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Clemson Conqueror [11636]
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Dynasty Maker [3408]
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If he pulled Sammy Brown last Sat., we can start with that.***
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Dec 6, 2024, 2:43 PM
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Orange Immortal [68081]
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^^^^THIS^^^^***
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Dec 6, 2024, 2:51 PM
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Clemson Conqueror [11636]
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Rival Killer [2630]
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Uh. We went to nickel. That may have been the wrong thing, but that's why***
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Dec 6, 2024, 3:00 PM
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Letterman [174]
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Re: Wes Goodwin...
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Dec 6, 2024, 2:43 PM
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His defensive knowledge is there, but his development and authority is not.
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Letterman [174]
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Re: Wes Goodwin...
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Dec 6, 2024, 2:46 PM
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He is a really smart guy but he isn't made to be in charge of the whole defense. Some people just aren't meant for that role. Personally, I think Someone else should be put in charge and he should be like an annalist or something.
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Legend [6804]
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Re: Wes Goodwin...
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Dec 6, 2024, 2:47 PM
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That was his role before he was promoted - analyst. The word is, Dabo had to offer him the DC position to prevent him from going with BV to Oklahoma.
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Head Coach [944]
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what exactly does an annalist do?
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Dec 6, 2024, 2:47 PM
[ in reply to Re: Wes Goodwin... ] |
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do I even want to know?
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Letterman [174]
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Re: what exactly does an annalist do?
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Dec 6, 2024, 2:53 PM
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they anylize the opponents offense and make game plans.
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Legend [6804]
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Re: what exactly does an annalist do?
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Dec 6, 2024, 2:55 PM
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Lol somehow you got worse
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Game Day Hero [4515]
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Re: what exactly does an annalist do?
Dec 6, 2024, 3:10 PM
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LOL
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MVP [529]
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Re: what exactly does an annalist do?
Dec 6, 2024, 3:21 PM
[ in reply to what exactly does an annalist do? ] |
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Who knew? For over 70 years I thought that an analyst was just another term for a proctologist, similarly how we refer to a lawyer as an attorney or a counselor or a pettifogger. New to late to learn something new!
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Letterman [171]
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All-Conference [436]
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Re: Wes Goodwin...
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Dec 6, 2024, 3:23 PM
[ in reply to Re: Wes Goodwin... ] |
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Goodwin is more fit for an IT job at Apple, and not a Defensive Football Coach. A nerd that can troubleshoot at the office.
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Legend [6804]
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Re: Wes Goodwin...
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Dec 6, 2024, 2:43 PM
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He's not aggressive enough in his play-calling, and in-game adjustments have been questionable at times.
He also doesn't seem to be much of a motivator. That's not super critical if your position coaches take that role.
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Letterman [174]
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Re: Wes Goodwin...
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Dec 6, 2024, 2:46 PM
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I don't think they are though
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110%er [3900]
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Re: Wes Goodwin...
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Dec 6, 2024, 2:48 PM
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I think the difference is I would think everyone would agree he knows defensive and how to analyze what an offense is doing. Its why generally we see a better performance after halftime
But its different when you go from advising, and suggesting calls to being the once actually making the call. Some people just can't make that jump
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Letterman [185]
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Re: Wes Goodwin...
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Dec 6, 2024, 2:49 PM
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probably a little of all of those things. Can't replace a guy like Venables in terms of the combination of football knowledge, IQ, and intensity. I think Goodwin has the Knowledge and football IQ for sure, but the intensity just isn't there. Venables got the most out of his guys because he refused to accept less.
There are also fundamental differences in each guy's approach to defense. Venables was a Let's throw everything at them and see if they're good enough to overcome it and make a play. Goodwin seems more suited for an NFL job where he can play more of a bend and don't break style of football. In the NFL you can do that more because everyone is an insane talent and a lot of times either the offense makes a mistake, or someone makes a play, and you can't just throw everything at a QB because they ARE good enough to find the weakness and exploit it, where as in college, not everybody has an elite QB that can handle that kind of defensive pressure.
Just my 2 cents.
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Clemson Conqueror [11636]
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Re: Wes Goodwin...
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Dec 6, 2024, 2:51 PM
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Good point.
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Dynasty Maker [3408]
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Would be better off up in the booth.***
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Dec 6, 2024, 2:51 PM
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All-Conference [436]
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Re: Wes Goodwin...
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Dec 6, 2024, 2:54 PM
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The proof of the pudding is in the eating. His defense is not tough or physical, the players seem to be confused on the field. They can't tackle a lick, and his defense seems to avoid contact, a fear of their opponent. A very passive defense, and they allow their opponents to "bully" them. No containment on the perimeter...shall I go on? He can't motivate men, which is the greatest weakeness of a coach.
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Clemson Conqueror [11636]
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Re: Wes Goodwin...
Dec 6, 2024, 2:55 PM
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Especially true in games against tough opponents, it seems.
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Asst Coach [897]
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Re: Wes Goodwin...
Dec 6, 2024, 2:58 PM
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He’s got a pretty rare mind.
