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TNET: More Clemson opener reaction: Lack of speed limits offensive playcalling
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Sep 5, 2023, 3:30 PM
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Ring of Honor [21625]
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Re: TNET: More Clemson opener reaction: Lack of speed limits offensive playcalling
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Sep 5, 2023, 3:36 PM
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Thanks David!!
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All-Time Great [89424]
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So the wrs that cant get any separation, are they just
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Sep 5, 2023, 3:43 PM
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recruiting misses?
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Paw Master [17288]
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agree i refuse to believe we have missed
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Sep 5, 2023, 3:46 PM
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on every one and they are all that slow. dukes wrs had separation most of the night
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All-Pro [750]
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Re: agree i refuse to believe we have missed
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Sep 5, 2023, 8:23 PM
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But in fact, they are that slow. Not rocket science to understand how we end up with B Spector and C Turner on Scholarship. I know that Turner was supposed to have been clocked at 4.46 but I don't believe that was electronically timed in a camp as he doesn't look that fast nor has it translated to the field. As for 100 meter times it's been covered on the board and local sports talk in detail. There was not a single receiver that has been timed at a sub 11 second 100 meters. That's FCS slow. T Brown has been timed at 10.89. OK, not blazing fast but apparently the fastest player on offense. But he's listed at 170 lbs. As a point of reference Jacoby Ford was near world class down at 10.05 and Spiller ran 10.22. UGA has a receiver running 10.15 and multiple others that can fly. Help is on the way but for now the cupboard is basically bare regarding foot speed. Really shocked that this comes as surprise to anyone that has watched more than a handful of games over the past 2 years.
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CU Guru [1898]
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Re: agree i refuse to believe we have missed
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Sep 6, 2023, 10:18 AM
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Look, it is a fact that our receivers lack breakaway speed. But to say they can’t get separation is baloney. Coaches need to capitalize on the skills they do have. Hunter Renfrow is a great example. Hunter did not have blazing speed but he knew how to get separation. That skill is still serving him well in the pros. Our guys need to get out 10-12 yards and get separation. Coaches need to work on this. Heck, there is a ton of tape on Hunter Renfrow. Study them!
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Freshman [7]
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Re: agree i refuse to believe we have missed
Sep 6, 2023, 4:30 PM
[ in reply to Re: agree i refuse to believe we have missed ] |
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The surprise is in 2+ years they can’t figure it out. Just throw jump balls to your big guys to make defenses have to think about it. That was always done in the past. You could move Williams outside or, hell, start trying out your corners. Plenty of things to do and try instead of pussyfooting around the field.
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Freshman [7]
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Re: agree i refuse to believe we have missed
Sep 6, 2023, 4:30 PM
[ in reply to Re: agree i refuse to believe we have missed ] |
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The surprise is in 2+ years they can’t figure it out. Just throw jump balls to your big guys to make defenses have to think about it. That was always done in the past. You could move Williams outside or, hell, start trying out your corners. Plenty of things to do and try instead of pussyfooting around the field.
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Recruit [62]
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Re: agree i refuse to believe we have missed
Sep 6, 2023, 7:47 PM
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Our WR play dropped off overnight when Jeff Scott left. They are being coached.
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Tiger Spirit [9787]
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Re: agree i refuse to believe we have missed
Sep 6, 2023, 11:31 AM
[ in reply to agree i refuse to believe we have missed ] |
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Duke’s WRs seldom had separation on Monday.
Their big yardage pass plays were short passes towards the sidelines when one of our LBs had a busted assignment.
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Paw Master [16860]
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Rock Defender [50]
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Re: "No, the recruiting has been fine...just fine"***
Sep 6, 2023, 11:32 AM
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SEEN THIS LAST YEAR OUR RECEIVERS NOT GETTING OPEN DUKE DB WAS STEP BY STEP WITH OUR RECEIVERS THAT SHOULD NOT HAPPEN IF WE SUPPOSE TO BE THE ACC POWER HOUSE TEAM
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Offensive Star [304]
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Re: So the wrs that cant get any separation, are they just
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Sep 5, 2023, 9:52 PM
[ in reply to So the wrs that cant get any separation, are they just ] |
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Recruitment busts, ignoring the transfer portal, plus poor development from Grisham and this is what we are left with.
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All-TigerNet [10403]
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Should anyone redshirt anymore?
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Sep 5, 2023, 3:45 PM
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In the day and age of the portal I wonder how wise it is to redshirt players. There's no guarantee they will be around for the duration of their eligibility. If someone can help play them now.
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Top TigerNet [31186]
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True. At this point, we will redshirt ourselves into obscurity.
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Sep 5, 2023, 3:52 PM
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Tiger Spirit [9787]
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Re: True. At this point, we will redshirt ourselves into obscurity.
Sep 6, 2023, 11:56 AM
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Dabo has created and nurtured the Clemson culture as one that develops players and that therefore engenders mutually loyalty as per the ‘family’ environment.
This approach allows us (a program with … relatively speaking … meager financial resources compared to SEC and B1G programs) to acquire a roster that has the talent of those big money programs. The drawback is that recruits are not proven stars, and that sometimes a highly rated recruit becomes a just-OK player (Ngata).
