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All-American [590]
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Serious question for Dabo Haters...Open for debate... (long)
Jun 15, 2012, 10:29 AM
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I'm All In on Clemson. Die hard fan. One of my closest friends is as well. He has been a fan longer than me. He can tell you everything about everybody on the team over the past ten years (exageration).
The problem is that he HATES Dabo...but he still loves Clemson.
I happen to be a very big Dabo fan. I'm excited about what he is doing with the program and I think he is the best guy for they job.
We have had multiple conversations so I can try to figure out why he dislikes Dabo so much and he's argued a few points...
1. "Dabo didn't deserve the job in the first place"- To me this is irrelivent. What does that matter. Why not analyze the results he has had with the time he has had and make a decision based on that? Not to mention, I'm pretty sure there weren't a lot of high profile coaches lining up at the doors for the HC job in clemson during 2009. I think we got a steel.
2. "He is a clown. His energetic outbursts make our program look stupid."- I could not disagree more. Heaven forbid a coach get invested and excited in his program. Sure, I get it...COOTS make fun of us because Dabo can be a little goofy some times but Clemson fans should be just as excited as Dabo. I think his energetic personality is great for our program. I think it provides good publicity and appears to be fun for recruits and players.
3. "Dabo lost the last three to the Coots. Bowden owned the coots."- Ok, I get this one. I hate the fact that we are losing to these A-wholes. But you're comparing apples to oranges. Truth be told that Spurlid has turned that program into one of the top 5 SEC teams. When Bowden faced the coots, they were almost always at the bottom of the SEC. That is not a fair comparison. I truely believe we will be back to dominating the coots this year and beyond.
4. n/a
So my question to those Dabo haters...Why hate? I'm open for an intelligent debate. Why not just embrace the program that you claim to love. This has nothing to do with Nkemdiche I'm just trying to understand illogical perceptions.
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Orange Blooded [2507]
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Haters don't need logic. Haters gonna Hate***
Jun 15, 2012, 10:36 AM
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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Re: Serious question for Dabo Haters...Open for debate... (long)
Jun 15, 2012, 10:38 AM
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#1 - is irrelevant at this point, however I'm not sure we couldn't get a high profile guy. You say they weren't lining up for the job, problem is we just don't know who would take it because there wasn't any public knowledge of who, if anybody, was being pursued. When we got Bowden, he was one of the most sought after coaches at the time...and Clemson was more attractive than it was when Bowden took over.
#2 - is a personality/preference thing. Either you hate it or you like it. Not much can be done about that.
#3 - Something Dabo better get right...I never want to lose to the coots, but I'll take 2 championship appearances in 3 years.
I am not a Dabo hater, but he has got to deal with South Carolina and improve on the big emotional swings that have been typical of his football teams..i.e., getting stomped by N.C. State, GT, WV. He's doing a lot of things well...still waiting for the toughness.
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110%er [7022]
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Re: Serious question for Dabo Haters...Open for debate... (long)
Jun 15, 2012, 10:40 AM
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win the games you are supposed to win...that is why we got rid of tb no?
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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seems so simple...
Jun 15, 2012, 10:52 AM
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yet how many teams do that each year?
It's a little more than that.
Were we supposed to beat FSU this year? How about VT? Twice?
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All-American [590]
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Franc, I don't care what everyone else says...
Jun 15, 2012, 10:55 AM
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You sound pretty intelligent. 
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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only 337% of the time though***
Jun 15, 2012, 10:56 AM
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Orange Blooded [4504]
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110%er [7022]
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Re: Serious question for Dabo Haters...Open for debate... (long)
Jun 15, 2012, 10:45 AM
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and can we quit propping up scu to make ourselves feel better about losing to them?
there were WORSE teams than Clemson that gave them a better ball game last season
without lattimore...they were good/fair...far from great
tom o brien...sos...paul johnson
these teams beat us last year b/c they are better coached
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All-American [590]
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Guy, the topic you are arguing isn't just from last year...
Jun 15, 2012, 10:49 AM
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It's the overall win/loss record for Bowden against the coots compared to the win/loss record for Swinney against the coots.
Do you get that or can you not read?
FACT: USC is a MUCH better team now than they were during the Bowden era.
FACT: I hate losing to those idiots. My brother is a coot. I hate it.
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110%er [7022]
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Re: Guy, the topic you are arguing isn't just from last year...
Jun 15, 2012, 10:54 AM
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they are perhaps "marginally" better than they have been in the past...no excuse for the last 3 blowouts flies other than poor coaching/game prep
and by the way...i'm not your guy buddy
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All-American [590]
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^^^Ok. Agree to disagree. 11-2 isn't "marginally" better.
Jun 15, 2012, 10:58 AM
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And beating Alabama, two years ago isn't marginally better.
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110%er [7022]
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Re: ^^^Ok. Agree to disagree. 11-2 isn't "marginally" better.
Jun 15, 2012, 11:09 AM
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did you actually want others opinions like you politely asked for in your post?
or did you just want to pick a board fight?
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All-American [590]
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I said I was open for intelligent debate.
