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Orange Blooded [4017]
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Bernie Madoff
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Mar 28, 2024, 6:54 AM
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$10M bail
His Ponzi scheme, amounting to a staggering $18 billion, is perhaps the most infamous financial fraud in history. Madoff’s bail was set at $10 million and was subsequently sentenced to 150-years in prison.
Donald Trump
$464M bail
No victims. No damages. Paid his loans of early.
Largest bail set for an individual in the entire history of the United States.
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All-TigerNet [12592]
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Re: Bernie Madoff
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Mar 28, 2024, 7:30 AM
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Yes, but we're talking about Trump. To save our democracy, anything is legitimate.
The bond of $454 million was ridiculous, so ridiculous that the NY appellate judges slashed the amount to $175 million.
Now on to the Stormy Daniels hush money trial. Alvin Bragg has turned himself into a pretzel to bring these charges that both the Feds and the state of NY passed on. Trump will be required to be in court every day this trial goes on instead of on the campaign trail.How convenient.
Somebody help me on understanding why issuing a $454 million bond before an appeal could be made, is fair? The hatred for Trump runs so deep that it seems anything is justified to try to stop him from beating Biden. That is how weak Joe Biden is.
Biden can not win a free and fair election it would seem. Dem lawyers in another move to save democracy are doing their damnest to keep 3rd party candidates off the ballot.
I can only hope Biden, the pleasant non demagogue that he is, soon trots out his line used on the Pubs "They're going to put y'all back in chains." I also want to hear, "You ain't black if you don't vote for me." Hopefully he'll use that one often in Michigan.
If Trump wins, it may well be because many people will feel the courts have been used in an unprecedented way to try to cripple a political opponent. Each charge is different from the others and some of the charges may well have validity, but some of these charges are very difficult to square with a sense of fairness and proportionality. Murderers granted bail have never been required to post anything close to the bond set by the original judge.
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Hall of Famer [24106]
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Re: Bernie Madoff
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Mar 28, 2024, 8:14 AM
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The Political Justice system can't allow deplorables to decide this in an election. Democracy is too important for elections.
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Hall of Famer [20542]
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Re: Bernie Madoff
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Mar 28, 2024, 8:20 AM
[ in reply to Re: Bernie Madoff ] |
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I do think you're missing one essential component of this whole mess you'll never hear about from Fox News, though, and that's why this whole thing has escalated so far.
After Cohen started singing and put the goods he had on Donald on a plate for both New York State and Manhattan, there was enormous political pressure coming from the New York Dems to do something. Doesn't justice apply to everyone, and why do the rich and powerful always get to be forever above the law? Again, and I keep making this point, and everyone keeps not hearing it - getting whistleblowers from Fortune 500 companies or the inner circles of billionaires is virtually unheard of. They keep the people who know where their bodies are buried close and financially incentivized to keep their mouths shut. It isn't that prosecutors don't want to prosecute Fortune 500 companies or billionaires - getting a prize whale can make their careers. It's that they usually can't. Fortune 500 companies and billionaires are hard targets, and without an insider willing to not just talk but provide actual proof positive of misdeeds, getting them is all but impossible. I mean, Jeffrey Epstein was running his celebrity pedo service for almost two decades before they finally got him, and it was flagrant.
So Donald was always going to take a hit. Thanks to his complete (and incredibly foolish) abandonment of Cohen, he was exposed and prosecutors had him over a barrel. He should have cooperated, paid some fines, closed the cases, taken his slaps on the wrist, and moved on. But he didn't. Instead he did what he always does - and tried to bareface lie and bully his way out of it while screaming like a b!tch about how unfair it was that the law actually applied to him and publicly throwing shade at the judges, prosecutors, and the justice system itself. And in the judge's own words, the biggest reason the fine was so huge was "his complete lack of remorse for his actions."
Donald thought he was bigger than the system. And the system is duly eating him alive. And he pretty much did it to himself, on a whole bunch of levels.
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Hall of Famer [24809]
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I'm not even going to try to dissect all that BS. DNC political prosecution.
Mar 28, 2024, 11:19 AM
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Don't think it won't have future repercussions.
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Orange Blooded [4790]
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Re: Bernie Madoff
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Mar 28, 2024, 7:42 AM
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If the Democrats have to imprison or even publicly execute Trump to save our democracy they are gonna do it. You should be more appreciative of their efforts to protect you from yourself.
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Hall of Famer [20542]
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Re: Bernie Madoff
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Mar 28, 2024, 7:55 AM
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You do realize the $464 million was in fact a bond and not bail, right?
The case you're referring to is in fact a civil one, not a criminal trial. And we've been over the "no victims" part ad nauseum. I disagree, completely.