Dabo’s approach will keep us solidly ensconced in the upper tier of FB programs nationwide. We won’t be repeating that period from 2015 through 2020. Period. The NIL, with its ‘highest bidder gets the play-for-pay star’ variable, precludes us from getting the Jameson Williams / John Metchie / J’Marr Chase / Caleb Williams type players.
If we ‘cheat’ extensively on our cultural reputation, then we will be left without both the ‘culture’ and will still be unable to buy players via the NIL / Portal.
Back to RS’ing. RS’ing still works in a big way. UNC QB and Heisman candidate Drake Maye RS’d. He could have gone anywhere he wanted after 2022 season, but stuck with Mack Brown.
For us, Ruke Orhorhoro could have gone almost anywhere after last season; he stayed with us. We will RS Vizzina unless something happens to Klubnik.
Loyalty and willingness to ‘invest’ in a player so that his time as an on-field performer is optimized has created a favorable reputation for Clemson.
We are getting a good ROI (return on investment) by RS’ing selectively.
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Game Changer [1761]
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Re: Should anyone redshirt anymore?
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Sep 5, 2023, 4:53 PM
[ in reply to Should anyone redshirt anymore? ] |
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Absolutely, you have to play the guys that will help you now.
If you don't, you'll be watching them play for somebody else.
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Clemson Sports Icon [59584]
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Re: Should anyone redshirt anymore?
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Sep 5, 2023, 5:27 PM
[ in reply to Should anyone redshirt anymore? ] |
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When I was hearing about what players they wanted to red shirt, I to was wondering why, but answering my own questions about it, I said they must be under sized and not strong enough to play right but would have a ton of upsize once they had time in the weight room. Maybe with the portal, we shouldn't recruit kids that's that far away from being ready to play after an off season regardless of how much upsize they would have after a season and off season to get their body developed bc like what's been said, after whatever time that it takes to get their body developed to play college ball, they are pisssed enough to enter the portal, and all we accomplished with them is to get their body ready for them to leave and play for somebody else. Like has been said a million times, the portal has ruined college FB, especially with the way that thing have always been done.
The answer to those problems are, if you can't beat them the old the way, you better get with the program and do it the way everybody else is doing it, and that is if they're not ready with the body type coming out of HS plus an off season, go find what we need from the portal, the recruiting place for picking up players that are ready, or about ready to compete for a spot!!! That is they way it seems that college FB has moved to!!!
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Orange Elite [5594]
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Did Riley know about the speed issue when he took the gig?
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Sep 5, 2023, 3:46 PM
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That would be interesting to know. Someone should ask that question.
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Scout Team [162]
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Re: Did Riley know about the speed issue when he took the gig?
Sep 6, 2023, 12:04 PM
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He had not seen two OL starters (Tate and Parks), nor two WRs that were expected to either start or play many snaps (Collins and Randall). That would make any OC anxious. He can’t come up with the right plays and right play sequence until he saw what his expected starters could do.
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Orange Blooded [2446]
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Re: Did Riley know about the speed issue when he took the gig?
Sep 6, 2023, 6:42 AM
[ in reply to Did Riley know about the speed issue when he took the gig? ] |
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According to the article above, our lack of speed is glaring and well known. If he didnt know, thats on him for not doing his homework. It would seem that Riley has done more with less, though.
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National Champion [8043]
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Re: TNET: More Clemson opener reaction: Lack of speed limits offensive playcalling
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Sep 5, 2023, 3:47 PM
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That’s pretty much what I’ve been screaming. Receivers can’t stretch the field. They are average at best. How did we miss so badly?! The answer is in the portal but Dabo refuses to see it.
The defensive woes are glaring as well. Soft coverage in zone is a recipe to get picked apart. That’s exactly what has happened since Goodwin took over. When we played press man and let the line pin their ears back, Doook couldn’t get going. Then, we would go back into zone and lose gap integrity and Doook exploited it.
The answers are there. Is Dabo willing to fix them? By hiring a defensive coordinator that has proven track record. And creating NIL opportunities to attract the best players the portal has to offer. It’s the Wild West right now and we’re the only ones not participating. It’s starting to show.
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National Champion [7561]
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the jury is still out on the O Line. We gotta remember
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Sep 5, 2023, 3:50 PM
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this was Duke not FSU or Notre Dame or Alabama or Ohio State... so this defensive line is about like what East Carolina would have. Hopefully they are much improved as was shown last night, but who knows. Just a crummy way to start the year.
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Commissioner [1259]
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Re: the jury is still out on the O Line. We gotta remember
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Sep 5, 2023, 4:43 PM
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No I have to disagree there. Duke has good defensive lineman. The may not be elite, but they are definitely not East Carolina level. You are going by the name on the helmet and not the actual players in the uniform.
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Game Changer [1622]
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Re: the jury is still out on the O Line. We gotta remember
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Sep 5, 2023, 5:00 PM
[ in reply to the jury is still out on the O Line. We gotta remember ] |
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I, a habitual constructive critic of our O-Line, actually felt they were 'fine' last night. Not great, not terrible. That's better than years past IMHO but the sample size is very small.