Called a great game against USC but X’s and O’s don’t beat Jimmy’s and Joe’s and Sellers single-handedly beat us.
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Legend [6804]
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Re: Wes Goodwin...
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Dec 6, 2024, 3:00 PM
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South Carolina racked up a TON of yards in the 4th quarter, after we adjusted the defense. It's those instances that are really head-scratching. In-game adjustments are too inconsistent. Look at UGA after halftime, too.
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Clemson Conqueror [11636]
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Re: Wes Goodwin...
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Dec 6, 2024, 3:00 PM
[ in reply to Re: Wes Goodwin... ] |
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Do you think Sellers would have single-handedly beaten a Venables defense? I'm not sure myself.
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CU Medallion [18981]
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Re: Wes Goodwin...
Dec 6, 2024, 3:04 PM
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Connor Shaw essentially did that twice for SCar vs Venables in '12 and '13. Our D would shut the play down and we couldn't contain far too many drive-saving scrambles.
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Clemson Conqueror [11636]
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Re: Wes Goodwin...
Dec 6, 2024, 3:12 PM
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Ah, Connor Shaw. You are right. He wasn't the most talented qb, but he played hard and was difficult to bring down.
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Letterman [174]
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Re: Wes Goodwin...
Dec 6, 2024, 3:12 PM
[ in reply to Re: Wes Goodwin... ] |
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Venables would have shut sellers down cause we woulda made all those tackles in the backfield
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Clemson Conqueror [11522]
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Re: Wes Goodwin...
Dec 6, 2024, 3:10 PM
[ in reply to Re: Wes Goodwin... ] |
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It was okay. They were over 50% on 3rd down conversions, ran all over us, and possessed the ball too long.
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Commissioner [1229]
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Re: Wes Goodwin...
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Dec 6, 2024, 3:01 PM
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Looking at stats in 2019 we were 5th in total defense. 2024, 57th. But that would be unfair.
There are a lot more factors in that besides the DC. Drop in talent would probably be the number one reason. That being said, Clemson (and a lot of other programs) are no longer 2-deep at every position. We can thank the portal for that one. So we are going to recruit and develop. That's great. If that's the plan, I don't think Wes is the guy. Being able to recognize and call a defense is pointless if there's nobody out there to run it.
IMO, Goodwin is just not that motivator, teacher, inspiration (whatever you want to call it). He's an analyst.
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Clemson Conqueror [11636]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Wes Goodwin...
Dec 6, 2024, 3:03 PM
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So, you do believe Venables would do better with this defense, even though it is thinner than the Clemson D from 4-5 years ago?
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Commissioner [1229]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Wes Goodwin...
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Dec 6, 2024, 3:13 PM
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Hard to say. But I do believe that best coaches out there have a clear understanding of the players they have to work with and form a defense with that FIRST. Just being able to analyze what an offense is doing and call a defense doesn't necessarily make you a good coach.
I would say the same thing about an OC. You have a guy that may be a great pocket passer. Do you continue to call RPO's? Do you have an O-line that knows how to set up a pocket? etc. etc.
But back to Goodwin. As an analyst I would look to see adjustments made prior to getting boat raced. Or better still, giving up yardage and/or points off the same plays. And whether or not it was Goodwin or Dabo that sat Brown in the 4th quarter, who was having an incredible day, seems lacking in analytical ability. "We THOUGHT they were going to change their offense....." And when they didn't, why was Brown still on the bench?
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Clemson Conqueror [11636]
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Re: Wes Goodwin...
Dec 6, 2024, 3:19 PM
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Great question. Was it something else that kept Sammy out? I don't know. But it does seem strange that Dabo/Wes would sit their fastest and best tackling backer in such a crucial situation.
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Commissioner [1229]
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Re: Wes Goodwin...
Dec 6, 2024, 3:30 PM
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Not just to pile on.....
I idea of a great DC is that their defense dictates what the offense does. Not vice versa. I realize there's a lot going on prior to the snap. Offensive shifts, motion, defensive shifts and so on. But the defense I've seen that last couple of years is more often than not "reactionary". I'd really like to see more QB's backing away from center because they just can't tell what a defense is doing. This year I've seen QB's make quick decisions because they KNEW what we were going to do.
And I don't care what you call it, it's a prevent defense. You can tell as the LB's wait for the play to come to them. It's containment. Maybe that's all we can expect out of this group. IDK. But I think that is the lack of "ferocity" that permeates this topic.
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Clemson Conqueror [11636]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Wes Goodwin...
Dec 6, 2024, 4:07 PM
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Yep. It does appear as though the Tiger D, once predatory, now waits for its quarry.
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Legend [6922]
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nice 2021 article ...***
Dec 6, 2024, 3:02 PM
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110%er [3900]
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Re: nice 2021 article ...***
Dec 6, 2024, 3:32 PM
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Didnt you just post an 20 month old article as a non-sequitur in another thread????
