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Paw Warrior [4829]
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Is anyone else saddened by the mens BB team not really being Clemson men?
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Apr 4, 2025, 10:22 AM
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Before you fire off - and then the Legion of Brad calls me Lunatic (when we all know it really is them) - I will pull for whoever ends up in Clemson Jerseys. But, I also grew up Clemson, loved Clemson, and win or lose - students, players - they were Clemson men. “A Clemson Man needs no introduction”.
When we need to add a player or two to fill gaps, I was ok, as it was adding players to Clemson men. But this is totally different. Brad is adding (or will add) more players from other schools than Clemson men. It will not be a Clemson team - it will be a team of a bunch of other schools who Clemson rented. They are not “All-in” on Clemson. They don’t know the legacy and heritage. They won’t know Frank Howard, the rock, Danny Ford, or even Cliff Ellis, Larry Shyatt, Tree Rollins, Skip Wise, Larry Nance, etc etc.
I just think that is sad. When they leave, will they think of themselves being Clemson? Or school X, Y, or Z? They won’t think back to their 4 years learning Campus and friends, pep rallies, the growth of the team and friendships built. I believe they will simply think about the one season they were rented.
Nothing I can do about it. I am much more appreciative of the schools where they recruit and develop players and fill their gaps, not fill their team.
It feels more like a minor league semi pro team than a Clemson team.
I can already hear the Brad buddies try and do math , saying there will be more Clemson men than rentals. That might be true, but only when counting walk-ones and not our starting lineup and key backups.
Anyway, just my opinion anyway.
Be safe and well.
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Rival Killer [2876]
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The times, they are achangin - for better or for worse
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Apr 4, 2025, 10:25 AM
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It’s the latter without a doubt for me.
And, yes, it is sad. We were the lucky ones!
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [101404]
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Grate post. Welcome to major college athletics in 2025.***
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Apr 4, 2025, 10:28 AM
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110%er [4046]
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Re: Is anyone else saddened by the mens BB team not really being Clemson men?
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Apr 4, 2025, 10:30 AM
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Cheer for the laundry my guy. It's a whole new world.
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Orange Phenom [14460]
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Re: Is anyone else saddened by the mens BB team not really being Clemson men?
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Apr 4, 2025, 10:32 AM
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Yep. Just receiving a lot of rent money to come and live and play basketball for a year.
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TigerNet Elite [77855]
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Re: Is anyone else saddened by the mens BB team not really being Clemson men?
Apr 4, 2025, 10:39 AM
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6 on the remaining roster have not played anywhere else. DH, 2 redshirts including Buckner, and 3 incoming freshmen. We had done well on retention in hoops up until this off season. Sadly it will be rare that guys play their whol time at one school
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Game Day Hero [4508]
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No
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Apr 4, 2025, 10:48 AM
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Its the new reality. Big thing now is how good you are at building a team every year.
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Ring of Honor [22221]
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So what's your answer?
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Apr 4, 2025, 10:50 AM
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Last 3 years we were exactly what you stated. Core grew old together. They all graduated. We were returning 2 upperclassmen who began here. Wiggins transferred, Dillon stayed. Guys were weren't going to start or play much transferred except for Jones. We can either sign transfers to fill the holes or a bunch of freshmen no one recruited or signed.
Can't blame the coach. Can't blame the players. It
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Paw Warrior [4829]
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Re: So what's your answer?
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Apr 4, 2025, 10:58 AM
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My answer was how I stated in my original post. Recruit and develop and fill holes. Not fill roster with non Clemson.
Maybe you misread my post, I simply said it was sad.
Do I think coaching is partially responsible, absolutely. Coaching - is the person responsible for talent evaluation, recruiting, and then development. If players don’t develop, it is a failure of talent evaluation or development. Development can be shared if the player does not work hard at it.
The past couple of years have been fine. I never said otherwise. If you read what I wrote, you will again see, that I was saddened by bringing in the majority of our team who are not Clemson men. That is all I said.
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TigerNet Elite [77855]
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Re: So what's your answer?