Also, as you always hear, no one notices if the Line is doing its job unless they let the QB get sacked or RBs get smoked behind of the LOS. So from the beer-lensed eye test, I think they were 'fine'. I'll have to put on my reading glasses for a formal opine lol.
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Athletic Dir [1147]
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Tiger Spirit [9787]
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Re: the jury is still out on the O Line. We gotta remember
Sep 6, 2023, 12:13 PM
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Pass blocking was actually quite good. Pass protection is not expected to be impermeable for 5+ seconds.
Our WRs struggle to get open. Therefore, more time in the pocket got the QB is needed.
Our QB has not yet gotten his reads down (although he has improved greatly from last year). Therefore, more time is needed.
Unfortunately, even a good pass protecting OL will not consistently provide the extra second to compensate for the WR and QB deficiencies. Our OL gave consistently good protection on non-blitz situations for 4+ seconds. When the D blitzes, it is incumbent on the QB to see or ‘feel’ the unblocked pressure, and then move in the pocket accordingly or hit the hot route.
Our offense is a work-in-progress on this.
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Top TigerNet [31186]
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Then whoever recruited and signed all these wide receivers needs to be fired
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Sep 5, 2023, 3:51 PM
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🙄
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Rival Killer [2820]
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Re: Then whoever recruited and signed all these wide receivers needs to be fired
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Sep 5, 2023, 4:18 PM
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Grisham
This goes back to Jeff Scott leaving. Jeff was a much better talent evaluator. Obviously
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Commissioner [1259]
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Re: Then whoever recruited and signed all these wide receivers needs to be fired
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Sep 5, 2023, 4:45 PM
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Thus is the thing. People keep wanting to say the coaches are doing a bad job of evaluating talent. Nobody wants to accept that this may just be the best talent we were able to get.
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Clemson Sports Icon [59584]
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Re: Then whoever recruited and signed all these wide receivers needs to be fired
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Sep 5, 2023, 5:54 PM
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Players go to where their position coach has earned a name for putting players in the NFL 1st, 2nd, and 3d round in the draft....
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Commissioner [1259]
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Re: Then whoever recruited and signed all these wide receivers needs to be fired
Sep 6, 2023, 10:47 AM
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No, not really.
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All-Pro [750]
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Clemson Sports Icon [59584]
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Re: Then whoever recruited and signed all these wide receivers needs to be fired
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Sep 5, 2023, 5:52 PM
[ in reply to Then whoever recruited and signed all these wide receivers needs to be fired ] |
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There are some on here with myself included, Grisham should have been working somewhere else before Streeter was let go, I doubt it bc of experience, but Streeter may have lasted longer if we had a WR coach that could develop the WR's that we had. Since Jeff Scott has been gone, I don't think we've had one of our younger WR's to get drafted, and if we have, it was in the very late rounds. Tee Higgins is the only WR we have had go high in the draft since 2019, and that was one of Jeff Scotts. Amari Rodgers went in the 3d round and has trouble sticking with a team. But he was one of Jeffs younger WRS that played for Grisham, but I don't think that Grisham has a WR get drafted that he has developed, and it would seem that Dabo has recognized that by now.
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Tiger Spirit [9787]
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Playmaker [358]
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Re: TNET: More Clemson opener reaction: Lack of speed limits offensive playcalling
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Sep 5, 2023, 3:52 PM
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I’m asking this, honestly, because Duke put up more points. If we switch WR groups with Duke, do we win that game?
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All-TigerNet [6088]
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Re: TNET: More Clemson opener reaction: Lack of speed limits offensive playcalling
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Sep 5, 2023, 4:31 PM
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I don’t think we had a wide receiver fumble in the red zone. Please correct me if I am wrong.
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Clemson Sports Icon [59584]
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Re: TNET: More Clemson opener reaction: Lack of speed limits offensive playcalling
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Sep 5, 2023, 6:09 PM
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No I don't think we did, they weren't getting enough separation for Cade to get the ball in their hands.
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1st Rounder [630]
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Starter [299]
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Re: TNET: More Clemson opener reaction: Lack of speed limits offensive playcalling
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Sep 5, 2023, 5:27 PM
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Exactly ! I have been saying for years that we have poor punting and that is part of the defense. You look at other teams Utah, Georgia and even Duke last night they boom punts down the field instead of running around kicking the ball on the side. Please RECRUIT A PUNTER.
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Game Changer [1630]
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I remember when Chad Morris first came here
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Sep 5, 2023, 3:54 PM
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As OC. He wasn't shy about admitting we lacked speed at wr. He got it turned around quickly, though. Hope Riley can do the same.
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Tiger Spirit [9787]
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Re: I remember when Chad Morris first came here
Sep 6, 2023, 12:17 PM
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Chad Morris was responsible for making Sammy Watkins a speed burner.
Right.
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Clemson Conqueror [11394]
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Re: TNET: More Clemson opener reaction: Lack of speed limits offensive playcalling
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Sep 5, 2023, 3:56 PM
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Three plays from last night stand out to me.
