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TNET: For the College Football Playoff, Clemson needs to win out, others need chaos
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TNET: For the College Football Playoff, Clemson needs to win out, others need chaos
Nov 13, 2019, 8:27 AM
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Hall of Famer [8904]
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Re: TNET: For the College Football Playoff, Clemson needs to win out, others need chaos
Nov 13, 2019, 8:32 AM
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Oculus Spirit [41710]
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so much for comparing common opponents
Nov 13, 2019, 8:34 AM
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this committee is whacked. There are going to be some mad people when the wrong team comes in at 4th. It's coming too.
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Game Day Hero [4309]
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Re: TNET: For the College Football Playoff, Clemson needs to win out, others need chaos
Nov 13, 2019, 8:43 AM
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What's up with the purple and teal? Is that a negative?
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Dynasty Maker [3272]
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I wonder if it's for legal reasons?
Nov 13, 2019, 10:18 AM
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That's weird.
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Orange Blooded [2318]
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Associate AD [1033]
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Re: TNET: For the College Football Playoff, Clemson needs to win out, others need chaos
Nov 13, 2019, 9:14 AM
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We need an 8 team playoff! The 4 team system isn't working and is unfair! GO TIGERS!!
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Oculus Spirit [41710]
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It seems to work perfectly for us.***
Nov 13, 2019, 9:28 AM
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Clemson Conqueror [11770]
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Re: It seems to work perfectly for us.***
Nov 13, 2019, 9:34 AM
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I agree about it working for the Tigers. Even if they increase the playoffs to 8 teams, the number 9-11 teams will be screaming about how they got ripped off. This problem will not go away just by increasing the field.
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Athletic Dir [1160]
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Re: It seems to work perfectly for us.***
Nov 13, 2019, 9:48 AM
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i use to be on board of a larger playoff field.. but,.. after listening to dabo.. i'm now against it.. he said (and i agree) if you increase the playoff, you minimize the importance of regular season games.. and, that's what i've always loved about college ball.. w/ a 4 team playoff, yes, you'll have some teams that will argue they shoulda, coulda, woulda... but, you'll have a playoff w/out abandoning the importance of winning each and every game in the regular season.
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Orange Blooded [3247]
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Please explain to me how this waters down the regular season
Nov 13, 2019, 9:55 AM
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I need examples, because I'm not buying it.
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Rival Killer [2644]
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You mean like how the reg season mattered when LSU beat Bama
Nov 13, 2019, 10:00 AM
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in 2011?
Or when Auburn beat Bama in 2017?
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Letterman [164]
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Re: You mean like how the reg season mattered when LSU beat Bama
Nov 13, 2019, 10:33 AM
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Every game matters... unless your Alabama. If you go to an 8 team playoff then every game still matters... unless your the SEC. We will get 3 to 4 SEC teams every year.
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Orange Blooded [3247]
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Re: You mean like how the reg season mattered when LSU beat Bama
Nov 13, 2019, 1:00 PM
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Not if it's done right. At most, you would have 2 SEC teams (SEC champion, wildcard team) in an 6- or 8-team playoff.
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Athletic Dir [1160]
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Re: Please explain to me how this waters down the regular season
Nov 13, 2019, 4:32 PM
[ in reply to Please explain to me how this waters down the regular season ] |
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ok.. last year, at the end of the regular season, michigan was ranked 8th w/ 2 losses.. the year before ohio st was ranked 8th w/ 2 losses.. in 2016 michigan was ranked 5th w/ 2 losses, wisconsin was ranked 6th w/ 2 losses, oklahoma was ranked 7th w/ 2 losses and penn st was ranked 8th w/ 2 losses.. in 2015 standford was ranked 7th w/ 2 losses..
so, if you go to an 8 team playoff it becomes less important to win all your games cause it's obvious that teams w/ (up to) 2 losses can still get in. so.. when a team is undefeated and they get to the end of the season and they're "in", i can see teams starting to go the NFL route and playing their backups the entire game cause they don't wanta get their stars injured.. caauuusssee.. that game doesn't matter.
and, another great example is clemson.. this year.. right now, as it stands, if it were an 8 team playoff.. we'd be in whether we win out or lose a game.. but, w/ a 4 team playoff, we don't have that luxury.
