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Rival Killer [3042]
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I don't want to go back
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Nov 5, 2024, 11:40 AM
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to the West, Hatfield, or Bowden days.
This is not about being a Dabo apologist either, this is recognizing who we have at head coach and the stark difference in him and those other coaches.
Dabo has fallen in a big game, several. One most notably to an unranked team. It made him look bad, the football program, our players, etc. He knows this..
This is not the standard that Swinney brought to Clemson football, coached and lived by for 95% of his career here. Every professional makes mistakes, every professional has a day, or days, when they just aren't prepared as they should be. Dabo sees this, and has admitted it on Saturday.
Dabo can make the changes necessary to to turn things around, and bring us back to championship level again. It was Dabo that did it before, and he can do it again. He is not unwilling change, as some on this board are saying. Is he stubborn? Sure, but we all are. That doesn't mean the game has passed him by, nor does it mean he can't coach football anymore.
Swinney knows Clemson, loves Clemson. This is his legacy. He brought "little ole Clemson" to the highest level, and has won repeatedly. I know this isn't 2018 anymore, I realize the landscape of CFB has changed a lot over the past 6 years. Dabo knows this too though.. He is making efforts to enable the NIL collective to pay loyal players, that's BIG change since his first stance in 2014-15 about paying players.
As far as using the portal more, sure I think he is realizing that now. But to say that he hasn't used the portal at all, that's just not true. He does need to embrace and adapt to more changes, and I think he will.
For the fans that are wanting change now, and persistently saying that Dabo won't change, and he's taking Clemson down with his pride, that's just simply not true either.
No, I don't think that we should get used to 7-5, 8-4 seasons. Do you really think Dabo wants that either? I tell you though who was satisfied with that: West, Hatfield, and Bowden. But that's not the coach we have, we have the best football coach in Clemson history...
There's also no guarantee that if you get someone else that is going to use the portal in a more immediate and liberal way to some fans liking on here that this will bring immediate winning either.. However, Clemson does has a winning track record under Swinney, and he can be trusted.
"Well, it's not just this past game, it's been a decline since 2020".
True, when you whiff on a QB that has rocket for an arm, but cannot scramble his way out of a wet paper bag or learn to read defenses, it's going to cause problems, namely losses.. No need to get into all that, it's been discussed at nauseum. Now we've got Cade, and he's played well, overall. As far as the program since 2020, I would again ask you to re-think about the Hatfield, West, and Bowden years..
Many of us miss Venables and the fire he brought off the bus. His intensity is missed on the sideline. My opinion on Wes has changed a little since he was first hired, he simply needs to coach better, his positions, and have our guys more prepared. If he doesn't, I'm sure Dabo will make the change necessary. He has proven he will with Riley, and Luke. An no, those two aren't friends and family hires.
No man is above Clemson, and yes, we all want some changes to bring us back to championship football again. I would just hate to lose the caliber of coach we have (that many schools across America would love to have) because we've gotten so used to being on the mountain, that the winningest coach in ACC history can't make mistakes. That will be a very sad day..
I love Clemson, and I've sat in Death Valley during those hard years. Folks, we've got a winner, a smart coach, and a fighter for this university. Just give him a little more grace and time. He's brought Clemson to the mountain before, and he can do it again.
Go Tigers
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Orange Beast [6283]
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Re: I don't want to go back
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Nov 5, 2024, 11:48 AM
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Nice post. Dabo will have to move to the norm of nil programs. His method is not working. We have a decrease in talent and depth. Using nil money to recruit high school players as others do will enable him to build his culture. Fill in the blanks via the portal. UGA’s roster is mostly recruits. A few portal fill ins.
He has got to change. Fans and donors are getting restless watching a systemic failure.
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Rival Killer [3042]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: I don't want to go back
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Nov 5, 2024, 11:54 AM
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I think he has to be seeing this now. As far as the details of what changes are implemented, he is smart enough (and has enough smart people around him) to collectively figure out a way to adapt, and still build and maintain the Clemson culture.
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Orange Beast [6283]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: I don't want to go back
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Nov 5, 2024, 12:09 PM
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I hope so but he has dug in pretty deep.
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National Champion [7482]
TigerPulse: 94%
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All-Conference [440]
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Re: I don't want to go back
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Nov 5, 2024, 3:11 PM
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This why Clemson lost D J Lagway. Florida paid him. It is the world we live in today in College Football.
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Orange Beast [6590]
TigerPulse: 100%
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1st Rounder [619]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Jimmies and Joe's or X's and O's?
