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OK, let's clear the air, shall we?
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Rock Defender [54]
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OK, let's clear the air, shall we?
Jun 8, 2012, 4:06 PM
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A lot of people love to put words in my mouth. Claim I say or think certain things. Well, here is what I think, and what I have thought and have been saying all along.
PLEASE - NO flames or attacks! This is simply MY OPINION!!
If you don't like me and want to flame me simply because you don't like me, well that's your issue, don't read this, please just go away and ignore me. It's VERY simple. If you don't like me, don't like my posts, then ignore me or simply don't read what I write. If me or house coots ruin TNET for you, that's not our problem, it's yours. There is an ignore feature - use it! That's why it's there!
People keep flaming and asking what I want, what I think, what will make me happy, etc., so here it is in one post. I've done this before, but per usual people say I haven't.
I told Crump I would chill out for the summer, so I'm clearing the air with this post then waiting till fall and the season starts. That does NOT mean I won't post, but I'm going to go easy and lay off Dabo and football till fall. So no more "Caddy said this, caddy said that". Here it is in B&W!! And again, this is what I've been saying all along.
Fair warning, I am going to do an OP next week on Jack, but haven't had time to do it yet. It will not be my opinion, I will not bash Jack, it will be a simple analysis of the numbers. So do NOT say "you said you were not posting any more this summer". No I did not, but that's classic TNET in action. Don't actually read what is written, but rather read into and read what you want to read.
IMO, there has not been a major improvement in CU football under Dabo. There has been some on offense, but the results under Dabo are more inconsistent than under TB. TB owned the coots and never had a losing season despite taking over a program in shambles. TB & RR turned Clemson around and TB deserves credit for the new facilities and greatly improved recruiting. Dabo took over a FAR better program than TB, and the ACC is easier now. People forget FSU was at their peak when TB got to Clemson. We had very outdated facilities and very very little talent.
Dabo was NOT hired to rebuild, he was hired to get us over the hump that TB could not. The reality is, had TB hired a better OC, he'd probably still be here and CU football would be better than it is now.
Winning 1 ACC title in arguably the worst ACC ever while getting stomped 3 years in a row by USC, plus our other struggles, is NOT getting over the hump IMO! Dabo himself said all Clemson needed was "an oil change". Additionally, not even Barker would hire such an inexperienced coach if he thought we needed rebuilding. No, Barker wanted winning, but just enough to keep most fans happy. He wanted fans coming to games and thinking better is just around the corner. Barker never wanted major success and recent changes make that more obvious than ever.
The only difference between now and TB has been Morris. After 3 years of continued quality recruiting (which is another myth, as recruiting under Dabo is on par with TB based on the rankings), staff changes, and an ACC that is as bad or worse, the only improvement is 10-4 and ranked 22nd vs. 9-4 and ranked 21st TB's last year.
Even with Morris and an extra game, we only improved 1+ in the W/L column.
Yes, we won the ACC, but the ACC is pathetic and we got very lucky that VT beat GT to win their division. Had we played GT in the ACCCG we probably would have lost and there would be no ACC Championship.
TB's problem was a lack of consistency on offense because of the poor play on the OL. Sound familiar?
TB never effectively replaced RR. Morris showed a lot of promise last year, but even when we were 8-0 you could still see issues with the offense and an OL that was worse than the year before despite being older and more experienced. This year we will have a young inexperienced rebuilt OL.
There is also questionable depth on the DL. We have a new DC, but praise at this point is premature and irrational. It is ALWAYS wait and see, cautious optimism with ANY new coach.
Yes, it was Morris' 1st year, yes, we were young, yes, there were injuries on the OL, but guess what? That's football.
- Morris may very well be gone in a few years.
- Youth is not necessarily good when Clemson has shown very little ability to develop players the past 20 years.
- We have a lot of key injuries every year. Are we cursed? Is it poor S&C? I have no idea, but we have a lot of injuries and our guys never seem to fully recover after being injured.
After 3 years under Dabo we are every bit as inconsistent, we are just as soft.
TB owned the coots and never had a losing season. So forgive me if I don't get excited by winning a lousy ACC when we are being owned by a mediocre USC, still struggling vs. ACC nobodys, and getting wasted by teams in bowl games with less talent and/or from conferences worse than the ACC.
Do I think we could and should be better? You dang right I do. A better coaching staff could have been 14-0 last year IMO. I see unlimited potential, but we are still under achieving, we have the talent, but are still lacking consistency, which IMO is due to poor coaching.
Dabo has potential, but Clemson is not the kind of program that should be hiring based on potential. I don't dislike Dabo as a person. I think his story is inspirational. He is enthusiastic, he gets kids, kids like him, but none of that begets winning. It begets good recruiting, but Dabo is 3 years in now. He can no longer get by on enthusiasm & his vision. He needs to start winning outside the ACC or recruiting is going to get a LOT harder!! If recruiting starts dropping off and the inconsistency continues, Dabo's days will be numbered. Good recruiting is his saving grace unless he starts beating USC. So no, I do not hate Dabo, I simply don't like him as our HC.
In regards to enthusiasm, that is good in doses and under control. Unbridled enthusiasm is a negative. A coach needs to be in control, and certainly doesn't need to look foolish, which Dabo has on several occasions. Also, he needs to lay off Spurrier. The media loves Surrier. Dabo can't win there. The media loved Bobby Bowden, but even he looked bad going up against Spurrier. Dabo ain't no Bobby Bowden. You guys love it, but outside of TNET it is seen as silly and Dabo and Clemson end up being the losers. It is especially silly to be talking smack when they are stomping us by 17+ every year!! There is a time and place to talk smack. When a team is owning you ain't the time.
Regarding me personally, I'm not negative. I'm anything but, as I am in fact a very positive person. I'm rational, objective, and realistic. You folks have no idea who I am, what I've overcome, what I've accomplished. To judge me and call me skum, angry, bitter, whatever, b/c you disagree with my opinion is really sad and reflects more negatively on YOU than me. Especially when you folks love promoting your Christianity, your moral high ground, and your "we're Clemson, we're better than that" mantra. This place looks just like FGF most of the time. It wasn't always that way, but it is now.
I am a Clemson grad. I love Clemson and have loved it since I was a kid in the 70s playing on the Hill. Clemson is the only school I applied to. I'm deeply passionate about Clemson and Clemson sports. What I'm not is a sugar coater, nor a kool aid drinker. I'm very direct and blunt, which comes cross even stronger online.
I played football and ran track in high school and had it not been for my car accident I would have played football for Ford and ran cross country/track. My two best friends growing up did play for Ford. One was on the OL and was John Jansen's roommate. The other was the holder for some of David Treadwell's greatest kicks. We downed a bottle of mescal in the Frat Quad after Treadwell broke UGa.'s heart on national TV with one of his patented game ending kicks. Don't remember who ate the worm, I think it was Treadwell, but we were toasted.
My roommate was a wrestler. I had close friends that were athletes in every sport at Clemson. So trust me, I love Clemson and want success at the highest level possible. If I thought we couldn't do it, I wouldn't care, but we can and I hate seeing us not trying. And I especially hate apathetic or delusional fans that hurt the program and school by accepting mediocrity. If a doctor says you only have a 20% chance to live he isn't being negative, he's simply being realistic based on the information at hand. The outlook is negative, the observation/opinion of the doctor is neutral. He's not being negative, he is simply giving his professional opinion.