Jun 15, 2012, 11:18 AM
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But you're not being rational. I guess our points boil down to "marginally better."
I think the coots have gotten much better over the past 4 years.
You don't think that. (even though there is a lot of evidence to disagree with you)
Bottom line is we will agree to disagree.
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Orange Blooded [3422]
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Re: I said I was open for intelligent debate.
Jun 15, 2012, 9:11 PM
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They've become much better. They may have had the best D-Line in the nation last year. If they hadn't lost Lattimore then they probably would have only lost to Georgia and LSU.
Some people just can't look at it from a level-headed perspective. Carolina's a real good program right now.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Exactly. Been saying it for years ... Good talent with great
Jun 15, 2012, 5:05 PM
[ in reply to Re: Serious question for Dabo Haters...Open for debate... (long) ] |
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coaching more times than not will beat great talent with average to poor coaching. Talent is important, but Spurrier at Duke, Patterson at TCU, Boise State, Beamer at VT, and the inconsistency of FSU and Miami, among others, prove my point. With the exception of USC, Holtz won everywhere he went and even at USC put together the best back to back seasons they ever had until Spurrier. Look at Tanner in basketball. Good coaches win and win right away with the talent they inherited. They don't need 5 years to install their system and recruit their players. That's BS.
Clemson only won 15 games in 4 seasons with Red Parker, yet Pell in 2 years went 8-3 and 11-1. He then went to Florida and took a team that was 4-7 in '78, and after 0-10-1 his 1st year, they were 8-4 his 2nd year.
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Orange Blooded [2253]
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Re: Exactly. Been saying it for years ... Good talent with great
Jun 15, 2012, 5:31 PM
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Tanner coaches basketball too ??
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Rock Defender [54]
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I did type basketball didn't I? Wow. Brain fart of the month***
Jun 15, 2012, 8:45 PM
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All-TigerNet [14090]
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Zealot [868]
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I agree with your buddy on #2
Jun 15, 2012, 10:49 AM
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The interview with Dabo at camp was a perfect example. First he makes the statement that he is just a football coach and that he's only worried about who's on the schedule. He also says that all this conference expansion talk is a huge distraction. He then rambles on about it for ten minutes and acts like everybodys is stupid for talking about it. He also messed up by saying going to the Big 12 would be the worst thing Clemson could do. What if we do wind up making the switch? Then he will have stuck his foot in his mouth once again just like he did with the Todd Ellis comments and with the comments before the Orange Bowl.
The jumping around, getting all excited is fine in the locker room and on the practice field. On the side line and in post game interviews he needs to act like an adult that has been there before.
Just my opinion.
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All-American [590]
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We will agree to disagree. It's a game. It's a sport.
Jun 15, 2012, 10:51 AM
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He doesn't wear a suit to work in an office every day like I do. He gets to coach the most fun sport in the world...I don't get why folks think that means he has to act "professional" in front of the cameras.
He is energetic and clearly the players like that.
Agree to disagree...dismissed.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Because he is representing Clemson. And getting caught up in
Jun 15, 2012, 8:57 PM
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the excitement on the sidelines is poor discipline and coaching. The HC needs to have his wits and be focused. How many times have you seen Ford grabbing assistant coaches and players yanking them off the field for celebrating a big play. He knew that can cost you a huge penalty. The last thing you want after a big TD is to get a 15 yard penalty and give the other team great field position and risk losing momentum. Show me a great coach or a coach that consistently wins championships or at a high level that is also a cheerleader on the sideline. I've never seen one.
Kids in college are emotional. The HC needs to be a rational and calming influence.
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All-TigerNet [11435]
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yeah cause Clemson got alot of penalties after tds
Jun 15, 2012, 9:08 PM
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I can count them with one hand. Get lost hater
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All-TigerNet [14090]
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Mike Gundy does the same thing and OSU went 12-1 last season
Jun 15, 2012, 11:41 PM
[ in reply to Because he is representing Clemson. And getting caught up in ] |
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so your point is mute. Dabo ,Gundy, and Les Miles just represent a new style of coaching, and today's kids feed off of that. Same thing when Pete Carroll was at USC. That's why Dabo is able to recruit good. Now that Dabo, has got the money spent to have good coordinators, there is nothing but success in the future for Clemson.
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CU Guru [1071]
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So Lowcountry Raconteur is one of your closest friends...
Jun 15, 2012, 11:43 AM
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Sorry to hear that.. I talk to a lot of serious Clemson fans on a regular basis. Between old classmates, tailgating "neighbors", Clemson Club and IPTAY members, work colleagues, family and friends, I have met exactly one Dabo Hater. He currently goes by Lowcountry Raconteur on here but he has used a number of other names. He is the most bitter person you would ever want to know. If this close friend of yours is not Lowcountry Raconteur, maybe we should introduce them so they can go to therapy together...
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All-In [25721]
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Re: Serious question for Dabo Haters...Open for debate... (long)
Jun 15, 2012, 2:27 PM
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I look forward to opening the Tiger Baseball Chat Room to read about football.