Apr 4, 2025, 11:03 AM
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It may end up being the majority as portal players. Right now it is 6 Clemson to 3 portal. Dont blink it could change in either direction
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Valley Legend [12157]
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Re: So what's your answer?
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Apr 4, 2025, 11:11 AM
[ in reply to Re: So what's your answer? ] |
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from a 2023 article:
According to Miyakawa’s research, every conference in America lost at least 15% of its players to the transfer portal, with six conferences seeing over 30% of their players hit the portal. Revealing something most fans have already observed, this study shows just how different the college game looks from year to year with the new rules.
In a sport that was already extremely transient compared to other sports due to fewer restrictions on going pro and a higher-than-average transfer rate anyway, men’s college basketball rosters feasibly can see over 50% roster turnover from one season to the next.
The numbers are higher this year as players are trying to hit the last big NIL payday before revenue sharing kicks in.
Not surprised you want to blame our coach as that is on message for a LF'er, but it is happening across college basketball so as usual, your narrative does not match the facts. Sure, there are a few top shelf schools with great history and large NIL budget who can keep much of their roster but those are rare.
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Ring of Honor [22221]
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Then basically everyone in the nation is failing
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Apr 4, 2025, 11:24 AM
[ in reply to Re: So what's your answer? ] |
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Over 2000 transfers from 342 D1 schools. Over 5 per school on average.
It's the system, not any coach or even player. So long as players can transfer anytime, anywhere, and money is available, what exactly do you expect? The Big East POY is leaving Rick Pitino and St. John's.
The good ol' days are gone barring some changes that are likely to lose in court anyway or college sports ge
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Ring of Honor [22221]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Getting an anti-trust exemption, which isn't happening
Apr 4, 2025, 11:25 AM
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anytime soon
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Game Changer [1905]
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Re: So what's your answer?
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Apr 4, 2025, 11:46 AM
[ in reply to So what's your answer? ] |
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For me it’s not so much a question of blame - if I was a player, I’d certainly cash the checks. And the coaches are just trying to do what they have to do to succeed in the current environment.
But I do think there’s a certain tangible difference that is easier for the errrr… more life-experienced to feel. I think you can largely pick this apart to a degree as nostalgia and sentiment, but still there’s a palpable difference knowing that most players are not really invested in your university.
I don’t really think there is any going back at this point. I’m just trying to articulate my take on the OP’s point that it’s just not the same. I agree, and for me personally, it makes me feel less invested in the program. I can live with that - I have plenty of other things to do.
I will add that I think Clemson football fans feel this far less, due to the obvious disparity in reliance on the portal. But I understand Brad’s need to do so, given the recruiting disadvantages of not being Duke.
I know - TL;DR
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Fan [34]
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Re: Is anyone else saddened by the mens BB team not really being Clemson men?
Apr 4, 2025, 11:06 AM
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EC said that Clemson gave him his degree when he got to the NBA.
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CU Medallion [20744]
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It's not quite the same with the big roster turnover, but in fairness our 'same'
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Apr 4, 2025, 11:14 AM
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over the years has been one of also-rans and missing out. Definitely takes some of the enthusiasm out of traditional recruiting as we simply don't keep many of them for long, moreso now with instant eligibility. Looking back, does a Gabe DaVoe sit the bench for three seasons before taking off his senior year and leading us to a Sweet 16? He pretty much originated Clemson Grit with his spectacular play the second half of that season and brought an infectious energy and leadership.
If roster management today provides potential championship material, and it's within the rules and means, and our leadership is better at this game than others - I'm for it.
Go Tigers!
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Tiger Spirit [9727]
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Re: Is anyone else saddened by the mens BB team not really being Clemson men?
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Apr 4, 2025, 11:21 AM
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So we're going to have to change the slogan to: Most Clemson men need no introduction
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All-Pro [760]
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Re: Is anyone else saddened by the mens BB team not really being Clemson men?
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Apr 4, 2025, 11:32 AM
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I think it is sad in some ways, but Nick Davidson and Carter Welling would not have had the opportunity to come to Clemson if it weren’t for them proving themselves at their previous schools. I consider people like Viktor Lakhin, Jaeden Zachary, and Joseph Girard all to be Clemson men because they came here and embraced the culture.
