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Associate AD [1091]
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Question for those who say the game has passed Dabo by and want change
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Nov 10, 2024, 7:35 AM
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I’m genuinely curious, what are you expecting from our program?
Is it NC or bust and anything else is failure, is it consistently winning 10 games each year, is it just beating the coots?
I’m happy to share my opinion if you want, but I’m more so curious what some of you naysayers are expecting year over year
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Rock Defender [55]
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Re: Question for those who say the game has passed Dabo by and want change
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Nov 10, 2024, 7:42 AM
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We were told that “Best is Standard”. We are paying a coach $11M per year to be relevant nationally and competed for National Championships. If you are content with being a “decent” ACC team and being ranked in the low 20”s and playing early December bowl games then stop wasting money on these coaches and stop telling us that Best is Standard.
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Commissioner [1259]
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Re: Question for those who say the game has passed Dabo by and want change
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Nov 10, 2024, 8:06 AM
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Maybe you should actually research what he actually means by that saying best is the standard
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Tiger Titan [46596]
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The last four years havent been Dabos best in terms of effort.
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Nov 10, 2024, 10:30 AM
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I know a lot of you like to claim that people don’t understand what “best is the standard” means, but regardless of how you define it, we haven’t been meeting that standard lately.
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Associate AD [1091]
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Re: The last four years havent been Dabos best in terms of effort.
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Nov 10, 2024, 10:57 AM
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How do you measure effort?
I mean I would bet in some peoples eyes he’s given more effort and is a better coach then he was 10 years ago… point in case is the fact that he had a DJU led team one win, heck really one half, away from the 4 team playoff
Not saying you’re wrong, but I don’t think you’re right either
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Tiger Titan [46596]
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Well, we arent privy to watching our coaches 24/7 and comparing their effort to
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Nov 10, 2024, 11:20 AM
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However, I am sure that our coaches work very hard and are doing their best to win.
With that said, it is hard to imagine that Dabo is doing his best in terms of effort when:
-His record the last four years isn’t consistent with his salary.
-Player performance isn’t consistent with our recruiting rankings.
-We aren’t using all available avenues to recruit the best players
-Dabo doesn’t seem willing to acknowledge his own faults or mistakes, based on his comments as well as his actions.
Again, I don’t think it’s a conscious lack of effort, but I do think it’s clear that we are not reaching our potential as a program this decade.
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Associate AD [1091]
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Re: Well, we arent privy to watching our coaches 24/7 and comparing their effort to
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Nov 10, 2024, 1:02 PM
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So you can’t measure effort, but at the same time you can and you know Dabo is falling short…
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Tiger Titan [46596]
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Perhaps I have a higher opinion of Dabo than you do.
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Nov 11, 2024, 10:42 PM
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I see him as a transformative leader and a championship level coach.
For a long time, Dabo was innovative. He got the most out of his players and teams. We punched above our weight class for years. We had incredible success.
Something changed. Now, we routinely underachieve. We are predictable. We don’t even fully utilize NIL and the portal. Our performance on the field the last few years has been disappointing.
If you want to believe these last few years represent Dabo’s best effort, go ahead. But unless you’re the ultimate apologist, you can’t possibly believe that Dabo has been putting in the longest hours and most grit of his coaching career recently. If you do, then surely you must also believe that the game has passed him by or he has forgotten a lot about football.
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Commissioner [1259]
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Re: Perhaps I have a higher opinion of Dabo than you do.
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Nov 12, 2024, 7:55 AM
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No, you just make back handed compliments.
You just said yourself that, "We punched above our weight class for years." There is your answer. You can't perpetually punch above your weight class.
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Clemson Icon [27010]
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Dynasty Maker [3110]
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Dynasty Maker [3243]
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Game Day Hero [4251]
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Re: Question for those who say the game has passed Dabo by and want change
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Nov 10, 2024, 11:17 AM
[ in reply to Re: Question for those who say the game has passed Dabo by and want change ] |
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Only a fool would want Dabo fired right now.
We have the same record as Bama and Georgia with the season almost over.
People have to understand with all the money involved anyone can be beating anywhere any time!
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Tiger Titan [46596]
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I dont think anyone here wants him fired.
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Nov 10, 2024, 11:33 AM
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People want to see him do better and earn his salary.
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Clemson Icon [27010]
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Re: I dont think anyone here wants him fired.
Nov 12, 2024, 11:11 AM
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You missed a lot during your Jamaican vacation. Quite a few ready for him to go. Most didn’t say they wanted him to be fired so they could deny that specific statement, but there were plenty suggesting he should retire or move on.
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Scout Team [84]
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Freshman [3]
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Re: Question for those who say the game has passed Dabo by and want change
Nov 15, 2024, 11:37 AM
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Agree 100%! We've played cupcakes and got beat by an inferior team. And who's looking forward to playing the chick's this year?