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Legend [6890]
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see ncaa tournament, it started with like 8 teams now 68
Nov 13, 2019, 9:48 AM
[ in reply to Re: It seems to work perfectly for us.*** ] |
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all because bubble teams whining they were leftout and tv money. Dont get me wrong, it is exciting, but does the 68th seed that barely makes it in really deserve a title shot based on eye test or resume or any metric you want to use?
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Letterman [164]
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Re: see ncaa tournament, it started with like 8 teams now 68
Nov 13, 2019, 10:44 AM
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Like most things it's not that 4 teams are not enough its making sure you do what is best with those 4 teams. It's about making sure undefeated teams with weak schedules due to no fault of their own do not get left out. i.e UCF 2017. They beat Auburn who beat both Georgia and Alabama, which both made the playoff. They deserved a shot instead we got 3 deserving teams and Alabama (yes, they went on to win it all, but they got a mulligan that no one else gets).
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Orange Blooded [2468]
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Re: TNET: For the College Football Playoff, Clemson needs to win out, others need chaos
Nov 13, 2019, 9:38 AM
[ in reply to Re: TNET: For the College Football Playoff, Clemson needs to win out, others need chaos ] |
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I think we need to withhold judgement until the end of the regular season. Then we can ask if the #5 team should have had the opportunity to prove they are the best in the land. My guess is that it will work itself out. It has in the past.
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Legend [6890]
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People that want 8 forget the original purpose of playoff
Nov 13, 2019, 9:42 AM
[ in reply to Re: TNET: For the College Football Playoff, Clemson needs to win out, others need chaos ] |
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The purpose of the playoff is to make sure the best 2 teams get a chance, not the best 4 as many are now clamoring for.
Pre playoff, every so often you would have a scenario where there was 3 deserving teams (ie at this point in time if the season ended today you would have CU, OSU, LSU) and 1 would get left out and not even get a chance for championship. Therefore, the playoff was created with the thought that if you capture the top 4 teams, you would pretty much be guaranteed to have the top 2 teams get a chance. I do not think the playoff was created to allow for some underdog cinderella team to come out of the 8 spot to win a title.
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1st Rounder [616]
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Re: TNET: For the College Football Playoff, Clemson needs to win out, others need chaos
Nov 13, 2019, 10:43 AM
[ in reply to Re: TNET: For the College Football Playoff, Clemson needs to win out, others need chaos ] |
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My only thought is if you go up to 8 teams you start asking these kids to play even more games. Would it start right at the beginning of December, or would they play football through January? Last year Clemson played 15 games, with another 4 teams it would have been 16... that's a brutal schedule for college.
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110%er [3729]
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Re: TNET: For the College Football Playoff, Clemson needs to win out, others need chaos
Nov 13, 2019, 11:38 AM
[ in reply to Re: TNET: For the College Football Playoff, Clemson needs to win out, others need chaos ] |
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8 Team Playoff will be the SEC invitational with 3-4 SEC teams every year.
Not so sure its still not at 4 teams.
8 doesn't fix anything, except for guarantee SEC numerous positions.
We have 3 of top 5 SEC currently.
Only fix is conference champions, win and you are in.
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Paw Master [17658]
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Re: TNET: For the College Football Playoff, Clemson needs to win out, others need chaos
Nov 13, 2019, 1:04 PM
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Notre Dame says no.
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Orange Phenom [14106]
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Paw Warrior [4956]
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Tiger Spirit [10029]
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Re: TNET: For the College Football Playoff, Clemson needs to win out, others need chaos
Nov 13, 2019, 9:24 AM
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Unless UGA beats LSU, a one loss Bama is in, period.
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Athletic Dir [1180]
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Re: TNET: For the College Football Playoff, Clemson needs to win out, others need chaos
Nov 13, 2019, 10:14 AM
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Agreed, the Georgia #4 move was a throwaway, from my view. They know someone will drop and Bammer will be in.
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CU Guru [1054]
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Re: TNET: For the College Football Playoff, Clemson needs to win out, others need chaos
Nov 13, 2019, 9:32 AM
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It's amazing all the twists and turns they have built into their ability to do what they want. If nothing else they can fall back onto rigged rankings. Oregon and Utah are not as good as Alabama and Georgia because they willed it so.
