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Orange Blooded [3558]
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Grisham/Jeff Scott
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Apr 16, 2023, 12:03 PM
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Hey man look, with how things are looking, the WR group is the only position lacking. In my eyes, I saw #### good play from everybody yesterday. Maybe the DBs were really good, but also maybe the receivers just aren’t cutting it.
It seriously could take another year of rebuilding to get back to elite shape. Here’s where Grisham is of concern. IF he in fact loses all of our recruiting prospects like Matthews, Taylor, and Coleman, I’d immediately start looking elsewhere.
Jeff Scott really needs to be in the WR Coaching spot. It’s actually a sin that he’s not right now, but I understand he’s taking some time for himself. With all the changes that have been made to fix this thing, they forgot to rid one major piece of the problem. One that involves coaching the fundamentals of receivers, and recruiting well enough to compete for championships.
One of my predictions is that Scott will be in that role by 2024 rolls around. I think we’ll be very good this year, but in the end it will be our receiving that just can’t create enough explosiveness.
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Oculus Spirit [90820]
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I concur on both observations..
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Apr 16, 2023, 12:08 PM
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about Grisham & Scott..but think this batch of WRers are just not the normal cream of the crop type we've had in recent past, imho.
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Athletic Dir [890]
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I think our wr with look better once we have our starters back
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Apr 16, 2023, 12:16 PM
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We are really thin at wr now. Then split them makes the problem worse. I think playcalling this year will make our wr room look alot better.
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Orange Blooded [3558]
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Re: I think our wr with look better once we have our starters back
Apr 16, 2023, 12:22 PM
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Yeah I think they will too. But almost anything will be a step up or look better after what we’ve seen last 2 years and now the spring game.
I said I think we’ll be very good, but not able to create enough firepower to get back to winning a NC. That could take a couple years, BUT it must involve high level recruiting at WR. We lose out on top WR recruits, we have zero (ZERO) shot of getting back.
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110%er [5289]
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Re: I think our wr with look better once we have our starters back
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Apr 16, 2023, 12:35 PM
[ in reply to I think our wr with look better once we have our starters back ] |
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I disagree. I don’t see much help coming. I’m surprised how far this group has fallen considering how elite it has been for years. I know some of it is injuries but a huge part of it has been either recruiting busts or a lack of development. Or both…
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Orange Blooded [3558]
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Re: I think our wr with look better once we have our starters back
Apr 16, 2023, 1:06 PM
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I really just think the combination of DJ and Streeter coaching DJ was the fault of Justyn Ross’ decline (as well as his injuries). Ngata would’ve panned out better somewhere else.
The main issue between DJ and receivers was just plain miscommunication. Never on the same page. Never. That was DJ if you ask me. The reason I think it’s solely DJ is the Wake Forest game and ND in 2020. These 2 games, for some reason DJ decided to do the things we coached him. And guess what? The receivers did well. Because the QB was on time and was throwing well.
People like Walt Depfoola need to stop putting the BLAME on receivers. They are our worst position group now, but that is thanks to recruiting and lack of development because of an awful QB/OC. Absolutely guarantee you if or Ngata or even Collins went to Ohio State or somewhere with great QB, they would be drafted in the top 3 rounds.
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Rock Defender [64]
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Insane
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Apr 16, 2023, 2:24 PM
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You all insane…and I wish you knew as much football as you think you know. To put the blame of not making the playoffs and everything else on a coach that held the OC position for 12 months and 1 player out a hundred that are on the team is crazy. 1 player and 1 coach can’t be your catch all for everything you think should different for Clemson football. There is not one person in that building that has that much power…and if there was it would be Dado and he could have “fixed” everything by now.
Let’s keep in mind the coach that you have continue to pass the blame to (even 3 months after he is gone) was a Broyles finalist 2 years ago and Quarterback coach of the year. This same person recruited and signed more 4 and 5 star QB’s than this program has ever seen prior to him being here. He also had the only #1 draft pick Clemson has ever had and the only clemson coach to coach 2 Heisman candidates while coaching here.
Also keep in mind, Tony Elliot and Streeter’s offense was more of the same…because when they were hired they were told to run the “Clemson Offense.” Not once were they asked what the Elliott offense or Streeter offense look like.
And if you think they were never told what to do on the headsets…whether they agreed or not….you are wrong about that too.
Most of y’all have no clue how it all actually goes down. Streeter and Elliott worked closely in developing 2 National Championship winning game plans…that I’m pretty sure each of you all are thankful for. No other coaching staff in the history of clemson football can say that. Neither of them forgot to coach after the 2nd Natty… and I’m pretty sure none of the new coaches hired since then can say they have won 2 natty’s and made it the playoffs multiple times. So before you let 1 or 2 people be you scapegoat for all things negative…think about what these people brought to the program. Life goes on…they have moved on and so should you.