1. Antonio Williams fielded a first half punt and took off to the far side (Clemson side) of the field. It appeared as though he would be able to turn the corner and make a nice return. But out of nowhere, a Duke coverage guys runs him down from behind and Antonio never does make it to the edge.
2. Phil Mafah busts up the middle, cuts toward the Clemson sideline, which most certainly appears to be a go ahead touch down. But wait, a Duke defensive back comes slicing in from behind on the left and catches Phil at about the ten. Of course, the Tigers then cough it up shortly thereafter and we get nothing.
3. Riley Leonard is in the arms of one of our defenders. Certainly a sack. But wait, he escapes and dashes off along the Duke sideline and outruns our defense for a go ahead score. We never recover.
4. In general, our receivers are slow, our running backs, though tough and talented, are slow, and the team looks slow. Don't know how our coaches evaluate players, but speed should be very important.
5. Last year, we were told that Adam Randall is a speed burner. I have not seen it.
As many have said over the years, speed burns. We are definitely not high octane right now.
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Commissioner [1259]
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Re: TNET: More Clemson opener reaction: Lack of speed limits offensive playcalling
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Sep 5, 2023, 4:53 PM
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Again, was it poor evaluation, or did nobody better want to come here?
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Game Changer [1622]
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Re: TNET: More Clemson opener reaction: Lack of speed limits offensive playcalling
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Sep 5, 2023, 5:04 PM
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I think David's comment about how the defense overloading the box makes sense to me relative to the speed evaluation of players...if they are getting squished to make plays laterally, no one is going to be fast or get separation.
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Tiger Spirit [9787]
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Re: TNET: More Clemson opener reaction: Lack of speed limits offensive playcalling
Sep 6, 2023, 12:25 PM
[ in reply to Re: TNET: More Clemson opener reaction: Lack of speed limits offensive playcalling ] |
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That none from among Mafah, A.Williams, A.Randall, W.Shipley are speed burners does not mean that their presence on our team is the result of ‘poor evaluation.’
The lack of speed is due to the fact that we haven’t been fortunate enough to sign guys who played the position in question that also possessed great speed.
For example, Nate Wiggins is faster than both Will Shipley and Phil Mafah. Yet, Wiggins would be an infinitely worse RB than either Shipley and Mafah.
Andrew Mukuba is faster than Antonio Williams. A.Williams has the superior hands / ball catching skills. Therefore, A.Williams is the obviously better receiver, despite his lack of top end speed.
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Top TigerNet [28017]
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Thanks for the update David!!!!***
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Sep 5, 2023, 4:05 PM
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Associate AD [1049]
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Re: TNET: More Clemson opener reaction: Lack of speed limits offensive playcalling
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Sep 5, 2023, 4:07 PM
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The lack of production from the WR's is still concerning. Still, Clemson played better than the score indicates. Dabo's coach Stallings lost his first three games and then did not lose another one until after he secured a National Championship. The season is not lost.
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Tiger Titan [46614]
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Did you run this by 76er first?***
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Sep 5, 2023, 4:08 PM
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Game Changer [1622]
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Re: Did you run this by 76er first?***
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Sep 5, 2023, 5:03 PM
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Bazinga, LOL.
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Legend [6971]
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Tiger Spirit [9778]
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Re: TNET: More Clemson opener reaction: Lack of speed limits offensive playcalling
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Sep 5, 2023, 4:11 PM
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That has been the problem and you could tell we know that by the number of balls in the direction of Shipley and Williams. We simply do not scare defenses and development of the run game is key but neither Shipley nor Mahfa can make a house call. We need to play old fashioned smash mouth ball because Ship and Mahfa are suited for that. Catch the saftey up and then throw.
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Orange Elite [5234]
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Replace Grisham! Now!***
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Sep 5, 2023, 4:12 PM
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Asst Coach [886]
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Re: TNET: More Clemson opener reaction: Lack of speed limits offensive playcalling
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Sep 5, 2023, 4:14 PM
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The “let the old guys play because they’ve paid their dues” is a tired trope. You’re at a level as a program where the best bodies have to be on the field regardless of “paid dues.” As far as Red Shirts go, I understand the principle. Let a kid sit, improve his body and understand the game more. But if the kid is that talented he’s going to be gone in 3 years regardless. Doesn’t it make more sense to lose a Jr you’ve gotten 3 solid years out of as compared to a (RS) SO you’ve only gotten 2 out of?
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All-In [34487]
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We're slow and unathletic. But we make up for it by being
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Sep 5, 2023, 4:16 PM
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bad fundamentally and schematically.
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Walk-On [108]
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Re: TNET: More Clemson opener reaction: Lack of speed limits offensive playcalling
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Sep 5, 2023, 4:18 PM
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I’ll take it a step further we can’t make a man miss. Sometimes you’ve got to win a 1 on1 matchup in space. There were more than a few cases last night when Duke just made the tackle in open space we couldn’t make a move in open field
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Clemson Sports Icon [54814]
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Re: TNET: More Clemson opener reaction: Lack of speed limits offensive playcalling
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Sep 5, 2023, 5:43 PM
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And Duke did... Duke. And their wrs got separation. Pitiful for a head coach who is a WR coach.