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Clemson Conqueror [11770]
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Re: TNET: For the College Football Playoff, Clemson needs to win out, others need chaos
Nov 13, 2019, 9:37 AM
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I'm not sure about Gawja and 'Bammer being better than Oregano and the Utes (What's a Ute?). The two PAC 12 teams play very good defense, which always keeps a team in a game. The Dawgs also play tremendous defense. 'Bammer can score. But their D????
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Paw Master [17658]
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Associate AD [1065]
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Why does the AD at Oregon leave the room for a discussion of
Nov 13, 2019, 9:40 AM
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Alabama vs Minnesota? This guy will say anything to avoid answering any questions about Alabama. He trotted around the Alabama question last week too.
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Orange Blooded [3247]
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Re: Why does the AD at Oregon leave the room for a discussion of
Nov 13, 2019, 9:57 AM
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He had to pee.
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Athletic Dir [1180]
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Rival Killer [3059]
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Re: Why does the AD at Oregon leave the room for a discussion of
Nov 13, 2019, 1:30 PM
[ in reply to Why does the AD at Oregon leave the room for a discussion of ] |
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I wondered about this too. I don't know exactly how it all works (obviously), but my guess was that he was probably out of the room when they were comparing the teams from like 4-13 and trying to divide them into pods to compare against each other.
There isn't much separation (besides Auburn and Florida who have 2 losses). You have 2 undefeated teams (with mediocre schedules), 6 1-loss teams, and then Auburn and UF with 2 losses.
The Oregon AD would've been out of the room for at least some of this discussion as it involves his school. Alabama was split off into the top portion of this group, while Minnesota was split off into the lower portion.
The way it sounds, Bama and UGA were compared against each other, then probably Oregon, Utah, and Minnesota, then Penn St through Baylor (or something to that effect).
So, once the pods were split up and he came back into the room, they would've compared UGA and Bama, but again he may have been out of the room when they were discussing Oregon, Utah, and Minn due to Oregon being involved.
Either way, he needs to be better informed before going in front of the media and college football nation, or he just comes across as ignorant or scared/weak.
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Ring of Honor [23513]
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If you beat an SEC team your losses get ignored?
Nov 13, 2019, 10:00 AM
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These guys dropped the torch. Past committees have been the adults in the room. These guys are just as lost as AP voters.
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Standout [337]
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Just let the Conference Winners in...
Nov 13, 2019, 10:42 AM
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Rank the winners from each of the conferences (and independents) and take the highest top 4. If you didn't play in your conference championship, you missed the boat. If you didn't win your conference championship, welcome to the Orange/Sugar/Rose bowl. If you didn't play in your conference championship and are whining, either beat the other team or find another conference to play in.
I'm tired of all these but, but, but excuses that the teams, fans and the committee make for teams that don't win on Saturdays. What's the point in having these conferences if at the end of the day, it doesn't matter? "This conference is stronger than this one" is irrelevant if they are all playing each other. The SEC is top heavy with three teams and bottom heavy with six teams. The ACC is heavy with middle-tier teams. It is all relative. Give us the best of each conference (if we're gonna play in conferences) and through them in the ring. Let's see who has the biggest and the best!
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Standout [337]
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And seriously...
Nov 13, 2019, 10:47 AM
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Who wants to see LSU and Alabama play again? If LSU wins, they'll ask why they had to prove themselves a second time. If Alabama wins, the regular season game is marginalized. And those from the Left Coast could care less, meaning less viewers watching the playoff games.
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Oculus Spirit [41710]
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if only conference winners are in non-conf games
Nov 13, 2019, 6:58 PM
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become meaningless
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Asst Coach [725]
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Alabama needs miracle type chaos.
Nov 13, 2019, 11:00 AM
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Alabama needs chaos, but I dont think that the chaos that is about to ensue over the next few weeks will help them sneak into the playoffs. I think there are to many one loss teams remaining that have a chance to secure a top 10 win and a conference championship at the same time. The Crimaon Tide would need either, or both, Oregon and Utah to lose before the Pac 12 championship. If that were to happe then they would need the 2 loss team to upset the 1 loss team in the Pac 12 championship. That is asking a lot of chaos in just that situation.
