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Replies: 68
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Hall of Famer [24424]
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Point of clarification on DJU.
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Aug 24, 2024, 10:21 PM
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I'm not trying to be a DJU apologist. He did not play nearly as well as I was hoping or even expecting.
The reports out of fall practices were that he was throwing the deep ball well. We have lots and lots of speed (albeit young and unproven) at WR. The game plan, allegedly, was run the ball and when GT loaded the box to stop the run, beat the corners over the top.
I saw DJ throw 4 go patterns. Only one was close enough where the guy could even get his hands on the ball. He was open. If DJ had thrown a decent, not great just decent, pass it would have been a TD. The other 3 were not within 5 yards yards of the receiver. He got bailed out on one with a PI call, but it was a horrible pass.
He appeared to be going through progressions early in the game, not locking onto one receiver like he did at Clemson. But, with the camera angle it was hard to tell if there were open receivers he didn't see.
All I'm saying is he wasn't the reason we lost. 19-27 for 193 yards when the running game is non-existent isn't great, but it is not horrible. I didn't see him force passes into double coverage.
I saw a quarterback who could manage the game and not make stupid mistakes that cost you the game. But, I didn't see a QB who could put the team on his shoulders and carry them to victory.
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Hall of Famer [21659]
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Wish you could go back
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Aug 24, 2024, 10:26 PM
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and read all the threads from his last season here.
So much of this.
He’s not any good.
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110%er [5685]
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Re: Wish you could go back
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Aug 24, 2024, 11:12 PM
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Seriously - this was every game with Clemson. Stack the box and make DJ beat you. Who didn’t see this coming?
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Orange Blooded [4072]
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Re: Wish you could go back
Aug 25, 2024, 2:35 PM
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Exactly right. Our opponents stacked the box and made DJU beat them with his arm. Unfortunately, he couldn’t beat the good teams. He just doesn’t have it. The same thing is going to happen at FSU until they bench him. I’m seeing a 9-3 season at best, maybe 8-4.
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Legend [16651]
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Sounds very familiar to a lot of us.
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Aug 24, 2024, 10:26 PM
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DJ didn't lose the game, but he sure didn't do much to win it.
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Heisman Winner [115699]
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He has all of the arm talent in the world
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Aug 24, 2024, 10:26 PM
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and does his best work when improvising. But It seemed to me like the coaches had him on a leash early on, I guess they were expecting to win in the trenches and play bully ball.. It was not until late in the game when trailing that he completed a couple of long throws on your last drive. And that look on his face after the final horn sounded, we have seen that before. When Cade took his Job Against UNC in the 2022 ACC title game, he had all but given up, just saying.
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CU Guru [1859]
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Is accuracy not arm talent? (Serious question)***
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Aug 24, 2024, 10:49 PM
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Heisman Winner [115699]
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I see at noire as
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Aug 24, 2024, 11:42 PM
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more decision-making, like throwing a rocket on a simple swing pass, not being on the same page with his receivers, timing, poor decisions, etc.. As far as pure arm talent, he is as good as they get. It is a shame, all the talent in the world, NFL frame, but cannot read a defense, and as I said, he does his best work when the play breaks down and his receivers have time to get WIDE open. I still think he gets a free-agent deal. But he seems to have too many ups and downs and that is mental.
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Asst Coach [729]
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Re: I see at noire as
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Aug 25, 2024, 4:58 AM
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Arm strength is not the same as arm talent. Arm talent refers to strength, accuracy, touch, ability to throw a clean spiral, and quick release. DJ never had any accuracy even throwing to wide open receivers. He was incapable of using touch and just rocketed every ball in there. His throws wobbled which make drops more likely. And he has a mediocre release. He only had arm strength. You're just wrong.
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110%er [8923]
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Re: I see at noire as
Aug 25, 2024, 12:10 PM
[ in reply to I see at noire as ] |
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DJU’s deficiencies are complex and therefore interwoven.
IMO, his biggest weakness is a fragile psyche. This is not to suggest a lack of courage (I.e., afraid of taking a hit). Rather, he is so concerned about performing under expectations that he gets the ‘yips.’
Think of a golfer with tremendous ability who, at the driving range, practice putting green, and practice sand trap, hits every shot. He might play very well when shooting 18 with his buddies. When he gets in a tournament, however, he chokes.