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Re: Question for those who say the game has passed Dabo by and want change
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Nov 10, 2024, 9:25 PM
[ in reply to Re: Question for those who say the game has passed Dabo by and want change ] |
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Clemson can not and will not be a top 10 program on a consistent basis due to NIL and having to pay portal players. Louisville example: Over 20 transfers many who were paid came in recently. Their QB had played for 3 different programs-basically a paid mercenary football player. Dabo would retire before he did what many are doing including our revival SC. Players that had much rather play for Dabo and Clemson are not coming because they are going for the upfront money. We do not have the Dudes on this team as in the past. We are stuck in above average but not elite status unless something changes.
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All-Pro [721]
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Re: Question for those who say the game has passed Dabo by and want change
Nov 12, 2024, 8:30 AM
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Oh really how would you know we have not tried? Has the head coach asked for NIL money? Gotten into bidding wars? Went all out to get a key component?
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Tiger Spirit [9399]
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Re: Question for those who say the game has passed Dabo by and want change
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Nov 10, 2024, 7:50 AM
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For me it’s Best is the Standard. That doesn’t mean playing for a national championship every year. That doesn’t mean even playing in the ACC Championship game every year. It means the adults have the kids ready to play every game. It means you don’t ignore special teams and get 5 field goal attempts blocked. It means you know how to run a hurry up offense when you get down and time is of the essence. It means you teach the kids the rules of the game so they take advantage of stopping the clock without running out of bounds 6 yards behind the line of scrimmage. It means you take advantage of every tool available to you in recruiting. For me it’s not so much about the outcome, because the other team is trying to win too, but having the adults utilizing everything provided to them and having the kids prepared 100% of the time.
Dabo has been the best thing to happen to Clemson football since Danny Ford. But we have slipped a tiny bit in a game that is unforgiving and exposed you when you do slip. He needs to admit that to himself and get the mojo back.
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Tiger Titan [46596]
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We havent just slipped a tiny bit. Weve slipped a lot.***
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Nov 10, 2024, 10:31 AM
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Orange Elite [5297]
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Re: Question for those who say the game has passed Dabo by and want change
Nov 10, 2024, 9:29 PM
[ in reply to Re: Question for those who say the game has passed Dabo by and want change ] |
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I agree. Dabo does not seem as hungry as he was in earlier times. I guess you can fill up on $11 million quickly. He seems he has lost some of the earlier enthusiasm. This is probably due to the current Nil/portal buying wins and teams environment we find ourselves in.
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Asst Coach [837]
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Tiger Spirit [9960]
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Re: Question for those who say the game has passed Dabo by and want change
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Nov 10, 2024, 8:02 AM
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You are asking about the wrong thing. The expectation should be in the inputs or process, not the outcome. We expect Dabo to use every tool available to build a championship team but he has decided to buck the tide. It seems disingenuous to pay an OC $2M and an OL coach $1M per year to improve our team but will not pay market rate for a DE or QB. It’s fine to not like the current system but opting out at the expense of our program is unacceptable.
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Dynasty Maker [3243]
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Re: Question for those who say the game has passed Dabo by and want change
Nov 10, 2024, 8:51 AM
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Pay for a college player!!!
The Game has left a lot of people behind !!
Ask FSU how that paying for players works!!
Yeah give this system of paying players and portal just a few more years and it will implode!!!
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Tiger Spirit [9960]
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Re: Question for those who say the game has passed Dabo by and want change
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Nov 10, 2024, 10:21 AM
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Pay for a college player!!!
The Game has left a lot of people behind !!
Ask FSU how that paying for players works!!
Yeah give this system of paying players and portal just a few more years and it will implode!!!
As a counter to your FSU example, every team in the top 10 has used the portal and pays upfront NIL to HS recruits. Every single one. There is no reason to believe we will remain a top 25 team under Dabo’s rules as we are steadily declining in terms of talent. After next year, we lose Cade, Woods and Parker so the crap will hit the fan yet some on hear will be surprised as they did not see it coming
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Tiger Titan [46596]
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No, they will just portray Dabo as a martyr and a victim.
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Nov 10, 2024, 10:32 AM
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Poor Dabo, a moral and ethical coach playing a corrupt game where everyone else cheats. Cue the melancholy music and tears of what could have been if these unfortunate and unavoidable circumstances could have been prevented…
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Orange Elite [5297]
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Re: No, they will just portray Dabo as a martyr and a victim.
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Nov 10, 2024, 9:33 PM
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Judge you continue to attack Dabo personally which I don’t appreciate. You are continuing your cootish attitude. Your team is having a banner year just be glad for that and leave off the criticism of a man 100 times greater than you.
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Tiger Titan [46596]
TigerPulse: 78%
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How did I attack him personally?***
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Nov 11, 2024, 10:44 PM
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Tiger Spirit [9960]
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Re: Question for those who say the game has passed Dabo by and want change
Nov 10, 2024, 10:21 AM
[ in reply to Re: Question for those who say the game has passed Dabo by and want change ] |
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Pay for a college player!!!