Then the Crimson Tide would also need Baylor to beat Oklahoma before the season is out. That would have to be followed up by Oklahoma getting revenge in the Big 12 championship by beating Baylor. The thing Alabama needs to avoid happening at all cost would be either Baylor or Oklahoma winning both matchups, which would give either Baylor or Oklahoma two, not just one but two, top 10 to top 15 wins and claiming the Big 12 championship. Alabama couldn't beat out a 13-0 Baylor, nor would they beat out a 12-1 Oklahoma who would have two huge wins and a conference championship.
Alabama would need Clemson to lose any game at all. That would be a whole new level of chaos. A one loss ACC championship Clemson team would still be sexier than Alabama imo. Then Clemson would also need some chaos themselves.
The Crimson Tide would need Ohio St to lose to either Penn St., Michigan or Minnesota in the BIG championship game. If Ohio St. Loses to either Penn st or Michigan, the Buckeyes could still beat a top 10 Minnesota and have a
conference championship. Alabama would still be out. Alabama would need OSU to lose twice.
Alabama would need Minnesota to lose a game somewhere along the line. #20 Iowa this weekend. Perhaps to Wisconsin. It doesn't matter, just as long as Minnesota doesn't do the unthinkable and win out claim the BIG championship with a win over Ohio St. That would not be good for those Bammer fans.
They can't get in over LSU and have no shot a getting a conference championship.
The type of chaos that Alabama needs is almost asinine. Is it impossible? Not really, but it is longer than the longest of long shots...perhaps...ever. Everyone can calm down, Alabama is done.
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Rival Killer [3059]
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Re: Alabama needs miracle type chaos.
Nov 13, 2019, 1:47 PM
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Part of the problem here is that they've marginalized most of the (non-SEC) conferences. This is obvious by Baylor being ranked behind 2-loss Auburn and Florida. So for instance, if OU beats Baylor twice, Baylor now with 2 losses is probably barely in the top 25 if at all, making those wins not look as good.
At the same time, Bama could beat a 3-4 loss Auburn team that will likely still be top-25 giving them a "quality win".
Same thing goes for the Pac 12. If Utah wins out, their best win will be over a probably #15ish Oregon team, while Bama gets credit for beating an average Auburn team who is likely to be ranked above Oregon if they beat UGA.
There is still a LONG way to go, but I hate how it just keeps being set up for the SEC wins to matter, while other conference wins are marginalized.
p.s. If Penn St finds a way to beat Ohio St, they will go to the Big 10 Championship over Ohio St (provided they beat Indiana and Rutgers, which they should).
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Asst Coach [725]
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Re: Alabama needs miracle type chaos.
Nov 13, 2019, 4:17 PM
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Part of the problem here is that they've marginalized most of the (non-SEC) conferences. This is obvious by Baylor being ranked behind 2-loss Auburn and Florida. So for instance, if OU beats Baylor twice, Baylor now with 2 losses is probably barely in the top 25 if at all, making those wins not look as good.
At the same time, Bama could beat a 3-4 loss Auburn team that will likely still be top-25 giving them a "quality win".
Same thing goes for the Pac 12. If Utah wins out, their best win will be over a probably #15ish Oregon team, while Bama gets credit for beating an average Auburn team who is likely to be ranked above Oregon if they beat UGA.
There is still a LONG way to go, but I hate how it just keeps being set up for the SEC wins to matter, while other conference wins are marginalized.
p.s. If Penn St finds a way to beat Ohio St, they will go to the Big 10 Championship over Ohio St (provided they beat Indiana and Rutgers, which they should).
You are 100% correct in that the SEC teams have been propped up in the ranking and teams from other conferences have been marginalized, as you said. The one piece of criteria that the committee can not marginalize, is the conference championship. Alabama will not have one and does not have a chance to obtain one now.
The committee was given criteria at the beginning of the season. When the committee was formed, the conference championship was supposed to be a very important piece that would help the committee separate the teams who deserved to be in the CFP this year. If the committee sticks to this standard, then Alabama has to hope for a miracle at this point.
In order for Alabama to overtake another team with a conference championship, Alabama would need to have a better record and higher profile wins in order to justify the committee selecting them with the "eye test" excuse. The amount of chaos that has to happen for Alabama ar this point for that to happen is unreal. It could happen, but I think I would have a much better chance of winning the lottery that I didn't buy a ticket for.
