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Top TigerNet [32647]
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Why is wine a symbol
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Nov 26, 2023, 9:10 PM
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Of the blood of Christ? His first miracle, he turned water into wine. In that he made something unclean into something that was clean.
Is it color? Is it being compared to the "blood" of the Earth?
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Top TigerNet [30354]
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google "The Last Supper" ... that should answer your question.***
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Nov 26, 2023, 9:14 PM
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Top TigerNet [32647]
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Re: google "The Last Supper" ... that should answer your question.***
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Nov 26, 2023, 9:18 PM
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Perhaps you can express it
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Top TigerNet [30354]
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...
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Nov 26, 2023, 9:36 PM
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Matthew 26:26-29 While they were eating, Jesus took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to his disciples, saying, "Take and eat; this is my body." Then he took the cup, gave thanks and offered it to them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you. This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. I tell you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it anew with you in my Father's kingdom."
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Top TigerNet [32647]
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Re: ...
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Nov 26, 2023, 9:41 PM
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See the original question
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Top TigerNet [30354]
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Why would water be "unclean" in your question ?***
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Nov 26, 2023, 9:55 PM
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Top TigerNet [32647]
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Re: Why would water be "unclean" in your question ?***
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Nov 26, 2023, 10:10 PM
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Because he used cleansing mugs
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Top TigerNet [32647]
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Dynasty Maker [3501]
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Re: Why is wine a symbol
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Nov 26, 2023, 10:05 PM
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It wasn’t real wine it was Welch’s grape juice.
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Top TigerNet [32158]
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Re: Why is wine a symbol
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Nov 27, 2023, 2:49 AM
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Sometimes folks forget just how Jewish Jesus was. And since he viewed his death as the ultimate and final sacrifice and offering to God, the symbology of his death is reflective of a typical Jewish sacrifice in some ways.
There were several types of Jewish sacrifices, and Jesus was well aware of all of them. He was in Jerusalem to celebrate the Passover Festival specifically when he was arrested. There were regular burnt offerings, a peace offering, a guilt offering, a sin offering, etc., in addition to seasonal and annual Festival and Holiday offerings. Many, many, types of offerings and sacrifices depending on the need or occasion. Plus, there were food offerings, wine offerings, and of course, money offerings.
Since blood and meat were essential to most offerings (sacrifices were kind of a daily, community picnic for God, and most of the meat was eaten...that which wasn't burned for God), Jesus associated the blood and meat with wine and bread.
So as odd as it seems, even though Jesus's D&R ended the need for actual ongoing sacrifices, Communion is sort of an ongoing symbolic sacrifice. Every time one ritually takes of the bread and wine, they are in effect ritually recognizing that blood and meat are no longer necessary for salvation. So a perpetual Jewish ritual has been replaced with a perpetual Christian symbolic one. Communion is a great ritual that nicely shows the Jewish roots to Christianity.
The eating of the bread is a direct symbolic connection with eating the animal sacrifices. But the blood is a bit different. Drinking blood was (and still is) a major taboo for the Jews. So why did Jesus make that connection with wine? Idk.
But my guess is this. Blood was also considered the life-giving force in many early religions. So since Jesus was promising eternal life by faith in him, substituting wine for blood was a good way to symbolize his ability to give eternal life to a believer.
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Campus Hero [13336]
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He was only Jewish
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Nov 27, 2023, 7:17 AM
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on his mother's side.
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National Champion [7136]
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Re: Why is wine a symbol
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Nov 28, 2023, 9:28 PM
[ in reply to Re: Why is wine a symbol ] |
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It was a good way to make His mother happy and make some wine. Nothing more.
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Re: Why is wine a symbol
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Nov 29, 2023, 7:09 AM
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These kind of responses amuse me. People have debated the meaning for centuries but reynolds357 has it figured out lol.
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Re: Why is wine a symbol
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Nov 29, 2023, 8:08 AM
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The thing that amuses me is that the Israelites loved their wine, and this story shows that.
But the people who tend to push literalism, also believe in abstaining from alcohol.
