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Orange Blooded [2466]
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Football Scholarship breakdowns Clemson Vs. Other schools
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Jan 20, 2024, 12:20 PM
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This could be common knowledge but as I'm seeing different transfers landing at schools like OSU, FSU, etc. I started thinking about scholarship breakdowns.
How is it that Clemson always seems to be tight on schollies even when not taking transfers. Are we not losing as many players, having less players go pro, recruiting more high school players, etc. Or some combination of it all. Are other places revoking scholarships from current players to make room for big name transfers? Are SEC and Big 10 schools giving the middle finger to the NCAA and just running with more than 85 scholarships? I'm just curious as to how it is all working out.
Personally I think Dabo is going about this all in a very interesting and different way. It seems to be hurting us a bit in the short term but I want to see how it all plays out in the next five years. It seems as with a bit more stability in roster (even though Clemson is being much more selective with the transfer portal) we could be positioned to show some strength in the coming years.
There is just so much change happening right now with NIL, Covid year eligibility, and conference realignment to get a good grip on it all.
I know a lot of folks are down on Dabo a bit with his presumed reluctance to use the transfer portal like a lot of the other big schools but I see a possibility that it could really pay off in the long term. We are still collecting a ton of talent through high school recruiting and if we can keep that talent for 3 to 4 years as opposed to constant turnover it could lead to a lot of success on the field.
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110%er [8591]
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One big clarification
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Jan 20, 2024, 12:38 PM
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Most Clemson fans aren’t “down on Dabo” because of his OBVIOUS reluctance to use the portal. It’s 100% possible to wish that your coach would do this one thing differently without wishing you had a different coach. Many many posters on Tnet can’t grasp that concept.
Dabo is the best thing that has happened to Clemson football in my lifetime and I hope he’s our coach until he retires, but I would like to see us be more active in the portal
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Orange Blooded [2466]
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Agreed
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Jan 20, 2024, 12:43 PM
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Another question though. Haven't we been more active than the past 2 years?
Seems we went after and offered more guys but just haven't been successful. It could be that the major change needed is to go after a staffer that is very good at playing the transfer portal game. Obviously there is a short window to judge this on, but we are starting to see certain people that are good at the game. Does Clemson have a person solely locked in on transfer portal? Is it a divided job? Is it a part of the recruiting coordinator ls job? Should it be separate?
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110%er [8591]
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Danny Pearman is responsible for the portal so
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Jan 20, 2024, 12:54 PM
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As for your question about how other teams always have room to pull portal players it’s all of the above. We’re not gonna run off players to go after portal guys, but we could hold back scholarships from HS recruiting to pursue portal players; not like FSU does but just 2 or 3 guys a year could make a huge difference.
I’ve wondered if our practice to give out far fewer offers than other schools, which I think is a differentiator and a great thing for our recruiting, somehow hurts us in pursuing portal players. If a guy enters the portal he’s likely to reach out to teams that recruited him the first time around if we weren’t one of those teams it seems it might hurt our chances.
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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I think we are active, but because we are not willing to buy players
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Jan 20, 2024, 12:48 PM
[ in reply to One big clarification ] |
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we are not getting anyone.
Dabo has said several times we open the door to guys that don't come.
They are getting paid elsewhere.
I'm fine with that.
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All-Pro [677]
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Re: I think we are active, but because we are not willing to buy players
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Jan 20, 2024, 1:00 PM
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Yes. Willing to use the portal. Like you, believe money has prevented some of it from happening. Also, Dabo is fine with most of his talent
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All-TigerNet [10360]
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so every FBS school outside of Clemson and military academies.....
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Jan 20, 2024, 1:23 PM
[ in reply to I think we are active, but because we are not willing to buy players ] |
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are capable of bettering their starting lineup through the portal ???
I don't think so.
Dabo either doesn't WANT to use it to his benefit or doesn't know how.......probably a little of both.
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Orange Blooded [3901]
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Re: One big clarification
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Jan 20, 2024, 12:57 PM
[ in reply to One big clarification ] |
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Most Clemson fans aren’t “down on Dabo” because of his OBVIOUS reluctance to use the portal. It’s 100% possible to wish that your coach would do this one thing differently without wishing you had a different coach. Many many posters on Tnet can’t grasp that concept.