The reality is fan bases around the country think we are a joke. ESPN gas developed a catch phrase based on us, "pulling a Clemson". Many in our fan base have devolved into coots and TNET now looks an awful lot like FGF.
I have always said good things about Dabo as a person, I only slam his coaching, which A. is warranted, and B. is my right!!
I have always said I will give Dabo credit when the following happens in (2) two consecutive years ... (Why 2 consecutive years? Because any team can put together a good season, quality coaching means consistency!! Honestly, real consistency is doing it at least 3 or 4 years since it takes at least 3 years to see a pattern, but I'm giving Dabo a break saying 2) ...
1. Win 11+ - 10 WAS the mark with an 11 game regular season, but now we play 12 and potentially 14 total.
2. Not just win, but pass the eye test and LOOK good and well coached on the field. And play fundamentally sound.
3. Win the ACC, or at the very least be in the ACCCG.
4. Beat USC!!! TB owned them!!
4. Win, or at least be VERY competitive in our bowl game. If it's not a BCS/playoff game, we need to WIN since it will be the Peach or worse and a matchup we SHOULD win!!
5. Not have any blow outs or get stomped, esp by a team with less talent or in a game we are favored to win. THAT nonsense has to stop.
6. Finish the regular season ranked in the top 20, not top 25, top 20.
THESE have ALWAYS been my criteria for success. Be it TB, Dabo, or Huck Finn. My goals are simple and very realistic for Clemson. These are also minimal goals for any program that wants to be competitive and taken seriously on the national stage.
When Dabo accomplishes those things 2 years in a row he will get my respect as a HC and I'll say he is worthy of being HC at Clemson. In my eyes he'll finally be a GOOD coach. Gonna take a lot more to be great.
I don't even consider Ford "great", but he was very good, an excellent coach and great fit for Clemson, and our best football coach. The only two "great" coaches at Clemson, IMO, were Wilhelm and Ibrahim. Wilhelm didn't just build a baseball power at Clemson, but helped build college baseball in general and the ACC. Had he coached 5 more years I think his legacy would have been even greater. Ibrahim built Clemson into a national power, and like Wilhelm, helped develop soccer, esp in the ACC.
If, however, Dabo doesn't accomplish those goals by the end of the 2014 season he needs to go!! That will be 6.5 years. If you can't accomplish those modest goals at Clemson you need to go!!! That's why we ran TB off and most admit he was here at least 4 years too long. To hold Dabo to a lower standard is not rational. And no, until the ACC improves, winning the ACC is not enough to keep your job, esp if you aren't doing it every year.
Frankly, I was shocked about 40 percent voted in my poll that Dabo would keep his job even if he goes 0-5 vs. USC without another ACC title. Wow, how far our expectations have fallen. If that is true, we should have kept TB, but forced him to hire a proven BCS OC. At least he owned the coots.
Peace and GO TIGERS!!
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110%er [6321]
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*violins playing in the background****
Jun 8, 2012, 4:07 PM
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All-In [37023]
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OK so here ya go
Jun 8, 2012, 4:09 PM
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All-TigerNet [11435]
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poll on how many actually took time to read all that?
Jun 8, 2012, 4:11 PM
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Not me
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: poll on how many actually took time to read all that?
Jun 8, 2012, 4:20 PM
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ok - I quit reading pretty quickly.
That said - I actually like a few things about Dabo.
1 - His absolutely never-ending energy
2 - His attitude
3 - His ability to see talent and get it to CLEMSON (that's for players, but especially for coaches)
4 - His willingness to tell any sorry-azz coach that tries to disrespect CLEMSON what they need to be told (spurrier - I'm talking about your sorry-azz)
5 - The players and coaches want to be all-in with Dabo
I could go on and on - but Dabo is fine. Anyone that can't see Dabo is possibly building something big at CLEMSON is missing something. No - Dabo may not be the coach that someone like Saban is - but the way he's building things here might change that.
Chill out and let's wait and see. He gets 1-2 more years just for the talent and coaching hires before anyone starts to really cry a lot.
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Rock Defender [54]
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I agree, I said there is potential, but even you put it all
Jun 8, 2012, 4:46 PM
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in terms of maybe, possibly, etc. as in being about the future. We did the same thing with TB which is why he was here 9 years. What I'm doing is setting a bar, black and white expectations. Just like with Jack, what is and is not acceptable. We fired TB but people want to keep Dabo even if big picture he no better than TB. That is irrational and could have saved us millions by keeping TB.
It's like Obama. He is all talk. The top one percent pay 1/3 of all taxes, the top 5 percent pay about 60 percent of taxes. Yet he says they don't pay their fair share,but when pressed he won't say what the increase should be.
What I think is in every sport the AD should say ok, here are our expectation, "xyz" and you have "x" years to do it or you are fired and the fans should be aware of this too. If they come close but there are some extenuating circumstances they get another year, but none of this unending nonsense of unacceptable results and inconsistency.
When you work in the private sector you typically have clear goals set by your boss. You meet those goals or get a warning, continued failure to meet those goals gets you fired.
When coaches are paid millions and fans donate and spend millions everyone should know exactly what the goals are, but Barker will never do that in an honest way b/c many fans would say screw it, i'm not going to keep throwing away my hard earned money if they aren't serious about winning and holding coaches and the AD accountable.
There would be so much less stress and BS for everyone involved if there were clear rational and tangible black and white expectations.
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1st Rounder [649]
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He had clear cut goals....and met them.....
Jun 8, 2012, 6:38 PM
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he can't control how bad the ACC was! He set the goal to win the Division first- ok done that twice, next goal win the conference- ok done that, then get to the BCS (for the first time in school history)- ok done that.
If you want to make comparisons to "clear cut goals" in the private sector, you aren't told "hey you have to sell x amount but if our competitors aren't doing well it doesn't count."
Also just for the record the USCe teams that Bowden was beating up on, did not have the resources that the current USCe teams do. Apples to Oranges.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Is it a goal to be pushed around by smaller more inferior
Jun 8, 2012, 6:46 PM
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teams?
Goal number 1 is tough fundamental error free football. Quality football.
Is it a goal to be punked by your biggest and instate rival?
Is it a goal to be castrated by a less talented team from an inferior conference in your bowl game?
Is it a goal to be blown out by less talented conference foes?
Who wouldn't love to be hailed a success for accomplishing only a 1/3 of their goals, esp the easiest ones on the list.
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1st Rounder [649]
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He doesn't have to meet "YOUR" goals.....
Jun 8, 2012, 6:52 PM
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if so you should get with Barker and have the sign in the locker room changed. The goals that were set in his contract, he met 4/5 of those. Noone plays for style points, a win is a win is a win.
As I stated below our games against our rival aren't a fair barometer. That dynamic has changed, they did not have the resources in the TB era, they do now.
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Rock Defender [54]
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wow, I rest my point about fans being our biggest problem.
Jun 8, 2012, 7:20 PM
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With fans like you mediocrity will continue be rewarded and the norm.
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1st Rounder [649]
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Don't let my rationality fool you, there are very few people
Jun 8, 2012, 7:31 PM
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who have the expectations for this program that I do! However, I also have the ability to pull realism out of my emotions. I don't have inflated sense of self worth that makes me think that the way I see things must be the way they are.