This happens in basketball (sadly, I know very well how THAT happens) and, while rebounding and defense will be better when jacked up with anxious emotion, offense (especially shooting … maybe worst with foul shots) goes in the dumper.
IMO, DJU suffers a chronic case of the yips.
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Orange Blooded [2227]
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CU Guru [1479]
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Re: He has all of the arm talent in the world
Aug 24, 2024, 11:54 PM
[ in reply to He has all of the arm talent in the world ] |
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I feel line he is just so late on the trigger. Line ptsd or something…
I see guys come open on a route you should know is going to come open based on pre snap D read and I’m like “throw it! Throw it! He’s open… throw it!” … and then DJ finally throws it late into the cheerleaders. Idk. I was sort of pulling for him for a good showdown when we come to Tally … but… Nerds!
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Varsity [233]
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Re: He has all of the arm talent in the world
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Aug 25, 2024, 12:53 AM
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I feel line he is just so late on the trigger. Line ptsd or something…
I see guys come open on a route you should know is going to come open based on pre snap D read and I’m like “throw it! Throw it! He’s open… throw it!” … and then DJ finally throws it late into the cheerleaders. Idk. I was sort of pulling for him for a good showdown when we come to Tally … but… Nerds!
It is PTSD
From the UGA game 3yrs ago. Prior to that he was tossing passes with ease and you saw what the coaches saw.
But UGA knocked the confidence from him and he's never been quite the same since.
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Orange Blooded [4229]
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Re: He has all of the arm talent in the world
Aug 25, 2024, 3:15 AM
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No.. He wasn't that much better before. He just had Tay Scott, Cornell Powell and ETN bailing him out a TON.
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Orange Blooded [4235]
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Re: He has all of the arm talent in the world
Aug 25, 2024, 12:24 PM
[ in reply to He has all of the arm talent in the world ] |
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He didn't complete long throws.
He had all day to throw and completed a couple of lasers over the middle.
He's always been able to make that throw.
That's all he did in the WF game and he looked all world.
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Hall of Famer [22267]
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What I witnessed was DJ-vu all over again. Youre in for a long season ! Trust me
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Aug 24, 2024, 10:27 PM
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110%er [5151]
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Re: What I witnessed was DJ-vu all over again. Youre in for a long season ! Trust me
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Aug 24, 2024, 10:36 PM
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DJ-vu 😂 that’s a good one!
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Orange Blooded [3263]
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Re: Point of clarification on DJU.
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Aug 24, 2024, 10:29 PM
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That’s kind of who he’s been since that night in Charlotte against Georgia. The big games in relief of Trevor the prior year are a distant memory. I guess we won’t ever quite understand how he developed into this version. It’s now three systems and three different coaching staffs trying to get more out of him.
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Orange Blooded [2538]
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Re: Point of clarification on DJU.
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Aug 24, 2024, 10:32 PM
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The pass that framed it for me ( and I did not watch the entire game ) was a pass he made across the middle that was medium deep. The pass was completed . . BUT he threw it to the wrong side of the receiver. The received had to stop and catch the ball, which meant immediately there were two GT defenders there as well. So it goes down as a completed pass for 20-25 or more yards, whatever it was. But if he led the receiver correctly, it would have gone for much more. This shows, to me, exactly what DJ is and has been. This is a huge difference for someone that can do those "little" things to make a difference. It was a completed pass, decent yardage, but could have been much , much more. That is what you get with DJ.
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CU Guru [1533]
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Re: Point of clarification on DJU.
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Aug 24, 2024, 10:34 PM
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You are one among the few posters here i look forward to reading. I didn't see the game but when you're talking about passes that would be touchdowns had they been thrown within range of the receiver it real sounds like the DJ we knew at Clemson. I don't want to busy on a college kid, but I do have to question why FSU thought he gave them a better chance to win than other possible candidates given his body of work.
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Orange Blooded [4685]
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Re: Point of clarification on DJU.
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Aug 24, 2024, 10:40 PM
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Norvell hit the nail on the head:
“Offensively, we have to be more explosive. I thought we had some missed opportunities there. We got to create the explosive play. They did a good job of trying to stack the box and get the safety down, definitely gave us some challenges in certain fits in the run game, but at the end of the day, we've got to control us”
That’s coach speak for: “theres only 3 defenders in pass coverage and DJ ain’t reading it and connecting down field”
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Oculus Spirit [85760]
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What are they saying about him on fsu message boards?***
Aug 24, 2024, 10:41 PM
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Hall of Famer [24424]
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Typical reaction of fans. Here are some things I've read....