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Tiger Spirit [9787]
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Re: TNET: More Clemson opener reaction: Lack of speed limits offensive playcalling
Sep 6, 2023, 12:30 PM
[ in reply to Re: TNET: More Clemson opener reaction: Lack of speed limits offensive playcalling ] |
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You’ve perfectly detailed why a non-burner guy like Antonio Williams gets open so often. It is not raw speed, but instead deceptive moves plus a first quick step AFTER making his move that makes A.Williams so good. (Also, his very good hands.)
He is the 2023 Clemson team’s version of Hunter Renfrow.
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Rival Killer [2664]
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Lack of speed limits offensive playcalling
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Sep 5, 2023, 4:21 PM
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Then by all means go out and get them some PF Flyers!
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Orange Blooded [2218]
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Re: TNET: More Clemson opener reaction: Lack of speed limits offensive playcalling
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Sep 5, 2023, 4:31 PM
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I fell for this same "player development" idea thinking that somehow our receivers would be able to create separation this year. I knew from watching a couple of TCU games from last year that their O only works if the receivers can get open. I was hoping against hope that the receivers had "developed" during the off-season. It was just wishful thinking. I think it's going to be a long, difficult season.
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Game Day Hero [4230]
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David needs to do his homework on Jarvis Green
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Sep 5, 2023, 4:32 PM
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I've seen a ton of Dutch Fork games. He has talent, but he isn't a speed guy at all. He's wishing for something that isn't there. I don't care what his listed 40 time is, he didn't run away from guys on the high school level. I doubt it happens on the college level.
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All-Pro [750]
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Re: David needs to do his homework on Jarvis Green
Sep 5, 2023, 9:12 PM
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I've seen a ton of Dutch Fork games. He has talent, but he isn't a speed guy at all. He's wishing for something that isn't there. I don't care what his listed 40 time is, he didn't run away from guys on the high school level. I doubt it happens on the college level.
Likely stopwatch times and not electronically timed at a camp, track, or all star combine. Shipley has been "timed" at at 4.45 but gets caught from behind by even pedestrian teams. More like a solid 4.5.
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Offensive Star [308]
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Re: TNET: More Clemson opener reaction: Lack of speed limits offensive playcalling
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Sep 5, 2023, 4:33 PM
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Speed? You think we need more speed at WR? The problem is the OL doesn't protect the QB long enough to call vertical routes. Can't even defend a 1 yard run.
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Trainer [26]
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Re: TNET: More Clemson opener reaction: Lack of speed limits offensive playcalling
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1
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Sep 5, 2023, 4:35 PM
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I said it last year and I will say it again. Time for Fat Boy Goodwin to go back to Waffle House. He is a horrible DC.
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Valley Legend [12904]
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Re: TNET: More Clemson opener reaction: Lack of speed limits offensive playcalling
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Sep 5, 2023, 4:50 PM
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I don't know why everyone did not know this. We knew we had this problem months ago. I guess people thought somehow Riley could scheme around it.
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Orange Elite [5555]
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This urge to redshirt guys needs stop
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5
Sep 5, 2023, 4:59 PM
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Jarvis Green needs to see the field. I agree that Jarvis could be a great change of pace between Shipley and Mafah, and he could be the home run hitter we've been missing at RB.
Spector, Randall, and Turner couldn't get separation to save their lives last night so why not give Noble Johnson and Misun Kelley a shot?
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Team Captain [498]
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Ain't buying that crap. Teams that should
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Sep 5, 2023, 5:10 PM
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be weaker and less talented still have WR's that can get separation on occassion. Our WR's look like they're running 1/2 speed practice routes.
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Starter [299]
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Re: TNET: More Clemson opener reaction: Lack of speed limits offensive playcalling
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Sep 5, 2023, 5:11 PM
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It's Offensive line play and receivers that still drop the ball. B. Collins has the speed but you got to turn him loose vertically down the field. We have speed at RB use them. For that you have to protect the QB no matter who it is . Since the 2019 Title game, LSU's offensive line out played our offensive line and it hasn't improved. The first half against Duke the O-line was not good but the second half they improved markedly and it was turnovers that decimated us.
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Head Coach [946]
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Re: TNET: More Clemson opener reaction: Lack of speed limits offensive playcalling
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3
Sep 5, 2023, 5:23 PM
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It’s so frustrating because the fix for the lack of speed is really simple: grab 1-2 quality additions from the portal. You don’t have to go wild and pull a Deion Sanders, or even a Mike Norvell, but SOMEONE who can be a leader and make the defense respect the passing game. This program is operating with a hand tied behind its back via not using the portal, which has improved so many teams. And unfortunately, our head coach is the one with the rope
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Clemson Conqueror [11394]
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Re: TNET: More Clemson opener reaction: Lack of speed limits offensive playcalling
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2
Sep 5, 2023, 5:40 PM
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Finally, yours truly sees the portal light. Yep, if the other big boys are using it, so should we. It's now obvious that not all of our 4 and 5 star guys develop into much of anything.