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Legend [6922]
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abstract thinking vs logic linear***
Dec 6, 2024, 3:38 PM
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110%er [3900]
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Re: abstract thinking vs logic linear***
Dec 6, 2024, 3:42 PM
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You mean linear logic LOL
Which one points out the folly of ones action while doing the same thing?
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Legend [6922]
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in other words - i used a reference to an opinion that anything Dabo says is
Dec 6, 2024, 3:40 PM
[ in reply to Re: nice 2021 article ...*** ] |
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complete and total sh** and serves no purpose other than hyping up something
Ben Bouleware took good notes and is doing the same thing
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110%er [3900]
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Re: in other words - i used a reference to an opinion that anything Dabo says is
Dec 6, 2024, 3:44 PM
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And you pointed out the old article here for what reason exactly if not to undermine the thought process of the OP?
But then you turn around and use a nearly as stale article to promote your opinion?
You do see the irony in that correct?
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Dynasty Maker [3339]
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... is a great defensive analyst
Dec 6, 2024, 3:03 PM
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Might be one of the best in the game as an analyst
That said... he has shown us that the greatest of analysts might not be a great coordinator. It's one thing to be able to analyze situations and provide excellent data/information. It's another thing to be able to take that information and make the best decisions with it.
Take Miami's FG against Syracuse... they had brilliant analytic information that suggested that in that situation (down by 7, field goal range, 4 minutes) that kicking a field goal was the best thing to do statistically. The analysis was spot on... over the history of college football that is absolutely the right thing to do. That said - it was the wrong coaching move to follow that analytic. Analytics can't (yet) cover the "feel" of the situation. They can't (yet) factor in who has the hot hand, how the data from that game impacts the decision, the impact of momentum, etc. Miami would have been better off taking a chance on 4th down... even if they failed.
Removing Merriweather was the right thing analytically, wrong thing for the game
Removing Sammy Brown might have been the right thing analytically, wrong thing for the game
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Clemson Conqueror [11636]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: ... is a great defensive analyst
Dec 6, 2024, 3:08 PM
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Interesting. The analytics are terrific at giving numbers, but not feeling the mood of a game.
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Solid Orange [1302]
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Re: Wes Goodwin...
Dec 6, 2024, 3:14 PM
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So that article is 3 years old
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Legend [6804]
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Re: Wes Goodwin...
Dec 6, 2024, 3:20 PM
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That's the point. 3 years ago, that was the story. Hot commodity, fast-riser. Now, many people are questioning his employment. So the OP is asking, what went wrong.
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Clemson Conqueror [11636]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Wes Goodwin...
Dec 6, 2024, 3:20 PM
[ in reply to Re: Wes Goodwin... ] |
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Yes. Wonder if assessments of Wes have changed.
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Scout Team [85]
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Re: Wes Goodwin...
Dec 6, 2024, 3:18 PM
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He seems to be a smart guy, but to pull Sammy Brown and not put him back in when Sellers was running all over us is a dumb move. He often sits back and “limits” the offense to a 5 yard gain on 3rd and long instead of putting pressure on the qb to make a bad decision. The tackling has been sub par since BV left and I believe it’s a direct correlation to the huge step down in the intensity differences between the two. Wes has the players to have a great defense but he is too soft. I guarantee if he was fired today, he would not be a DC in D1 next year.
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Clemson Conqueror [11636]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 2014
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Re: Wes Goodwin...
Dec 6, 2024, 3:23 PM
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Probably true. Many seem to think he belongs back upstairs in the booth.
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Letterman [153]
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Re: Wes Goodwin...
Dec 6, 2024, 4:05 PM
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Wes was not the problem in scheming. Would have been a dominant game if we wrapped up and tackled better.
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Legend [6804]
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Re: Wes Goodwin...
Dec 6, 2024, 4:08 PM
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Except when we changed the scheme and they ran for 100+ yards in the 4th quarter alone...
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Clemson Conqueror [11636]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Wes Goodwin...
Dec 6, 2024, 4:12 PM
[ in reply to Re: Wes Goodwin... ] |
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No doubt. It happened in the Duke game last year. Barrett Carter had a great chance to take down Riley Leonard for a sizable sack. Instead, Leonard not only escaped but ran for a 44 yard touch down. It was pretty much the game changing play. So, bad tackling has been an issue for some time.
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Rival Killer [2909]
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He must be perfect. Dabo picked him.
Dec 6, 2024, 4:15 PM
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Dabo never makes mistakes, right?
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Clemson Conqueror [11636]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: He must be perfect. Dabo picked him.
Dec 6, 2024, 4:19 PM
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All of us do.
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All-American [564]
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Re: Wes Goodwin...
Dec 6, 2024, 4:37 PM
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555 yards rushing the last 2 games. 73rd overall Rush Defense. Perhaps that's why people want him gone.
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Clemson Conqueror [11636]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Wes Goodwin...
Dec 6, 2024, 4:55 PM
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Well taken.
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Team Captain [493]
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"had" a sterling reputation...
Dec 6, 2024, 5:11 PM
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EOM
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Replies: 56
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