The Game has left a lot of people behind !!
Ask FSU how that paying for players works!!
Yeah give this system of paying players and portal just a few more years and it will implode!!!
As a counter to your FSU example, every team in the top 10 has used the portal and pays upfront NIL to HS recruits. Every single one. There is no reason to believe we will remain a top 25 team under Dabo’s rules as we are steadily declining in terms of talent. After next year, we lose Cade, Woods and Parker so the crap will hit the fan yet some on hear will be surprised as they did not see it coming
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Dynasty Maker [3110]
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Associate AD [1091]
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Re: Question for those who say the game has passed Dabo by and want change
Nov 10, 2024, 8:56 AM
[ in reply to Re: Question for those who say the game has passed Dabo by and want change ] |
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No, I was very intentional in that I’m curious the outcomes people want
I mean what if it ends up that we go on a run and win the Natty every year for the next decade, but never use the portal… Would that be an outcome that people want? Inversely, what if we use the portal and start consistently going 6-6, I doubt that people would be ok with that
Outcome is the far more important question here
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Tiger Titan [46596]
TigerPulse: 78%
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I dont think most of us care how we get there, as long as we are doing our best
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Nov 10, 2024, 10:38 AM
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and giving our program every possible advantage to be successful.
Dabo digging his heels in and being lukewarm about NIL and generally against the transfer portal are clearly bad stances to take, based on the last few years. We have slipped as a program, and we have been passed by programs that embraced these changes to college football.
I admire Dabo’s desire to maintain the purity of college football, but those days ended when big TV contracts and huge coaching salaries entered the fray. It’s hypocritical to not want players to be compensated or have the freedom to transfer without restriction while universities rake in hundreds of millions of dollars and top coaches can name their own price.
Players aren’t dumb, they aren’t falling for the aw shucks routine when plenty of other good coaches are willing to give them a better benefits package.
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Paw Master [16273]
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Re: Question for those who say the game has passed Dabo by and want change
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Nov 11, 2024, 10:34 PM
[ in reply to Re: Question for those who say the game has passed Dabo by and want change ] |
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I want Dabo to be our head coach for a long time.
In the 20,21,22,& 23 seasons only 3 teams won more games than Clemson. In those same years Clemson played in 1 CFP, won 2 league championships, & won two bowl games. These last 4 years were a bit down for Dabo and yet would be career highlights for almost every other coach in America.
I buy 4 season tickets, have given money to IPTAY for > 45 years,& I attend games home and away. I fully support Dabo. Whenever Dabo leaves Clemson our program is most likely going to decline like most others who lose a Hall of Fame coach who won multiple National Championships.
Go Tigers!!
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Asst Coach [837]
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Dynasty Maker [3243]
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Re: Question for those who say the game has passed Dabo by and want change
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Nov 10, 2024, 8:03 AM
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Well the two answer’s so far just demonstrate the arrogance and the ignorance of the the responders!
The game has not past Dabo by! Just look at His record! He is literally one of the best coaches with the best records in all of College Football History.
To gripe and whine and complain about one year or two years of His program is beyond ignorant it is stupidity!
Best is the Standard means you give it all you got and do the best you can, it never has meant win every game by 100 points!
These people complaining about how much The Coaches make more than likely do not pay one dime of His Salary or give one penny to Clemson! If they do they should stop giving and keep their money because they can’t be pleased!
The new Rules makes it much more difficult to recruit ! To coach and to maintain a roster! It was people and attitudes like these people griping that got us where we are in CF.. Go Tigers!!!! Oh yeah didn’t Clemson win yesterday?
Georgie lost! LSU lost and Miami lost! I wonder if these same people led by Paul Finebaum will declare the game has passed them by?????
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1st Rounder [611]
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Re: Question for those who say the game has passed Dabo by and want change
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Nov 10, 2024, 8:12 AM
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Well the two answer’s so far just demonstrate the arrogance and the ignorance of the the responders!
The game has not past Dabo by! Just look at His record! He is literally one of the best coaches with the best records in all of College Football History.
To gripe and whine and complain about one year or two years of His program is beyond ignorant it is stupidity!
Best is the Standard means you give it all you got and do the best you can, it never has meant win every game by 100 points!
These people complaining about how much The Coaches make more than likely do not pay one dime of His Salary or give one penny to Clemson! If they do they should stop giving and keep their money because they can’t be pleased!
The new Rules makes it much more difficult to recruit ! To coach and to maintain a roster! It was people and attitudes like these people griping that got us where we are in CF.. Go Tigers!!!! Oh yeah didn’t Clemson win yesterday?
Georgie lost! LSU lost and Miami lost! I wonder if these same people led by Paul Finebaum will declare the game has passed them by?????
Well said and agree 110%! Go Tigers!!
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Clemson Conqueror [11165]
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the new rules ALSO create another resource/stream to GET TALENT outside.......
