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Legend [7048]
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Why using the portal is necessary
Nov 13, 2022, 11:00 AM
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Andrew Booth (NFL)
Frank Ladson (transferred)
Joseph Ngata (average)
Will Putnam (good)
Sheridan Jones (good)
Tyler Davis (great)
Joseph Charleston (transferred)
Bryton Constantin (retired)
Taisun Phommachanh (transferred)
Chez Mellusi (transferred)
Vonta Bentley (backup)
Jaelyn Lay (transferred)
Kane Patterson (transferred)
Logan Cash (retired)
Keith Maguire (backup)
Tayquon Johnson (retired)
Jalyn Phillips (average)
Etinosa Reuben (backup)
Hunter Rayburn (retired)
Brannon Spector (backup)
Greg Williams (backup)
Ray Thornton (transferred)
Ruke Orhorhoro (good)
Lannden Zanders (retired)
Davis Allen (good)
Mikey Dukes (transferred)
Kaleb Boateng (transferred)
Aidan Swanson (average)
Mason Trotter (suspended)
That’s 29 total signees
7/29 will play in the NFL (24%)
19/29 transferred, retired, or were career backups (66%)
We simply cannot afford to sign another class this bad in the portal era.
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Orange Blooded [2280]
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Re: Why using the portal is necessary
Nov 13, 2022, 11:12 AM
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As a top program, you can cherry pick talent. No need for wholesale transfers. Top companies do this all day long and “somehow” maintain culture that transcends the going and coming of people.
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Tiger Titan [46595]
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Define top program.***
Nov 13, 2022, 11:26 AM
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Clemson Conqueror [11222]
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Re: Define top program.***
Nov 13, 2022, 11:34 AM
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One that played in four national championships and won two, in the past seven years.
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Tiger Titan [46595]
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So you’re just ignoring the last two years? LOL.***
Nov 13, 2022, 11:36 AM
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Clemson Conqueror [11222]
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Re: So you’re just ignoring the last two years? LOL.***
Nov 13, 2022, 11:38 AM
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That is the very definition of a top program.
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Tiger Titan [46595]
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The definition of a top program is one that was among the top four teams
Nov 13, 2022, 4:34 PM
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several years ago but not anymore?
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Tiger Titan [47975]
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COOT***
Nov 13, 2022, 10:09 PM
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Recruit [97]
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Re: COOT***
Nov 13, 2022, 10:24 PM
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Who are you? JK is an institution on this site. I've never heard of you in my life.
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110%er [5684]
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Tiger Titan [46595]
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I knew I could count on you to bring up basketball
Nov 13, 2022, 9:29 PM
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since you can’t handle taking about football’s issues.
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Commissioner [1210]
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Tiger Titan [46595]
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Adjusting parameters?
Nov 13, 2022, 9:30 PM
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Looking at the most recent evidence as I’m doing isn’t adjusting parameters. Talking about past successes from several years ago is, however.
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National Champion [7350]
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You are the worst of the troll shitstains.
Nov 13, 2022, 9:56 PM
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9-1 Einstein after 10 games. On the way to our next:
1.Conference Championship.
2.10+ WIN Season!
3.CFP still a possibility.No matter how slim, it is there until it isn't.
4.At Worst a Top Bowl Game not related to the CFP.
5.Read slowly..."CFP or Bust" does not define who we are! Or Keep us from being a Top program as witnessed under Coach Swinney.
Dabo Swinney 2 Nattys
Career Record: 15 Years, 159-37, .811 Win%
Bowl Record: 18 Games, 11-7, .611 Win%
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Tiger Titan [46595]
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What on earth does that have to do with this thread?
Nov 14, 2022, 1:31 AM
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If you’re content funding our program like a top 4 program, even though it currently isn’t one, and slipping farther behind the elite teams, then you should probably sit this one out.
This thread is for those of us who believe we can return to elite status, but feel that Dabo will need to start using the transfer portal more in order for that to happen.
Thanks for coming out!