Dabo is the best thing that has happened to Clemson football in my lifetime and I hope he’s our coach until he retires, but I would like to see us be more active in the portal
Awesome post 💯👍👏
Very well said!
My stance as well. I don't want to use the portal to completely overhaul the roster but it would be nice for depth related purposes.
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All-TigerNet [10640]
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Re: One big clarification
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Jan 20, 2024, 1:31 PM
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Quote: "nice for depth related purposes".
Of course that brings up a question. Portal players are not coming here to add depth, and I think that is NOT what you meant. But the player who he moves in front of is likely not happy so does that start a chain of those players transferring out an then having to get more portal players. Seems like it might start a never ending merry-go-round ...... i.e FSU!
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Varsity [217]
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Dabo is not going to pay players in the portal***
Jan 20, 2024, 4:10 PM
[ in reply to One big clarification ] |
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Legend [16186]
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Re: One big clarification
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Jan 22, 2024, 10:54 AM
[ in reply to One big clarification ] |
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I agree, sort of.
I trust Dabo, a head coach with an outstandingly and unexpectedly great history of success, to make decisions that will result in long range success more than I trust the Jimbos, Dions, Harbaugh's, Beamer jrs, Kiffins, and guys in the cheap seats to chart a course through the changing world of college football that will maximize the chances of success for Clemson.
Most college coaches fail to be successful. A lot more programs have crashed on the rocks of the transfer portal than have been successful via the transfer portal. No one coaching in college football today has been more successful than Dabo in the past dozen years. To clamor for change for the most successful coach in the college football world of 2/1/2024 than Dabo seems monumentally stupid to me.
Go Tigers!!
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Orange Blooded [3060]
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Re: Football Scholarship breakdowns Clemson Vs. Other schools
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Jan 20, 2024, 1:24 PM
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Other schools won't let the numbers crunch stop them from continuing to sign players because it essentially forces their less talented players to leave.
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Legend [19950]
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Re: Football Scholarship breakdowns Clemson Vs. Other schools
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Jan 20, 2024, 1:31 PM
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Scholarships are tight because we raided App State's recruiting class at the last minute. We could have saved those spots for portal guys, but we didn't. FSU has had more guys transfer out than transfer in, so they have enough open scholarships for the incoming transfers. I assume it's the same for most of the SEC and B1G schools, although they might just be planning on "processing" their unwanted players in the spring. Usually, guys will choose to leave if they're told they'll never see the field at their current school.
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Oculus Spirit [77014]
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Bird in the hand worth two in the bush??***
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Jan 20, 2024, 1:41 PM
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Legend [18798]
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This^^^^^^^^100%
Jan 20, 2024, 4:05 PM
[ in reply to Re: Football Scholarship breakdowns Clemson Vs. Other schools ] |
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For some reason, we are holding on to this notion that we have to have x number of players in each position by the end of the signing period.
If we miss on our top guys, we just load up with projects with no big offers instead of waiting for a portal player or next cycle.
So, what we end up with is what we have now. Being full of players at each position group who take up valuable resources who may never contribute or, worse, leave right when they might be a solid backup (ie Thomas).
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Orange Blooded [4036]
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Since you asked - example - Clemson Vs. Georgia
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Jan 20, 2024, 1:48 PM
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Other schools sign many more than the limit - then throw them out.
For instance Georgia.
2024 - 28 high school. Then add 6 transfers. = 34
2023 - 26 high school. Add 4 transfers = 30
2022 - 30 high school. Add 1 transfer = 31
2021 -20 high school. Add 3 transfers.
Just taking those 4 years and assuming redshirts and leaving early for pro even out.
High school sign - 104 signees
Transfers - 14
So, 118 players added.
85 scholarships.
Georgia pulled scholarships pushed out, etc - 33 kids.
Clemson
2021 - 18
2022 - 21+1 =22
2023 - 26 + 1 =27
2024 - 22
Total - 89
We had 4.
Georgia and others over sign and dump . Not right, but they get away with it.
