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All-In [26635]
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CU Medallion [68282]
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Re: Saban gets testy ...
Sep 12, 2013, 12:54 PM
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this ois the exact type stuff "their program" was built on. Remeber the previous probations and Mike Price. The NCAA rulebook was largely written to stop stuff Bear was pulling years ago. Guys getting track and golf scholes to play football, etc.
Typical Saban tactic. Righteous indignation to divert attention
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Legend [15549]
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Re: Saban gets testy ...
Sep 12, 2013, 1:42 PM
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All over it. He is caught, and he isn't as mad about the infractions as much as if it costs him his job. I doubt just 1 player's involvement, but we don't know what else may surface, and that could open a worm can on him.
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Heisman Winner [136192]
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Re: Saban gets testy ...
Sep 12, 2013, 3:19 PM
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Well, if he all of a sudden "jumps" ship, then something is up. If the NCAA will bring down Penn State, they'll bring down Alabama. I know P.State was a whole different issue and if they let Ala. go unpunished, the NCAA will lose creditability.
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Legend [15549]
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Re: Saban gets testy ...
Sep 12, 2013, 5:46 PM
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Their credibility already is questionable, but your point is taken. I there are other issues pinned to him, he may just look someplace else to avoid the trouble. This may get really interesting.
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Orange Blooded [1051]
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Re: Saban gets testy ...
Sep 12, 2013, 12:54 PM
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I would say winning 3 out of 4 nc and one at another school says he is a pretty good coach.
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Orange Blooded [1051]
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Re: Saban gets testy ...
Sep 12, 2013, 12:56 PM
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I would say winning 3 out of 4 nc and one at another school says he is a pretty good coach.
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CU Medallion [58639]
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Very few coaches win without better players,
Sep 12, 2013, 12:56 PM
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at least with any consistency, Saban included.
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Hall of Famer [21644]
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I have to question the sanity/intelligence of anyone who
Sep 12, 2013, 12:58 PM
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questions Saban's ability to successfully run a college football program. Saban doesn't rely on better players, he recruits and develops them, and then he consistently leads them to national championships. There is no such thing as a good coach if Saban isn't considered one. You don't have to like the guy to acknowledge he's the best of the best. Results prove it.
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Oculus Spirit [94280]
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I'm crazy but I'll keep Dabo cause he's the best of the best
Sep 12, 2013, 1:24 PM
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Consider his resources think it's a stretch to crown Saban as 'best of the best.'
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Orange Blooded [2519]
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Not a stretch at all. Many have not done half as well at Bam
Sep 12, 2013, 1:31 PM
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a. Saban is passing Bear Bryant about now.
Other schools have similar resources to Bama, but dont' have Saban's trophy case.
Plus, he was good at Mich St and LSU, too.
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Legend [15549]
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Re: Not a stretch at all. Many have not done half as well at Bam
Sep 12, 2013, 1:47 PM
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I believe that we, and ugay, Auburn, the real USC and others have proved that money put in the right places can result in huge success. AL has lots of trophies, but they also have had lots of probation and sanction time.
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CU Medallion [58639]
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At Michigan St, he finished 5th, 5th, 6th, 6th, and 2nd in
Sep 12, 2013, 2:25 PM
[ in reply to Not a stretch at all. Many have not done half as well at Bam ] |
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his conference over 5 years. Nary a conference championship. Not good at all. Sure, they improved significantly his last year, but why didn't he "develop" them into champions? The answer is obvious - he didn't have the players. 2nd place was the best he could do.
What happened once he got to the fertile recruiting grounds of the southeast and hooked up with some schools that had a rich football history, rabid fan bases, and almost unlimited $$$ resources? He became a coach with a trophy case, that "developed" raw players into champions!
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Legend [16174]
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As a Michigan fan, I can assure you he improved that team
Sep 12, 2013, 3:04 PM
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significantly! They were garbage when he got there, and he posted their most successful season since the 60's...At a time when Michigan, OSU and PSU were perennial Top 10 powers...Don't short-sell what he did there, he was working with chickenshat...Never been happier to see an opposing coach leave...
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CU Medallion [58639]
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The record is what it is. In 5 yrs, he only finished above
Sep 12, 2013, 3:33 PM
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5th place one year. That's not that great any way you slice it. Michigan State won the Big 10 in 87 and in 90, so to cite that as their most successful season since the 60's is very misleading.
