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Replies: 35
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Dynasty Maker [3542]
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So who is creating *depth* from the portal?
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Jan 16, 2025, 8:48 AM
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The portal is mainly used to replace players, not build depth. In fact, all of these programs are losing more than they gain. They’re not building “depth”. A minus number means they’re losing more than they’re gaining. They’re not building “depth”; they’re struggling to fill the roster.
And it’s not like there’s a plethora of elite talent in the portal either. You don’t just pick whatever you want off the 4 and 5 star shelf.
• Ohio State: -5 (5 incoming, 10 outgoing)
• Auburn: -5 (14 incoming, 19 outgoing)
• South Carolina: -6 (8 incoming, 14 outgoing)
• Georgia: -9 (2 incoming, 11 outgoing)
• Florida State: -8 (15 incoming, 23 outgoing)
• N.C. State: -11 (6 incoming, 17 outgoing)
• Virginia Tech: -11 (11 incoming, 22 outgoing)
• Alabama: -17 (6 incoming, 23 outgoing)
• Tennessee: -17 (1 incoming, 18 outgoing)
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Legend [6855]
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seems to be a way to free up scholarships for better programs and pick up an
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Jan 16, 2025, 8:56 AM
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occasional replacement when you have a "miss" with highschool recruiting. Only the lower tier teams are building rosters with transfers.
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Dynasty Maker [3542]
TigerPulse: 96%
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So you agree teams arent building *depth* in the portal?
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Jan 16, 2025, 9:02 AM
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Looks to me like teams are losing depth in the portal.
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Legend [6855]
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elite teams are not building depth. I think some mid teams like coots
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Jan 16, 2025, 9:23 AM
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have done well with the portal, but I highly doubt that is a sustainable model, year after year. It's more likely to be wildly inconsistent ( like FSU)
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Legend [7060]
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Dynasty Maker [3542]
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?? We are minus two.
Jan 16, 2025, 12:01 PM
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Find another relevant program with that small amount of attrition. The numbers clearly show we’re NOT losing the same quantity of guys, i.e., depth.
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Legend [7060]
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not talking about this year***
Jan 16, 2025, 8:41 PM
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Offensive Star [339]
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Re: So who is creating *depth* from the portal?
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Jan 16, 2025, 9:07 AM
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No portal players want to be depth!! They are looking for more playing time. Most will have to step down a level to get what they want. Most never find a new landing spot.
Lack of depth will be a concern for most top level teams. Gotta keep your starters healthy!!
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [100092]
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Turnover speaks the loudest to me.
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Jan 16, 2025, 9:15 AM
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If you've ever been responsible for personnel you understand. If you haven't, you may not.
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Dynasty Maker [3110]
TigerPulse: 69%
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Turnover means one or more of the following:
Jan 16, 2025, 11:48 AM
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More money elsewhere
Better working conditions elsewhere
Leaving personal conflict with a boss/coach
Moving closer to home
More playing time
Better career development elsewhere
Better recreation and/or side projects elsewhere
More desirable degree track elsewhere
I probably missed something. And yes, I've been responsible for personnel.
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [100092]
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Then you've burden the responsibility and acknowledge the potential...
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Jan 16, 2025, 12:03 PM
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embarrassment and shame of hiring an unsuitable person when you have to fire them a couple years later?
Then I ask, did you ever hire someone to fill the gap with them knowing they were place holders until you found the right guy? I have and I've released them with a good severance package as reward for their assistance in me being successful.
But hey, you know all about this right?
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Dynasty Maker [3110]
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I have not
Jan 16, 2025, 2:09 PM
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Where I worked had a very good pre hire screening and testing program, good compensation package, and (mostly) great working conditions.
We had a very good employee-driven involvement and input program.
No embarrassment it shame when I had to fire a couple of people whose performance slipped to unacceptable levels.
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CU Guru [1505]
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All-In [10592]
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Re: So who is creating *depth* from the portal?
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Jan 16, 2025, 9:22 AM
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The portal is mainly used to replace players, not build depth. In fact, all of these programs are losing more than they gain. They’re not building “depth”. A minus number means they’re losing more than they’re gaining. They’re not building “depth”; they’re struggling to fill the roster.
And it’s not like there’s a plethora of elite talent in the portal either. You don’t just pick whatever you want off the 4 and 5 star shelf.