I am not a "pumper" as people like to call other people on here. However I just brought the facts. Your opinion on how the team "looks" is irrelevant to the goals attached to the team. An ugly win is still a win and I will take 12 ugly wins over 12 pretty losses every year.
If you get offended by people who have differing opinions than your own, then you aren't qualified to have discussions.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Yet he got an extension but no raise. Wouldn't someone
Jun 8, 2012, 7:35 PM
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meeting almost all of their goals get a raise?
So just getting in a bowl is ok? Don't need to win them, at least half the time?
Beating your instate rival isn't a goal? You think it's not important? You think all that matters is something in writing or that has an incentive?
Sorry, but most fans will not agree with you, IMO.
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All-TigerNet [11435]
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yes beating sc is important but winning your conference is
Jun 8, 2012, 7:43 PM
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More important and the majority on here agree with that. National relevance over local
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Rock Defender [54]
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You contradicted yourself. The ACC gets no respct, we'd get
Jun 8, 2012, 7:52 PM
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more respect beating USC than winning the ACC. You folks focus way too much on the ACC, when no one outside the ACC cares. Winning versus USC, other top 25 OOC teams, and our bowl games is how we get national relevance. And so far under Dabo, and under TB, those are where we suck most.
Funny, when we were beating USC it was our most important game. Suddenly USC doesn't matter, it's all about the ACC. You folks are so inconsistent and transparent that it's ridiculous. And a very very large chunk of our fan base would say, and do regularly say, we can go 1-11 as long as that 1 win is USC.
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All-TigerNet [11435]
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beating sc has never got us anything, winning the acc
Jun 8, 2012, 7:58 PM
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Got us to the bcs, did sc beating us get them a bcs game? You must of been under a rock when an ACC team that was 8-0 was the talk of college football and ESPN. If the Acct isn't respected then why was there 2 in the bcs? I think you just say crape just to start controversy, cause no one that stupid.
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Rock Defender [54]
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You confuse the winning the ACC with national respect. USC
Jun 8, 2012, 8:10 PM
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was at best the fifth best SEC team last year while we were the ACC champs and played in a BCS bowl. Yet we finished the year ranked 22 and they finished ranked 9th.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/ncaa/polls/ap/
But hey, I'm biased right? I always ignore facts, right? I'm just a stupid moron that doesn't know anything and I'm angry and bitter and my senses are clouded by my hatred of Dabo.
Whatever. The poll says I'm right and you're wrong.
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All-TigerNet [11435]
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Everyone is confused but you huh caddie?
Jun 8, 2012, 8:18 PM
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I'm done with you cause its like trying to convince obama that his plan is bad, he just wont listen. 99% on here think you're delusional yet some how you're the one right and thousands are wrong. You're hopeless and nothing but a troll. Have a nice miserable life and never enjoy Clemson football. Just keep b*tching like a woman on the rag.
Message was edited by: Bryanttiger®
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Rock Defender [54]
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Rock Defender [54]
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Exactly. The problem is, contracts and irrational fans .....
Jun 8, 2012, 9:04 PM
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reward positives, but unlike the real world, ignore or fail to punish negatives. In most jobs you don't get big incentives for some tings while having equally bigger failures. There is a bonus for getting in a BCS bowl, but not punishment for being punk'd in it. There needs to be more accountability.
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Orange Blooded [4988]
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You might be surprised to find out how many people outside
Jun 8, 2012, 9:12 PM
[ in reply to I said this in the other post... ] |
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the southeast don't even know South Carolina is our rival, but they know we were the ACC champs by watching the all the BCS talk leading up to the bowls.
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1st Rounder [649]
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Actually the reward for meeting his goals were.....
Jun 8, 2012, 7:47 PM
[ in reply to Yet he got an extension but no raise. Wouldn't someone ] |
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pre determined, he recieved the incentives that were promised in the contract. I love how this has come down to semantics, simply put, your goals for the team are not my goals, and Barkers goals are different from both of ours.
I hate actually HATE losing to South Carolina however they have been a better team. Their success against us has more to do with their improvment as it does our coach. In case you didn't notice they won 11 games last year.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Nice spin. Typically "successful" coaches are in high demand
Jun 8, 2012, 7:53 PM
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and get raises to keep them.
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All-TigerNet [11435]
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Rock Defender [54]
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Recruiting rankings and NFL scouts disagree.***
Jun 8, 2012, 7:42 PM
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All-TigerNet [11435]
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What do recruiting rankings have to do with
Jun 8, 2012, 7:49 PM
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Anything? Did you not see them put nearly 600 yrds on LSU? Whoelse did that? Your bate for Dabo has you blind
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Rock Defender [54]
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It's their coach more than their talent. Lets see how many
Jun 8, 2012, 7:57 PM
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they have drafted the next few years off that tea compared to ours. I already know we will. And recruiting rankings do matter. As does developing players, which quality coaching does.
The reality is, pumpers LOVE Dabo infinitely more than I dislike him. It's not my bias that's the problem.
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All-TigerNet [11435]
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No dumpers like you are just blind
Jun 8, 2012, 8:05 PM
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Its like Deptula ignoring what Lebron did last night and kept saying it wasn't a big game.
Lets see Nuk, Boyd, Sammy, Andre Ellington, Branch, Thompson look like they developed under Dabo. Lose the hate and get in reality.
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Rock Defender [54]
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They are no better now than when they got here. We don't
Jun 8, 2012, 8:14 PM
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develop players, esp our linemen. STS did a great article on this supported by in-depth mathematical analysis.
Goodnight.
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All-TigerNet [11435]
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also thought you were done posting? just another stinking
Jun 8, 2012, 8:22 PM
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Lie. Also why did you feel the need to tell Crump you're done till fall? Is Crump suppose to care? Or is tenet gonna lose posters cause Mr negative is gone? We all wish you'd just leave for good
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Rock Defender [54]
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From what I can see, of the 2 of you, you're the horrible
Jun 8, 2012, 9:15 PM
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one. Angry, dumb, blabbering on and on with useless information about nothing.
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Aficionado [176]
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Re: He had clear cut goals....and met them.....
Jun 8, 2012, 8:26 PM
[ in reply to He had clear cut goals....and met them..... ] |
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BUT he still gets his butt kicked two or three times a season!Wake up Clemson fans!Yes we won the ACC,GREAT! but we should be alarmed that two or three games each season since Dabo has been HC,we get butchered by teams that are less talented,have far less facilities,and dont have near the fan base that we have here!How do you think that we would fair in the BIG12 or the SEC? No way would we win either one!That should be our expectation,be competitive no matter who we play.Back in the 80s when we were dominating the ACC,WE would have been very good in any conference,and could have won in any conference at that time!That is what we should expect now,JUST BE COMPETITIVE,no blowouts no embarrasments,good solid football,game in game out!
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Rock Defender [54]
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Point. Could not have said it better.***
Jun 8, 2012, 8:30 PM
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All-TigerNet [11435]
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Rock Defender [54]
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you
Jun 8, 2012, 9:04 PM
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are not bright.
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1st Rounder [649]
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No argument here, unfortunately someone....