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Paw Warrior [4829]
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Re: Is anyone else saddened by the mens BB team not really being Clemson men?
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Apr 4, 2025, 12:14 PM
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As I don’t know them personally, you might be right. But, did they really embrace Clemson and the culture? Or did they simply play here a year? When they speak to family, friends - where do they tell people they went to school and have loyalty to?
I’m not here to say anything other than, it is sad to me that not only do the players not gt the experience - but the fans don’t get to see development and Clemson men. The portal has taken me from a fanatic to a Clemson grad who follows and pulls for our team. Dabo gets push back for not using the portal, but has retained his model and for that, I am grateful. Compare that to the Michigan state , Florida state and Colorado football experiments.
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Paw Warrior [5071]
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Yes.
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Apr 4, 2025, 11:48 AM
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But I think we all knew it would be CBB, and not Dabo, who would have to build the first Frankenstein.
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Game Changer [1905]
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Interesting Analogy
Apr 4, 2025, 12:19 PM
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Let’s hope he doesn’t get the brain labeled “Abbie Normal”. 😀
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All-TigerNet [6038]
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Re: Is anyone else saddened by the mens BB team not really being Clemson men?
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Apr 4, 2025, 12:15 PM
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I suppose Brad could always go to the portal and get Clemson players who are there. Would that make it seem more like a Clemson team?
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Tiger Titan [50404]
TigerPulse: 76%
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I suppose I view Clemson as stronger and more powerful than you do.
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Apr 4, 2025, 12:29 PM
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Many people were instantly mesmerized by Clemson University the first time they were exposed to it, whether it was at a sporting event, a campus tour, or the first time they sat in a class as a Clemson student. "There is something in these hills" still rings true today, and student-athletes who arrive at Clemson via the transfer portal are not immune to it.
I choose to believe that Clemson can impact these young people in in a powerful way. Look at Joe Girard, who played just one year for Clemson basketball after being at Syracuse for several years previously. He said that he became a "Clemson man" will always be one. Why don't you think the same can and will happen for others? And why can't you see that our coaching staff is careful about the players they recruit and bring into the program, with the goal of them being players who will represent our school well now and in the future?
Viewing these guys as one year rentals who won't fall in love with Clemson or be "Clemson men" is short-sighted. After all, they chose to come here, so there had to be something that persuaded them. I believe it was more than just dollars or an opportunity to play.
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Paw Warrior [5071]
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Great point.
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Apr 4, 2025, 1:37 PM
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None of us should underestimate it.
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Paw Warrior [4829]
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I suppose you dont get Clemson Heritage vs One year rental.
Apr 4, 2025, 4:20 PM
[ in reply to I suppose I view Clemson as stronger and more powerful than you do. ] |
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Simply showing up for a cup of coffee and liking the coffee shop is not the same as loving the coffee shop your entire life and wanting to go there.
Don’t confuse the two. A Clemson Man is there because and for Clemson. The fact you don’t understand that - says so much about you and your love of Clemson.
Your silly responses don’t work with me. Try them elsewhere.
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Tiger Titan [50404]
TigerPulse: 76%
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Who are you to decide if a basketball player is here for Clemson or not?
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Apr 4, 2025, 7:15 PM
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How do you define a Clemson man, and why don’t you think someone here for 1 year can’t be one?
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Paw Warrior [4829]
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you simply writing that, tells me you dont know what a Clemson Man is.
Apr 5, 2025, 7:39 AM
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You are simply throwing anything on the wall to try and hide the issue.
Who am I? I am a Clemson Man. As I posted, I grew up a Clemson fan, wanted to go to Clemson, got recruited by Clemson, went to Clemson, loved Clemson, and 40 years after graduation, still do.
So, you ask how is that different than someone who grew up in Utah, went to UC Irvine, then transferred to Utah Valley, and now comes to his 3rd school. And you have the nerve to act like he is a Clemson Man? Who do you think actually believes that?