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All-TigerNet [12666]
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Something called the transfer portal
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3
Sep 5, 2023, 5:32 PM
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Could have helped.
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Paw Warrior [4751]
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How come Dukes WRs were getting separation?***
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Sep 5, 2023, 5:46 PM
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Game Day Hero [4317]
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Re: How come Dukes WRs were getting separation?***
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Sep 5, 2023, 5:58 PM
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Because Our DB’s Play 12-15 yards off the line of scrimmage 80% of the time!
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Clemson Sports Icon [54814]
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Re: How come Dukes WRs were getting separation?***
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Sep 5, 2023, 6:29 PM
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Yes they do and why? Our lbs and dbs are supposed to be a strength. We're talking Duke, Duke... if we can't play press and contain their qb, what are we going to do with really good teams. No adjustments by Goodwin?
I'd love to see the OL grades. Because I saw too many times when playing it back that Cade didn't have a pocket to step into. Now, that said, Cade did have happy feet and bailed a few times when he didn't need to.
But, we got a steady diet of
"coles going to be a special talent. He's so special, he doesn't know how good he is "
"Randall is fast. He's going to be a great wr and he can fly "
"Beaux, he's special, if he can stay healthy, he's going to make a ton of plays for us this year. He's going to be playing for a long time "
Not anything wrong with sticking up for and positive feedback. I'd disrespect Dabo or any coach that did not do that. But saying it and trying to will it to fruition is different. He gets paid big bucks to get kids here that are already at that level. Even if it does mean going portal.
The deeper problem is if those guys don't want to come here when at one time did.
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CU Medallion [20979]
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Legend [7050]
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Re: TNET: More Clemson opener reaction: Lack of speed limits offensive playcalling
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8
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Sep 5, 2023, 6:29 PM
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Imagine if we went into the portal instead. There are still stubborn pumpers on this board that refuse to recognize that our approach to the portal is hurting us.
Our WRs are terrible and it infects the entire offense as a result. They’ve been terrible for 3 years straight. And not once did we reach into the portal to fix it.
I don’t care what anyone says, if we had signed 1-2 portal WRs, we would have beaten South Carolina last year and made the playoffs. And we would have beaten Duke last night.
Cole Turner should not be a starting WR at Clemson. Adam Randall offers us nothing. Antonio is good, Beaux is average. Those are our top 4 WRs. That is a terrible WR core. It’s one of the worst in the conference.
Use the #### portal.
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CU Medallion [20979]
TigerPulse: 100%
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PREACH IT Brother!
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Sep 5, 2023, 8:04 PM
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To be honest with you, the Dead Solid Marion bunch has got to have some skin in this game. They are too intelligent to be this obtuse to what is going on.
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Campus Hero [13106]
TigerPulse: 100%
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should fire everyone including the entire TNET membership***
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Sep 5, 2023, 6:40 PM
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MVP [548]
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Re: TNET: More Clemson opener reaction: Lack of speed limits offensive playcalling
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Sep 5, 2023, 6:44 PM
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First off, I still don’t buy the “Dabo isn’t calling the plays” sentiment. If it’s just “input”, it’s very inept and he needs to just let the man do his job. If it IS Garrett Riley calling it all, I’m dumbfounded at how bad it was and i find myself somewhat uncomfortable for the near future.
As far as the speed excuse, Dabo himself said that this team is the fastest that he’s had overall from the metrics they use.
I also think we’re missing yet ANOTHER point that’s never addressed in-depth by any of our staff or reporters. Strength and conditioning. We’ve been getting pushed around for years on what seems like both sides of the ball by good AND mediocre teams. Seems to me that’s another reason for the lack of “speed”.
But I digress. Hoping for better days ahead. Go Tigers.
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Letterman [182]
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Re: TNET: More Clemson opener reaction: Lack of speed limits offensive playcalling
Sep 5, 2023, 7:01 PM
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Why is it our job to analyze and fix this? Dabo and admins paid big bucks for Riley’s so called knowledge. Georgia made TCU look average much like we did last night. Maybe we didn’t choose wisely.
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Freshman [2]
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Re: TNET: More Clemson opener reaction: Lack of speed limits offensive playcalling
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Sep 5, 2023, 7:03 PM
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There is an Obvious solution!!! Try our most explosive play maker out wide! Put will Shipley at receiver from time to time and let mafah handle more snaps at running back. We need to use shipley more like mccaffrey. Also 300 receivers in the portal and we didn’t end up with any 🤯 we have to change our portal philosophy if we can’t recruit explosive receivers.
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Orange Blooded [2416]
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Re: TNET: More Clemson opener reaction: Lack of speed limits offensive playcalling
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Sep 5, 2023, 7:30 PM
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I have read many many posts today. I waited to comment until I had something of value to say, that hasn't already been said. Here it goes...