I could walk into a store and happen to pick up the winning lottery ticket that was dropped and just laying on the ground and become an instant millionaire. Anything could happen I suppose.
You were also correct about Penn St. I completely forgot to list them among the list as well. If Penn St beats Ohio St and then gets revenge on Minnesota in the BIG championship, then Penn St will be CFP bound. Ohio St would be out if that were to happen.
All of this is based on the committee following the criteria that set forth among them when the committee was formed. We all know how things go. The committee could make their own rules as they go and throw the conference championship criteria out of the window. We will see.
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Rival Killer [3059]
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Re: Alabama needs miracle type chaos.
Nov 13, 2019, 4:29 PM
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I agree that the conference championship should count for something, but it seems they really only consider it if all other things are equal (losses, similar quality wins, eye test, etc). Often that Championship gives them an additional win over a quality team making the difference. That said, I never put it past them to use the "unequivocally better" argument.
Penn State as the Big 10 champ would be crazy. Ohio St at 11-1 should have a better resume than Bama, and look better by the eye test too. They've been dominant all year. The Big 10 may end up getting 2 teams in in that situation.
All that said, I do agree with you that it would take some chaos for Bama to get in, but I don't think it's as crazy as you think. At this point, I just don't fully trust the committee NOT to put them in over a 1-loss Oregon/Utah/Baylor/Oklahoma/Minnesota just because they are Bama.
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Asst Coach [725]
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Re: Alabama needs miracle type chaos.
Nov 13, 2019, 7:04 PM
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It it were any other year than this year, I wouldn't think that Alabama needed as much chaos as I currently do. The previous committees used the conference championships as a tie breaker between two teams. This year, the committee was instructed that the conference championship will be 1st on the list of criteria and not a tie breaker. Heather Dinich has indicated this in a few of her interviews and she is supposedly the "committee expert" by her peers. That's what I'm basing all of my opinions on. I could be way off and the committee might not value the conference championship as much as I'm lead to believe.
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Asst Coach [725]
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Re: Alabama needs miracle type chaos.
Nov 13, 2019, 7:19 PM
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I can't find the video where Heather Dinich clearly stated the list of protocols for the committee this year, but these two should give some indication that the committee is using conference championships as a main criteria and not a tie breaker like they have in the past. They are placing more emotion the conference championships this year.
https://youtu.be/rAHZ_Rw4NVM
https://youtu.be/uzrIvCLHnSY
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Asst Coach [725]
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Re: Alabama needs miracle type chaos.
Nov 13, 2019, 7:23 PM
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It should have been "they are placing more emphasis on the conference championships this year."
I have no idea how auto correct got emotion out of that. Oh well.
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Rival Killer [3059]
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Re: Alabama needs miracle type chaos.
Nov 14, 2019, 10:34 AM
[ in reply to Re: Alabama needs miracle type chaos. ] |
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Interesting, I was not aware of that. It should be a larger factor, and I'm glad they are pushing it more this year. That said, Heather still brought up that "unequivocally better" phrase again which scares me.
I think Oregon is the biggest threat to get in over Bama. But, say Bama beats Auburn at Auburn by 30. That's the same Auburn that handed Oregon their only loss at a neutral site, while Bama's only loss was to the #1 team with a less than 100% QB. If chalk holds out for the rest of the top 3, that's the one scenario that I see being not that chaotic/far-fetched, and could lead to an "unequivocally better" argument.
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Asst Coach [725]
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Re: Alabama needs miracle type chaos.
Nov 16, 2019, 1:49 PM
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The scenario you pointed out would give Alabama some traction in their argument to become the fourth and final playoff team. It would be interesting to see how the committee would handle that situation and which criteria would end up weighing more and tipping the scales. Would it be the conference championship or the unequivocally better aspect between Oregon and Alabama.
Though if Utah were to beat Oregon by 21 or more on the PAC 12 championship game and end up 12-1 with a conference championship, then Alabama's arguement would become pretty much weightless imo.
Same would go for Baylor winning out. Several scenarios. It will be interesting to see how it all unfolds. I personally think Alabama doesn't have much of a prayer. If they get led get fortunate en8to land that fourth spot somehow, then they will be just as lucky as they are good.