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Nov 10, 2024, 8:49 AM
[ in reply to Re: Question for those who say the game has passed Dabo by and want change ] |
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of just high school recruits................Dabo refuses to use them. Don't give me the "makes it more difficult" when the historically less talented/less fortunate programs in the ACC have embraced the new rules and found ways to either close the gap on the scoreboard OR beat us over the last several years.
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Campus Hero [13148]
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Re: Question for those who say the game has passed Dabo by and want change
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Nov 10, 2024, 8:05 AM
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We play in the weakest conference among the Power 4. Expectation should be to make the ACCCG. Everything else will take care of itself. If we win it then deserve to be in the Playoff.
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Associate AD [1091]
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Re: Question for those who say the game has passed Dabo by and want change
Nov 10, 2024, 11:06 AM
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Hmm, two things -
- I’d argue the ACC is better league then the big 12, not sure how you arrived at the conclusion that were the weakest conference, but if you have stats to support it I’m up for the debate
- Thank You, this is the first outcome (i.e. win the conference) I’ve seen yet
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Clemson Conqueror [11165]
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here's how I look at it........
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Nov 10, 2024, 8:19 AM
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1. The game hasn't passed Dabo by........he just refuses to adapt to the "new way" so he can push his imaginary moral high ground agenda.
2. He's a top 2-3 paid coach in the country. National Championship and National championship contention is EXPECTED.......a down year or two from "elite" is ok. A zero for five streak on being ELITE is NOT at his salary.............that's the case in the real world too.
3. As long as he's in the ACC which is an absolute pathetic excuse of a football conference. He better be going 4 for 5 or 5 for 5 on ACCCG wins. He has TWO programs in the conference that pose a legitimate threat EVERY year.........FSU/MIAMI. Everyone else is a joke.
He's being paid $12million per year and you're asking if our expectations are too high after we've UNDERPERFORMED for the last FIVE YEARS as he continues to ignore the REAL problems plaguing the team/program...............we're on YEAR FIVE on not being ELITE...........the COVID year was prime example of our conference insulating us until we played a real team. If he wants to continue his method in this era of college football then he needs to take a pay cut and tell the fans that BEST IS THE STANDARD only applies to off field character traits and not on field results.
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Orange Blooded [2130]
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Re: here's how I look at it........
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Nov 10, 2024, 8:29 AM
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Pay is the main factor imo. You can't make a top 5 or 3 salary and not compete for national championships.
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1st Rounder [681]
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Re: Question for those who say the game has passed Dabo by and want change
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Nov 10, 2024, 8:31 AM
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All I ask for I’d improvement and effort and, I’m not sure the last two games showed it. This wouldn’t be on the players. Also, Dabo appeared more frazzled and less confident.
Better special teams would be good.
And finally, cohesiveness from the D backs. They’re not always on the same page.
And finally, I don’t want our success to be temporary. I was there through the 70’s, attended the orange bowl NC game and it took a long time for us to return.
I’m not happy with arrogance and lack of humility. We need to get tougher and worry about football instead of all the extracurriculars.
I love the Tigers.
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All-TigerNet [6082]
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Top 10 and in the 12 team playoff
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Nov 10, 2024, 8:40 AM
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Dabo is the 2nd highest paid coach behind Kirby. Clemson should consistently be ranked top 10 and never experience an embarrassing loss at home. If Dabo were coaching at UGA or Bama, his seat would be so hot right now. Clemson boosters are paying to have a Bama and UGA level team. Why should we be ok with what has been on the field the past several years?
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All-TigerNet [6082]
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For the remainder of this season
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Nov 10, 2024, 9:04 AM
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Clemson needs to be successful in kicking field goals and converting third and short. No excuse for not be able to be successful in both of these football plays.
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Gridiron Giant [15748]
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To make the playoffs and be at least competitive in those.***
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Nov 10, 2024, 8:43 AM
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Game Changer [1805]
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Re: Question for those who say the game has passed Dabo by and want change
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Nov 10, 2024, 8:53 AM
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That tough to answer … I think most are aware that down years happen so I don’t think NC or bust is realistic at all. I do think with the 12 team format Clemson should be in that every year and there’s no excuse playing in the ACC. I can’t speak for everybody but I believe where we were a few years ago after multiple titles we should expect to be in the convo… losses are going to happen but even with a very mediocre offense under Kelly Bryant we still made the playoffs and competed. This program fell even from that quickly even when most Clemson fans knew that team wasn’t beating bama. Let’s face it the ACC is trash and i think the biggest argument I have is in the past we would all be very loud about Clemson playing an SEC schedule and defended those teams when ppl talked trash mostly bc we proved it … there’s no way anyone can argue that if this team played an sec schedule we would struggle to make a bowl game…
There are many opinions on why that happened and I don’t think the game has passed Dabo by… I think he let the success get to his decision making and made some bad hires when we could have gone out and hired anyone we wanted and kept it rolling but I think he was too interested in building this “Dabo coaching tree”.. and it had set us back.. couple that with the DJ miss and some very bad wr recruiting efforts and this is where we are. I wanted to give goodwin a solid chance and they improved this week but this isn’t the same defense from a few years ago… we are FAR from competing with the elites now sadly… so short answer for me in a 12 team playoff my expectations are to be in that most every year and be competitive when we get in with an occasional run
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Top TigerNet [30583]
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Re: Question for those who say the game has passed Dabo by and want change
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Nov 10, 2024, 8:54 AM
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I suspect this will play out one of two ways:
Scenario 1: Dabo uses the portal--albeit sparingly, surprising many naysayers.