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Orange Blooded [3558]
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Re: Insane
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Apr 16, 2023, 2:37 PM
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Instead of passing blame to Streeter and DJ for being undeniably the biggest problems of our offense, you give credit to him for Trevor Lawrence’s greatness.
You do realize Trevor was the best QB prospect since Andrew Luck?
This is like giving credit to Gene Chizik for Cam Newton carrying Auburn to a National Championship. Many would say that Trevor may have underperformed slightly more and more as his career at Clemson progressed. And I’d have to say, between the time of his 2018 season and the Ohio State game in 2020, he performed less and less as well against the best competition. From beating Alabama 44-16, he then went on to have a lackluster performance against LSU the next year. A game I think we should’ve stayed in a lot more.
Again, you can’t give credit to Streeter for TL’s greatness. Although you can evaluate Streeter when he was in his most important role, as well as DJ. They weren’t good enough to get it done. Don’t make excuses for them.
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Rock Defender [64]
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Re: Insane
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Apr 16, 2023, 2:46 PM
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Never gave him credit for trevor’s greatness….simply listed many great things that happened for the program while he was here. Getting Trevor to Clemson…was just one of many awesome things that has happened for Clemson football in the last 8 years. And He must have regressed so much that he was #1 draft pick. Trevor could have transferred at any time if he felt he was regressing…
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Orange Blooded [3558]
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Re: Insane
Apr 16, 2023, 2:55 PM
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Man just completely disregard Trevor from Streeter.
You think Trevor comes to Clemson if Streeter is HC? Streeter did not get Trevor by himself. Most of the work was probably by Dabo.
And as I said, coming out of HS Trevor was a projected #1 pick. After beating Bama 44-16 pretty much sealed his draft pick barring any injuries. That one performance was all the scouts needed to know he could do that. Trevor was never going to transfer from anywhere, have you not learned the type of commitment he has to what he loves?
Message was edited by: ROYBus10®
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Rock Defender [64]
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Re: Insane
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Apr 16, 2023, 2:57 PM
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You missed the point and and are super focused on Trevor…I’m not going to argue.
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Orange Blooded [3558]
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Re: Insane
Apr 16, 2023, 4:18 PM
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You’re the one who brought him up. TNET is the place to argue by the way. It’s better for me to correct you on here before actually arguing for Streeter in person. That’s just blasphemy.
All jokes, but really Streeter is just a Clemson man. That’s his best quality. I’m sure it worked for recruiting to some extent, but not OC.
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All-In [44054]
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So Dabo gets most of the credit for getting Trevor, but none of the blame for
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Apr 16, 2023, 6:33 PM
[ in reply to Re: Insane ] |
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for recruiting or on field failures the last few years?
That’s how it seems for some of you.
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Orange Blooded [3558]
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Re: So Dabo gets most of the credit for getting Trevor, but none of the blame for
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Apr 14, 2024, 8:22 PM
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First of all, yes of course it’s implied that it’s Dabo’s fault for anything that happens. I’m just focusing on what was done wrong at the faults of the level below Dabo.
Let me do this again. Trevor Lawrence is a top-5 QB prospect of all-time.That’s coming out of HS, and coming out of college. It’s crazy to say, but it really is true. Trevor drew a connection through the faith and loyalty that Clemson has. And the entire program helped. It was all in with everything. That all-in recruiting approach to someone is created and led by Dabo. So yes I give the head man the most credit for the program’s greatest recruit it’s ever gotten. You also should be aware of the relationships Dabo creates with his QB. That’s why it was also evident it was mostly Dabo.
“Fault” is a harsh word to throw towards Dabo for the loyalty he shows to his guys. But it is fault because he took that chance. With DJ, Streeter, and I believe it’s similar with Grisham.
But as far as the understaff level goes, yes the blame is put on Grisham. Whether it’s recruiting or developing players, the performance is substantially worse than before he was put in charge of WR Coach (In 2020).
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CU Guru [1487]
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CU Guru [1487]
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You're talking out your isazz.***
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Apr 16, 2023, 7:24 PM
[ in reply to Re: Insane ] |
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All-TigerNet [13038]
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Orange Blooded [3558]
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Re: Better but still likely pretty mediocre
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Apr 16, 2023, 7:38 PM
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That is what I meant, good at best. Not very good nor elite. Good.
But, Max Dugan at least took his team under Riley to the embarrassment of a NC game. If Clemson can find that one single difference maker like Quentin Johnston was along with an elite RB and some other okay playmakers, we’ve got a chance. Because our defense is looking like it has elite potential.
That one guy in my opinion is likeliest Collins, Williams, or Randall.
Collins has some real NFL traits and has shown flashes of being the alpha before.