And again, the whole reason the case is on the block to begin with was Michael Cohen wanted to retaliate against Trump because he'd gone to jail for Donald over the hush money thing - a separate issue - and then Donald had cut him loose, as he has so many others. Which wasn't a good idea, when Cohen knew where so many of Donald's bodies were buried. Cohen went public - in fact he starting singing in the middle of a Congressional hearing - and all of a sudden Donald had massive legal exposure. And a whole lot of enemies of his own making who very much wanted his scalp on their mantle.
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Orange Blooded [2482]
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Re: Bernie Madoff
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Mar 28, 2024, 7:59 AM
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Sucks such an honest man like Trump is always such a victim.
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All-In [42196]
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Re: Bernie Madoff
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Mar 28, 2024, 8:09 AM
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Hall of Famer [24809]
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Birm'in it, huh...? The devolution is complete. Your charade is self-evident.***
Mar 28, 2024, 11:22 AM
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All-TigerNet [12252]
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It's the destruction of norms.... those same norms that used to separate the USA
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Mar 28, 2024, 8:30 AM
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from most other countries in the world.
The elitist class (of all political persuasions) have been slowly chiseling away at our norms for decades. The Bush family did a lot of chiseling - particularly under the guise of fighting terrorism. But since 2016 and the election of Trump - the Democrats have taken the destruction of US norms into whole new realms of hyperspeed.
If I were to categorize people regarding Trump, I believe that Trump has a 25% cult-like following (MAGA drones) who refuse to see any flaws in the man - and he has flaws...many flaws.... Conversely, there is a 30% anti-Trump cult who are every bit as blinded in their hatred of Trump as the MAGA drones are in their admiration.
Almost the whole DC ecosystem apparatus is a member of the anti-Trump cult and nothing is off limits to the anti-Trump cult. Everything is justified so long as it is used to damage Trump. Every Swamp tool, every bureaucratic tool, every legal or illegal activity, every matter based in truth or fiction - is to be weaponized as a means to destroy Trump. Perverting and destroying the fabric and faith of our institutions is of no consequence so long as it takes Trump down.
I keep saying - politics is a "what goes around comes around" game. History has proven that idiom to be true time and time again. If Democrats and anti-Trump cult members believe that there will be no future consequences of their political lawfare and that it will be limited to just this instance of Trump, then they are fools. I don't know what is worse - that they are so blinded with "get Trump" that they simply don't care or that they are actually so foolish as to not see the future repercussions of their "get Trump" actions.
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Hall of Famer [20542]
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Re: It's the destruction of norms.... those same norms that used to separate the USA
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Mar 28, 2024, 8:51 AM
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Possibly. Probably, even.
But what would the consequences of not getting Trump be? What happens if it is revealed that you can pull the sh!t Trump did, with no accountability?
The man literally wants to be Putin or Kim Jong-Un. That's even more problematic.
What needs to happen to clean up Washington is a different discussion. But populism isn't the answer, it's an even worse disease...and it unfortunately distracts almost completely from the obvious steps that have to be done to actually drain the swamp - namely, campaign finance reform (especially in regards to dark money), enforced term limits to unroot the professional political class that was never supposed to exist to begin with, and voting reform - like, say, ranked-choice voting - that actually works here in 2024, breaks this pernicious zero-sum hold political parties have over our system, and is updated from a time almost 250 years back when there were just 13 states and the guys who wrote it were hopping off horses and carriages after weeks-long trips to Philly. Our election system is for sure showing its age and limitations.
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All-TigerNet [12252]
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Re: It's the destruction of norms.... those same norms that used to separate the USA
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Mar 28, 2024, 10:19 AM
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If Trump pulls some shid then fine - go after him with the same vigor and standards applied to all others - but particularly those in his class and in our political class. But having an AG digging up supposed Trump "crimes" committed 13 years ago (before his foray into politics), with no initiating complaint/accusation of fraud, that fulfills a campaign promise to "get Trump" is decidedly not the norm. Quite the opposite - it wreaks of a Lavrentiy Beria style prosecution.
I hate double standards - always have and always will regardless of who the double standard is being applied. Politics is fraught with double standards and is part of the reason I abhor most politicians - party immaterial.
But the political double standards that are being applied to Trump are so out of whack with the norm that it is slowly making a martyr of the man - the last thing we need or want. Honest people (those not in the MAGA or anti-Trump cult) see the out of whack double-standards and is a big reason why Trump has gone up in the polls since this political lawfare kicked into high gear.
I agree that dark money, draconian term limits, and campaign finance reform are a good start to draining the swamp. But I believe the biggest wellspring for the swamp is the actual Federal Budget. The only way to tame the DC swamp is through taking money away from the bureaucratic power structure that has been built. The very foundation of bureaucratic power is the Federal funding/manning levels that empowers every Federal agency to do ever more central planning in a system where Federal regulations have become a substitute for actual Congressional lawmaking.
If king for a day, I would reduce the bureaucracy's money supply (and by real reductions not the DC version of "budget cuts") while also getting rid of some agencies all together (i.e. Education Dept). And I do include the DoD in these cuts because as they waste a shid ton of our tax dollars on BS and have a lot of unnecessary DoD employees roaming the halls of the Pentagon.
