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I don't recall much discussion during my years at CU in
Jun 27, 2013, 6:53 AM
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the 60's about home/away games other than the home game weekends were highly anticipated. There were pep rallies, dates and family members arriving, CDA-sponsored dances, Homecoming, Tigerama and so forth; so we were excited about those weekends.
Those of us who attended away games, believe it or not, were excited about the chance to visit cities like Atlanta, Raleigh, the DC area, even Columbia, so we looked forward to them, also. Regardless of venue, we reveled in the wins, hated the losses and shrugged off the ties.
The football season in those days culminated in the one game that mattered above all others: Clemson/South Carolina, and I can't begin to describe the anticipation, activities and excitement leading up to that event, but those at CU in those days will remember: staged, large pep rallies with Coach Howard, the team, Tiger Band, the cheerleaders...spontaneous pep rallies across the campus...the "Cock-a-Doodle-Doo" cheer constantly heard all day...student guards patrolling on and off campus looking for Gamecock "invaders"...handmade posters and banners on every wall and hanging from every rafter...and so on.
Yet, throughout it all, the one given was our support of Coach Howard, the team and, of course, Clemson. Naturally, there was some dissension within the ranks, but mostly it remained muted, for most had the same experiences during Rat Season, as I: it was O.K. to disagree among ourselves, but that disagreement had to remain WITHIN our ranks. We believed that we were part of a special brotherhood that transcended all personal considerations; we supported Clemson, its programs and each other, and united, we were ready to battle any and all foes. Those attitudes remain firmly planted in my mind to this day.
Frank Howard has been gone a long time now; but to thousands like me who knew him, he along with Bob Edwards, Walter Cox, Banks McFadden, Joe Sherman, Herman McGee among others were Clemson. Their efforts eventually led to the Danny Ford years...now to the Dabo Swinney era. Thus, they are irreplaceable in Clemson history.
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Oculus Spirit [91219]
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Loved all your posts..especially Hartins & Motor City Bengal
Jun 27, 2013, 8:32 AM
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Didn't know old Frank Howard facts would bring out the best in so many Tiger fans & posters! Good stuff & thoughts and feelings.
gOtiGERS!
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Head Coach [761]
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Junkie [515]
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Even more reason why our record vs. SC could be WORSE
Jun 27, 2013, 9:02 AM
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65-41 with about 75% of those being played in Columbia. Imagine if we had them AT HOME every other year for those first 60 years...
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Hall of Famer [23258]
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Getting the 4 lane 123 Bypass back in the 60s helped for
Jun 27, 2013, 9:42 AM
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a straight shot 4 lane Highway from Greenville to Clemson. That helped to get more home games for Clemson, but it was kind of too late to help Howard. He pushed for that for a long time from what I've read.
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Oculus Spirit [91219]
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Yep "BigA131", Howard told me personally at age 70+ that he
Jun 27, 2013, 2:34 PM
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helped his cause concerning the desired 4-lane from G'ville to Clemson..by telling highway patrol people to sit on their arses if they would and allow the big wheels from Columbia complain about the terrible traffic tie-ups in & out of Clemson during the SC-CU game..and eventually they'd get some money allocated to build that "Frank Howard" Highway..which they did BUDDY!
gOTiGERs!
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