• Ohio State: -5 (5 incoming, 10 outgoing)
• Auburn: -5 (14 incoming, 19 outgoing)
• South Carolina: -6 (8 incoming, 14 outgoing)
• Georgia: -9 (2 incoming, 11 outgoing)
• Florida State: -8 (15 incoming, 23 outgoing)
• N.C. State: -11 (6 incoming, 17 outgoing)
• Virginia Tech: -11 (11 incoming, 22 outgoing)
• Alabama: -17 (6 incoming, 23 outgoing)
• Tennessee: -17 (1 incoming, 18 outgoing)
I believe you are missing a piece of the puzzle. To have a full roster, you need 85 players (at least for now). Using the coots as an example, you have them at -6 in terms of the transfer portal. If they over signed by six players from the HS ranks, they would be at the 85 total meaning if no one else bails out, they would be at the full allowable scholarship limit which should provide depth.
Looking at our situation, Dabo has chosen to use HS players many would consider projects to drive us to at or near the 85 limit. These guys might develop into great players in year 3/4 but are not near ready to contribute early in their career. The alternative would be use the portal to grab guys who will never be starters but are at least functional to play immediately. We all noticed last season that our defensive backups were not ready for prime time as we were forced to play young guys who were not yet functional. The clear answer IMO is finding the right mix out of HS school and the portal to field a functional two deep every year. It seems Dabo has adjusted which is a good sign but IMO more adjustments will be needed.
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Dynasty Maker [3110]
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Good point******
Jan 16, 2025, 10:31 AM
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Dynasty Maker [3542]
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Dabo isnt doing anything differently except we signed some this year.
Jan 16, 2025, 11:37 AM
[ in reply to Re: So who is creating *depth* from the portal? ] |
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But the topic was depth - do you agree the best teams aren’t building “depth” through the portal? That’s a common myth I see on this site. Find me an elite program who is making depth through the portal. Starters yeah, but not depth. We signed positions where we need starters and a rotational guy.
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CU Guru [1505]
TigerPulse: 87%
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If you really believe we did nothing different regarding our approach..
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Jan 16, 2025, 1:58 PM
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to signing portal players then either you have a remarkable ability to suspend disbelief or are incredibly naive-
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Dynasty Maker [3542]
TigerPulse: 96%
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Sorry bubba, but you mustve missed the QBs we signed along with the OL
Jan 16, 2025, 2:08 PM
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we missed on these last few years. We tried. The only difference this year is we were successful in filling the needs.
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Dynasty Maker [3110]
TigerPulse: 69%
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Colorado, Oregon, Miami, Michigan.
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Jan 16, 2025, 11:52 AM
[ in reply to Re: So who is creating *depth* from the portal? ] |
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For every example, there's a counter example.
It's also not just about building depth.
See Carson Beck to Miami. Smart move for him..
He can make more NIL there than as a rookie in the NFL. He can also improve his draft stock after his injury at Georgia.
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Top TigerNet [28603]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Miami did not build depth in the portal.
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Jan 16, 2025, 12:01 PM
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Did you see how bad their back up QB played in the bowl game. They had Cam Ward, from the portal, and no one else. Who does Colorado have ready to take over for Sanders? Who does Oregon have ready to take over for Gabriel? Michigan thought they had someone ready to take over next year, but he hit the portal so they don't.
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Dynasty Maker [3542]
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Orange Blooded [2198]
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Re: So who is creating *depth* from the portal?
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Jan 16, 2025, 9:30 AM
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I think the biggest affect of the portal/nil era is the amount of parity it has created. In the past, the powerful programs, were able to establish a two deep rotation that allowed them to freely substitute and the talent level on the field didn’t significantly drop. Most of the transfers come from the ranks of the guys that are looking g to improve playing time. Most will not leave their current program to add depth as two/three deep player.
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Orange Phenom [14469]
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Hopefully this will hold true for South Carolina,
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Jan 16, 2025, 10:14 AM
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that they will miserably fail in their quest to load the roster!!!
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Paw Warrior [4639]
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Re: So who is creating *depth* from the portal?
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Jan 16, 2025, 10:46 AM
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You aren’t counting incoming freshman. Every team will fill the scholarship limit. I believe that’s now 105 or something. Whether they take a lot of portal players or take more from HS.
Building depth? I guess no one can build the kind of depth we used to could build because players won’t stick around. They’re going to go be a starter somewhere or think they are at least. But I do think a lot of portal players are bing used as depth even if that doesn’t mean they are as good as the depth players prior to the portal.
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Dynasty Maker [3542]
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I posted a bunch of teams who are losing much more than they are gaining.
Jan 16, 2025, 11:38 AM
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Can you cite some elite teams who are creating depth through the portal?
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CU Guru [1505]
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Everyone suffers a net drag due to TP/NIL...