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110%er [7497]
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The #s being pushed out at UGA are far less than that
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Jan 20, 2024, 3:55 PM
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There are a lot of that 33 that are just selfish/non-team oriented guys that are leaving on their own vs being patient and sticking with the program/grinding it out. Same at OSU and other places. Why? Because of the difference in the type of kids a Clemson is signing vs a true FB factory school. Clemson doesn’t have many at all that leave without graduating seeking more playing time/pmt, they are generally the type that understand the complete lifetime value of going to Clemson and playing for Dabo. That is different than on-field talent/focus. UMs guys sticking together was prime example of what can happen. Alabama under Saban - guys weren’t going for $ - they were going for Saban. Now without Saban, they are transferring out in high #s. Bama now has to change their model and KD is stuck with hard decisions on best approach short and long term. Does UGA push guys out - sure, buts probably closer to 3-5 a year on avg. and the rest are leaving because they want to. Also 6 year bs gives a school a better reason to push guys along - that will no longer be an issue in a couple of years
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CU Medallion [58430]
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When building a roster, how many slots should we leave open for
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Jan 20, 2024, 1:54 PM
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portal transfers vs. HS recruits, when we are filling up our roster with average HS recruits of 4+ stars?
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Orange Blooded [3901]
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Re: When building a roster, how many slots should we leave open for
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Jan 20, 2024, 11:47 AM
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What if we open the season with a 50 to 10 loss in Atlanta to Georgia this upcoming season. Will people be walking out of the stadium happy that Dabo does things the right way? No,it will be an all out rant fest on Tigernet.
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CU Medallion [58430]
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Not me. If winning and satisfying a shallow fan base means that we have to
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Jan 20, 2024, 2:07 PM
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be unethical (oversigning and subsequently pulling schollies), then I'm fine with doing it the right way. The solution in that case isn't to join the scum, it's to call them out and fight for change.
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Orange Blooded [4036]
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100%
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Jan 20, 2024, 2:11 PM
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Correct.
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Orange Blooded [2693]
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Re: 100%
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Jan 20, 2024, 3:06 PM
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100% correct. Just pulling players so the portal players isn’t right. That is where you see commitment failing. Then you have anarchy. I am not against having fill a slot or two with a portal player but not wholesale use like Usuk and Georgia. Hopefully there will be change to real in the portal mess. Right now it is just a bidding role and tampering. Like it has been said on here numerous times, the good portal players already know where they are going to land. Which is not right. A school like Clemson will never stoop to those unethical practices
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All-TigerNet [10360]
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CU Medallion [58430]
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Sad that you think that.***
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Jan 20, 2024, 4:27 PM
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All-TigerNet [10360]
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that's how the world works***
Jan 20, 2024, 4:43 PM
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CU Medallion [58430]
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As long as pieces ofshid allow it to.***
Jan 20, 2024, 4:47 PM
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All-TigerNet [10360]
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you think everybody deserves a trophy?***
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Jan 20, 2024, 4:50 PM
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CU Medallion [58430]
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Dude, I don't know if you are drunk or suffered a head injury as a child,
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Jan 20, 2024, 4:52 PM
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but I sincerely wish you well.
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All-TigerNet [10360]
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lol you have no idea what you're talking about.***
Jan 20, 2024, 4:53 PM
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All-TigerNet [10360]
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Tommy Bowden did things "THE RIGHT WAY"....eventually results determine........
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Jan 20, 2024, 4:44 PM
[ in reply to Sad that you think that.*** ] |
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the outcome.
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CU Medallion [58430]
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Doing things the right way wasn't TB's problem. I really hope you don't
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Jan 20, 2024, 4:50 PM
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go through life thinking dishonesty, corruption, and screwing people over is acceptable in the name of "winning".
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All-TigerNet [10360]
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I know it wasn't, but he was eventually fired/let go/departed b/c of ........
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Jan 20, 2024, 4:53 PM
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lack of results that Clemson wanted.
it's simple.
and I liked Tommy, but it was what it was.
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CU Medallion [58430]
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It's real simple.
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Jan 20, 2024, 5:08 PM
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Of course results are of prime importance. Your implication that I don't understand or believe that couldn't be more wrong. There are many of us still around, however, who believe that honesty and integrity is more important than winning, and how you win is important. I think that anybody who thinks otherwise is a worthless POS, and I don't care what they think, because I know that ultimately, they are the biggest losers of all.
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All-TigerNet [10360]
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as what most do on here you've straw manned it b/c you.....