Scenario 2: Dabo eventually resigns, citing the "changing" landscape of CFB.
We will see.
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Clemson Conqueror [11165]
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or Scenario 3:........
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Nov 10, 2024, 9:05 AM
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repeat the same actions that he has the last 4-5 years ignoring problems, refusing to adapt, using double digit win seasons in a pathetic conference to prop up this mirage that Clemson's still an elite program.
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All-TigerNet [6082]
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Associate AD [1091]
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Re: More than portal
Nov 10, 2024, 11:23 AM
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Lemme get this right… your expectation is that we fire our coach
Bold strategy cotton, let’s see if it pays off
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Offensive Star [340]
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Re: Question for those who say the game has passed Dabo by and want change
Nov 10, 2024, 9:02 AM
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I totally trust that Dabo is doing it the right way. Culture and family over portal. Florida state is a prime example. Colorado too. Florida and jawja throw money around like nobody's business and how's that working out. Football is currently the wild west, but soon the dust will settle. We will have some sort of rules and regulations and "Dabos way" will come out on top. Jmo.
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Dynasty Maker [3110]
TigerPulse: 76%
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Colorado has the same record that we do.
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Nov 10, 2024, 10:48 AM
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Apparently that makes how they don't "the right way".
Same for the 3 other ACC teams that have records the same better than we do.
Ditto for that same group of other teams that are 7-2 or better. That includes 4 other Big 12 teams, 4 Big 10 Teams, 7 SEC teams, and Notre Dame.
Exactly one if those has a coach that makes as much or more than Dabo.
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Walk-On [76]
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Football hasn't passed him by, but elite football seems to have***
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Nov 10, 2024, 9:03 AM
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Athletic Dir [1161]
TigerPulse: 100%
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My take
Nov 10, 2024, 9:06 AM
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While it’s human nature to criticize leaders for HOW they do things, I doubt very seriously if many Tigernet posters know anything about running a major college football program. I see a lot of people speaking loudly,clearly, and often that using the portal is more important than winning games! For me, and in answer to your question, being in the top 10 every year is really all that matters. Sometimes number 10, sometimes number 1. How Dabo gets us there is what we’re paying him to figure out.
4,2,2,3,1,1,2,0,1,2,3,3,4,2.
That's the number of games we’ve lost, year by year, since 2011. That meets my expectations! Being 23rd this year does not, though.
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Associate AD [1091]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: My take
Nov 10, 2024, 11:13 AM
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Best take I’ve seen so far
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Heisman Winner [78870]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Good take. Also, I will add, we survived what I consider a near program killer
Nov 10, 2024, 11:49 AM
[ in reply to My take ] |
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in DJ Uiagalelei. He introduced a malaise to the program much like Jimma Carter did with the whole country while he was President. And to those who say he had success at Oregon State, they were 10-3, with a bowl win, the year before he got there. They were 8-5, with a bowl LOSS, the one year he WAS there. And, ask FSU if his presence provided any positive on the field results for THEM.
Our program has still not completely recovered from the comatose offense he induced when he was here. Now, if you want to blame Dabo for sticking with him, you can. I honestly cannot fathom why Dabo did stick with him as long as he did. The other guys must have just showed absolutely nothing in practice week after week. Either that, or Big Dave had pictures of Dabo in a compromising position with barnyard poultry. That's the only other thing that would provide an explanation.
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Tiger Titan [46596]
TigerPulse: 78%
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Blaming DJ for our comatose offense is overly simplistic.
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Nov 10, 2024, 11:56 AM
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Elliott and Streeter did little to try to overcome his limitations.
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Tiger Titan [46596]
TigerPulse: 78%
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I expect us to be one of the top 5 programs in college football.
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Nov 10, 2024, 9:09 AM
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That means we are ranked in the top 5 consistently and are legitimate national championship contenders.
This means recruiting the best and brightest - talented players who will also represent our school well on and off the field.
I expect these things for several reasons:
1. We have shown we can do this in the fairly recent past.
2. We have the administrative support to achieve this.
3. We have the fan support to achieve this.
4. We fund our program accordingly (Dabo is the second highest paid coach, our assistant salaries are among the highest, our facilities are outstanding, etc.).