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Aug 24, 2024, 11:50 PM
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Bench DJ and play the freshman.
Bench the entire defense and play the young guys.
Fire Norvell, he's worse than Jimbo.
Fire the entire defensive staff.
We have no talent anywhere at any position.
Etc. Fans overreact. After a win, "We're invincible." After a loss, "We won't win another game this year."
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Oculus Spirit [85760]
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#3 sounds pretty harsh.***
Aug 24, 2024, 11:54 PM
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110%er [5151]
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Re: #3 sounds pretty harsh.***
Aug 25, 2024, 12:12 AM
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Anybody know what ole Jimbo is up to?
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110%er [6180]
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Re: #3 sounds pretty harsh.***
Aug 25, 2024, 7:55 AM
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Heard he was down in Cancun soaking up some rays, drinking Pina Coladas and a chick on each arm. 88 big ones gives one a certain amount of clout.
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110%er [5305]
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Re: #3 sounds pretty harsh.***
Aug 25, 2024, 9:34 AM
[ in reply to Re: #3 sounds pretty harsh.*** ] |
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Jimbo Fishbait is out in his back yard, yelling at the kids in the neighborhood to get off his lawn, then kicking his poor little puppy and dog-cussing it all the way back into the house. In other words, he is still doing what he has always done, be a potty mouthed little man with a Napoleonic Complex and a HUGE head! That is all.
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Oculus Spirit [95252]
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"Bench DJ and play the freshman."
Aug 25, 2024, 10:22 AM
[ in reply to Typical reaction of fans. Here are some things I've read.... ] |
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Not yet, give the freshman some snaps and let him feel the speed for a few games first. Then bench DJ and start the kid. Next year might be a good year so yeah, this one is going to be long an laborious.
I'm really sorry. For you personally, I wish football was more fun. Just as much, I'd like to see FSU be better because a good FSU team makes Clemson look better.
Message was edited by: ClemsonTiger1988®
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Orange Blooded [4584]
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Re: Typical reaction of fans. Here are some things I've read....
Aug 25, 2024, 2:12 PM
[ in reply to Typical reaction of fans. Here are some things I've read.... ] |
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That’s not my take.. Honestly I don’t respect the way FSU is building their program with another 17 transfers on the team this year after having over 22 the past two years. I have no respect for not graduating these kids and paying them to play upfront after tampering with them. I personally think lifting a trophy that way is darn right criminal. Georgia has a 41% gradation rate compared to our 99%. They will probably beat the snot out of us with a bunch of Junior and Senior NFL guys bought and paid for. Nothing against you Bret you are a good guy and was most gracious last year after your team beat us using the same strategy.
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Rock Defender [68]
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Rock Defender [68]
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Rock Defender [68]
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110%er [7070]
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It was blatantly obvious fsu gameplanned around his shortcomings as a qb
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Aug 24, 2024, 10:45 PM
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Its didnt work for Clemson, it didnt work for Oregon state, and its not going to work for fsu. Why programs keep fooling themselves with this guy is one of lifes mysteries.
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CU Medallion [52277]
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Re: Point of clarification on DJU.
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Aug 24, 2024, 11:03 PM
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It's just like Dabo used to coach speak about. The kid can do it in practice but not live action.
Norvell got fooled but I don't know how. An average qb with some wheels would have won you the game. Plenty in the portal would have sufficed.
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Asst Coach [729]
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Re: Point of clarification on DJU.
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Aug 25, 2024, 5:00 AM
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I don't buy that. FSU got whipped in the trenches on both sides of the ball. They were the worst team. Special teams made it look less decisive than the game actually was.
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CU Medallion [55275]
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Re: Practice is different
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Aug 24, 2024, 11:13 PM
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than being in a live game. DJU showed what the world what he has in his years at Clemson and OSU.
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CU Guru [1560]
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Brett, he didn't lose the game.
Aug 24, 2024, 11:21 PM
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FSU's atrocious litany of missed tackles did that.
Y'all's defense looked really bad, especially the line.
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Hall of Famer [24424]
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You and I agree.
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Aug 24, 2024, 11:51 PM
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Read my other post with my analysis of the game.
We got slobberknocked between the tackles, both sided of the LOS.
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110%er [5305]
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Re: You and I agree.