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CU Medallion [19046]
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Re: Define top program.***
Nov 13, 2022, 11:41 AM
[ in reply to Define top program.*** ] |
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Alabama pulled in some nice portal finds including WRs Burton out of GA, and Harrell out of Louisville, cornerback Ricks (LSU), and an OT from Vandy. So Cal got the Pitt WR and Caleb Williams (not back to elite yet but on the rise), Texas got their QB from OSU, Michigan got an All-American Center out of VA, etc. Good programs are finding top talent through the portal.
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Clemson Icon [27997]
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If we're talking Men's basketball...
Nov 13, 2022, 12:22 PM
[ in reply to Define top program.*** ] |
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Duke, Carolina, Kentucky, Kansas, Villanova
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Paw Warrior [4709]
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Heisman Winner [78357]
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But do post the full scope of the portal.
Nov 13, 2022, 4:46 PM
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How many players entered and never got picked up? How many of the players in the portal had more of a reason to transfer than not getting "enough" playing time? How many were discipline problems or a problem in the locker room? Don't redact the good stuff now.
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Paw Warrior [4709]
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Re: But do post the full scope of the portal.
Nov 13, 2022, 10:27 PM
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blood,
There are plenty of problems with the portal, but i think the question on the table was about whether the portal could help us compete at the highest levels.
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Tiger Titan [46595]
TigerPulse: 78%
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It certainly could help us, but Dabo won’t do it.
Nov 14, 2022, 1:32 AM
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Because culture.
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CU Guru [1543]
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Ultimate Tiger [38955]
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CU Medallion [19046]
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Rival Killer [2664]
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Re: Why using the portal is necessary
Nov 13, 2022, 12:46 PM
[ in reply to Re: Why using the portal is necessary ] |
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Not sure I understand you right, but I’m reading this as top companies can solely hire entry level talent and don’t need to hire experienced people from other companies?
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Orange Elite [5550]
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Recruit [97]
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Re: Why using the portal is necessary
Nov 13, 2022, 10:24 PM
[ in reply to Re: Why using the portal is necessary ] |
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Have you watched our recruiting the past 3 years? We are NOT cherry-picking talent any more.
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Heisman Winner [107405]
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Necessary because of that? No. Can it be useful & a boon...
Nov 13, 2022, 11:23 AM
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Absolutely.
And Dabo has said it will be used where and when needed. He's always taken transfers, to say otherwise is a lie. I understand if some want or desire more, that's OK. It is a two-way street, the staff offered at least one from the Portal this ~last cycle.
The thing interesting to me about "changes" as it pertains to Clemson is how easy it "appears"[now] to lose "experience" in practice, those that know the routine, on the field & off, are also tasked to pay it forward as those before them.
Whether you replace that with talented freshmen or delve into the Portal[a name for of list of transfers that has always existed] that seem more mercenary than All-In, the "hole" in the culture remains until it is filled by time. In defense of those mercenaries, they've spent time in a college S&C program and have somewhat managed the transition from HS, living at home, and the rigors of being alone and on their "own". Their motives, ~vindication & conviction should be questioned.
I'd personally rather build with those that have 5 to play 4, than 1, 2 or few and doners, but maybe that's just me.
Dabo has used the Prep route in the past & he was at the forefront of driving Clemson Academia to create the programs needed to accept JUCOs, if and/or when needed.
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CU Medallion [19046]
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Heisman Winner [107405]
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Re: Necessary because of that? No. Can it be useful & a boon...
Nov 13, 2022, 12:14 PM
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Yes, when needed, deserved and/or earned. At the quarterback position alone...
Nick Schuessler, Scholarship QB from Grayson, committed to Miss. State after Clemson stopped pursuing him when Chad Kelly committed. Left Miss. State & committed as a PWO, might as well call him a grey-shirt, because of the short detour in his journey to Clemson. He went on to beat out theChad's hand-picked 4*, KB2 and provide much needed security for Clemson after Chad Kelly was dismissed, earning the #2 spot behind DW4.
David Olson transfer from Stanford, scholarship QB transfer after Chad "CapriSun" Kelly was shown the door. Kelly's dismissal left a huge hole in CU's depth, Olson a perfect, 1-year insurance policy and easy scholarship to fill w/ Kelly's open.