There is no reason we shouldn’t expect to be one of the nation’s top football programs. This doesn’t mean we should expect a national championship every season, or be mad if we lose a game, but it does mean we are one of the best.
If this isn’t our goal, we should stop investing so much in the program.
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Game Changer [2082]
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Re: I expect us to be one of the top 5 programs in college football.
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Nov 10, 2024, 10:40 AM
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To be top 5, we will have to be able to pay players too…. Rules are changing and we have to keep evolving. WE have a strong fan base that can generate enough in my opinion, but then we have to have a great strategy to pay the RIGHT players, the ones we want to keep in the program, and the ones we want to join the program.
I don’t know enough about how it all works and its evolving, but pay to play is real, and we need to evaluate our program philosophy and strategy around this part of the game.
Have to trust that the head guy will get it done, and if not then the university will decide when it’s time to change. I fully support our team and coaches and I am hopeful they will evolve as the game evolves
Anyone remember the definition of insanity?
Go Tigers!!!!!
Message was edited by: Tr0utb0y®
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Associate AD [1091]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Tiger Titan [46596]
TigerPulse: 78%
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Consistently meaning on average.
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Nov 10, 2024, 11:38 AM
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For example, over a 5 year period we could finish 1, 2, 4, 6, and 12.
Or, we could be 3, 3, 4, 6, and 9.
All of those are an average finish in the top 5, allowing for some really good years as well as some rebuilding (but not horrible) years.
We all know that it’s impossible to be #1 every year, but we should be in the conversation for a national championship every preseason. You know, like we were the second half of the 2010s.
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Heisman Winner [78870]
TigerPulse: 100%
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So, what would it take for us to get to those lofty expectations in BASKETBALL?
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Nov 10, 2024, 11:55 AM
[ in reply to I expect us to be one of the top 5 programs in college football. ] |
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You certainly accept, and even trumpet, results that are far less lofty than this, year after year, from our basketball program. Throwing more money at Brad Brownell would raise the results? What would it take for us to compete as a Top Five team in the ACC in basketball, year in and year out, winning it maybe once every five years?
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Tiger Titan [46596]
TigerPulse: 78%
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We have been a top 5 team in the ACC overall the last 6-7 years.
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Nov 10, 2024, 12:00 PM
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That is a monumental accomplishment for a basketball program which is historically the worst in the ACC and remains in the bottom half of the conference in funding and attendance.
To make any remotely reasonable comparison to football, we would need to be a basketball school for 100 years and support the program accordingly. Until then, the comparison you and others desperately try to make in order to feel better about our underachieving football program is sad.
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Valley Protector [1463]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Quite a Pivot
Nov 10, 2024, 2:21 PM
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Suddenly it’s top 5 “in the ACC”.
Shameless.
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Tiger Titan [46596]
TigerPulse: 78%
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Joined: 2003
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Top 5 in the ACC is what 76er referenced for our basketball team.
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Nov 11, 2024, 10:47 PM
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He said:
“What would it take for us to compete as a Top Five team in the ACC in basketball, year in and year out, winning it maybe once every five years?”
No pivoting here, I was answering his question.
But if you want to talk about national status, we made the Elite 8 in basketball earlier this year. When have we been in the top 8 in football? It’s been a while, even though we had everything we needed to be one each of the last few years.
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1st Rounder [690]
TigerPulse: 79%
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Re: Question for those who say the game has passed Dabo by and want change
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Nov 10, 2024, 10:58 AM
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What the h*ll are you talking about? What are our expectations? You ask that question like we have unrealistic expectations and should adjust them.
ABSOLUTELY NOT! We pay top 5 money to our coaching staff. We have top 5 facilities. We have a top 5 fan base. We play in the weak and watered down ACC. We’re located in a goldmine for talent especially along the DL. Coaches in recruiting literally refer to the “Carolina’s” as DL heaven.
The point is we have literally every advantage a top 5 team could ask for. We have been to the mountain top twice fairly recently. We’ve played for the ultimate prize 4 times fairly recently. We have spit out All American after All American. We have spit out 1st round draft pick after 1st round draft pick.
And you ask what are our expectations?
TO COMPETE FOR THE NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP ON A YEARLY BASIS LIKE WE WERE FOR 6 straight years.
If once every 3/4/5 years we have a 9-4/10-3 season that’s ok no biggie as long as the next year we’re right back in the mix.
I expect to compete for and win the national championship bc we have the money and tools available to do just that. Dabo refuses to use all available resources to make sure we are consistently competing for the national championship.
Literally the only change is NIL and Portal. Everything else is still the same as it was when we were on our historic run.
ADJUST Dabo. Just ADJUST and get up with the times. Embrace it instead of fighting it. But he has refused to do that.
Games are literally asking trivia questions saying who are the 4 schools to not use the portal. I’ve literally seen that as a trivia question for a game. That’s flat out ridiculous to be listed amongst the military schools who almost can’t accept a transfer outside of a congressional recommendation or something like that.