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Nov 5, 2024, 1:30 PM
[ in reply to Re: I don't want to go back ] |
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I tend to agree with you on NIL and portal usage. But Clemson needs to use the portal only to fill immediate needs like our current holes at OL and DE, and nothing more. The vast majority of the roster needs to be HS recruits that are developed by coaches. You can have the best talent in the world on paper, but if you have incompetent coaching, it makes no difference. NIL and portal usage is part of it, but the biggest problem we have is coaches that have no business being on staff.
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All-In [10274]
TigerPulse: 95%
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Re: I don't want to go back
Nov 6, 2024, 1:11 PM
[ in reply to Re: I don't want to go back ] |
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Nice post. Dabo will have to move to the norm of nil programs. His method is not working. We have a decrease in talent and depth. Using nil money to recruit high school players as others do will enable him to build his culture. Fill in the blanks via the portal. UGA’s roster is mostly recruits. A few portal fill ins.
He has got to change. Fans and donors are getting restless watching a systemic failure.
It's ok if he fails as long as he is using all the tools available to him in building an elite team. His not willing to use all the tools available to him and seeing our roster fall to mid pack Acc is not acceptable.
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Walk-On [70]
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Re: I don't want to go back
Nov 6, 2024, 2:55 PM
[ in reply to Re: I don't want to go back ] |
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I disagree. We lost that Luisville game because the coaches did not prepare the team properly during the off week. That seems to be a pattern that must change.
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MVP [537]
TigerPulse: 89%
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Re: I don't want to go back
Nov 6, 2024, 8:00 PM
[ in reply to Re: I don't want to go back ] |
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I agree 100%! I think everyday about my younger brother who passed away in 2013 and never got the chance to see our time on the mountain top! We never missed a home game after I retired from being a coach, teacher and a principal! A lot of great times sharing the victories together!
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National Champion [7135]
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Re: Somebody Was A Spoiled Sore Loser ....Or Was It Many? ---
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Nov 5, 2024, 11:56 AM
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The way Dabo was doing it before.....we were becoming kind of unstoppable.....but yet with still so much room to rise.
Somebody's secret group had a round table session in the middle of the night and decided .....lets break the gates open of the portal which would make the cast of Stargate mad as a wet hen.
Then they decided to let the briefcases of NiL money go more public nationwide. A teenager's dream come true ....... right??
Then they decided to make combine conferences to make it full of heavyweight programs with lots of money. Clemson didn't quite fit that bill.....but we were winning and competing prior.
Dabo has old fashioned beliefs in a world that has almost ditched that whole entire concept...to have lucrative gains and popularity.
Where do we go from here??????
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Rival Killer [2916]
TigerPulse: 72%
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The federal courts did it and it wasn't done in secret******
Nov 6, 2024, 1:56 PM
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Campus Hero [14067]
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I think it's totally disingenuous to pin so much blame on DJ
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Nov 5, 2024, 12:08 PM
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while ignoring the ridiculous string of unqualified assistant coaching hires that Dabo made. DJ has been gone for two years. We still have multiple coaches on the staff that would be fortunate to land D1 jobs anywhere else, much less at a former national championship caliber program.
Missing on QBs happens everywhere and can certainly set a program back a bit for a couple of years, but that honestly pales in comparison to the hole that Dabo dug for himself with those coaching hires.
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Rival Killer [3042]
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Re: I think it's totally disingenuous to pin so much blame on DJ
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Nov 5, 2024, 12:14 PM
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My point wasn't to pin all the blame on DJ. He is a good kid, but he just wasn't the QB we thought, and the staff thought he was, or could be. It's certainly not all his fault. Coaches do miss on QB's all the time as you said, I think this staff did a pretty job with him (and won) despite him not being what we all thought he could be. You're right about the D1 coaching hires. But to my original point on that, Swinney has made changes with Riley and Luke, and may have to end up making more changes, we'll see...
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Game Changer [1788]
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Re: I think it's totally disingenuous to pin so much blame on DJ
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Nov 5, 2024, 2:12 PM
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My point wasn't to pin all the blame on DJ. He is a good kid, but he just wasn't the QB we thought, and the staff thought he was, or could be. It's certainly not all his fault. Coaches do miss on QB's all the time as you said, I think this staff did a pretty job with him (and won) despite him not being what we all thought he could be. You're right about the D1 coaching hires. But to my original point on that, Swinney has made changes with Riley and Luke, and may have to end up making more changes, we'll see...