I understand that Saban may have had to rebuild, and may have finally turned the corner at MSU by year 5, but that's sort of making my point - it took him 5 years, and still no championship! That doesn't mean he can't coach, but it shows he's human, and when he doesn't have great players and $$$ and tradition, he struggles just like a lot of other good coaches do. Conversely, give him the players and the resources, and he's a great coach.
Again, my whole point is that he, like almost everybody else, needs better players and resources in order to win big and win consistently.
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Heisman Winner [136192]
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Look how long it took Spurrier to win at USC. I don't
Sep 12, 2013, 3:40 PM
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really like either one, but both are good coaches. He probably did have to rebuild at M. St. but he eventually won and would have probably won if he stayed there. He and Dabo remind me of each other, they both surrounded theirself with other people who can coach.
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CU Medallion [58639]
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I agree completely, 100%.
Sep 12, 2013, 4:06 PM
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Spurrier found it was harder to win at USuCk than it was at Florida where he won there with 4 and 5-star talent. At USuCk, it took him a while to assemble the right staff, implement his system, and build up the recruiting. Once he started getting the players, the turn-around began.
Saban may have had it turned around at Michigan State, but he never would have won a national championship there, just like Spurlid never will in Cootlumbia.
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Heisman Winner [136192]
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Now...I agree with you 100%. UF has more talent and
Sep 12, 2013, 4:10 PM
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Spurrier was able to win there quick. I think he reached his pinnacle at USC last year. I can see Strong being their next coach in about 3 years. Spurrier has played or is playing out.
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Legend [16174]
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CU Medallion [58639]
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More wins (10 vs 9 and 8), but still 2nd place. Either way,
Sep 12, 2013, 4:55 PM
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it's not like they reached some hallowed ground under Saban. He struggled mightily for 4 years there before having one great year. It took him a while to get it going there, like it would have with a lot of good coaches.
Again, my only point is that while Saban is one of the best college football coaches of our era, his success is due in large part to the advantages (recruiting and resources) inherent to coaching at schools like LSU and Alabama.
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Legend [15549]
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Re: The record is what it is. In 5 yrs, he only finished above
Sep 12, 2013, 5:43 PM
[ in reply to The record is what it is. In 5 yrs, he only finished above ] |
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Also, even he has games that his team loses they should win. LSU 2 years ago at home, TAM last year, heck, he even lost to a pretty mediocre coot team several years ago. Seems that even the great Saban can "pull a Clemson". Imagine that.
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Hall of Famer [21644]
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Re: At Michigan St, he finished 5th, 5th, 6th, 6th, and 2nd in
Sep 12, 2013, 4:32 PM
[ in reply to At Michigan St, he finished 5th, 5th, 6th, 6th, and 2nd in ] |
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http://www.tigernet.com/forums/message.jspa?messageID=14313805
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Hall of Famer [21644]
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No other living person has accomplished what Saban has
Sep 12, 2013, 4:26 PM
[ in reply to I'm crazy but I'll keep Dabo cause he's the best of the best ] |
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in college football. That makes him the best of the best. Only emotional pride/spite would cause a person to think otherwise.
His resources are no better than 25 or so other programs.
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CU Medallion [58639]
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And Saban may have won at many of those other
Sep 12, 2013, 5:13 PM
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programs too.
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CU Medallion [58639]
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There is a reason he did not win a national championship
Sep 12, 2013, 1:39 PM
[ in reply to I have to question the sanity/intelligence of anyone who ] |
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at Michigan State.
There is no doubt that Saban is a very good coach, and there is no question that he is good at developing players, but there is also no doubt that he relies heavily on recruiting better players, or at least better players that fit his system.
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All-In [26968]
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That's like saying Clemson relies heavily on scoring
Sep 12, 2013, 1:46 PM
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Points and not allowing many points in order to win.
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CU Medallion [58639]
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Of course, but some people still don't get the obvious.
Sep 12, 2013, 2:06 PM
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Saban is a very good coach, but he's not a god, and he doesn't have magical powers, and a huge part of his success has been due to the schools at which he's had the good fortune to coach.
Some people act as if he could coach the Taylors Falcons to the Super Bowl, year-in and year-out, and it's simply not true.