When I played basketball many years ago, I played forward. When I would drive baseline, my coaches would remind me that baseline is "no-man's land". What happens when you drive one on one to the base line? You immediately are double teamed by the player guarding you and the baseline itself. Using that scenario, it's pretty easy to defend a receiver when they are spread out super wide like our guys have been doing. By doing so, a defender can cheat to the inside and maintain close coverage without fear of getting beat to the outside. Essentially, the receiver is double teamed by the defense and the defense only needs to provide one player in coverage to do it. The sideline is not your friend. Think about it for a second. Where can the route be? Either straight or to the field side. The out is out. Furthermore, we don't have the size or talent to consistently win the 50/50 ball. And we don't have the speed to burn the defenders deep. Nor do we have the time to let crossing routes to develop. That means we are limited to the inside slants or bubble screens. Perhaps we fear the slants because the chance of getting someone hurt is raised exponentially. THAT HAS TO BE THE REASON WE ARE CONSTANTLY CALLING FOR BUBBLE SCREENS. My only advice is to move the receivers a little closer to the "lane" let the big men set screens, and the forward may be able to drive to the hole. Just my 2 cents. Do you guys have change for a dollar?
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1st Rounder [608]
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Re: TNET: More Clemson opener reaction: Lack of speed limits offensive playcalling
Sep 5, 2023, 7:58 PM
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David I don’t think you mean “flooding the box”….otherwise it would have been much more difficult to run the ball last night. They certainly were not flooding the box…but flooding the zone, as you say elsewhere.
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Legend [6983]
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Re: TNET: More Clemson opener reaction: Lack of speed limits offensive playcalling
4
Sep 5, 2023, 8:27 PM
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So Dabo should have gotten some receivers out of the portal. FSU, Duke, and Colorado found receivers in the portal.
David, why not ask Dabo the hard questions about the portal. David stance on the portal is BS and everyone is scared to call him out on it, including you.
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Legend [6983]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: TNET: More Clemson opener reaction: Lack of speed limits offensive playcalling
2
Sep 5, 2023, 8:29 PM
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How did Duke get better speed than us?
Dabo is a recruiting failure?
Dabo refuses to use portal?
Has to be one or other.
This is Duke, not UGA. If we don't have talent to match up with Duke, we are a joke.
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Game Day Hero [4362]
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Not sure which is worse
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Sep 5, 2023, 9:11 PM
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Clemson imploding last night or David Hood as a journalist. What a hack.
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Heisman Winner [78359]
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Dabo said it was due to Duke's defense, "bend don't break."***
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Sep 5, 2023, 9:12 PM
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Game Day Hero [4345]
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Re: TNET: More Clemson opener reaction: Lack of speed limits offensive playcalling
Sep 5, 2023, 10:01 PM
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I’m assuming the portal had plenty of speed receivers.
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Tiger Cub [11]
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Re: TNET: More Clemson opener reaction: Lack of speed limits offensive playcalling
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Sep 5, 2023, 10:24 PM
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As well as the WR speed and miscues at the goal line, has anyone else noticed how often we lost the line of scrimmage? Duke's QB was NEVER sacked and had plenty of time to find his receivers, while Cole was pressured nearly every time. If our "improved" offensive line can't keep Duke out of the backfield, I think we're in for a long, average season when we start playing the rest of the ACC. If we don't improve soon, we won't even go to a bowl game this year. This game was a total loss, offense, defense, and special teams all failed together.
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Team Captain [472]
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Re: TNET: More Clemson opener reaction: Lack of speed limits offensive playcalling
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Sep 6, 2023, 6:13 AM
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We got pressure on the Duke QB we just didn’t finish the job. Additionally the ball was out very fast Duke did not stretch the field but their receivers had separation. Riley only completed 50% of his passes. Some of the incompletes were drops but several were from pressure.
Now the OL seemed to loose the battle on every third and long which happened a lot more than it should have.
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Orange Elite [5238]
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Re: TNET: More Clemson opener reaction: Lack of speed limits offensive playcalling
Sep 5, 2023, 11:14 PM
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Good stuff.
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All-TigerNet [14751]
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It can't be the fastest clemson tv ever one minute and then
1
Sep 6, 2023, 5:16 AM
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no wrs who can go deep when we've seen some of them on this roster go deep before.
The media coverage (not YOU, in general) is becoming unreliable.
I don't think the issue is scheme, speed, or any of that. It IS tenacity, will, heart, grit. We don't look eneergized, there is no energy from the staff. Riley looks like a librarian on the sideline. No (or few) players are getting excited.
We seem like a team that is studying too much but needs a week of running, hitting, and push ups for the PURPOSE of creating pain and discomfort and running off the guys who don't want to be here.
Back to basics.
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null [null]
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Re: TNET: More Clemson opener reaction: Lack of speed limits offensive playcalling
Sep 6, 2023, 7:10 AM
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I understand the lack of playmakers…but why? We recruit very well and for the last few years…they are either great when they step on campus or not. Why do we have a problem developing players? Seems like we need to look more at the position coaches and stop blaming the players. If the players are not putting the work in…that’s on the players…but anything else is on the staff…
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Campus Hero [13230]
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This is just false.
Sep 6, 2023, 7:14 AM
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The entire first quarter, every play we ran was east/west. The runs, the passes, everything was sideways. Those are speed plays.
