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Replies: 29
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All-In [32656]
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The sickness of the cult knows no boundaries - the scok
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Mar 19, 2024, 5:01 PM
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Djohnstone whatever just said in an earlier thread that the folks who want and expect better from our "leadership" in men's varsity basketball is something like 4.9% . . . .
With that level of delusion - saying that 4.9% of the people who know & care about Clemson Basketball want to make a change from the VERY average performance of a guy milking us for money - and 95% are completely OK with doing what we have been doing for the last 14 years . . . . . beyond comprehension.
I stated the number at 94% . . . . I was probably wrong - it is probably closer to 98% . . . .
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Orange Blooded [2849]
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The Lunatic Fringe
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Mar 19, 2024, 5:29 PM
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is small and small minded but extremely loud
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Legend [16912]
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Re: The Lunatic Fringe
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Mar 19, 2024, 5:43 PM
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And you you joined up. We all saw you on Twitter. What a fan.
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All-American [595]
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Re: The Lunatic Fringe
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Mar 19, 2024, 6:01 PM
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It is OK to want a new coach. I'm all for it as long as the new coach is a big step up, not just a parallel move or the best we could find that didn't do better than we did.
What seems really weird is calling yourself a fan and wanting the team to lose just so you can get rid of the coach. I can't fathom that even if we were 11-21. That doesn't sound like an invested fan, but a bandwagoner whose pride is insulted every time we lose. Is this because the Midlands Birds have a better record and higher seed than us and you're taking it on the chin from coot fans at work or home?
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Legend [16912]
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Re: The Lunatic Fringe
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Mar 19, 2024, 6:24 PM
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Is that directed at me? I don’t want them to lose and most certainly haven’t stated such. I’m hoping the team does well but firmly believe that no matter what happens it’s probably time for him to move on. His best recruit is leaving. He’ll have to replace either the most or second most minutes and production that he has ever had to replace. This should be his swan song.
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All-In [32656]
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It's rhetoric from the cult - there is no point we arguing with them -
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Mar 19, 2024, 6:26 PM
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only 4.9% of us want Brad fired. Less than 5%.
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Legend [16912]
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Re: It's rhetoric from the cult - there is no point we arguing with them -
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Mar 19, 2024, 6:31 PM
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Even I don’t want him “fired”. I want him to acknowledge that he’s done what he can here and that Clemson provided everything he asked for in the process and then step down. He’s been given enough. He shouldn’t keep grinding until they’re forced to fire him.
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110%er [7534]
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Re: It's rhetoric from the cult - there is no point we arguing with them -
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Mar 19, 2024, 9:07 PM
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He will miss out on $6mil if he dips out. If we fire him, then he will get his buyout. I assume that is the correct number as I have seen it posted a few times
I don't hate Brad and I don't think most fans do but most fans realize he has hit his pinnacle at Clemson and 14yrs is enough. A new coach could get the fans and students excited and start packing LJ again. Hopefully a new coach woukd add an exciting style of ball and increase our post season opportunities.
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Legend [16912]
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110%er [7534]
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Re: It's rhetoric from the cult - there is no point we arguing with them -
Mar 19, 2024, 9:59 PM
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So it looks like we save almost $1mil if he is fired before April 30th at $85k per month of remaing contract through April 2026. Goes up to $125k/mo after May 1st which would add another $1mil if done then. Based on this, looks like we would know pretty shortly after we exit the NCAAT what Neff's plan is.
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All-American [595]
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Re: The Lunatic Fringe
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Mar 19, 2024, 6:57 PM
[ in reply to Re: The Lunatic Fringe ] |
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Not directed at anyone specifically. This forum is dripping wet with people hoping we lose so he gets fired. Bizarre to claim being a fan. Maybe fan has a new meaning I missed.
I feel like I've said this 50 times. 21-11 and a NCAAT seed in basketball is overachieving for lil ole Clemson. I hope as much as anybody that changes, but it is exactly where we are and have always been.