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Re: Why is wine a symbol
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Nov 30, 2023, 10:50 AM
[ in reply to Re: Why is wine a symbol ] |
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I simply apply the rules of hermeneutic interpretation to the passage. There is NO N.T. reference to this particular wine being symbolic of anything. When no N.T. confirmation of symbolism exists, symbolism can't be assumed. New Wine can be a reference to the New Covenant. This is not "new wine" and it has no confirmed symbolism. With no confirmed symbolism, assuming symbolism is "adding to" the text.
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Varsity [103]
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Re: Why is wine a symbol
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Nov 30, 2023, 11:13 AM
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That's fine, but that's still an interpretation.
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Re: Why is wine a symbol
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Nov 30, 2023, 12:37 PM
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It is an interpretation that follows the rules of interpretation. There is enough in the Bible that we do not need to add to the Bible.
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Varsity [103]
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Re: Why is wine a symbol
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Nov 30, 2023, 7:02 PM
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Oh the rules of interpretation. I’m sure everyone agrees on those
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Re: Why is wine a symbol
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Nov 28, 2023, 9:27 PM
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No symbolism to it. He turned water to wine. No symbolism present.
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Re: Why is wine a symbol
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Nov 28, 2023, 9:34 PM
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Not what I asked.
But, that miracle was definitely symbolic, right down to the ceremonial washing jars that were used.
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Dynasty Maker [3501]
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Re: Why is wine a symbol
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Nov 29, 2023, 8:06 AM
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Which means it’s probably not based on actual history.
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Top TigerNet [32647]
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Re: Why is wine a symbol
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Nov 29, 2023, 3:24 PM
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That's not a logical conclusion. Just because something is symbolic doesn't mean it didn't happen. One would think that Christ was purposeful in everything he did.
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Varsity [103]
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Re: Why is wine a symbol
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Nov 29, 2023, 3:51 PM
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Ok but that’s begging the question.
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Re: Why is wine a symbol
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Nov 29, 2023, 4:19 PM
[ in reply to Re: Why is wine a symbol ] |
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He gave better wine to people who had already been drinking.
Yet for some reason my church growing up had a rule no alcohol at weddings.
Go figure….
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Top TigerNet [32647]
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Re: Why is wine a symbol
Dec 3, 2023, 10:25 PM
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Don't worry. They weren't driving. Maybe your Church was worried about people driving while under the influence.
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Re: Why is wine a symbol
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Nov 30, 2023, 10:53 AM
[ in reply to Re: Why is wine a symbol ] |
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Maybe. Without N.T. confirmation of symbolism, we can't assume it is. A lot of preachers love to find symbolism where none exists. They then build highly interesting sermons on a symbolism that has no confirmation.
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Top TigerNet [32647]
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Re: Why is wine a symbol
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Dec 1, 2023, 4:29 AM
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Do you believe that wine is actually the blood of Jesus? As in, when/if you partake in Communion that the wine is actually Christ's blood? This is one of the areas in which I divert from Catholicism and some other denominations. I believe that it is symbolic and not actually the blood of Christ. In addition, I don't think biblical wording has to specifically say something is symbolic for it to be symbolic. I also believe something can be symbolic and at the same time be an event that happened.
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Re: Why is wine a symbol
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Dec 2, 2023, 8:15 PM
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I believe transubstantiation is heresy.
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Top TigerNet [32647]
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Re: Why is wine a symbol
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Dec 3, 2023, 9:09 PM
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So, you believe this is symbolic?
Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John.6.54,John.6.55,John.6.56,John.6.53&version=KJV
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110%er [3625]
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Re: Why is wine a symbol
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Nov 30, 2023, 7:07 PM
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Color....that is all.
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [102344]
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My favorite is that wine was commonly used througout history as...
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Dec 1, 2023, 8:30 AM
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a purification solution to bad water. It was 'mingled,' so a quick google search of mingled in the Bible will show the significance of wine to everyone. Any alcohol product will do but wine was the most available.
The tradition of mingling wine is what Americans criticized Europeans less than a century ago for allowing wine to their children, drinking being a sin and all. As water purification technology advanced the traditions continue but the wine isn't mingled today. None of that is on topic other than to say that Americans didn't traditionally suffer bad water.
The important part is wine being a purification solution which is the best representative in this world as the blood of Christ. That's the bottom line on this subject, to me.
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