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Jan 21, 2024, 7:54 AM
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can't have a rational non-orange colored glass conversation.
you completely swung and missed on the point.
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CU Medallion [58430]
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False again. You are the one that's misunderstanding and twisting my words.
Jan 22, 2024, 8:47 AM
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I have simply responded directly to your words.
I agree with Dabo's hesitancy to use the portal like many schools do, which involves revoking scholarships of current players on the roster to make room for portal players.
I agree with Dabo that it's better to build a team through recruiting and development, than relying on the portal.
I have zero problem using the portal to address needs when we have openings, if our coaches determine that best serves our needs.
You said "winning trumps all in the end". I disagree, and think behaving with honesty and integrity trumps all in the end. You twisted that into claiming that I don't think winning is important, and that "everybody desreves a trophy". Winning is the goal, even Dabo says "the fun is in the winning", but it can and must be done the right way. If everything is so screwed up that it can't be done the right way, then you keep doing things the right way, even if it means winning less, while working to get things fixed. Otherwise, it's time to get out.
You have wrongly concluded that I can't have a rational discussion because I have orange-colored glasses and blindly defend Dabo no matter what. Again that is false. I have openly tied our struggles and disappointments over the past few years directly to Dabo. He's the head coach and it all ultimately falls on him. I've been openly critical of Brad Brownell for years. Orange-colored glasses have never prevented me from at least trying to be objective, or taking an unpopular position.
Help me understand what it is I'm missing.
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Trainer [44]
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Re: Football Scholarship breakdowns Clemson Vs. Other schools
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Jan 20, 2024, 4:15 PM
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I think that once the Covid year folks are gone then using the portal won’t be as big of an advantage as it is today. Even if your roster is full of 4+ star high school recruits, the problem is as 18 year old studs they can’t compete with a former 3 star man who is now 25 years old but still playing college football. Maturity matters and unless the kid is an absolute phenom the older guy will likely have a leg up. A 23+ year is just bigger and stronger than an 18 year old.
I could be totally wrong but I think as our roster matures and we get folks who come to Clemson because it’s Clemson then even without use of the portal we’ll be competitive. With our NIL retention focus rather than NIL poaching focus our average roster age/maturity should increase. It really hurt from 2020 to now when we’ve whiffed on several players, QB included, AND our talented guys that could declare pro went. First round guys will likely always go after their junior year even with NIL but when it’s a draft gamble I imagine we’ll start to see more retention with NIL. (I think Shipley this year saw his potential draft position maxed out and Mafah possibly starting to take his carries) It’s key though that our “hit rate” with HS guys needs to improve if we’re going to be as sparse at the portal use as we have been. And I’m totally fine with the way Dabo does it, he’s more of an expert than me as an armchair coach.
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Walk-On [119]
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Re: Football Scholarship breakdowns Clemson Vs. Other schools
Jan 20, 2024, 5:01 PM
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Question. Do we have to give scholarships to NIL players? If not, that would be a work around when scholarships are already accounted for. A player making good NIL money could pay their own tuition, and still make out nicely.
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Hall of Famer [23112]
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Bama is having to replace 50, as of now ,more to come
Jan 21, 2024, 10:50 AM
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off of last season's roster.
Quick check of Ohio State shows,as f now
27 Seniors
19 Portalers
6 Draftees
That's 52, there's some overlap between Seniors AND Portal list, bout 9
Meaning they're having to replace at least 40 off of last year's roster
Portal envy folks, just read the Headlines,listen to ESPN to be told what to believe.
Because UGA wasn't included in previous post,as of now.
10 Seniors
20 Portalers
11 Draftees
As of right now, UGA is having to replace 41 off of last season's roster
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Hall of Famer [23112]
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Starter [356]
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Re: Football Scholarship breakdowns Clemson Vs. Other schools
Jan 22, 2024, 9:10 AM
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How many other teams have 5% of their scholly's on kickers? How many other teams have a number of 5th year seniors that haven't sniffed a starting position still on scholarship? We are no longer a national power because of lack of talent and roster management. The changing landscape of college football has put Clemson behind other teams with greater revenue streams and NIL money but some of it is self- inflicted. It's great to be able to do things the right way, establish team chemistry, have the moral high ground, etc. but you have to accept far less pure talent on the roster.
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Hall of Famer [23112]
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Replies: 40
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