Hunter Johnson, not that long ago, but apparently to some, too long ago to remember? He's on scholarship.
All of these have met needs, fit the culture, as Dabo has remained consistent in his message, whether through Prep, JUCO, transfer or Portal, Dabo has always done what is best & needed in his eyes for his team and the Clemson program.
I value critical conversations, but people that hide their knee-jerk emotions behind the moniker of "constructive criticism" mostly don't really know what that means. Much of what I read here, is entitlement driven and that entitlement just does not exist. Hopefully folks learn to be better, there's always a place for reasoned conversation, it's when emotion & entitlement replace reason, that things get sideways.
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Legend [7048]
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Re: Necessary because of that? No. Can it be useful & a boon...
Nov 13, 2022, 1:39 PM
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Getting transfers to come be backup QBs isn’t going to help. We need actual transfers that can come fill weak spots on the roster.
We signed Cole Turner late, when we could have picked someone up in the portal to make our WR room better this year.
We signed Myles Oliver late, when we could have picked someone up in the portal to make our CB room better this year.
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Heisman Winner [107405]
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Clearly those were determined weak spots and/or needs...
Nov 13, 2022, 1:52 PM
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I do not expect that to ever change.
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All-TigerNet [10825]
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Orange Blooded [2992]
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This article is false! I can think of 2 transfers quickly.
Nov 13, 2022, 9:43 PM
[ in reply to Re: Necessary because of that? No. Can it be useful & a boon... ] |
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Hunter Johnson QB
Dom Thomas RB, he was the freshman All-Conference in the FCS school he played for, don't remember name but he is the young man that lost his family in a tornado last year.
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Letterman [290]
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Game Day Hero [4174]
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Re: Why using the portal is necessary
Nov 13, 2022, 11:32 AM
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So, based on your list.
9 transferred. Of those 9 - which ones are great players who would be starting for Clemson today - making a difference?
So, those are highly ranked recruits who decided they did not like being down the depth chart and wanted to play.
Do you not think that this is the same for virtually every school?
Sure, there are a very few anomalies. Very few.
How many 4 or 5 star quality players will leave their school where they are not getting playing time and come to Clemson to be a backup?
Again, yes a few. Where did they go? Couple to Bama, a couple to Ohio state, etc. teams needing everything like FSU or Mich state a couple of years ago, could bring in lots of people and no waiting.
It looked like we tried for a couple last year and missed.
Bringing in several 1 year players is not a good strategy. IMO anyway. Perhaps a couple if they fit well.
I appreciate your list, I don’t necessarily agree with your rankings. Not all players will be stars. Do the same rankings for Bama, Ohio state etc. would be interesting to see top 5 teams and their “hit” rate.
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Tiger Titan [46595]
TigerPulse: 78%
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At some point, it becomes a math problem.
Nov 13, 2022, 11:33 AM
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If players transferring out the exceed the players who transfer in, we are only left with a couple of options:
-Sign larger recruiting classes to compensate
-Give walk-ons scholarships to compensate
Otherwise, we have unused scholarships.
Expecting most high school players to come in and contribute as freshmen in college is expecting a lot. The Deshaun Watson, Trevor Lawrence, Sammy Watkins type players are rare.
On the other hand, there are players in the transfer portal who are talented but also more experienced, and can theoretically help us immediately.
People who are against us using the portal need to re-evaluate their stance in my opinion/
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Clemson Icon [27009]
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Re: At some point, it becomes a math problem.
Nov 13, 2022, 12:36 PM
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Expecting most high school players to come in and contribute as freshmen in college is expecting a lot.
Antonio Williams, Blake Miller, Jayden Lukus, Woodaz, and Torino Pride all say hi. As did Mafah, Shipley, Makuba, and Trotter last year.
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Tiger Titan [46595]
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Those players aren’t difference makers to get us to the playoffs this year.
Nov 13, 2022, 9:33 PM
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But a few good players from the portal might’ve been.
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Tiger Titan [49969]
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Re: Why using the portal is necessary
Nov 13, 2022, 11:58 AM
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We’re 9-1 & Alabama is 8-2 And practically out of the conference championship game.