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Aug 25, 2024, 9:39 AM
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Bret. I love your posts. Honest, to the point and always accurate in your assumptions. I have thought about going onto a FSU site and do the same thing from a Clemson perspective but I don't want my house burned and my cattle stolen by a bunch of mad Indians with war paint on their faces. What site would you suggest? jb
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Varsity [237]
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Re: Brett, he didn't lose the game.
Aug 25, 2024, 12:29 AM
[ in reply to Brett, he didn't lose the game. ] |
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Agreed he didn't, but he also didn't really do anything to help them win it either outside of that last TD drive of theirs. He did convert some pretty passes on 4th down that drive, without being too far off from the receiver. But that is one drive, I watched so many of his other passes either be short yardage (either but coaching design or him not pushing) or his usual feet/over the head passes that when caught had the receiver surrounded by defenders.
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Commissioner [958]
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Re: Point of clarification on DJU.
Aug 24, 2024, 11:22 PM
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I have not looked closely at the stats but I don’t recall many explosive plays for FSU. In today’s game you need those unless your talent is so much better that you can hammer the other side. I think a lot of people thought FSU was that much better than GT. They say the biggest improvement in a season comes between the 1st and 2nd games. Jury is out on DJ and FSU until seeing how that game goes. Unless your D line gets better quickly I think there might be trouble with trying to rely only on run game and check down passes. Oct 5 may be huge to determine 2 seasons.
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110%er [7120]
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Re: Point of clarification on DJU.
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Aug 24, 2024, 11:46 PM
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just a non passionate participant in every game
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Rock Defender [68]
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Re: Point of clarification on DJU.
Aug 25, 2024, 12:07 AM
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He should stick to baseball as a pitcher.... that much velocity with knuckle ball he would be unhittable
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Orange Blooded [4777]
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Re: Point of clarification on DJU.
Aug 25, 2024, 7:26 AM
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Couldn't get it over the plate though.
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All-TigerNet [10981]
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All-TigerNet [13757]
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When you say
Aug 25, 2024, 12:16 AM
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DJ Shooeygivetheballaway really fast I can’t tell the difference from his real surname.
Try it.
All kidding aside bretfsu, hope you’re doing well beyond one bad day in Ireland.
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Scout Team [166]
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Re: When you say
Aug 25, 2024, 2:19 AM
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DJ Shooeygivetheballaway really fast I can’t tell the difference from his real surname.
Try it.
All kidding aside bretfsu, hope you’re doing well beyond one bad day in Ireland.
Haha, awesome! Now that's stuck in my head.
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All-Pro [653]
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Re: Point of clarification on DJU.
Aug 25, 2024, 6:44 AM
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GT has improved and may be better than most of the teams he played against last year. However DJ is a second slow to react, but quick to tuck and run. When he runs, he can manage to get a few yards usually. He has moments of success but he misses a lot because he won’t take a hit. IMHO.
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All-Pro [653]
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Re: Point of clarification on DJU.
Aug 25, 2024, 6:45 AM
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Also, the GT QB was more than willing to take a hit. Sometimes to a fault. It’s a long season.
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All-Pro [659]
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Re: Point of clarification on DJU.
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Aug 25, 2024, 7:38 AM
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The loss is not on DJU. People that think they know football don't have a clue. IF our defense plays like FSU against Ga., we will get beat by 30(at least). FSU was not a physical foot ball team and this game is all about physicality- witness GT. We will find out if our coaches have improved from last year to now. All hands on deck for 60 minutes. GO TIGERS !
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110%er [6632]
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Sorry Bret, You're Wrong On DJU
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Aug 25, 2024, 7:39 AM
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First, I think you're one of the best posters so what I say is not an attack.
Friend, your sound like a lot of DJU apologist when he was at Clemson. There was always this feeling that DJU just needs a little help or he will develop.
After 3 years of starting DJ is as good as he'll ever be.
GT beat FSU because their QB is a scrapper. He made big plays with both his arm an feet. DJU is simply not capable of making the plays the GT QB made.
Don't expect many games where FSU will blow the doors off of any opponent. Every game is going to be a street fight because teams know that stacking the box and making DJU beat you with his arm and decision making is the key.
I just hope DJU doesn't get benched before we play FSU.
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110%er [7070]
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That FSU offense is incredibly hamstrung, BECAUSE of DJ
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Aug 25, 2024, 10:28 AM
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As I mentioned, they gameplanned around his deficiencies, it was obvious from the outset. So yes, in way, they did lose because of him.