Jun 8, 2012, 8:36 PM
[ in reply to Re: He had clear cut goals....and met them..... ] |
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seems to be hiding the magical switch that we just turn on and become an elite team. The past 2 seasons moves have been made to address what appeared to be the biggest issues from the season before. Please let me know what your foolproof blueprint is.
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All-American [554]
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Re: He had clear cut goals....and met them.....
Jun 8, 2012, 9:27 PM
[ in reply to Re: He had clear cut goals....and met them..... ] |
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I kno my opinion wont be welcomed here but pawz has the truth of it. Dabo has some inexplicable losses on his record. Some of you want to hold him up as this great recruiter and great coach. If he has sll this talent and is an excellent coach, where are the bad losses coming from? Either he is signing players who are not as good as their rating, he isnt developing talent, or he isnt good on gameday. Teams who have more talent and are very well coached beat the teams they are supposed to. They may slip up but not over and over. There has to be some explanation for the inconsistency but if anyone here points that out yall just stick your head in the sand and call them a coot. Seems eerily similar to our fans in the scott and holtz years.
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CU Medallion [55603]
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CU Medallion [55603]
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All-American [591]
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Re: OK, let's clear the air, shall we?
Jun 8, 2012, 4:11 PM
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***
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All-TigerNet [11435]
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dude people dont like you cause you bash Dabo every
Jun 8, 2012, 4:12 PM
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Post. You brought it on yourself so quit crying
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Hall of Famer [22965]
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he hates Dabo, Terry Don Phillips, Jim Barker, Jack Leggett,
Jun 8, 2012, 4:17 PM
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Oliver Purnell, Brad Brownell, Tommy Bowden, Joey Batson, the football coaching staff.......
yeah.....he's a biiiiiig Clemson supporter
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CU Medallion [55603]
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Re: he hates Dabo, Terry Don Phillips, Jim Barker, Jack Leggett,
Jun 8, 2012, 4:55 PM
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Heyyyyyy don't stop there. He hates all our A$$ES also!!!
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CU Medallion [58597]
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Orange Blooded [4787]
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Orange Blooded [4504]
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Orange Blooded [4787]
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Re: But he loves himself.***
Jun 8, 2012, 6:14 PM
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i'm not even 100% sure of that...
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CU Medallion [58597]
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And he's been caught in numerous lies and personal attacks
Jun 8, 2012, 5:00 PM
[ in reply to dude people dont like you cause you bash Dabo every ] |
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yet he continues to deny it, much less apoplogize. So, any time he complains about being bashed or flamed, it's pretty funny.
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All-TigerNet [11435]
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yeah its ok he can insult people but heaven for bid anyone
Jun 8, 2012, 8:25 PM
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Does it to him. If he wasn't an orange level donor he'd be gone like ohson is. But if you're a big donor you can insult Clemson all you want on here
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Aficionado [176]
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Re: yeah its ok he can insult people but heaven for bid anyone
Jun 8, 2012, 8:45 PM
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He is not insulting Clemson,he is just pointing to the facts,we are not anywhere close to being a great football program,we still drop way too many games to inferior teams.Maybe the Dabo love fest that many fans have is blinding you also!
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Legend [17791]
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Fail***
Jun 8, 2012, 4:14 PM
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Legend [16275]
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I thought maybe you'd f@rted but I see instead you really
Jun 8, 2012, 4:18 PM
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laid it into the cr@pper good.
Good luck.
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Legend [19210]
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Thats right! Let's clear it with some positive energy and
Jun 8, 2012, 4:21 PM
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karma.
GO TIGERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I know you are ready for a big, big season from the Tigers!
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All-TigerNet [11435]
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All-TigerNet [14751]
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Anyone have the cliffnotes?***
Jun 8, 2012, 4:24 PM
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All-TigerNet [11435]
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Re: Anyone have the cliffnotes?***
Jun 8, 2012, 4:30 PM
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I do
I hate Dabo, Leggett, Brownell, Barker, TDP and anyone who cant see the way I see, cause I am always right in my world.
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Legend [16275]
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Thanks.***
Jun 8, 2012, 4:48 PM
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Orange Blooded [4787]
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Re: Anyone have the cliffnotes?***
Jun 8, 2012, 5:31 PM
[ in reply to Re: Anyone have the cliffnotes?*** ] |
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i think that is the teachers edition.
Message was edited by: sgt tiger®
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Orange Blooded [2683]
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Respect
Jun 8, 2012, 4:30 PM
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I might not always agree with what you say, but I think you rationally explained your position. And I totally agree that it's ridiculous that you get bashed for having an opinion that's different from the crowd.
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All-TigerNet [11435]
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Re: Respect
Jun 8, 2012, 4:36 PM
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No he gets blasted for being a broken record, just saying the same crap everyday. No one can say anything positive about Dabo without him tearing them down and putting his broken record point of view in
Message was edited by: Bryanttiger®
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Rock Defender [54]
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DUDE, SHUT YOUR MOUTH!
Jun 8, 2012, 9:09 PM
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Good God, you're worse than he is.
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110%er [6321]
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Are you kidding me????
Jun 8, 2012, 4:54 PM
[ in reply to Respect ] |
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When someone disagrees with him...he starts the "all you idiots....you people are ignorant...pumpers"....and that gets old. He thinks he is the only one that can have an opinion and only his is correct. He tries to say that Clemson fans are happy, but can't show us one post that says that.
He is nothing but a trolling coot or a very bitter, never happy about ANYTHING half-assed Clemson fan. You almost have to feel sorry for him.
OK, I am over the feeling sorry part.
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CU Medallion [55603]
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Re: Are you kidding me????
Jun 8, 2012, 5:01 PM
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I kinda feel sorry that he hasn't left T-Net for EVER.
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Orange Blooded [4988]
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What's scarier than your opinion is that you think your
Jun 8, 2012, 4:30 PM
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world is reality.
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Orange Blooded [2253]
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D@mn I can't believe I read all of that.
Jun 8, 2012, 4:31 PM
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I was hoping for something other than fire Dabo unless he beats the coots. There was nothing specific about how to address the "situation". I don't know why I should have expected anymore though.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Wrong, I stated clear goals which peole say I never do which
Jun 8, 2012, 5:17 PM
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is false b/c I have several times. Also, it's not my job to tell Dabo how to fix it, but funny you wrote that since it is an admission by you that thing do need fixed, which most on TNET deny.
Even though it is not my job, I have in fact listed things numerous times in the past that we need to do to gt better. And today I mentioned the main issuee, our OL. But Here they are again.
1. Better fundamentals - less turnovers and penalties.
2. Examine why we are pushed around by smaller less talented teams and fix it.
3. Start concentrating on the OL. Fix it, all the flashy skill players in the wold fail w/out a solid OL.
4. Follow the advice of ex-players and listen to Steele and have tougher practices and do more hitting and tackling. Our defense needs it.
5. An examine why we have so many injuries and why our injured players stay injured so long and never fully recover.
Those are the things I would do.
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Orange Blooded [2253]
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Re: Wrong, I stated clear goals which peole say I never do which
Jun 8, 2012, 5:31 PM
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I used the word situation in quotation marks because YOU seem to there is a big problem. Not because I think there is a big problem. Now this last post is more along the lines of what I wanted to hear. Although I don't necessarily agree with all of them. Especially the part about listening to Steele ( ex players, yes but Steele, no ) If you had made this your original post I would not have had a problem with it. Thank you for making things that you want more specific.