So this statement is just a flat out lie. Maybe we aren't fast... ok call plays that are quick-hitting (like we did briefly in the third quarter). But if we aren't fast, you aren't dialing up lateral plays to start the game.
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Solid Orange [1386]
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Re: This is just false.
Sep 6, 2023, 11:28 AM
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A speed play is a reciever standing nearly flat-footed out in the flat? So fast that the linemen can run out there and block for them?
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Campus Hero [13230]
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Yes, if you have ever watched a successful one.
Sep 6, 2023, 11:36 AM
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Which, btw, is extremely rare.
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All-TigerNet [6088]
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David Hood
Sep 6, 2023, 10:09 AM
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Please do this type of article for the defensive side. Why zero sacks with our war daddies?
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Solid Orange [1386]
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Re: TNET: More Clemson opener reaction: Lack of speed limits offensive playcalling
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Sep 6, 2023, 10:45 AM
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As a former regional college-level 400m sprinter I will add that speed takes years to develop. Even a naturally fast athlete takes literally years to get to top competitive levels. I was not getting my best times until I was a senior with four years under my belt. Then there is the entire issue of peaking. You can train to be fast, but you need to reach that peak right as the season starts. It cannot be sustained year-round. Muscle mass is part, but the harder part is training the ability to hold higher levels of oxygen in your blood. When you are sustaining sprints play after play your body literally wants to die from the lack of O2 in the blood. That part takes way longer to develop than muscle mass. There is not going to be a fix for this this year and probably not next year either. Therefore Clemson has no choice but to find a way to dance with the girl they brought to the ball.
That said...with proper training a "slower" wideout can become faster than a defender if he can sustain the same speed play after play. Eventually, an equally fast defender will gas out because he has to run harder due to the fact that he does not know where the wideout is running to which creates the ability to get behind the defense late in the game. This flows into the WR development problems that others have mentioned previously
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Freshman [7]
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Re: TNET: More Clemson opener reaction: Lack of speed limits offensive playcalling
Sep 6, 2023, 4:25 PM
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That’s nonsense. Randall is a 4.4 guy. Both him and Collins are big dudes - just throw jump balls so the D has to think about it. If it’s that big an issue - move Williams outside and put cole or Spector in the slot. Plenty of options. If this is the excuse they’re going with - they had a year + to solve it and/or try something new.
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Varsity [111]
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Re: TNET: More Clemson opener reaction: Lack of speed limits offensive playcalling
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Sep 6, 2023, 5:22 PM
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Turner is adding nothing and taking up space. Disappointed in that choice.
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Varsity [111]
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Re: TNET: More Clemson opener reaction: Lack of speed limits offensive playcalling
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Sep 6, 2023, 5:23 PM
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Turner is adding nothing and taking up space. Disappointed in that choice.
Same with Spector
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All-Conference [432]
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Re: TNET: More Clemson opener reaction: Lack of speed limits offensive playcalling
Sep 7, 2023, 1:31 AM
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My question is if our WR’s for the last 3-4 years don’t have the speed to take the top off of the defense, like they did when we were WRU, why were they all recruited by the Tigers? I always thought that speed was something that you were basically born with. You may be able to increase speed very slightly with teachable techniques, but it can’t be increased dramatically. Obviously , catching the ball is also a necessity. It is something that definitely can be improved with technique and practice. But I would certainly expect our recruiters physically timed these guys themselves, so their speed or lack there of, can’t be a surprise!
I wish I knew what the answer is, but I don’t know a quick fix for this season, except for Riley to scheme them open. Then, and I know Dabo doesn’t agree, but using the Transfer Portal, to pick up WR’s who have actually proven themselves at this level, is my suggestion for later. Kids that can do it in HS can’t ALWAYS bring that same talent to the major college level. I trust Dabo and Riley to make the necessary adjustments. Unfortunately, it’s going to take time.
Thankfully, we have found out our limitations early and have plenty of time to try to rectify them.
GO TIGERS, BEAT FSU!!
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Solid Orange [1386]
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Re: TNET: More Clemson opener reaction: Lack of speed limits offensive playcalling
Sep 7, 2023, 8:48 AM
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Speed can be increased dramatically. But you are correct, some people are just fast from birth. What I speak of though is a talented athlete that is good enough to get recruited, but was not exactly trained right in high school. That guy can be trained to increase speed dramatically as he may have only been at 95% of his potential and he was still the fastest guy in his high school league. 5% is a dramatic increase in speed. It is the difference between running an 11.0 100m or a 10.5. That can actually be trained into an athlete that has unrealized potential from natural talent with poor h.s. training. It takes a ton of work though.
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Solid Orange [1386]
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Re: TNET: More Clemson opener reaction: Lack of speed limits offensive playcalling
Sep 7, 2023, 8:55 AM
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To be clear... a ton off-season work and dedication to it. To get the speed the bulk of their training has to be to train as a runner first and football player second. I am talking running 15 miles a day of long slow distance (LSD) from January through to March with strength training. Then going to 8 miles a day of LSD with speed workouts and strength training until camp starts in August. Once the season starts an athlete only has time to do maintenance training because playing football is the primary focus. Too late to get in shape after the season starts.
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