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Legend [16912]
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Re: The Lunatic Fringe
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Mar 19, 2024, 8:25 PM
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More than one thing can be true. A 20+ win season and NCAA tourney can be “overachieving” based on our history but not good enough when we’ve invested 14 years into a single coach. Despite what you might believe reading the propaganda on this board, Brad is well compensated and has been given massive upgrades compared to his predecessors. His rate of making the tourney is lower than the overall rate of Clemson making the tourney in the 64 team era. 28% to 36%. That’s counting this season. He has two years left on his contract. If this season results in a massive extension and raise, which has happened with the previous three tourney bids the response is going to be very ugly. There is nothing to suggest that Brad is suddenly learned how to build a program.
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All-Conference [441]
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Re: The Lunatic Fringe
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Mar 19, 2024, 8:53 PM
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Im bored...so im gonna play devils advocate. Whats to say Clemson can hire a coach better than the one we got? That another hire will do even worse and we'll end up regressing back to our historical average? There's a reason why if you win 9 games as Dukes football coach, you get a raise. There's also a reason why if you win 20 games as Clemson's basketball coach you keep your job. Winning at these places isnt easy.
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Legend [16912]
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Re: The Lunatic Fringe
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Mar 19, 2024, 9:26 PM
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Gauged by tourney appearances we’re below our average already. And asking what ifs about the next coach is a red herring rhetorical diversion. It is not relevant. Is Brad Brownell doing the job the third highest paid coach in the conference with $60 million in investments already completed and another $40 million committed he should. The fact is that by any serious analysis Brad is less than Purnell or Barnes. It’s a little murkier with Ellis but if you compare for strength of schedule Ellis deserves the lean. He also had a regular season championship. The only coach that Brownell is better than is Shyatt - and he’s been given triple the time to build his program. Dragging in anything from the pre-64 team era is completely irrelevant. There are no systemic issues lingering from the 50s, 60, or 70s holding this program down. Invoking stats that reflect for eras is misleading at best.
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All-Conference [441]
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Re: The Lunatic Fringe
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Mar 19, 2024, 9:36 PM
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Fair assessment. I would also agree that Purnell and Barnes are better coaches. I would also state that Purnell and Barnes both voluntarily left Clemson for new schools (although Purnells next stop didnt go well). As for systemic issues you are both correct and wrong. Correct in stating the Brownell has recieved support on a level no other Clemson MBB coach has recieved. This is undeniable. Wrong by stating there are no systemic issues. Clemson is a football school, for both better or worse. Clemson fans only care about basketball once football has concluded, and only maintain this attention if fhe program is winning. This is much like UNC in regards to football. Its not easy to produce first tier results while being relegated to second tier status.
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Legend [16912]
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Re: The Lunatic Fringe
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Mar 19, 2024, 9:45 PM
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That’s wasn’t the kind of systemic issues I meant. But I also disagree with the one you brought up. Sports are aspirational. Attendance and interest wane when programs struggle - everywhere. The Barnes era showed that there was an intense pent up demand for successful basketball. We never won more than 9 conference games under Barnes and home games were a circus. Because we played tough and for once we had a coach that took no crap from the blue bloods. Purnell rebuilt that hope. Brownell has been the long, slow death of that enthusiasm.
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All-Conference [441]
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Re: The Lunatic Fringe
Mar 19, 2024, 10:06 PM
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I was a student when we were undefeated against Wake and hosted gameday. I remember the enthusiasm well. I also remember Purnell hitting a plateau and leaving. If we replace Brownell will I be sad? No. Will my expectations for Clemson basketball change? No. If we make the tourney its an above average year. Make the tourney multiple times in a row and we'll just be replacing the coach with a new hire. Is that a cop out? Yeah, but that doesnt make it not true. Clemson is either a stepping stone job from a small mid major. You either perform your way to a better job (Barnes) or perform on par to keep it (Brownell). Thats who we are as a program.
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Legend [16912]
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Re: The Lunatic Fringe
Mar 20, 2024, 12:38 AM
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But what are you basing the truth on? Clemson is in a position of prominence it has never enjoyed when hiring a basketball coach. And your resignation that the fans aren’t there is based on really selective observations and opinions. Attendance at Clemson basketball is down nearly 40% since Brad took over. That’s more than double the overall decline in NCAA basketball over the same period. And he didn’t take over from a peak attendance period. There are underserved fans out there - lots of them. Fans, just like they will anywhere, will flock to a winning program. This notion that we’re inherently one thing or another is purely a myth.