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Rock Defender [54]
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My OP was what I wanted to write and what I think the issues
Jun 8, 2012, 6:02 PM
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are. It's not my job to offer solutions, but I did. Everything I wrote goes back to quality coaching, things quality coaches do. And I clearly pointed out the OL in the OP. Since you asked for "specific" detailed info, I gave that. Steele wanted to hit and tackle more in practice, he asked for that, Dabo said no. Clearly being tougher and better tackling would have helped us, ex-players agree. Steele can't fix things if the HC is holding his hands.
For the record, clearly there are problems, otherwise we would not have had a losing season in 2011, or had major coaching changes 2x in 3 years, or been blown out multiple time by teams with equal or less talent, or pushed around by smaller less talented teams. Anyone with eyes can see there are problems, issues. Are they fixed? Time will tell.
Not sure why folks think Dabo deserves so much praise. He made bad hires, then had to fire folks and make more hires. Then people praise him. I see changes that a better coach would not need to make cause he would have been smarter from the start. And anyone will make changes when their job is on the line. TB made multiple changes too. I'm old school, I think praise is reserved for doing something good, not fixing problem I created myself or simply doing my job.
If we didn't have a losing season in 2011 and beat USC and won our bowl games and had no blow outs, etc. I'd praise Dabo, but he has failures all over the place. His ONLY real accomplishment is winning the ACC, but when looking at his other multiple failings and looking at how weak the ACC is, I don't see a lot to cheer and celebrate and praise. If you haven't been laid in years then bag a fat chic at 2am I don't see anything to be excited about.
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Orange Blooded [2253]
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Re: My OP was what I wanted to write and what I think the issues
Jun 8, 2012, 6:07 PM
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Ok !! I was trying to be nice and diplomatic but if my saying thank you for explaining the "specifics" of what you want isn't enough then so be it. Continue on with your bitter life !!
Message was edited by: tiger49®
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Rock Defender [54]
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Dude chill. I'm being polite, i'm addressing your questions
Jun 8, 2012, 6:23 PM
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No OP is going to satisfy everyone and it was what I wanted to address. As a fan its not my responsibility to fix the problems, but it is my right to point out issues and demand better. You then asked for specifics on what I would do, so I did that. I pointed out the obvious issues and addressed how I'd fix them. And then I retorted we do have real issue otherwise this would not be such a hotly debated and polarizing topic on TNET.
The real issue is, we hired a 3rd consecutive coach that lacked enough experience and proven expertise to resolve our problems. That is no accident. Oddly our AD says we hired an outside firm and conducted a national search. Seriously? What could be more insulting to a fan base than to insult our intelligence in such a blatant way. No search firm would have suggested the hiring pattern we have had, nor suggested a career WR coach that wasn't even in coaching several years prior and that had no other suitors or experience. Our problems are coaching but the real issues are higher up. It's been an unwillingness to truly make winning a priority. I think that is changing with Wilkins. And there is no doubt in my mind that had Wilkins been in control 4 years ago like now, we'd have an entirely different head coach and a less polarized fan base.
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Orange Blooded [2826]
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Clear the air?
Jun 8, 2012, 4:32 PM
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That's got to be the longest brain f@rt I've ever heard.
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CU Guru [1660]
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Re: OK, let's clear the air, shall we?
Jun 8, 2012, 4:36 PM
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I never put words in your mouth, didn't even thumbs down you.
But you know your attitude of, I'm right and you're wrong gets a little old to adults who have experienced as much and in some cases more than you have.
As you said it's your opinion and mine is just as valid. So treat it with respect just like you would want to be treated.
Maybe a little different approach would make things a lot easier.
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Oculus Spirit [94262]
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OK, one question.
Jun 8, 2012, 4:38 PM
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Where is the ignore poster button?
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Heisman Winner [140918]
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WE NEED A POSTER, NOT A DABO ROA
***
Jun 8, 2012, 4:40 PM
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Heisman Winner [140918]
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WE NEED A POSTER, NOT A DABO ROASTER***
Jun 8, 2012, 4:41 PM
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Orange Blooded [4302]
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I think you did a good job of explaining your thoughts and
Jun 8, 2012, 4:43 PM
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expectations, but I'm not sure they are very realistic if you expect all of your numbered items to come true. I an envision us having a very successful season in which FSU beats us and runs the table, and therefore we do not even get to play in the ACC-CG.
Secondly, as much as it pains me to say it, USC is a better team the last two years than what TB played against. You point out that FSU was at their prime when TB first came here, then you should also accept the USC is fielding better teams than they ever did when Bowden was at Clemson. Again, I hate to admit it, but that is the truth.
Finally, my personal opinion is that you are too consumed with what a bunch of TNet posters are saying. Yes you get bashed a bunch, maybe even every time you post. But if you really are an optimist at heart, giving Dabo credit for winning the ACC, even if it is weaker, isn't too much of a stretch. We did kick VT butt twice last year while they ate our lunch under Bowden. Maybe VT has regressed a little, I'm sure that will be your take. But they are still a hard-nosed team and we took the fight to them, something we never saw under Bowden.
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Oculus Spirit [94262]
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I think Dabo has done a good job so far.
Jun 8, 2012, 4:48 PM
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I'm not meeting anyone in the middle on this cause I'm not giving an inch. Dabo has made us better! If it turns out in a couple of years that he was just a transitional coach like OPIE then he'll know it before we do just like OPIE.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Nice response, thanks, my thoughts by paragraph ....
Jun 8, 2012, 5:04 PM
[ in reply to I think you did a good job of explaining your thoughts and ] |
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1. True but we'd still play 13 games and should/could easily still go 12-1, or 11-2 which would be the same as 10-2 under Ford and Hatfield. We could still easily finish in the top 20 and win a good bowl game. VT played in a BCS game last year despite not winning the ACC. Bama lost to LSU and didn't win their division or play for the SEC title but still won the NC. That doesn't stop us from winning 10 or more games and getting into the 4 team playoff.
2. USC is not better in terms of talent. Go look up he recruiting rankings the past 7 to 10 years. With equal talent the difference is clear - coaching. Everybody loves to pump Dabo's recruiting and pardon the pun, crow about Dabo out recruiting Spurrier. OK great, then why isn't he beating Spurrier? We won the ACC, but lost to the 5th best team in the SEC. USC is mediocre.
And how do you explain the ACC champ getting owned by WV which finished in a 3-way tie in the lousy Big East?
3. You're probably right about that to a degree, but then, so are many on here.
Regarding VT, pretty much everyone agrees they have dropped off quite a bit since their peak, but have continued dominating the ACC because the ACC has been so weak. And last year VT wasn't very strong, but they had a joke of a schedule. We most probably would not be ACC champs without being helped by VT beating GT. IMO we would have lost again to GT in the ACCCG.
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Orange Blooded [4302]
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Ok, well let me retort.....
Jun 8, 2012, 5:27 PM
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1. My point was we could go 11-1, and not be in the ACC-CG. That would still be very successful. I agree that we should expect double digit win seasons almost every year, at least every other.