I'm not as big a fan of tampering with the election system as flawed as it may be. I just can't buy into the ranked voting system. It practically guarantees that all ballots will be handled multiple times with multiple rounds of counting that extend the election cycle from being completed in a single day (as used to be the norm) to one where the process takes days if not weeks. I just have an inherent distrust of election results the more times ballots are handled and the longer it takes to count them to produce a final result.
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Hall of Famer [20542]
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Re: It's the destruction of norms.... those same norms that used to separate the USA
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Mar 28, 2024, 11:07 AM
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I agree with the vast amount of what you said there. I'm a Libertarian at heart - governments should be as minimalistic a structure as possible, and the best government is almost always the one closest to you. I think as far as a Federal government we need a common bill of rights, a common defense and disaster relief, and stuff like a common system of trade agreements and easement rights and maybe I could be convinced to extend this to a national road or rail system. After that...well, those are jobs that IMHO are best done at the state or local level.
But as far as Trump goes, there's really no good answer there. I agree prosecuting him in the manner in which New York State is doing it, unfortunately, is a bad look and a worse precedent. The others, IMHO, are legit and should be prosecuted.
As far as the election system goes, we have to overhaul it at some point, because what our political system has become isn't a reflection of "the will of the founders", it's a system that just sorta growed...and has been gamed and exploited and almost completely perverted from intention long since. And worse, it's gone past the point of giving us careerist politicians like Biden who spend 40 and now 50 years in office to giving us outright populists-who-want-to-be-fascist-dictators like Trump. Look no further than Hungary to see where that road goes.
Dealing with Trump, IMHO, is the first order of business because he's the most pressing threat. He literally wants to destroy democracy and do what he wants when he wants and do whatever he wants to whoever he wants, whenever the %$^& he wants to do it. But populism is also a deeper symptom of a system that's broken beyond repair and badly needs a rebuild...or even if we deal with Trump, the same problems are going to re-emerge and we'll be right back here in ten years or less. But that rebuild needs to be handled by We The People, specifically people like you and me and anybody else who prefers discussion and rationality to just vilifying and trying to annihilate anybody not in their arbitrary tribe - and few tribes are more arbitrary than political parties, lordy. So I say: let's all stop screaming like a pack of baboons with bleeding piles, and put our heads together and coming to a rational decision everybody can live with and is willing to put their pen to. That's exactly what the original Constitutional Convention was. Are we somehow less capable today than guys were in 1784?
Setting everything on fire like a dumb peasant mob with torches and pitchforks is...not any sort of answer. We live in this house so many folks (on the extremes of both sides) are trying to torch.
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Hall of Famer [24809]
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Who's controlling social media and spying on citizens through tech? Who's
Mar 28, 2024, 11:36 AM
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trying to prosecute their political rival in their politically dominated venues across the country?
Who's actually running the White House right now?
Exposing all of the above is "the first order of business". The Puppet's Regime are the ones who want to "destroy democracy".
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Legend [17294]
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All-TigerNet [12252]
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As it was with all the Democrat efforts to manipulate the Electoral College
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Mar 28, 2024, 10:29 AM
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electors in 2016 to deny Trump the Presidency....
Politics is a "what goes around comes around" world. It is a never ending cycle of "what aboutism" that every time a norm is pushed beyond it's established boundary it becomes the "new norm" that typically brings ever increasing negative consequences.
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Hall of Famer [24106]
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Re: As it was with all the Democrat efforts to manipulate the Electoral College
Mar 28, 2024, 10:39 AM
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I definitely remember the cries of 'the electors don't have to vote for him. They need to save the country.'
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All-In [34113]
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Donald Trump is not out on bail. That'd be funny though.
Mar 28, 2024, 9:02 AM
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No, the $454M bond (now reduced to $175M) is not something Trump has to pay unless he wants to. It's a form of guarantee a defendant can buy to stay the effect of a judgment while an appeal is pending. It guarantees payment of the full judgment against him. Or in Trump's case, because apparently the courts are rigged in his favor, it guarantees less than half of the judgment amount.
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All-In [34113]
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The Georgia bond, btw, is $200k I think. Far less than Madoff.***
Mar 28, 2024, 10:59 AM
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110%er [9101]
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Please define the definition of bail & judgement - here's what the interweb sez
Mar 28, 2024, 10:55 AM
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about each --
bail is the temporary release of an accused person awaiting trial, sometimes on condition that a sum of money be lodged to guarantee their appearance in court.
Judgment is a court decision that settles a dispute between two parties by determining the rights and obligations of each party. Judgments are classified as in personam, in rem, or quasi in rem. Judgments are usually monetary, but can also be non-monetary, and are legally enforceable.
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Standout [312]
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Its not a bail amount. HTH.***
Mar 28, 2024, 11:13 AM
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