Williams could be a Jalin Hyatt type, he’s got more speed than given credit for. Ran a 4.36s 40 yd dash. Likely the most explosive.
Randall is an AJ Brown type of receiver. If you’re familiar with Brown for the Eagles, you understand. Randall is actually a bit taller though. The key being Randall’s weight at 230 lbs. Once he gets going downfield, it’s hard to battle him for balls in the air, and tackling him as well. That’s just his body size. Haven’t seen really anything from Randall yet.
So the recruiting is there, we’re just not as deep and filled with talent. We have some good, but there’s too much of a drop off between 1st string guys and 2nd string guys.
Sorry coach, but if you’re using Will and Drew in the first half, there’s something wrong.
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110%er [5014]
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We were down to just 2 or 3 starting WRs for the Spring game
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Apr 16, 2023, 12:20 PM
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Hard to gauge the WR play when 75% of them are out. So I’m not too worried at this point, except for the injuries. That is most concerning.
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Orange Blooded [3466]
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Re: We were down to just 2 or 3 starting WRs for the Spring game
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Apr 16, 2023, 12:24 PM
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Jeff Scott CAN recruit great wide receivers, as proven in the past.
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Athletic Dir [890]
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I wonder how much was jeff scott and how much was Dabo***
Apr 16, 2023, 12:42 PM
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110%er [6397]
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Re: Grisham/Jeff Scott
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Apr 16, 2023, 12:41 PM
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100% agree
This has to be Grisham’s make or break season. Recruiting and development have declined significantly under him. If we miss on our top targets and have another underwhelming season, Jeff Scott has to replace him.
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All-In [26035]
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Re: Grisham/Jeff Scott
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Apr 16, 2023, 12:53 PM
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I agree but we are assuming Jeff wants that job. Hope he does.
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CU Guru [1487]
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Let's clear this up right here and now.
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Apr 16, 2023, 7:26 PM
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Jeff Scott will never be WR coach at Clemson again. Could see a position involving recruiting and player development, but not a WR coach.
Moving on now.
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Orange Blooded [3558]
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Re: Grisham/Jeff Scott
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Apr 16, 2023, 1:10 PM
[ in reply to Re: Grisham/Jeff Scott ] |
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Only reason I wouldn’t replace him now is because of his connections with the recruits that we’re going for. New coach would almost surely chase those guys away. But in the long run it’s the best move.
I just hate that reality. Knowing we’re likely in for much more frustrating drops and a bunch of 5’11 walk ons running in an offense meant for 5* receivers. God I feel like an Auburn fan.
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110%er [6397]
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Re: Grisham/Jeff Scott
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Apr 16, 2023, 1:55 PM
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It is important to keep in mind that we had 7 scholarship WRs out yesterday that will be available this summer. We know Spector is bad, we learned that Noble isn’t ready, but we know that we have 2 guys in Antonio and Cole. We know Beaux can play and we know the coaches love Adam Randall. Both of those guys give us 4 quality options for the season.
I’m pretty sure that Stellato and Will Taylor are probably about as good as Spector. The question then becomes, what are we getting with Ronan Hanafin, Tyler Brown, and Misun Kelley? Noble didn’t look like he’ll be an impact player this year. But can any of the other 3 freshmen? If not, then we’re in serious trouble.
We can’t risk going into next season with only 4 quality WRs, especially with our recent luck with injuries.
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Orange Blooded [3558]
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Re: Grisham/Jeff Scott
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Apr 16, 2023, 2:09 PM
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I think Grisham has just plain missed on all of the main recruits that fit the Clemson WR mold. The mold of being EITHER tall and physical (Hopkins, Williams), or being strong, compact and quick (Watkins, McCloud, Rogers). Obviously the taller guys like Higgins have tagged us by many as WRU, but guys like McCloud are having very underrated NFL careers. Then of course you’ve got Hunter Renfrow.
I don’t mean to show complete disbelief in our guys, but it seems like they’re mostly just second options to the top receivers in their class that went elsewhere. Collins just seems to be ridden by his injuries and his speed won’t be the same.
Of course it could have just been the way they were coached, or the way they were strengthened and conditioned.
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110%er [5101]
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Re: Grisham/Jeff Scott
Apr 16, 2023, 2:34 PM
[ in reply to Re: Grisham/Jeff Scott ] |
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Well said Leon. Let's hope the guys coming in the summer can contribute. This would be a great time to look at the portal. I'm guessing we will lose a few players that will free up a few scholarships.
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Legend [19697]
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Why would Scott return to just being WR coach?
Apr 16, 2023, 2:09 PM
[ in reply to Re: Grisham/Jeff Scott ] |
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He's earning millions through a buyout. Was co-offensive coordinator and was a head coach.
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Orange Blooded [3558]
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Re: Why would Scott return to just being WR coach?