2. We will probably have to agree to disagree here, because you cannot convince me that Alshon, Lattimore, Clowney are not significant improvements over the players they had at these positions while Bowden was at CU. Yes, Lattimore didn't play last year.
3. VT may be down a little, but as you point out, they beat GT, which we didn't. Many times it comes down to match-ups and timing on the schedule.
All in all, I go back to what I said before. If you truly are optimistic at heart, I cannot fathom how you cannot give Dabo credit for doing what has not been done in 20 years. Maybe the ACC was weaker, but by what standard. Was it weaker compared to other conferences or were the teams in the ACC worse the last three years than they were the previous 7. Maybe FSU and Miami fall in that category, but Miami has never even sniffed the ACCCG.
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Rock Defender [54]
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OK .........
Jun 8, 2012, 5:43 PM
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1. I didn't say it wouldn't be a very successful year unless every goal was met. I didn't say EVERY goal had to be met EVERY year, but most of them should and the others very close. All of my stated goals are very achievable most years, but the obvious one that will be a hurdle is an improved FSU. As I pointed out, however, that is not a season killer. Besides, we are better than FSU now, why shouldn't we stay better or at least equal? If Dabo falls behind he's not getting the job done and needs to go.
2. It doesn't matter if USC has better talent now than before, so do we. If you look at the recruiting rankings, CU & USC are dead even over the past 7 to 10 years. That's all that matters, our talent vs. their talent. Why do they get more out of their talent than we do? Simple, better coaching. This ain't rocket science. Go look up the recruiting rankings yourself if you don't believe me.
3. We have out recruited GT & VT forever!! Yes, timing matters, so do match-ups, but we continually lose to GT b/c we have pathetic tackling. We pretty much hold GT in check, but they kill us on big plays. Typically a play where we had a guy in position but he missed the tackle.
Against GT but also others, we tend to settle too often for FGs after long drives, primarily b/c of our weak OL. And we turn the ball over too many times.
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CU Guru [1639]
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Re: OK, let's clear the air, shall we?
Jun 8, 2012, 4:47 PM
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So if I read this correctly, the only good coaches we have had are TB and RR and only reason TB was good is that he had Rich Rod. What I get from this is that RR is really the only good football coach we have ever had. If he was so great, what happened at Mischigan?
I know for a fact that RR started the decline in our O-Line. When he came , he ran our linemen down to 260-275 Lbs. per man. None of his linemen were pro material -too small. I had a customer in Georgia who had a son who was a 4+ star Offensive Tackle and wanted to go to Clemson. He was 305 in High School and 6'8". He was convinced by other schools in the SEC taht if he went to Clemson, Rich Rod would make him too small to play pro ball. He signed with Tenn. Was all-American and was a high 2nd round draft choice. This followed TB his whole career because we have not been able to get top O-Line. That's our rep. created by who you seem to think was our greatest coach.
BTW, if we have never had a decient coach in your eyes, not even Danny Ford, how do you rationalize such a high standard for Dabo. And before you say it, he is not the first Clemson coach to lose to USC 3 in a row. I can remember it happening. I have been a die hard Clemson fan since elementary school in the mid-50's so I have a lot more years invested in Clemson than you...
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Rock Defender [54]
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See this is a perfecy example of a TNET response ...........
Jun 8, 2012, 5:27 PM
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Not sure what you were reading, but here is what I wrote ...
"I don't even consider Ford "great", but he was very good, an excellent coach and great fit for Clemson, and our best football coach. The only two "great" coaches at Clemson, IMO, were Wilhelm and Ibrahim. Wilhelm didn't just build a baseball power at Clemson, but helped build college baseball in general and the ACC. Had he coached 5 more years I think his legacy would have been even greater. Ibrahim built Clemson into a national power, and like Wilhelm, helped develop soccer, esp in the ACC."
In nutshell I said Ford was excellent and our best FB HC. I said Wilhelm & Ibrahim were great.
Where is that incorrect?
The word "great" gets thrown around WAY too much in our society.
And for the record, it's obvious RR was the key to TB's success at Tulane and Clemson. Our best year under TB was his 2nd year. It was chaos after RR left.
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1st Rounder [649]
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How many National Titles did Wilhelm have?........
Jun 8, 2012, 6:46 PM
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if you are no longer judging coaches based on Championships. Well..then YOUR criteria is wrong. Sorry just the facts.
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Rock Defender [54]
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You obviously know nothing about Wilhelm's history, nor the
Jun 8, 2012, 6:49 PM
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history of baseball at Clemson, in the ACC, or NCAA.
Barry Switzer won a Super Bowl at Dallas in only his 2nd year as a pro coach. Is he great? No, of course not. Context is very important in any critical analysis.
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1st Rounder [649]
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Your right, I am not you, therefore, I know nothing....
Jun 8, 2012, 6:57 PM
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however if the expectations you set for other people are unobtainable, then you will be forever disappointed.
I am not in any way downplaying what Coach Wilhelm did, however it seems to me that you have different standards based on your personal opinion of the coaches.
Of course, context is important, however you can't define a persons goals based on elements beyond their control. We have NO way of knowing what might have happened if the ACC was better.
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Rock Defender [54]
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My standards are based on the context, the era, what they
Jun 8, 2012, 7:25 PM
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inherited, what they built, what they accomplished, their contributions to the ACC and the NCAA, and what they left the guy that followed them. Each sport will have a somewhat different standard. You can't use the same standard to judge the careers of guys in NASCAR, the IRL, and Formula 1.
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1st Rounder [649]
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Based on your criteria then...
Jun 8, 2012, 7:33 PM
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you can't judge how sucessful a coach is until their career is over, so by YOUR own admission your evaluation of Dabo is premature. Just sayin'
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Rock Defender [54]
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You can always evaluate. The AD evaulates coaches every year
Jun 8, 2012, 7:38 PM
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What you can't do is label someone great until they have achieved a high level of success over an extended period of time. You can, however, evaluate if they are on track to greatness or just infamy.
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1st Rounder [649]
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True, but if Ford wasn't a great Coach....
Jun 8, 2012, 7:50 PM
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then in my opinion there is nothing Dabo can do to prove himself to you.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Dabo has nothing to do with Ford. Dabo has been incredibly
Jun 8, 2012, 8:03 PM
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inconsistent. We had a losing season in 2011, had a lot of bad games and negatives last year. To even suggest Dabo is going to be great or even very good at this point is nonsensical.
Ford isn't great b/c he lost way too many games to far inferior teams. Was he very very good? Yes, absolutely, the best we ever had. But no one outside of Clemson is going to confuse Danny Ford as a "GREAT" head coach. Not gonna happen. They may say he was a "great" coach in conversation, but that's how people talk, they don't mean he was one of college footballs greatest coaches.
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1st Rounder [649]
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Seems to me you put way too much stock in.....
Jun 8, 2012, 8:29 PM
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the perception of people outside of Clemson. Just a tip, noone who is a fan of another team is ever going to respect your team more than their own. The only fans I concern myself with, are the ones of the teams we are playing and their opinion only matters one saturday a year.
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Rock Defender [54]
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There are these things called sports writers, polls, etc.
Jun 8, 2012, 8:32 PM
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How we do OOC is very very important. The ACC sucks. Stop fooling yourself.
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1st Rounder [649]
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Once again not new info to me....