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Orange Blooded [2577]
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Let's be transparent here
Nov 13, 2019, 11:09 AM
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no reason at all for a "Luxury bikini" ad in the middle of this article - during a cold snap in November, no less.
Other than this, nothing new here.
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Paw Master [16990]
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Your transparency is admirable...
Nov 13, 2019, 11:28 AM
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Admitting to your predilection for surfing scantily clad websites! Ads don't lie!
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Orange Blooded [2318]
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Re: Your transparency is admirable...
Nov 13, 2019, 12:57 PM
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Yeah, mine has Best Buy and a Wide Format Printer. I wish I was reading this on his computer!
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Campus Hero [13636]
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the problem is the argument of Bama vs. UGA
Nov 13, 2019, 11:55 AM
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they shouldn't have been arguing those two for #4. Should have pushed them both out.
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Freshman [8]
TigerPulse: 52%
1
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Re: TNET: For the College Football Playoff, Clemson needs to win out, others need chaos
Nov 13, 2019, 3:35 PM
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it all comes down to whether you were putting the best team or the most deserving team in. In either case we are fine as long as we win. Georgia will lose to LSU almost certainly so count them out and that leaves Alabama as a better team then either Minnesota or Oregon so expect them to get in at number 4 just like they did 2 years ago when they won it all.
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Freshman [8]
TigerPulse: 52%
1
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Re: TNET: For the College Football Playoff, Clemson needs to win out, others need chaos
Nov 13, 2019, 3:35 PM
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it all comes down to whether you were putting the best team or the most deserving team in. In either case we are fine as long as we win. Georgia will lose to LSU almost certainly so count them out and that leaves Alabama as a better team then either Minnesota or Oregon so expect them to get in at number 4 just like they did 2 years ago when they won it all.
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Freshman [8]
TigerPulse: 52%
1
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Re: TNET: For the College Football Playoff, Clemson needs to win out, others need chaos
Nov 13, 2019, 3:35 PM
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it all comes down to whether you were putting the best team or the most deserving team in. In either case we are fine as long as we win. Georgia will lose to LSU almost certainly so count them out and that leaves Alabama as a better team then either Minnesota or Oregon so expect them to get in at number 4 just like they did 2 years ago when they won it all.
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Freshman [8]
TigerPulse: 52%
1
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Re: TNET: For the College Football Playoff, Clemson needs to win out, others need chaos
Nov 13, 2019, 3:35 PM
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it all comes down to whether you were putting the best team or the most deserving team in. In either case we are fine as long as we win. Georgia will lose to LSU almost certainly so count them out and that leaves Alabama as a better team then either Minnesota or Oregon so expect them to get in at number 4 just like they did 2 years ago when they won it all.
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Paw Warrior [4786]
TigerPulse: 100%
37
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Re: TNET: For the College Football Playoff, Clemson needs to win out, others need chaos
Nov 13, 2019, 6:47 PM
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Do i see a bead of sweat on the Bama crowd???
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Game Changer [1615]
TigerPulse: 100%
31
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Re: TNET: For the College Football Playoff, Clemson needs to win out, others need chaos
Nov 13, 2019, 9:09 PM
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IF LSU keeps winning, we should meet in New Orleans, a home game on the Bayou.
Clemson just needs to keep winning, just like our other championships!
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Freshman [6]
TigerPulse: 100%
1
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Re: TNET: For the College Football Playoff, Clemson needs to win out, others need chaos
Nov 14, 2019, 6:08 AM
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Ohio State and Clemson should still be 1 and 2. Clemson being 2 because of the close one against UNC. Everything on both of their schedule played was complete dominance. There is a small gap between the two and the rest. If you look at LSU's, they are not dominant with many games won by less than a touchdown, though against 'ranked teams' which is really a matter of perception. They are just as evenly matched as the ACC. Georgia should not be 4 after loosing to a 4-6 South Carolina at home whom UNC beat. ACC being a weak conference is totally overblown by the media. The coastal is just evenly matched all around. 1. Ohio State 2. Clemson 3. LSU 4. Alabama
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Freshman [6]
TigerPulse: 100%
1
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Re: TNET: For the College Football Playoff, Clemson needs to win out, others need chaos
Nov 14, 2019, 6:15 AM
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Ohio State 30 vs Bama 21
Clemson 44 vs LSU 21
Ohio State 17 vs Clemson 31
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