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Asst Coach [749]
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Re: Point of clarification on DJU.
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Aug 25, 2024, 7:49 AM
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BretFSU, hear me when I say this. He's a fourth year guy. He's 6'5", 252lbs and runs probably a 4.7 or so. His arm throws a baseball 97 mph. I'm not being funny, I'm being serious. Quit making excuses for him. He's EXACTLY what he showed last night. Thats what you're going to get every single game. The things people miss though are the passes that seem non important, but could be. There's a random 5 yard out in the 2nd qtr that has tons of room to run, and he overthrown by 8 yards. There's a 3rd and 6 that he misses him by a few. It's those plays, not the big ones, that go unnoticed but can count the same people miss. He's got a knack for keeping a game close. Just being honest, but the defensive line for FSU was absolute garbage. GT bullied them and they got a little pressure but nothing like last year. Should have been ears pinned the whole game.
I did think FSUs running game was pretty good early, and bullied GTs DL also, and with big DJ I would have thought they would have QB powered their way to a win with some passes sprinkled in. If the plan is to be a balanced offense with DJ I don't see much success this year. If I was OC, I'd turn into a 2/3 headed monster in the run game and come out bullying everyone with random play action passes sprinkled in. I think that gets you 9/10 wins. Regular offense could be worse.
But we know what DJ is. He's exactly what you saw. Which isn't playoff caliber QB.
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110%er [7291]
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Re: Point of clarification on DJU.
4
Aug 25, 2024, 8:03 AM
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What was comical was last year the national media singing the praises of DJU, like he was some wunderkind after getting away from Clemson. 2 minutes of research and they could have seen his stats were nearly IDENTICAL in 2022 at Clemson as they were in 2023 at OSU. The team record was the same as well. But they didn’t let FACTS get in the way of a good story.
DJ is who he is, I see nothing different now from when he was at Clemson. He’s not going to win a game on his own, and probably won’t lose it either.
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Orange Blooded [4235]
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Re: Point of clarification on DJU.
Aug 25, 2024, 12:30 PM
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First game I saw him play on TV at OSU, he tried a 15 yard swing pass out of the backfield and threw it 5 yards short and bounced it to the receiver.
and the announcer says "and that's why he's no longer at Clemson..."
FSU was at least smart enough to not call plays they know he can't make, but the limited offense lets the defense look really good.
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Orange Blooded [3654]
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Re: Point of clarification on DJU.
Aug 25, 2024, 8:12 AM
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I have to say, a lot of the post game analysis by FSU guys sounds REALLY familiar.
I don't think he was THE reason FSU lost (your defense was the most surprising), but he could have been the reason you WON and just wasn't.
Because since that Georgia game in '21, that's just not who he is.
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110%er [7299]
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Re: Point of clarification on DJU.
Aug 25, 2024, 8:24 AM
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His passer rating was basically the same yesterday as has been his whole career. The only thing he didn’t do was commit a stupid turnover
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Athletic Dir [863]
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Re: Point of clarification on DJU.
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Aug 25, 2024, 9:43 AM
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For whatever reason, ESPN has been trying to convince everyone how good he is since he left Clemson.
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Oculus Spirit [95252]
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I'm telling you, Bret...
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Aug 25, 2024, 10:15 AM
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DJ has always been the best QB on every team in practice. That's because he can't be hit in practice. He knows a tap on the shoulder is all a defense can do to him. That makes coaches, media and fans believe he can or will perform as well in live action. He can not and he will not.
I speculate, ok? Imo, DJ is protecting his body due to expectations that one day he will become a millionaire NFL QB. It's possible his dad is in his ear constantly telling him his body is more valuable than any game he is playing now.
Your offense is about as dumb as it can be. I can't believe the GT coach wasn't stacking the box at the first of the game. Now everyone has seen that DJ has not improved from two years ago when he was at Clemson.
Still, some will try to play conservative against you and if your receivers can find a place to stand unimpeded DJ will move you down the field. If he hits one crossing route per game feel fortunate. If he hits two feel blessed but do not let yourself believe he is getting better at hitting laterally moving targets. I did twice and my stupidity made me miserable.
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Varsity [218]
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Re: Point of clarification on DJU.
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Aug 25, 2024, 10:38 AM
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In my opinion, the reason the running game was non-existent, was because of the lack of a downfield threat.