Our receivers were mediocre when DJ was here as well, he was not the QB we thought we had but the cast around him was average, add to that, a home-grown group of coaches that couldn't coach at the high school level and you get the results we had. "Amateurs teach amateurs to be anateurs."
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Athletic Dir [1194]
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Re: I think it's totally disingenuous to pin so much blame on DJ
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Nov 5, 2024, 3:15 PM
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And after all, he's done so well at his other stops along the way to his illustrious NFL career.
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Orange Blooded [2444]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: I think it's totally disingenuous to pin so much blame on DJ
Nov 6, 2024, 12:42 PM
[ in reply to Re: I think it's totally disingenuous to pin so much blame on DJ ] |
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Big Stinko needed time to adjust to his receiving corp. After all, it's not like he didn't have one of his favorite receivers from high school on the field with him
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Ring of Honor [22098]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 1995
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Ring of Honor [22098]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Posts: 14318
Joined: 1995
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Rival Killer [2916]
TigerPulse: 72%
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The problem with that is that Dabo
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Nov 5, 2024, 12:40 PM
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is taking the football program straight back to the Hatfield/West/Bowden days.
The trend is not good. His stubbornness is a huge obstacle to returning the program to elite ststus.
As others have said recently, Clemson is paying Dabo elite money but not getting elite results.
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Paw Warrior [4929]
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Re: The problem with that is that Dabo
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Nov 5, 2024, 4:39 PM
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So many people seem to think the portal is like a Chinese menu: pick one OL and 2 WR...
So we just need to identify the players in the portal who:
* fill some gaps in our lineup
* are not the 50% or so of players in the portal who simply are not good enough to land ANYWHERE
AND
* are not "problem children" on a path to drugs, DUI, arrests...
* are willing to fill those gaps, even if the gaps are 2nd and 3rd on the depth chart
* are willing to sign without any guarantee of playing time unless they earn it
* are willing to sign without up-front NIL guarantees
* want to be at Clemson instead of somewhere else (any of the above being more important)
Pretty sure Dabo would sign these kids in a heartbeat. Why wouldn't he?
Do we want to try the FSU model and just throw in whatever money it takes to get the kids we want?
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Ring of Honor [22098]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 1995
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FOR THE 1,000,000.000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000th TIME
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Nov 6, 2024, 12:30 PM
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NO ONE IS ADVOCATING THE FSU APPROACH!!!
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Dynasty Maker [3124]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: I don't want to go back
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Nov 5, 2024, 12:42 PM
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Yeah it seems like the big wins are getting further and further away in the rearview mirror.
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Associate AD [1097]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: I don't want to go back
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Nov 5, 2024, 1:30 PM
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Unfortunately I do not see a lot different the rest of this year from the defense. Cannot stop a decent running game, not getting the needed sacks or turnovers when needed when O is struggling. Lack of adjustment in-game. I like Wes but I see a new DC for next year. We love Mafah but need some speed to the edge to improve run game or we gotta run #2 even more which is dangerous for him. I see a struggle to the end this year on O. I will not be surprised to see Riley leave for another slot somewhere. So there can very well be 2 new coordinators next year. If receivers don't soon block better and fight for 50-50 balls then I can see new WR coordinator next year. Tough schedule next year with LSU and at SC. I hate to say it (and I have been watching Clemson football for 66 years since age 6) but I do not see an ACC championship this year or next and certainly no playoff 2-4 years. We had a great heyday 2015-2020 and it can happen again. The new NIL landscape changes everything and I would rather have integrity in the program and the university than become like all the others like FSU, Miami, Ole Miss, Tenn, etc. We have our work cut out for us if we stay the course and still want to win 1/3 to 1/2 of the ACC crowns in the next 10 years and get to the playoffs 3-4 times. I have been wrong before and hope I am now but right now it is difficult to have the optimism I had in 2017 after winning in Tampa. Still a Tiger and still believe it's the best thing going. I suffered thru 6 losing seasons as a student and I can take it but would hope and pray that never happens again.
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Top TigerNet [32838]
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Re: I don't want to go back
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Nov 5, 2024, 2:32 PM
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Well said, WPTigre1®!
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Letterman [192]
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Re: I don't want to go back
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Nov 5, 2024, 2:48 PM
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Well said. I would add that the problem is NOT Dabo. The problem is the out-of-control NIL business. It's not righ,, it's not fair, and furthermore it sets a very bad example for young athletes, most of whom will not have the talent to go pro.
