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Associate AD [810]
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Anyone have an answer to this question....
Oct 1, 2012, 8:16 AM
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The play where TB threw the interception in the BC game was somewhat of a double reverse play and Boyd was the 3rd one to get the ball behind the line of scrimmage. I can't remember who took the direct snap (prolly AE) but after taking the snap he pitched the ball forward to the crossing player and then the ball was pitched backwards to TB and then TB threw it about 35 yards and it was intercepted.
My question is, why was there not a flag on the play for an illegal forward pass since it seems the first exchange of the ball was a forward pass?
The first pitch forward to the crossing player would seem to be the same type of play which is often called a "safe handoff", where the ball is pitched forward by the qb to a running back and the theory is that if the ball is not caught it is not ruled a fumble but an incomplete pass. Therefore, wouldn't that first pitch after the direct snap have been a pass, making the second pass for the interception an illegal pass?
Anyone know the answer to this? Thanks!
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Scout Team [154]
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Would it matter?
Oct 1, 2012, 8:36 AM
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They would of declined the penalty...
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Orange Blooded [2217]
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Yes it would matter
Oct 1, 2012, 8:43 AM
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Because the incomplete pass would have ended the play
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All-In [29046]
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There was no incomplete pass
Oct 1, 2012, 9:24 AM
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If you think AE's pitch was forward then it is a completed pass, then Boyd's pass would've been an illegal pass, but that is a declinable penalty and they would've kept the interception.
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Associate AD [810]
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Re: Yes it would matter
Oct 1, 2012, 10:44 AM
[ in reply to Yes it would matter ] |
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Born, I see your point which is also my point.
The first pitch was essentially a "shuttle pass" and had it not been caught would have been ruled incomplete and the play would have stopped. Therefore, if the first pass was a shuttle pass, then the pass by TB would have been the second forward pass of the ball in that play and therefore TB's pass was illegal.
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All-TigerNet [13888]
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All of that occured behind the line of scrimmage
Oct 1, 2012, 8:44 AM
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So the only forward pass was the one from Tajh.
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Orange Blooded [2609]
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Re: All of that occured behind the line of scrimmage
Oct 1, 2012, 8:46 AM
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You still have forward passes behind the LOS.
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All-TigerNet [13888]
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I still dont see why Tajh's pass would be illegal
Oct 1, 2012, 8:47 AM
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and it looks like the refs agreed
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All-In [29046]
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If AE sent the ball forward
Oct 1, 2012, 9:23 AM
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On the pitch after he received the snap, then Boyd's pass was a second (and illegal) forward pass.
Honestly on replay I'm not. Sure he did, however AE being behind the LOS has nothing to do with it.
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Associate AD [810]
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Thom - I can promise you the first exchange was forward.
Oct 1, 2012, 10:31 AM
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AE took the direct snap and he was 4 yards back, the player in motion ran between AE and the o-line and received the ball on a forward pitch from AE. Then the ball was pitched backwards to TB.
I've never seen two forward passes behind the LOS. It would seem that TB's pass was illegal.
I'm not asking whether or not it "matters" with regard to the play continuing on the field and the interception being taken away. I'm just wondering if the play was legal in the first place.
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Associate AD [810]
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One more point about that play
Oct 1, 2012, 10:41 AM
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If the second pass was an illegal pass then the second pass would have essentially been an "illegal forward lateral" when TB threw it 35 yards downfield that ball was a "live" ball and would have been a fumble even if no one caught it.
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CU Guru [1321]
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Nah. Forward laterals are illegal passes and the ball is
Oct 1, 2012, 10:44 AM
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dead as soon as it's touched or touches the ground, as per the rules. I didn't cite that one specifically in the post below, but I read it in there when researching.
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All-In [29046]
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Don't think that's right
Oct 1, 2012, 11:28 AM
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If the defense intercepts an illegal forward pass they can decline the penalty.
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CU Guru [1321]
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Could be right. I didn't read into all the implications of
Oct 1, 2012, 11:38 AM
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illegal passes. I just remember seeing that it was ruled dead, and not a "fumble"
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Head Coach [762]
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Re: I still dont see why Tajh's pass would be illegal
Oct 1, 2012, 8:53 AM
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I didn't go back and watch the play but if we did flip the ball forward then back then coward it would be illegal pass since u can not have two forward passes.
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110%er [9085]
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You can if only one of them is past the original LOS***
Oct 1, 2012, 9:18 AM
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Associate AD [810]
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77 - if that is the case
Oct 1, 2012, 11:51 AM
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If you can have two forward passes behind the LOS, then why has it always been important that screen passes are thrown laterally or backward on plays where the WR throws a pass downfield?
If what you are saying is true, then the screen pass to the WR could be thrown forward out to the WR and as long as the WR is behind the LOS then the WR could make an additional pass downfield. I have never seen this type of play run in all my years of watching football.
Imagine a play where a qb is in the shotgun and the WR is split wide. The ball is snapped and the WR takes one step back from the LOS, the QB throws the ball FORWARD to the WR and then the WR throws the ball downfield. Does this seem like a legal play to you? Those on here saying two forward passes behind the LOS are legal are saying the play I just described would be legal.
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Orange Blooded [2217]
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So the basis of a play's legality is if the ref throws a flag?
Oct 1, 2012, 8:56 AM
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Did you happen to be watching ESPN last Monday night?
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110%er [9085]
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You can have more than one forward pass.......
Oct 1, 2012, 9:17 AM
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as long as they're all behind the LOS. Any forward pass whether its behind the LOS or over the LOS is ruled an incomplete pass if it's not caught.
A pass or pitchout even with or behind the "passer" is ruled a lateral if it's not caught and is a free ball that can be recovered by the defense.
Don't confuse a forward pass behind the LOS with a forward pass over the LOS. Again, as long as the ball stays behind the original LOS it can be thrown forward more than once. But once the ball passes the original LOS it cannot be thrown forward at all.
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CU Guru [1321]
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According to Rule 2, section 19 of the NCAA rules
Oct 1, 2012, 9:41 AM
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RULE 2 Definitions
Forward and Backward Pass
SECTION 19. Passes
ARTICLE 2. a. A pass is forward if the ball first strikes the ground, a player,
an official or anything else beyond the spot where the ball is released. All other
passes are backward passes. When in question a pass thrown in or behind the
neutral zone is forward rather than a backward.
RULE 2 Definitions
SECTION 13. Handing the Ball
ARTICLE 1. a. Handing the ball is transferring player possession from one teammate to another without throwing, fumbling or kicking it.
b. Except when permitted by rule, handing the ball forward to a teammate is illegal
RULE 7 Snapping and Passing the Ball
SECTION 3. Forward Pass
ARTICLE 2. A forward pass is illegal if:
...
d. It is the second forward pass during the same down.
http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/FR12.pdf
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Walk-On [130]
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null [79]
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Re: Anyone have an answer to this question....
Oct 1, 2012, 9:18 AM
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bump...someone with knowledge answer this. Good question.
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Orange Blooded [4988]
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That's correct. It should have been an illegal forward pass
Oct 1, 2012, 12:07 PM
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It was clearly 2 forward passes. However, that penalty can be declined by the defense so it would've stood anyway.
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