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Apr 16, 2023, 2:15 PM
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Because he loves Clemson and he does not fit any other program. He does his best work under Dabo Swinney and for the tigers. That’s why.
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All-In [44054]
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LOL.***
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Apr 16, 2023, 2:47 PM
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Orange Blooded [4461]
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Re: Grisham/Jeff Scott
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Apr 16, 2023, 1:41 PM
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Scott recruited perhaps our best receivers in tiger history. Need him back. It’s obvious our receivers are not of the level when we won both Nattys. Praying Collins Randall and Stellato are going to make a difference. Very few times did the QB have an open receiver in the spring game. Our receivers are making our QB look bad.
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Orange Blooded [3558]
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Re: Grisham/Jeff Scott
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Apr 16, 2023, 1:48 PM
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No, DJ was such a bust he actually stalled the development of each receiver he played with.
I’ve said it before, put Collins, Ngata, or whoever else with CJ Stroud or top QB, they’re going to be incredibly better. It’s the QB. There were more missed throws and sacks taken than there were drops and missed routes.
Need to start getting guys like Deon Cain and Ray Ray again. Weren’t the most elite ever at Clemson, but were greatly coached to use their instincts and speed. Something that none of our current guys have except for 1 or 2.
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Orange Blooded [3600]
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Re: Grisham/Jeff Scott
Apr 16, 2023, 1:53 PM
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This, exactly this.
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110%er [8538]
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Re: Grisham/Jeff Scott
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Apr 16, 2023, 2:12 PM
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What do you base that lunacy on? We were missing at least 5 receivers yesterday that will be in the 1st 2 groups this fall.
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All-TigerNet [13038]
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Are any of them better that average?
Apr 16, 2023, 6:53 PM
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Likely not. They will be an upgrade over the walkons we played yesterday, but not at the level we need to compete for a playoff spot.
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All-In [44054]
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But Grisham had so much coaching experience when Dabo hired him.
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Apr 16, 2023, 2:38 PM
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I’m shocked our WR group hasn’t done better than they have.
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Orange Blooded [3558]
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Re: But Grisham had so much coaching experience when Dabo hired him.
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Apr 16, 2023, 2:43 PM
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He did, he followed a very similar path that Dabo took before becoming HC. I don’t imagine his coaching is the issue here, but rather something with his recruiting approach and his connection with his WR prospects.
You know, like your guy Brad.
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All-In [44054]
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Someone’s coaching is the issue, because our WRs have been horrible.
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Apr 16, 2023, 2:49 PM
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Blaming it solely on recruiting is lame. We have recruited plenty of talent, they just haven’t been developed well.
The same can be said for multiple position groups lately.
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Oculus Spirit [93677]
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Dabo taught Scott everything he knows.
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Apr 16, 2023, 5:01 PM
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Dabo was a WR at Bama, member? He spoke often of keeping a notebook on what he was taught and what he caught from coaches' conversations about other positions on the field.
I respect Jeff, I would love to have him back but the man wants to captain his own ship. You can't expect a NC winning OC like Jeff to step down to an assistant's position. I'm sure he knows he's welcome to return to our team but he and Dabo know that he will continue looking for a head coaching job or OC somewhere.
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Orange Blooded [3558]
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Re: Dabo taught Scott everything he knows.
Apr 16, 2023, 5:38 PM
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You’d be right if he had success as a HC. He went 4-26 at USF. I don’t think he’s getting another HC opportunity before he needs to get back on his feet.
But it would be odd to come back to the same school and do a lower positioned job working up to Riley. But it wouldn’t be odd in the fact that he could move his family back to Clemson and settle down. I think he loves this place the most, just from what I’ve heard over the years.
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Orange Blooded [3569]
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Re: Grisham/Jeff Scott
Apr 16, 2023, 6:46 PM
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I like the tape on Brown, Hanafin, and Johnson.
I can see all 3 cracking the 2 deep early in the year and being solid or better contributors.
Wr won't be as bad off if everyone gets healthy, but it is a very thin group depth wise.
Collins, Williams, Turner as the first tier and those 3 freshmen rotating in as the 2nd string.
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CU Guru [1487]
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And here we go again.
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Apr 16, 2023, 7:23 PM
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Question: Who was the Wide Receiver coach for the most productive Clemson passing offense in program history?
A. Jeff Scott
B. Dabo Swinney
C. Tyler Grisham
D. Ken Hatfield
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Orange Blooded [3558]
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Re: And here we go again.
Apr 16, 2023, 8:12 PM
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Who was the WR coach for the 2nd worst productive passing offense at Clemson the immediate year after he did for the most productive?
What WR coach had Trevor Lawrence as a junior in his first year as the WR coach? Then then next year with a different QB had one of the worst passing offenses in Clemson history?
Your guy
Message was edited by: ROYBus10®
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