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Rival Killer [2916]
TigerPulse: 72%
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You got that 180° off from reality.
Nov 6, 2024, 12:15 PM
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The problem is exactly Dabo.
The problem is not NIL. It's how Davi refuses to use it.
What wasn't right and what was the NCAA rules against it. They were blatantly illegal under federal law.
It sets the example that people can get fair market value for their labor and not be exploited for your entertainment.
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [99912]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Like clockwork***
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Nov 6, 2024, 12:39 PM
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Rival Killer [2916]
TigerPulse: 72%
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You are echolalic. Like clockwork******
Nov 6, 2024, 1:57 PM
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Recruit [-100]
TigerPulse: 50%
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I read this EXACT same post on TigerNet.....
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Nov 5, 2024, 3:20 PM
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1. After we sh** the bed against LSU in the 2019 natty.
2. After we lost 2 games the next year....
3. After we lost 3 games the next year....
4. After we lost 3 games the next year....
5. After we lost 4 games the next year....
6. After we took beatdown from Tennessee in a bowl game....
7. After Duke turned us inside-out last season....
8. After unranked L'ville burned one of the most talented football teams Clemson's ever had.....
9. After losing 5 recruits this off-season, alone....
10. After wondering why Swinney and staff picked DJU's fadazz to be a starter when he's straight garbage....
11. After seeing CDS finally fire Brandon Streeter...
12. After seeing CDS finally fire Thomas Austin...
13. After seeing CDS hire more ass-clown former players as coaching staff....
14. After Swinney passes up on ANY potential Oline-man in the portal, and I watch ours gets tossed around...
15. After KNOWING our WR room sucked for years and was due to CDS hiring some former player, Tyler Grisham, to run that unit.
16. After whiffing on more RB offers than I can recount, and still told that "Spiller was a great RB, and family, so he deserved to be coach"
I'm tired of this. I'm tired of Swinney aiming for mediocrity while short-selling his past to fans that don't know any better.
Swinney is the problem. Swinney - and his legion of adamant supporters.
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Rival Killer [3042]
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Re: This post wasn't an attempt to change the mind of those who have already
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Nov 5, 2024, 3:45 PM
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made up their mind about Swinney. Nevertheless, I will say it's going to be really tough to fill the shoes of a legendary coach with this resume.
14.5 Seasons
Overall 176–44
Bowls 12–8
Tournaments 6–4 (CFP)
Championships
2 National (2016, 2018)
8 ACC (2011, 2015–2020, 2022)
10 ACC Atlantic Division (2009, 2011, 2012, 2015–2020, 2022)
Awards
3× Paul "Bear" Bryant Award (2015, 2016, 2018)
AFCA Coach of the Year (2015)
AP College Football Coach of the Year (2015)
Sporting News Coach of the Year (2015)
Walter Camp Coach of the Year (2015)
Home Depot Coach of the Year (2015)
George Munger Award (2015)
Bobby Dodd Coach of the Year (2011)
2× ACC Coach of the Year (2015, 2018)
Swinney loves Clemson, and I know he isn't satisfied with the results lately either. He can change, and has shown the ability to do so. Perhaps not in the best of timing always, but still shown the ability, and he's a winner. If you can't see that from his resume, I don't know what to tell you. So, IMO, our best bet is to stick with the man who got us to the top of mountain, and has won repeatedly.
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Rival Killer [2916]
TigerPulse: 72%
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We are in a different mountain now.
Nov 6, 2024, 2:00 PM
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And it's starting to look like it has a big frater in it.
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Orange Blooded [2335]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: I don't want to go back
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Nov 6, 2024, 4:37 AM
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We essentially already are back in the Bowden days at this point. That's how far the program has regressed. Worst home loss since 2013, and that 2013 loss was to an elite opponent, not an unranked team. We haven't seen defensive play this poor since 2011, and haven't seen such a shocking lack of athleticism at WR since...as long as I can even remember.
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Ring of Honor [22098]
TigerPulse: 100%
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You forgot to mention poor OL play, and blocked FGs.***
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Nov 6, 2024, 12:34 PM
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Ring of Honor [22098]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Thank you for the heartfelt post.
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Nov 6, 2024, 12:40 PM
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"No man is above Clemson, and yes, we all want some changes to bring us back to championship football again. I would just hate to lose the caliber of coach we have (that many schools across America would love to have) because we've gotten so used to being on the mountain, that the winningest coach in ACC history can't make mistakes. That will be a very sad day.."