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Legend [16136]
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Wait, are you saying the program is in a better spot now than when OP left?***
Mar 20, 2024, 12:51 AM
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Legend [16912]
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Re: Wait, are you saying the program is in a better spot now than when OP left?***
Mar 20, 2024, 1:23 AM
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Once again, I would love to know what kind of standardized test scores you got for reading. It’s is unfathomable, even as humor, that would be your take.
Message was edited by: viztiz®
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Legend [16136]
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Re: Wait, are you saying the program is in a better spot now than when OP left?***
Mar 20, 2024, 3:49 AM
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Clemson is in a position of prominence it has never enjoyed when hiring a basketball coach.
Your own words
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All-In [32656]
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CLEMSON - as an entire entity - as a desirable University, community, world-wide
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Mar 20, 2024, 10:10 AM
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recognition of The Paw and what we are as a school . . . .
Geeeez dude . . . . . what a reach.
Basic reading comprehension without BROWNstained glasses . . . .
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110%er [6858]
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Thats such a dumb, lazy, tired argument.
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Mar 19, 2024, 9:38 PM
[ in reply to Re: The Lunatic Fringe ] |
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You literally have nothing to lose by going in another direction here. Not trying at all is the only wrong decision you can make. What are people so scared we are going to lose out on by canning this overpaid potato we have? Making the tournament once every half decade? Getting drilled in the acct every single year? Getting humiliated in the first round of the freaking nit? I just dont understand some of you. At. All.
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All-Conference [441]
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Re: Thats such a dumb, lazy, tired argument.
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Mar 19, 2024, 9:49 PM
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Im not arguing to keep him. Mediocrity should not be standard, and Brads record is very mediocre. If we go in another direction, I would completely understand. However, like it or not we are a VERY mediocre basketball program at best. I think the UNC comparison is comprable. Looking at our program history Brownell has 25% of our sweet 16 appearances, 20% of our round of 32 appearances, and 3 out 14 of our total tourney appearances not including the Purnell holdover team. Historically speaking thats pretty good, not to mention our winningest coach of all time and our only 2 wins at UNC. Can we do better? Yeah? Maybe? I dunno. The guy does deserve some credit though.
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CU Guru [1019]
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Re: Thats such a dumb, lazy, tired argument.
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Mar 19, 2024, 10:10 PM
[ in reply to Thats such a dumb, lazy, tired argument. ] |
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Why not at least support THIS team until season ends, maybe Friday, hopefully a few weeks later? I was extremely disappointed in our ACC tournament effort, but let’s hope for a run in NCAA!
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Legend [16262]
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I agree with you.
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Mar 19, 2024, 5:48 PM
[ in reply to The Lunatic Fringe ] |
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You and your fellow nuts and scoks affirm that on here daily.
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All-Conference [441]
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Re: The sickness of the cult knows no boundaries - the scok
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Mar 19, 2024, 8:48 PM
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To be fair, if im not mistaken, this will be Clemson 14th appearance in the NCAA tournament. Yes...14 total appearances. Not saying Brownell should or shouldn't remain the coach, but historically speaking he is above average per Clemson's standard.
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Legend [16912]
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He is literally not above average at making the tourney.
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Mar 19, 2024, 9:39 PM
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Brad has made the tourney 4 times in 14 seasons - 28.5%
The other coaches of the 64 team era have made the tourney 9 times in 26 years - 34.6%
Even worse, the coaches not named Shyatt made the tourney 9 times in 21 years - 42.8%
Do we really need to invoke Shyatt to help justify Brownell performance. He performs well below a standard we know can achieve.
Comparing Brad to the 32 team or conference winners only era incompletely irrelevant
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All-In [31315]
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Re: He is literally not above average at making the tourney.
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Mar 20, 2024, 5:48 AM
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For myself I believe the ceiling has been hit with BB but reluctantly the potential ceiling as been hit for basketball in general.
The lack of tournament wins is a huge red flag. As fans we spend all season worried about the seedings in the ACC and NCAA tournaments when in reality it makes no difference if you cannot win any games.
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CU Guru [1300]
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Id just like to express appreciation for you using this title
Mar 19, 2024, 9:47 PM
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and keeping the thread Clemson related and not referring to politics in some way. Bravo.
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