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Jan 16, 2025, 11:44 AM
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it's just a matter of how quickly each school can react and counter to offset the annual loss. No one is immune but prudent roster management and deep NIL pockets is the best remedy-
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Dynasty Maker [3542]
TigerPulse: 96%
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Yep. We were -2. Hard to find anyone with less attrition.
Jan 16, 2025, 11:56 AM
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Still, nobody relevant is building depth via the portal. “Hey let’s just go get some elite players from the portal to build depth”. I see that all the time on here, but that’s just not happening anywhere relevant. Teams are losing more kids to transfers than they are gaining. They are not building depth through the portal. Kids don’t transfer to be depth.
I guess my main thing is I wish people would understand that. Teams are getting portal guys to start. Dabo has said for years - we’ll look in the portal if we have an absolute need. We needed a DE, a LB, and a rotational WR. So we got them.
But we’re not just going to pick a bunch of elite players to build depth. They just aren’t out there like that - picking up elite depth in the portal.
In my estimation, there’s FAR TOO MUCH hype about portal players. Talking heads and fans want to act like teams are elevating their programs by signing portal kids. I don’t see that. I see programs cycling through more than they gain. They get starters by necessity, to replace guys who are transferring out. It’s a net loss actually.
Some teams live much more in the portal, but you don’t find elite teams doing that. If an elite team brings in a portal guy, it’s with the intention of starting immediately. The portal kids aren’t moving to be “depth”.
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Top TigerNet [28603]
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Portal has definitely hurt depth.
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Jan 16, 2025, 11:56 AM
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Kids want playing time. Look at how few schools have a quality back up quarterback. I can count them on one hand and have fingers left over. And, if they do have a quality back up, he's probably hitting the portal.
A redshirt sophomore doesn't want to be "in the rotation," he wants to start. And, if he can't start at Big Tech U, he'll likely enter the portal.
I've given this example before on how much times have changed. In the 90's during FSU's run, they went through 4 quarterbacks in a row that didn't start until they were redshirt juniors (4th year in the program). That included a couple of Heisman winners.
Back when Tom Osborne was winning at Nebraska he said, "I want an offensive line with five seniors who shave 3 times a day as my starters." (That meant he needed 5 juniors willing to wait until they were seniors to start.)
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Dynasty Maker [3542]
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Spot on Bret. The exact opposite of what some guys think.***
Jan 16, 2025, 11:58 AM
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Orange Phenom [14193]
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Well if you lose 10 guys that aren't contributing
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Jan 16, 2025, 12:08 PM
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at all, and 4 of the 5 guys you bring in from the portal do contribute, that looks like +4 in my book.
Most of the players leaving the top programs are doing so because they can't cut the mustard there. There are obviously exceptions, but if you think Ohio State lost 10 contributors, I would say you're mistaken.
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Dynasty Maker [3542]
TigerPulse: 96%
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Usually the guys coming in left their previous school because they
Jan 16, 2025, 12:13 PM
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weren’t playing enough.
You’re talking about starters too. Not depth.
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Valley Legend [12504]
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Re: So who is creating *depth* from the portal?
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Jan 16, 2025, 1:52 PM
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You forgot to factor in recruits. That brings the net number to positive rendering your argument moot.
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Dynasty Maker [3542]
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Yeah, but those are recruits not portal kids.
Jan 16, 2025, 2:04 PM
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Yeah, you can build depth through recruiting of HS, but I’m talking about the portal. Maybe I’m misunderstanding your meaning, otherwise my “argument” remains.
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Legend [6785]
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Re: So who is creating *depth* from the portal?
Jan 16, 2025, 2:01 PM
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Well the basic idea is to have the guys coming in be better players than those leaving. If you trade 10 guys buried on the depth chart for 6 guys who will start, or at least play a lot, then you're effectively created depth that you didn't have before. Of course you can never guarantee those you bring in will perform but you've usually got a very good idea of what the ones leaving are capable of. It's an art, not a science, for sure.
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Orange Elite [5380]
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As mentioned ad nausem....
Jan 16, 2025, 2:25 PM
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Gotta use HS recruiting as your big base and use portal as needed. In the best years, you should only have to sprinkle in portal. But even the best cultured programs cannot counteract, absorb or ignore the holes created. Some kids will leave, most depth pieces, no matter how good you treat them. Clemson treats kids very well.
Knowing the above, you better be ELITE at HS recruiting.
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Orange Elite [5118]
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Re: So who is creating *depth* from the portal?
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Jan 16, 2025, 3:58 PM
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Alexander and Smith are mainly depth pieces, both will play at times, but neither will start.
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Replies: 35
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