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Rock Defender [54]
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OK, WELL ...........
Jun 15, 2012, 4:43 PM
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1. You're nuts if you think many very good coaches wouldn't have killed to be HC at Clemson. Where you folks get this nonsense is beyond me. We have won a NC, we were the 5th winningest program of the 80s, and we're in a chump conference making our path to a title easier. People on TNET love to tout how special Clemson is, then turn around and say no great coach would want to coach here. Talk about stupidity and contradicting ones self. If Clemson sucked and was a terrible place, Ford, TB, nor Dabo could recruit at such a high level here. Clemson is a great place with a lot to offer. Great coaches and players would love to be here.
2. Dabo's outbursts do make him and us look stupid. Anyone that thinks otherwise is fooling themselves. When other coaches do similar things TNET ridicules them with abandon. That is what folks do after Dabo pops off. Pull your head out the sand.
3. You're making excuses. Here is all that matters - Over the past 7 to 10 years CU and USC have had fairly equal recruiting, if not an edge to Clemson. So if the talent is at worst equal, how did we suddenly go from owning them, to them owning us? Simple - coaching. Also, Spurrier has gone to a more smash mouth tougher brand of ball. We play a finesse style. We have a bit better talent, but they are tougher and far better coached.
I don't hate Dabo as a person, but I hate him as our coach. He didn't deserve the job, he's grossly under qualified, he repeatedly makes mistakes a better coach wouldn't make, and he's far too emotional and up and down. He needs to be more of a professional when dealing with the media and on the sidelines. When the coach is overly emotional on the sidelines he makes poor decisions. I simply don't think he has what it takes to be a great coach and run a program that wins consistently a a high level.
And for what it's worth, since you appear to be fairly young, I was playing on the Hill in the 70s and a student from 84-88. I was there when we went from crap, to great, and back to crap. As a Clemson alum, my love and loyalty is to Clemson. Not people. People come and go. Anyone that looks at Dabo in an objective way sees he shouldn't be a head coach, esp not at a serious BCS football program. When you ask the Dabo lovers why they love Dabo, none of it is objective, none of it is rational or based on anything tangible. It's purely subjective and based on emotions. My mother loves Dabo. She thinks he such a cute and exciting young fella. That clearly says it all. When wives and mothers love the head coach, you have a salesman, a politician, running your program. Not a serious football coach.
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Zealot [868]
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"we were the 5th winningest program of the 80's"
Jun 15, 2012, 4:51 PM
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Lol. Yea I'm sure that's what coaches think about when deciding whether or not they want to coach somewhere is how good they were 30 years ago.
All you do is repeat yourself over and over with the same BS. All of your complaints against Dabo are trumped by one fact- he won the ACC for the first time in 20 years.
Im not crazy about some of Dabo's antics but that doesn't negate the job he's done. We were picked to have a losing season last year but won 10 games and a conference title with more freshman than anybody in the country.
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Oculus Spirit [94306]
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MVP [503]
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Re: Serious question for Dabo Haters...Open for debate... (long)
Jun 15, 2012, 5:13 PM
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What grade will you be in this fall?
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All-TigerNet [11435]
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kinda odd lowcountry cootonatour was nowhere
Jun 15, 2012, 9:17 PM
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To be found yesterday nor his handle clayton bigpee when we landed RN. He only comes around when negative news comes. Notice he was nowhere to be found at 8-0 but flooded the board after GT with his broken record crap. Fat, stupid and a negative Nancy is no way to go through life mam
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Orange Blooded [3422]
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Re: Serious question for Dabo Haters...Open for debate... (long)
Jun 15, 2012, 9:19 PM
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No problem with #1, obviously a problem with #3...
My problem with #2 isn't that he shows emotion. I like it when he's genuinely excited on the sidelines. I think it's great. My problem is that I think he grandstands for the cameras in interviews...
...but he can do whatever he wants if he keeps racking in these recruiting classes and organizing his coaching staff like this, he can do whatever he wants.
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110%er [7022]
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Re: Serious question for Dabo Haters...Open for debate... (long)
Jun 15, 2012, 10:09 PM
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his pressers are 2X longer than bowden's ever were
he certainly loves to hear himself ramble
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Walk-On [124]
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It comes down to one point...
Jun 15, 2012, 9:30 PM
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Are we getting better or worse with him as a head coach? Unquestionably, we are improving. Before your friend judges Dabo, meet him, then form a founded opinion. I'm sure he will come away with a much different one.
I don't know Dabo, but have met him a few times and you instantly understand that what he says is genuine and what he does is in the best interest of Clemson, not what's best for himself.
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Orange Blooded [4107]
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Re: Serious question for Dabo Haters...Open for debate... (long)
Jun 15, 2012, 11:48 PM
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Top Tier players are flocking to Clemson because they want to play for Dabo...not for some crabby SOB at a football mill in the Dust bowl. Coach Swinney is the GM, the grand architect.... he does not need to be the expert technician, thats why he has top tier "assistants"... I prefer the term "Vice Head Coaches" 
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