He will no doubt play hard, do his best, but wow, for you to compare him to someone who wanted Clemson, got recruited by Clemson, and then spent their entire career at Clemson - like a PJ Hall is complete madness.
Your pot shots at Dabo and football compared to your take here seem pale in comparison to not knowing what a Clemson man (or woman ) is.
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110%er [3657]
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Paw Warrior [4829]
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Re: I suppose you dont get Clemson Heritage vs One year rental.
Apr 5, 2025, 8:14 AM
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I am glad you understand. Even though I know you did not mean it.
Maybe it is an age thing, or an era thing it resonated with me when the number of portal players hit a big number. I guess it was bound to happen at some point. I’m still of the opinion that a guy who loves Clemson is different than a guy who grew up in Utah, goes to cal Irvine, then transfers to Utah valley and now to Clemson. It does not make him a bad person or player. For me, it’s different.
Be safe and well. We can disagree and be friendly and both want our team to win.
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All-TigerNet [5842]
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But......askViktor Lahkin or Joe Girard if they are..
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Apr 4, 2025, 12:32 PM
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Clemson men and see what they tell you. So yes, i feel like those guys are clemson men. and i think they feel the same way.
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Head Coach [975]
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Re: Is anyone else saddened by the mens BB team not really being Clemson men?
Apr 4, 2025, 2:23 PM
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Maybe you could reminisce more succinctly.
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Paw Warrior [4829]
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Re: Is anyone else saddened by the mens BB team not really being Clemson men?
Apr 4, 2025, 6:45 PM
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Maybe you should understand nobody forced you to read it.
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Dynasty Maker [3392]
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God almighty
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Apr 4, 2025, 4:32 PM
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What a stupid take. Put down the Jim Beam bottle. In case you have not noticed, it is the way of the world now.
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Paw Warrior [4829]
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Some of us understand what being a Clemson man is, you clearly dont.
Apr 4, 2025, 6:47 PM
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It’s ok. Not everyone understands. You be you.
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MVP [536]
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Re: Is anyone else saddened by the mens BB team not really being Clemson men?
Apr 4, 2025, 5:24 PM
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Welcome to the new age of college athletics. Better get used to it.
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Paw Warrior [4829]
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Re: Is anyone else saddened by the mens BB team not really being Clemson men?
Apr 4, 2025, 6:47 PM
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I hear ya. Makes me appreciate Dabo even more.
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Clemson Icon [24392]
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They are lucky they dont know Larry Shyatt.
Apr 4, 2025, 5:31 PM
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I wish I didn’t know him. Definitely not a legend at the school.
~JKB
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Varsity [103]
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Re: Is anyone else saddened by the mens BB team not really being Clemson men?
Apr 4, 2025, 5:40 PM
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Got to have more than a few players to field a team. Could play 4 on 5 like in the UNC game years ago when almost everyone fouled out. Everyone criticized Dabo for not using the portal should be happy with basketball.
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Rival Killer [2887]
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Re: Is anyone else saddened by the mens BB team not really being Clemson men?
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Apr 4, 2025, 5:43 PM
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Unfortunately, we’ll need to reset our expectations. With only 7% of the offense coming back, I just hope we don’t have an “unmitigated disaster” of a season. If we can win 65% of our games, I’ll consider it a winning season. 🙂
Wiggins, Jones, the big Duke guy, Jake, and Robert’s might have been the difference, oh well. LOL.
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Rival Killer [2887]
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Re: Is anyone else saddened by the mens BB team not really being Clemson men?
Apr 4, 2025, 6:15 PM
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Sorry dude, but I consider Lakhin, JG3 & all the others to be all Clemson men. Even the ones who transferred or are transferring. I hope they all do well.
Go Tigers!
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Paw Warrior [4829]
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Re: Is anyone else saddened by the mens BB team not really being Clemson men?
Apr 4, 2025, 6:51 PM
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That’s ok, we acan both have different opinions. Just because you played a year at Clemson, is not the same as loving Clemson, being recruited by Clemson, signing with the team you want to play for and being there for 4 years. I’m beginning to think it is just a loyalty and age thing. All good.