I especially like this part. I think a lot of us feel the same way that we love Dabo but would like to see him make the changes he needs to go get back on top. Even though I love Dabo and forever grateful for the two natties what's on the field now is nowhere close to 11M per year.
If Dabo fixes this then we are all happy.
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Rival Killer [3042]
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Re: Thank you for the heartfelt post.
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Nov 6, 2024, 1:53 PM
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PBT, The post was primarily meant to be about a reflection of past decades of Clemson FB and coaches, in comparison with our head coach and Clemson FB over the past decade.
Most of us don't want to live in the past either.. As far as his salary, I’ll leave that up to the powers that be, but I know that being a top competitor and winning again will make it a moot point.
I understand the need for adaptation and evolution according to the times to be competitive, and I think Dabo is seeing this also. He has shown signs that he is flexible, regardless of what you read on the internet.. Has he made some bad coaching hires? Yep, and he has also (even recently) made some really good ones. I believe he can make the necessary changes, and has shown the ability to that, and even change his mind on topics (IE: paying players) that are all part of the new landscape of CFB.
"If Dabo fixes this then we are all happy." I think it will be impossible to make everyone happy, but I'll take your word for it.
Message was edited by: WPTigre1®
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Ring of Honor [22098]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 1995
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Thanks for the response.
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Nov 6, 2024, 2:01 PM
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"If Dabo fixes this then we are all happy."
I think what I meant was better roster management and better coaching hires.
I think Dabo has knocked it out the park mostly, but recently it has a lot to be desired. I also think you need to earn your salary every year. I am sure Dabo would agree with me.
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Asst Coach [879]
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Re: I don't want to go back
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Nov 6, 2024, 12:41 PM
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Blah blah blah and more blah.
Nothing but excuses and asking for more time when he’s had 4/5 years to adjust and hasn’t.
Some of y’all don’t get it. If he was going to change… he would have done it by now. Listen to his interviews and press conferences.
Look in eyes. He doesn’t know what to do either or it would have been done by now. We are consistently getting worse while all the true contenders around us are getting better.
We no longer have the talent advantage to cover up his lack of x and o coaching. Under Dabo… when our QB isn’t the best player on the field… we don’t win big. That’s the bottom line going back to Dabos first days as HC.
When it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck… it’s a friggin duck and Dabo just keeps on walking and quacking and most of you just keep defending his ridiculous stubbornness and inability to change and adapt.
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All-American [571]
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Re: I don't want to go back
Nov 6, 2024, 12:48 PM
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100% agree. Well said. Bravo.
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Game Day Hero [4186]
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You're ridiculous - Dabo is a GOAT and you cannot even compare him to others***
Nov 6, 2024, 2:59 PM
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Tiger Titan [47573]
TigerPulse: 77%
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Whether Dabo or his fan club want to admit it, expectations now are different.
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Nov 6, 2024, 5:38 PM
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That’s partly because of the success Dabo has had here, and also partly due to the fact that we spent a whole lot more on football now than we did in the past.
In fact, I am sure Hatfield, West, and Bowden would have loved to have the outstanding facilities, staff budgets, and general best-of-everything support that Dabo has gotten. While that would’ve resulted in greater expectations, it also would have afforded those coaches way more in terms of advantages than they did not have but could’ve benefited from.
We are quickly approaching the point where Dabo can’t continue living off of his high level success he once had here. This is year four of underachievement. At what point can some of you stop the hero worship and unwavering belief in Dabo, and instead acknowledge the reality of our situation? It’s time some of you start asking the tough questions.
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110%er [3719]
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Re: Whether Dabo or his fan club want to admit it, expectations now are different.
Nov 8, 2024, 6:26 AM
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Those improvements were earned with incremental rises in the success of the program. Playing for ACC Championships, 10 win seasons, Winning ACC Championships and major bowls. Hatfield, West didn't do that. Bowden took us a step or two in that direction. We have still not suffered the downs of those coaches even though we have performed under the standard Dabo set. He took major steps the last two years to get us back, lets see what happens the rest of this year and the off season. I will say the lack of defensive pressure with little blitzing bothers me.
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Orange Elite [5409]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Excellent post dudeexactly how I feel including starting to change my opinion o
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Nov 6, 2024, 8:07 PM
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On Wes.
We lose dabo, get ready for disaster. One of my daughters is at Auburn. Their football program is in shambles since they fired Gus.
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