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Rookie [12]
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Hall of Famer [21644]
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His record at Michigan State has nothing to do with this.
Sep 12, 2013, 4:25 PM
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He wasn't the best coach in college football when he was 25 years old either. It's called using your talents and learning and adjusting. Saban eventually found the near-perfect mix of coaching strategies and has used them as well as anyone in the history of the game. Right now, he's the best. By far. Only emotional arguments born in spite or jealousy would conclude the opposite.
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CU Medallion [58639]
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And my point has nothing to do with whether or not he
Sep 12, 2013, 5:08 PM
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is the best coach in college football, which again, is that he would not have won all of these championships or be regarded as the best coach in college football had he remained at Michigan State instead of benefitting from the superior recruiting environments at LSU and Alabama.
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Legend [16174]
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CU Medallion [64693]
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Coaches get angry about these types of questions....
Sep 12, 2013, 1:04 PM
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for one of two reasons;
1 - The coach runs a clean program and is insulted that someomne has the audacity to question the character and integrity of the program, or
2 - The program is dirty as sin and the coach knows it, and the coaches reaction is a weak attempt to deflect attention form the real issue at hand.
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CU Medallion [68282]
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Re: Coaches get angry about these types of questions....
Sep 12, 2013, 1:09 PM
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Sorry Bama's track record points to number 2 here. Saban can whine all he wants about it. Doesnt change the fact they have always cheated there
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: Coaches get angry about these types of questions....
Sep 12, 2013, 1:24 PM
[ in reply to Coaches get angry about these types of questions.... ] |
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If they run a clean program, they shouldn't get angry when someone accuses them so publicly about it, especially the media darling Alabama is.
Last year, no one would've accused Alabama of cheating in a press conference, but it has caught on and people know what is happening down there. Things are starting to come out, and the media is getting curious.
I would say Saban is cheating. For one thing, Alabama is one of the most penalized programs in NCAA history, in fact they just got off of 15 straight years of probation in 2012. Second, Saban directly oversaw the academic fraud that went on at his tenure at LSU (they HATE him now for screwing over the program).
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Oculus Spirit [94280]
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Or...
Sep 12, 2013, 1:33 PM
[ in reply to Coaches get angry about these types of questions.... ] |
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the coach has much preparation for his speech on how good the other team is and how impossible it will be to overcome such a fine quality team, then nobody asked the right question.
I'd have said 'screw you,' to them all. Nothing sucks like working on a speech then finding out nobody wants to hear it!
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All-TigerNet [14921]
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I am $hocked that player$ and coache$ from the $EC
Sep 12, 2013, 1:08 PM
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would $omething like thi$ to take place. For $hame.
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Heisman Winner [136192]
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When you're always on top, most people try to bring you down
Sep 12, 2013, 1:13 PM
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Saban has won at every college he has coached. He is one of the best, period. Not all good coaches cheat and I'm pretty sure there are SEC programs that are as clean as we hope Clemson is. One post earlier mentioned that he develops his players, that is so true with Saban. I believe he would win consitantly at Vandy., Duke (like Spurrier did) Army and Navy to name a few.
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All-TigerNet [13888]
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Spurrier gets testes
Sep 12, 2013, 1:11 PM
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Probably Wangus. Yuuuuuuck
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CU Guru [1900]
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I heard someone say onetime that Daniel Tosh (comedian)
Sep 12, 2013, 1:27 PM
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was in Columbia doing a show one time and said Spurrier was just like Saban, because they both sucked in the NFL so they came back to college where they could cheat
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Hall of Famer [24993]
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No. He just wants to avoid the testing... for all the PEDs.***
Nov 26, 2012, 7:51 PM
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Orange Blooded [2092]
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PAYROLL TIDE!
Sep 12, 2013, 2:02 PM
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This program is so coddled nothing will come of it. But you have to love the Barners and the Bummers keeping one another in check.
The SEC is a disgrace.
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Hall of Famer [24993]
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Lightfoot, Franklin, and White handle their "coddling".***
Sep 12, 2013, 2:08 PM
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CU Guru [1429]
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Re: Saban gets testy ...
Sep 12, 2013, 4:29 PM
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I would be shocked if there were any major program that was completely clean. Some are just dirtier than others.
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