Anybody who expects or is ok with less than this… GTFO out of here.
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Associate AD [1091]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Question for those who say the game has passed Dabo by and want change
Nov 10, 2024, 11:37 AM
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You seem angry… maybe drink a beer, relax, and stop using all caps
As for your expectations, there literally isn’t one school that’s competed for a Natty every single year of their existence
Miami, FSU, Michigan, Nebraska, Oklahoma, USC (the real one), Bama… they’ve all had notable runs, but none of them have competed every single year of their existence
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1st Rounder [690]
TigerPulse: 79%
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Re: Question for those who say the game has passed Dabo by and want change
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Nov 10, 2024, 1:06 PM
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I don’t drink alcohol. Boggles the mind.
I can use as many caps as I want when somebody asks the dumbest possible question.
Obviously reading is hard for you as well.
I literally said… if once every 3/4/5 years we have a 9-4/10-3 season that’s fine no big deal.
Obviously I know we can’t win it every single year. But we should absolutely be right there in the mix say 3/5 years. That’s the expectation level this program was at. Now we have people being happy with winning 10 games.
That’s how you slide backwards. By saying oh nobody can win it every year. Tell that to Ohio St/Georgia/Bama/ bc they are right there every year. Do they win it every year? Nope but they are right there and usually have a say in who will win it.
This university spends to much money and charges to much money for us to be ok with 9 wins or even 10. But again… if we have a 9-4/10-3 type season once every 3/4/5 years that’s no biggie as long as we’re right back in it the next year.
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Associate AD [1091]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Question for those who say the game has passed Dabo by and want change
Nov 10, 2024, 3:43 PM
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Read this and your other reply on this thread and I gotta say, I think the personal attacks are uncalled for
I also don’t need or even want everyone to see it my way, but I do think the expectation that we maintain the ‘15 to ‘20 levels is unrealistic… I mean there’s a reason that’s quoted as being a ‘Historic Run’
Thanks for chiming in and enjoy the rest of your weekend
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1st Rounder [690]
TigerPulse: 79%
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Re: Question for those who say the game has passed Dabo by and want change
Nov 10, 2024, 8:59 PM
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I was t purposely trying to attack you. If it came off that way then I apologize but bro… that’s a really dumb question to ask.
If you ask a dumb question then expect those type of responses.
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Tiger Titan [46596]
TigerPulse: 78%
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Joined: 2003
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If the 2015-2020 period is unrealistic to maintain
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Nov 11, 2024, 10:52 PM
[ in reply to Re: Question for those who say the game has passed Dabo by and want change ] |
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then why are we paying our coaching staff top dollar and supporting the football program like an elite one?
We aren’t elite, and we haven’t been for a few years.
The inputs aren’t matching the outputs. That’s a problem.
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Head Coach [951]
TigerPulse: 100%
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To answer OPs question
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Nov 10, 2024, 11:13 AM
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1. Thoroughly dominate this pathetic basketball conference every year. Undefeated in conference play or if we lose it’s something like ‘16 Pitt where it’s by a last second field goal after a game plan fell out of the sky for Pitt and the refs were on payroll. Nothing like what we saw against Lville, ever
2. Competitive in OOC, no drubbings, maybe we lose 1
OOC, but it’s close and we realistically could win a rematch
3. Make and compete in the playoffs 3 out of every 4 years, with a playoff win(s) in at least 2 of those years. Again not saying we win it all every 3 years, but when we’re there and it’s a realistic shot
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Campus Hero [13228]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 2010
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Here's a short list (not comprehensive)
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Nov 10, 2024, 11:13 AM
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Things I expect:
1) Receivers who run good routes
2) Defenders who wrap up and tackle
3) Field goal units that get routine kicks off without blocks
4) Quarterbacks who use the pocket rather than panic
5) Quarterbacks who throw routes on-time rather than late
6) Game-plans that move the ball upfield rather than east/west
7) Backs who pick up the blitz
8) 3rd and long coverage that doesn't give a 15 yard cushion
... etc
This is just off the top of my head without really thinking back to all of the things we've witnessed this year.
PS - I don't say fire Dabo or the game has passed him by or whatever, I just say that he needs to adjust to the current landscape and there are a lot of ways he could do that. I am rooting for him as he stands against the transfer portal so my preference for a solution would be for him to hire actual qualified position coaches and let them coach.
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Associate AD [1091]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Here's a short list (not comprehensive)
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Nov 10, 2024, 11:43 AM
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You realize he could ‘adjust to the current landscape’ and literally everyone of those things could still happen… right
heck, those things are fixed through coaching, practice, and development… if guys portal in that means less time to develop and those problems you listed could get worse
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Campus Hero [13228]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 2010
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re-read my solution***
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Nov 10, 2024, 11:51 AM
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1st Rounder [690]
TigerPulse: 79%
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Re: re-read my solution***
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Nov 10, 2024, 1:10 PM
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He can’t read bro or either he can and just wants you to see it his way.