Jun 8, 2012, 8:40 PM
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but the ACC is the conference we are in, we can't win the SEC from here. Thus we have come full circle to why we need out of the ACC. If we have the chance to go, we should go to the BIG12 otherwise we won't ever become relevant again.
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Rock Defender [54]
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I certainly agree with that. Cheers.***
Jun 8, 2012, 8:42 PM
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1st Rounder [649]
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Joined: 9/30/08
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Nice discussion!!! I enjoy a good debate every .....
Jun 8, 2012, 8:46 PM
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once in a while!
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Rock Defender [54]
TigerPulse: 90%
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Agree, most on here argue with emotions rather than facts or
Jun 8, 2012, 9:01 PM
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tangible information. It's like arguing with liberals. All emotion, no substance.
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110%er [6321]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 5728
Joined: 11/2/08
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Again...I will be so glad...
Jun 8, 2012, 4:50 PM
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when you are our football, baseball and basketball coach. You are so #### smart, we would win the Nat'l champs in all three every year. Can't wait...whoo hoo
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Rock Defender [52]
TigerPulse: 44%
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Joined: 3/29/12
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I think you are spot on for the most part ! Good Post
Jun 8, 2012, 4:57 PM
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I think caddy makes some very legitimate points in this post. I honestly believe that he loves Clemson and only wants to see us be what we would all like for us to be. Tnetters tend to bash anyone who is not all sunshine and agreeing that Dabo is great etc.......well that is just ridiculous. The fact is that the ACC is weak and we should expect to win it more often than not. But winning the ACC alone does not qualify you as a great team by a long stretch. We do exhibit a lot of the ### moments that we showed under TB. Remember getting drilled by a 5-5 NC State team ? Or losing 4 of the last 6 ? Giving up 70 in the Orange Bowl ? Yes Dabo is certainly doing some good things and deserves credit. But that does not mean you shouldn't call out what needs improvement....isn't that how you get better ? You have to focus on what is not working to fix it. Isn't that what we all want, to be the best kick A team that Clemson can be. Just because you call out the things that need attention, the things that are negative certainly does not mean you are not a fan. Like Caddy and most of you, I love Clemson and want to win and win big. I am tired of seeing a soft team, tired of seeing an O-Line that cannot blow Wake off the ball, tired of a defense that cannot shut people down, tired of having to have a miracle comeback to beat a MD team that won all of 2 games. And I am really tired of losing to scar and not only losing but losing big to them. It is hard to win every game and no matter how good you are, likely you will lose to an "inferior" team here and there. But there is a difference in losing and looking like a bad team. In the 4 losses last year, we looked like a bad team. With the ACC as it is, there is no reason we should not win 9 games at a minimum every year. But again, that alone will not make us the great team that we all want Clemson to be. So here's to Caddy for simply wanting Clemson to be what Clemson was during that glorious 14 year that was the Ford era. A team that was feared and a team that showed a toughness and a greatness that we have not had since. I submit to you that if Clemson had more fans like Caddy that demand greatness we would not have gone 20 years without a conference title.
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All-TigerNet [11435]
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20 yrs? try 1969***
Jun 8, 2012, 4:59 PM
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Rock Defender [52]
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Joined: 3/29/12
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Re: 20 yrs? try 1969***
Jun 8, 2012, 5:27 PM
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Bryanttiger, if u are insinuating I am a coot then whatever. I have 3 degrees from Clemson and attended my first Clemson game in 1967 when Frank Howard broke out the now famous orange shoes vs a ranked NC State team. I have had season tickets since finishing my undergrad degree in 1978 and attend all home games as well as a couple of away games each year. So please just stop on the coot crap already.
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Rock Defender [54]
TigerPulse: 90%
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Joined: 11/30/98
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Welcome to my world. rationality and the truth will not be
Jun 8, 2012, 6:25 PM
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tolerated here. Anything other than praise for Dabo gets you labeled a coot.
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110%er [6321]
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Joined: 11/2/08
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even if you agree with his points...
Jun 8, 2012, 5:02 PM
[ in reply to I think you are spot on for the most part ! Good Post ] |
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do good points give him the right to call anyone that disagrees with him names and then in a post ask for people not to call him out.
He can dish it out, but can't take it.
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Rock Defender [54]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
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I rarely insult anyone unless they insult me 1st and if you
Jun 8, 2012, 6:34 PM
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actually paid more attention you'd see I often am not calling someone stupid but saying what they wrote was stupid. There is a huge difference.
People that celebrate an ACC title while ignoring the blow outs, the poor play on the field, all the coaching changes, etc. and recognize we have equal or better talent than those we play but lose to, to ignore such blatant issues while celebrating a weak ACC title and singing the coaches praises is in fact delusional, it's a complete denial of the big picture.
Calling an idiot an idiot isn't an insult, some people need a reality check. Unfortunately TNET is run by the inmates.
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110%er [6321]
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OMG...you didn't go there...
Jun 8, 2012, 7:12 PM
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let's address your last sentence...
Calling me an idiot for posting facts is a personal attack
Posted: Jun 30, 2011 2:59 AM Reply
But I don't feel the need to run to Crump. I'm pretty sure I'm man enough to handle it
http://www.tigernet.com/forums/thread.jspa?forumID=93&threadID=974234&messageID=10680281#10680281
Now for the rest
I've done my fair share of calling people stupid, moron, idiot, and worse on TNET, but I have NEVER attacked anyone personally for their religious beliefs.
http://www.tigernet.com/forums/message.jspa?messageID=9342490
Honestly, if a kid makes his choice based on fan websites,
Posted: May 15, 2010 1:42 AM Reply
he's an idiot!
http://www.tigernet.com/forums/thread.jspa?forumID=93&threadID=843939&messageID=9082003#9082003
POINT! I'll concede your rules technicality error in regard to my discussion. Let me reword for morons like you that become obsessed with any tiny detail regardless of how immaterial to the actual >/i?
http://www.tigernet.com/forums/thread.jspa?forumID=93&threadID=857988&messageID=9228556#9228556
I will stop now....my allotment of bandwidth is about used up in this post
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Hall of Famer [22965]
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Joined: 6/24/99
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Re: OMG...you didn't go there...
Jun 8, 2012, 7:17 PM
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"Calling an idiot an idiot isn't an insult, some people need a reality check. Unfortunately TNET is run by the inmates"
its always been his modus operandi. Insult someone and then when they other poster replies in kind, he claims the role of victim.......
blue_caddy is a very small individual who obviously doesn't read his own posts...or expects everyone else to play by two sets of rules.
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Rock Defender [54]
TigerPulse: 90%
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Joined: 11/30/98
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Thanks, Jim. And we did have more fans like that, which is
Jun 8, 2012, 6:08 PM
[ in reply to I think you are spot on for the most part ! Good Post ] |
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why Hatfield was run out of town, but sadly things have changed. Our fan base is woefully apathetic and somehow being a good person gets you praised as a god coach.
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Freshman [5]
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Joined: 11/20/11
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Air is clear
Jun 8, 2012, 5:05 PM
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I thought it was well written. Why all the hate?