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Dynasty Maker [3392]
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What was the record when the basketball team was just Clemson men?
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Apr 4, 2025, 6:17 PM
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I rest my case.
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Paw Warrior [4829]
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Re: What was the record when the basketball team was just Clemson men?
Apr 4, 2025, 6:58 PM
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Before you write silly stuff - do you even read what people write?
The post is about being sad that the majority of the team is not true Clemson men. Nothing to do with wins,or defending the coach. Yet, you start typing garbage. Try reading again. Or maybe you just don’t understand what loving a school, wanting to go to that school, being recruited to that school, committing to that school and being developed by that school vs going to a school and then stopping over for a season to a school that was not on your radar. It has nothing to do with quality of the player etc. it has to do with loyalty, heritage, etc. I had no issue filling gaps, but when the majority of team are not Clemson men, then it feels different. The past couple of years have been fine. Just not this one.
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Rival Killer [2887]
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Re: What was the record when the basketball team was just Clemson men?
Apr 4, 2025, 7:02 PM
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Have you ever poasted a positive post about Tiger Basketball?
Feel free to list your expected targets for next year. Some folks learn about expectations today. TIA
So I doubt you will. Dare you.
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Paw Warrior [4829]
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Re: What was the record when the basketball team was just Clemson men?
Apr 5, 2025, 7:42 AM
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Sure I have. And you are simply being a Richard. Own it.
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Ultimate Tiger [33590]
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Re: Is anyone else saddened by the mens BB team not really being Clemson men?
Apr 4, 2025, 7:56 PM
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Sort of like the French Foreign Legion. Have any been to Paris to see the Eiffel Tower?
Wink wink.
😉
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CU Medallion [20744]
TigerPulse: 100%
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FWIW - Victor Lahkin was on Sirius College radio earlier today from
Apr 4, 2025, 8:25 PM
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his senior game in San Antonio. They interviewed him with a teammate. Cool guy. He's All In on Duke winning one for the ACC and him having helped beat them earlier for the Tigers. Glad he got to spend a year here like he did. Some great moments.
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Rival Killer [2887]
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Re: FWIW - Victor Lahkin was on Sirius College radio earlier today from
Apr 4, 2025, 8:26 PM
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Amen to that! Vic was a great gran this year!
Go Tigers!
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Rival Killer [2781]
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respectfully disagree with this premise
Apr 4, 2025, 10:50 PM
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I don't understand this staunchly held notion by many of you that there's this giant intrinsic difference between someone who attends 1 college for 4 years (ie: the "conventional" route) and someone who transfers universities. I grew up in Clemson, have lived here all my life, and still do to this day. I love it here. The town, the geography, the land, the culture, the people, the sports, academics, music, and everything else. We all believe that there's just something "different" about Clemson from every other university. Something that may be a combination of all of those factors, but that's hard to put into words. "There's something in these hills."
But, to be brutally honest here, I do think we can get too carried away with this at times. For many of us who live in the Clemson area or still have a strong interest/connections here, that "special" feeling attached to Clemson is something many of us experience. But not everyone has that experience. Yes, there are people who come to college here, fall in love with the area, and maintain a deep connection for rest of their lives.
But there are also plenty of folks who just show up, put in their 4 years for a degree, and then get out and move on with their lives. There are even some people who leave early because they have a bad experience or don't fit well. That happens everywhere, no matter how great a place is. So I ask you, is someone from Maryland who comes to Clemson for 4 years, graduates, and then leaves, more of a "Clemson man" than someone who starts out at community college or another university and then transfers in after a year or two? How many years exactly are required to be a true "Clemson man"? Level of devotion to the school and the area are going to vary wildly from individual to individual, regardless of whether they're a transfer or not.
I hate to break it to you, but there are plenty of people who come here for 4 years just to party, get laid, get a degree, and get out, never to return again. They don't really care about Clemson at all. Trust me, I've met plenty of 'em. Same goes for athletes. Think about all the football and baseball players who forgo their senior year to leave for the draft. Of course, there are also plenty of 4 year Clemson students, athletes included, who love the school and stay connected for life. But that same duality exists among transfers. Are there some who don't care and are just chasing the bag? Of course. But there are also plenty who are really bought in.