In the first half, there was a stat put up, 11 of the 12 passes to that point were thrown to receivers within 6 yards of the line of scrimmage.
GT did do a great job of disguising their blitz packages on third down, but first and second down, they were were simply loading the box.
In the fourth quarter with FSU needing a touchdown to tie it, DJ started hitting receivers downfield. The difference, GT was only rushing three defenders.
FSU has the receivers and running backs to make plays in space. This was evident when the ball was in their hands.
When DJ was at Clemson, his timing and footwork, when under pressure, suffered. When you look at his games against better defenses while at Oregon State, it was the same.
The kid has talent. He has an arm. I won't sit here and pretend to know what it takes to fix the issue. He could be a great quarterback with an NFL future, but until he figures that out, he will just be an okay quarterback.
Over the last few years, we have been in the same position. Our receivers either couldn't get open or our QB couldn't hit the open target and teams just stacked the box.
The loss to GT is big, but it isn't season defining. Wish you guys the best of luck, outside of one game.
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All-In [28207]
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Re: Point of clarification on DJU.
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Aug 25, 2024, 10:41 AM
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In other words, GT did what EVERY other team did to us when DJU was our QB1. Stack the box, make DJ beat you over the top. And he can't.
Nothing new here.
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Legend [17288]
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I saw a team in Tech play to stop the run and force DJU to beat them,
Aug 25, 2024, 10:57 AM
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which unfortunately he is still not capable of performing. Heading in I believed FSU would need to rush for 250 yards, which they seemed capable of, to win. Tech adjusted remarkably well after that first drive and the game simply played right into their hands from there. It did help that Tech showed up to play and brought a very spirited effort, which you need to win any game.
Not surprised in the outcome here, nor would I be shocked if FSU is 2-2 when our game comes around considering they open SMU's ACC schedule the week prior in Dallas.
Go Tigers!
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Orange Blooded [4235]
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Re: Point of clarification on DJU.
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Aug 25, 2024, 12:21 PM
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Funny, he did exactly what we expected him to do.
Stared down receivers and made good laser throws.
No deep balls connected.
No ability to throw to the flat or throw a receiver open.
No ability to read the defense or find secondary receivers.
and the running game was nonexistent because the defense had no respect for the QB.
Good luck...
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CU Guru [1808]
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Re: Point of clarification on DJU.
Aug 25, 2024, 12:41 PM
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Agree 100% Bret. DJ has a big NFL arm for sure but seems to still struggles with accuracy, although his short pass accuracy was much better than the Clemson version, where he often ground swing passes at their feet and overthrew screens, etc. His touch on short passes seems to have improved too. In reading the defense, to use computer terms, DJ’s microprocessor is not very speedy. He can still be an effective QB and if fsu schemes guys open he will do well. I don’t see him ever being a Joe Burrow - sit in the pocket and pick a team apart.
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Orange Blooded [4584]
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Re: Point of clarification on DJU.
Aug 25, 2024, 2:01 PM
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Jordan Travis would have broken down the GT defense with his legs much less pinpoint passing like he did against us last year. We were stuck with him for two long years and I give him the credit for our falling from elite status. Cade was not great last year but entire offense was young with most receivers being injured. Folks want to know why we only run on SC last year. We had no healthy receiver and an O line that is all back this year except for 1 guy. Hopefully DJ will have grown and be better for you. I was totally shocked to see FSU bring him in. Also pleased😁
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CU Guru [1760]
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Bret,
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Aug 25, 2024, 3:11 PM
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It’s just the defenses choking there plans down to making DJU drive down the field small gains at a time.
Every drive turns into a tooth -pulling, tortuous drive. Witness 2 4th downs in tying drive.
It just doesn’t get any better. And then there was this, his qb rating better than GT qb. It’s always hilarious like that.
I also can’t wait for Big Dave to start blaming norvell and and the team for all this.
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Orange Blooded [3346]
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Re: Point of clarification on DJU.
Aug 25, 2024, 3:35 PM
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We won in spite of him not because of him
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Orange Blooded [2227]
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Re: Point of clarification on DJU.
Aug 25, 2024, 3:47 PM
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He has no instincts. He can't make a quick decision. He second guesses himself,. constantly.
Oh, and he can't throw the deep ball. But, you already found that out
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Orange Blooded [2539]
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DJ might could be a world class javelin thrower.
Aug 25, 2024, 5:55 PM
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prolly missed his true calling.
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