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Rock Defender [54]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
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No hate. None at all. I'm simply very direct. And very
Jun 8, 2012, 6:39 PM
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frustrated with an apathetic fan base that is very much part of the problem. If there is any hate it's hating the constant personal assault on me by folks that ignore the big picture or obvious issues. If it comes across as bitter or angry that is not my intent, it's simply my direct style fueled by frustration, and also a lot of misinterpretation by those not open to my opinions.
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Hall of Famer [21621]
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You lost me at "lowcountry." Ew***
Jun 8, 2012, 5:13 PM
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Starter [386]
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Joined: 2/13/12
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Re: OK, let's clear the air, shall we?
Jun 8, 2012, 5:44 PM
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Coot
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CU Guru [1662]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Epic fail.
Jun 8, 2012, 5:59 PM
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Looking forward to your lack of posts
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All-TigerNet [14506]
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Posts: 22945
Joined: 11/30/98
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Re: OK, let's clear the air, shall we?
Jun 8, 2012, 6:35 PM
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wow just wow. groundhog day times 4.
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Team Captain [459]
TigerPulse: 84%
Posts: 816
Joined: 9/7/04
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I read the whole thing, and I respect your opinions,
Jun 8, 2012, 6:37 PM
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but I have a legitimate question for you. You want Dabo to win 11+ games in 2 straight seasons. You do realize that Clemson has only had 3 such seasons in our entire history, correct? Don't mistake this for me encouraging mediocrity, but I think your expectations are a little too high given our past.
Also, I've done a little research. Since Dabo became the full time head coach (2009), there are only 11 teams that have accomplished back-to-back 11-win seasons. That's only 9.2% of teams in the nation.
Those teams are:
Boise State (Chris Petersen): 2008-11
TCU (Gary Patterson): 2008-11
Northern Illinois (Jerry Kill/Dave Doeren): 2010-11
Oregon (Chip Kelly): 2010-11
Stanford (Jim Harbaugh/David Shaw): 2010-11
Virginia Tech (Frank Beamer): 2010-11
LSU (Les Miles): 2010-11
Ohio State (Jim Tressel): 2009-10
Wisconsin (Bret Bielema): 2010-11
Michigan State (Mark Dantonio): 2010-11
Oklahoma State (Mike Gundy): 2010-11
Breaking it down further, the first three teams listed aren't or weren't in BCS conferences over the past three seasons, so they play significantly weaker schedules.
Stanford accomplished the feat with two head coaches and never won or appeared in the conference championship game.
Virginia Tech didn't win the conference championship in 2011, and was blown out by Clemson twice. They also lost their bowl game both seasons, including a 28-point loss to Stanford in 2010.
Ohio State was busted for cheating and had to forfeit games. They also didn't win the conference in 2010.
Michigan State hasn't won the conference either year.
LSU didn't win their conference championship, or appear in it, in 2010. They were also blown off the ball by Alabama in the 2011 National Championship.
Oklahoma State didn't win their conference in 2010 and they had a let down loss to Iowa State last year.
Wisconsin won the Big Ten both years, but lost their BCS bowls both seasons.
Oregon won their conference both years, but lost to Ohio State in the Rose Bowl the first year.
Basically, I wrote all of this to show you that no team completely meets the expectations you've set forth. I think you need to dial it down a notch. But they are your opinions and you are entitled to those.
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Rock Defender [54]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
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You are missing the obvious. Playing 12 game regular seasons is
Jun 8, 2012, 7:18 PM
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relatively new. Winning 11 now is akin to winning 10 before. Between 1978 and 1990 (13 seasons) we had seasons of ...
11-1 = .917
12-0 = 1.0
9-1-1 = .864
9-1-1 = .864
10-2 = .833
10-2 = .833
10-2 = .833
10-2 = .833
That's 8 out of 13.
The two 9 win seasons would have been 10 win seasons had there be instant replay. We were blatantly robbed on poor calls by the refs on turnovers. Also, thanks to probation we didn't get to go to bowl games those two years and back then we actually won our bowl games. Finally, look at the winning percentages.
Those 9-1-1 and 10-2 years were really good, but people were also frustrated because they could have easily been better as each had games we absolutely positively should have won.
We now play 12 game regular seasons every year with 2 cupcakes on top of an easy ACC schedule, plus a possible ACCCG, plus a bowl game. That's a minimum of 13 games, possibly 14.
11/13 = .846
11/14 = .786
This past season we were 10-4 = .714
Everyone agrees this year is not where we want to be, but on the road to getting there. So according to the numbers, what I'm saying should be the expectation is very much in line with where we were and very achievable.
Winning percentages tell the story. What I want is very realistic. Not every year, but most years.
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Team Captain [459]
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Posts: 816
Joined: 9/7/04
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I was born in '84, so I obviously don't remember those years
Jun 8, 2012, 7:58 PM
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but wasn't the ACC weaker back then than it is now? Florida State wasn't in the league, and obviously Miami, VT, and BC weren't either.
I'm not trying to start anything, I'm just curious. I want us to win that many games, but I just don't think it's realistic to expect it all that often. Some of the best programs in the country don't even do it consistently. It had been 20 seasons since we had double digit wins. So, while I want us to beat USC, that is progress in the right direction. I do see similarities between Dabo and Bowden, but Dabo went out and got an awesome OC, something Bowden didn't do. You have to at least give credit where it's due in that regard.
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Rock Defender [54]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
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We played VT, FSU, BC, UGa,, OK, Penn St. back then. We
Jun 8, 2012, 8:28 PM
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played UGa every year, VT most years, BC with Flutie at QB in '82 and '83. FSU in '88 and '89. Beat OK, Penn State, a very good Illinois, and the best WV team ever with Major Harris at QB in bowl games.
During the 80s NC State had Sherridan, GT and MD had stints with Bobby Ross. Maryland had more QBs in the NFL during the 80s n 90s than FSU and Miami. During the 80s it was not uncommon for GT, MD, UNC, and even NC State to be ranked in the top 20. There was no top 25 back then, nor 12 game regular seasons.
Don't listen to revisionist history. The ACC was by no means great, but it was as good if not at times better than the ACC has been the last few years. The ACC has been at an all time low the past few years.
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Rock Defender [54]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
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Evidently you were not reading. I pointed out that TB failed
Jun 8, 2012, 8:37 PM
[ in reply to I was born in '84, so I obviously don't remember those years ] |
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to get a good replacement for RR and gave Dabo credit for getting Morris. I've written these things many times.
We won 10 games this year and everyone agrees we can and should be doing better, even you. So isn't that winning at least 10 or 11 games every year? Isn't that what I'm asking for? You're contradicting yourself.
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Oculus Spirit [81998]
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2240 words...***
Jun 8, 2012, 6:41 PM
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Orange Blooded [2557]
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Posts: 3678
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LOL! TU***
Jun 8, 2012, 7:14 PM
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110%er [6977]
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Posts: 9225
Joined: 7/11/03
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I'm an '89 grad and I'm with you brother! Very well said!***
Jun 8, 2012, 7:14 PM
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Rock Defender [54]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
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Thanks.***
Jun 8, 2012, 7:39 PM
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Rock Defender [54]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
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^^1987 USuC Grad...
Jun 8, 2012, 9:26 PM
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I S S U E S.
Nobody you say you know has ever heard of you. None of them. We've been through this numerous times. Did you forget?
Your entire 2,000 word post is nothing but a fictional story. Something is wrong with you.
Carry on.
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