Think about Brevin Galloway, who went to Clemson basketball camp as a kid, dreamed of playing here, but wasn't good enough. He slowly worked his way up, starting out at College of Charleston, then moving to Boston College, and finally transferring to Clemson. Think about Joe Girard, who was seen attending Clemson baseball games well after the basketball season had ended, spoke well of Clemson after the season was over, and actively encouraged other players to come here. He was still frequently commenting on the team's social media this season. Think about Viktor Lakhin, who was moved to tears when he was recognized on senior day at Littlejohn, who brought his fiancé and got married here during the hurricane, and who spoke about how grateful he was to be trusted and given a chance after that hadn't happened at Cincy.
Think about some of the baseball guys we've had recently like Dom Listi, who plays the game with as much passion, intensity, and selflessness as anyone I've ever seen. Think about the emotion shown from guys like Hinderleider and Ciufo last season, and some of the iconic moments they produced against SCar. I could name so many other examples.
I really wish some of y'all could see beyond the unfortunate stereotypes of all transfer players being these money hungry, selfish, soulless people. I'll admit, as someone who's transferred myself, that I may be biased. But in a way, some of the transfers are my favorite players of all. Because I relate to them. Some of us don't have things go well for us in high school, whether it's our own fault or not. We don't all have perfect roads that lead us neatly into the perfect 4-year college destination of our choice, as much as many fans want to romanticize that. But when someone is able to defy the odds, having to start out at a tiny college no one's ever even heard of (like Jaeden Zackery) just to get a roster spot, and through hard work and determination is then able to slowly work their way up to being able to start for a school like Clemson, that's inspiring to me. And I think those are some of the best Clemson stories of all.
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Paw Warrior [4829]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: respectfully disagree with this premise
Apr 5, 2025, 8:02 AM
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Look, I appreciate your response. If you go back to what I wrote, I stated I was ok with the filling of gaps, but it saddened me to see the vast majority of the team being people who came to Clemson for reasons other than their love of the school. Simple as that.
Sure, people transfer and do all the things you stated. But when I compare a guy that grew up in Utah, went to unc Irvine, then Utah valley, and now comes to Clemson - to a guy like pj hall - I see a difference. It does not make the guy a bad person or a bad player - it just makes it different. Especially when for the first time our team is bringing on 6. Yes, times have changed, but bringing on that many at once is different. It changes the game for me. It changes it from being a Clemson team to a team of hired players from other schools wearing our jerseys.
I did not mean for my post to blow up. I just asked if others were saddened for the same reason. It resonated with many, some of the Brownell buddies took exception and some like yourself had interesting conversation. It’s all good. We all have different takes on things like this.
Be safe and well.
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All-Pro [738]
TigerPulse: 98%
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Re: Is anyone else saddened by the mens BB team not really being Clemson men?
Apr 4, 2025, 10:54 PM
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I'm 57 years old. I can remember most of Clemsons starting five dating back many years. That will not be the case going forward.
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Paw Warrior [4829]
TigerPulse: 100%
37
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Re: Is anyone else saddened by the mens BB team not really being Clemson men?
Apr 5, 2025, 8:07 AM
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Agree. I’m 66. I am beginning to think this is more of an “era and age “ thing. It simply hit me when I realized the starting lineup (except 1) and primary reserves will be players like the guy who grew up in Utah, went to cal Irvine, then to Utah valley, and now to Clemson. His reason for wearing the jersey is different. It does not make him a bad person or player, just not the same as a Clemson lover.
Be safe and well.
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Athletic Dir [1142]
TigerPulse: 100%
26
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Re: Is anyone else saddened by the mens BB team not really being Clemson men?
1
Apr 5, 2025, 8:45 AM
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I’m still not a Brad thing. It’s the downfall of college athletics across the board. It makes me sick.
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National Champion [7464]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Is anyone else saddened by the mens BB team not really being Clemson men?
Apr 5, 2025, 9:24 AM
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Remember the movie "Magnificent Seven?"
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