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CU Medallion [18512]
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I like our guys, but there might be some guys that would fit
Nov 13, 2022, 12:52 PM
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well available. Need the Higgins/Ross type at receiver in a big way. Could use a CB as well. I still think we need a punter. While Bama has lost a couple this year, then two teams in the SEC championship use the portal.
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Tiger Titan [46595]
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We would have at least 3 losses right now if we had Alabama’s schedule.
Nov 13, 2022, 4:38 PM
[ in reply to Re: Why using the portal is necessary ] |
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Alabama would likely be undefeated right now if they played our schedule.
Nice try though.
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Commissioner [1232]
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Re: We would have at least 3 losses right now if we had Alabama’s schedule.
Nov 13, 2022, 5:04 PM
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That is pure conjecture on your part, you have no idea what Alabama's record would be if they had played our schedule. They lost to LSU who lost to FSU who we beat. That doesn't mean we could beat LSU though, it's just as pointless of a statistic as your comment.
Dabo's stance on the transfer portal is simple, for everyone he takes out of the portal, that's a scholarship lost to a HS student. He tried to get a couple of players last year, OL from VA comes to mind as one example but was unsuccessful.
Look at the numbers in the portal. For every 'stud' in there, there's 100 that are backups looking to start somewhere else. Most of those would not come to Clemson and start, so why waste a scholarship on them except when it's to provide needed depth, which Dabo has shown a willingness to do? Most of the 'studs' in the transfer portal are there to go to a specific school, not shopping around like Caleb Williams. He knew when he entered he was headed to USC. Slovis entered knowing he was going to Pitt, the RB from GT knew he was headed to Alabama. Name 1 portal player that had an open recruitment that was better than the player on Clemson he'd be replacing.
There's a reason why over 3k players entered the portal last year and less than 1k were re-signed by a new team.
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Tiger Titan [46595]
TigerPulse: 78%
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The repeated attempts to defend Dabo on this are lame.
Nov 13, 2022, 9:40 PM
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He has spent significant portions of interview time ranting about the transfer portal, and how it goes against his philosophy. He’s made a few token attempts to get a player from the portal, but has made it clear that he believes the players he has recruited are better.
I’m aware of the stats on players entering the portal. I realize that many enter the portal and end up in a worse situation. That’s sad, but it has nothing to do with Clemson. We could be using the portal to fill needs. As uncomfortable as it might be to acknowledge, we have needs. We don’t simply have backups who can come in and do better than a struggling starter.
Of course taking a player from the portal is a risk, but so is bringing in an guy from high school. You do your research and hope he’s a good fit.
It’s too bad Dabo hasn’t gone “all in” on the portal. Whether we like it or not, the portal is here to stay and the longer we refuse to use it, the more we will get left behind.
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Commissioner [1210]
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In order to offset the TP outbound net losses...
Nov 13, 2022, 5:26 PM
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the quickest and most efficient tool available is by accessing inbound TP lane with a well prepped, hyper informed perspective regarding potential available personnel-
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Clemson Icon [26917]
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Lets look at it another way.
Nov 13, 2022, 9:35 PM
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25 ships per year.
5 years of eligibility.
That's 125 ships.
NCAA limit is 85 ships.
Therefore if you don't have attrition, by year 4 you will only be able to sign 10 players and on year five you could sign 0 players.
You need 40 of 125 to leave the program before their eligibility is up. That's 32%. If you sign 25 players, on average you need 8 of them to leave early.
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Legend [7062]
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Re: Why using the portal is necessary
Nov 13, 2022, 9:43 PM
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I think we have to pursue at least one WR in the portal. Have to find a speed guy to balance out Williams. WR is one position that a transfer can come in and play right away
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Asst Coach [805]
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Re: Why using the portal is necessary
Nov 13, 2022, 9:51 PM
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I feel like we are lacking in three areas from being a really good top four team. QB, WR, and OC. Our defense is not great this year but good enough to be a top four football team with better offensive production.
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All-Pro [686]
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Re: Why using the portal is necessary
Nov 14, 2022, 1:13 AM
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I wonder how much run Ladson would have had this year if he stuck around?
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