He lost all credibility with the dumbest possible question.
What the h*ll do you think expectations are for the 2nd highest paid HC in America. That’s directed at the OP and not you bro.
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Tiger Titan [46596]
TigerPulse: 78%
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Joined: 2003
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Its a lot easier to stomach disappointing results
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Nov 10, 2024, 12:14 PM
[ in reply to Re: Here's a short list (not comprehensive) ] |
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when the willingness and effort are there.
I remember our 1999 season, Tommy Bowden’s first. We weren’t great, but we played a very tough schedule and were competitive in every game - including against an FSU team who ultimately won the national championship. I remember being so proud of that team because they played hard, were innovative, and seemed to play at or above their supposed potential.
The last few years, in contrast, have been fraught with super talented rosters that underperform, players not playing disciplined football, and coaches who don’t warrant their positions or salaries. To make matters worse, we have a head coach who is hamstringing us by refusing to fully embrace NIL or the transfer portal - two avenues to improve our talent base.
It’s super frustrating to devote so much money and support to our program, with everything in place to have high level success, only to have a staff who falls well short of what is expected at this level.
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Commissioner [1269]
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Re: Question for those who say the game has passed Dabo by and want change
Nov 10, 2024, 12:03 PM
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Game hasn’t passed him by and I hate talk of portal but if he’s going to lose experienced players to portal he has to replace them with experience
What about players we recruited that went elsewhere and are in portal. He’s already vetted them for his culture.
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CU Medallion [19359]
TigerPulse: 100%
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It's winning the very weak ACC, making the playoffs, and
Nov 11, 2024, 10:52 PM
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playing competitively vs. winning and top 25 teams in the regular season. Simple as that.
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National Champion [7883]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Question for those who say the game has passed Dabo by and want change
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Nov 12, 2024, 7:00 AM
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Paying Dabo top 2 money. Staff is among the highest paid in the nation. We should be top 10 every year. Being a middling ACC team in the mayo bowl is unacceptable
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Orange Blooded [2389]
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I expect the program to graduate players
Nov 12, 2024, 7:33 AM
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who play hard, then go out into the world and make a positive difference.
I'm not a Clemson man, but, I think I'm describing Clemson men.
So, I expect the program to produce Clemson men.
And I think Clemson men tend to win more than they lose.
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Ring of Honor [21238]
TigerPulse: 85%
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Re: Question for those who say the game has passed Dabo by and want change
Nov 12, 2024, 8:23 AM
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With how bad the ACC is we should be winning it every single year.
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All-Pro [721]
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Re: Question for those who say the game has passed Dabo by and want change
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Nov 12, 2024, 8:24 AM
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I’m one of the very people you asked. With that said I feel like we should be capable of playing for the ACC 3/5 years with the current state of the ACC. But it’s not really about wins and losses before me. More importantly I want to compete for premium talent. I don’t want to lose bidding wars by default. I want someone to push for NIL donation. That stumping for funding can only come from one person. I also want to hear him talk positively of it instead of bashing it.
I think those things help drastically. I want someone that is not willing to push the boundaries with the rules in today’s time. I don’t want to be the odd man out who is trying to “do it the right way” whatever the #### that is.
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All-Conference [401]
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I am not a "Nay-sayer" and I don't expect anything either
Nov 12, 2024, 9:37 AM
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I am not Dabo, nor am I a coach, nothing I say matters in any scope of the imagination as it pertains to Clemson Football. I do not expect anything from Dabo or Clemson for that matter, I have learned that is a quick path to heartache over the last several years. I also feel Dabo has provided a great deal to the university and deserves leeway in how he runs his program.
However, as a fan there is a good deal of stuff I would like to see change:
1. I would like us to have the best coaches we can get on the sidelines and having coaches removed as soon as they prove to be inept at their position.
2. I would like the team, from the head coach all the way down to equipment manager, to perform with great effort and intensity each time Clemson participates in practice or in a game. Mind you I did not say win every game, I said play and coach with intensity and effort.
3. I would like our teams to be prepared mentally and physically as much as they can for every game they play, regardless of opponent.
4. I would like to have the best players Clemson can get, this includes utilizing the portal and NIL to obtain players to fill holes in our roster (see DE, LB and OL this year), along with managing our roster in a better manner than it has in the past. Mind you I did not say fill the roster with all 5 stars, just get the best we can get, even if it is a 3 star.
If we did all of those things I feel the schedule/wins and losses would take care of themselves.
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National Champion [8039]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Question for those who say the game has passed Dabo by and want change
Nov 12, 2024, 9:50 AM
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Not NC or bust but best is the standard. We haven’t seen the best out of our team since 2020. Competitive with the big boys. Make he CFP and show we belong. That’s enough as long as a NC is sprinkled in every decade. That’s not unreasonable considering that’s what we were sold.
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