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Gridiron Giant [15748]
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wE mUSt aLloW iLLEgaL imMiGraTiOn or weLl STaRvE!
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Nov 12, 2024, 7:08 AM
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Is it just me, or do The Libs of Tnet sound an awful lot like the old democrat party trying to justify slavery; by demanding unfettered illegal immigration?
Guess you can’t hide who you really are. Plantation On, democrats.
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Campus Hero [13175]
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110%er [4056]
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Re: wE mUSt aLloW iLLEgaL imMiGraTiOn or weLl STaRvE!
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Nov 12, 2024, 8:10 AM
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She says no Americans will work in the lawn care industry. First of all that’s not true. Second, is that not a bit of a racist statement?
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Orange Beast [6290]
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Re: wE mUSt aLloW iLLEgaL imMiGraTiOn or weLl STaRvE!
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Nov 12, 2024, 7:26 AM
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Poor little democrats might have to learn how to mow their own lawn, or pay an American a little more to do it for them. How tragic.
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TigerNet Legend [145295]
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Nobody is demanding illegal immigration, you simpleton.
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Nov 12, 2024, 7:40 AM
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But that labor is needed to keep the economy roughly where it is. Remove a sizeable chunk of that labor supply, especially in spaces like agriculture where it has been proven that Americans can't/won't do the jobs, and you'll see prices spike (I believe the common term is "inflation", look it up).
The push, from BOTH sides, is to reform legal immigration hurdles and capacity and dramatically increase the number of vetted, papered immigrants laboring in the US. But you already know all of this, you just enjoy propping up insipid strawmen that nobody is arguing for.
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Tiger Titan [45999]
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He's too stupid to understand that.***
Nov 12, 2024, 7:56 AM
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Campus Hero [13175]
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You are correct.
Nov 12, 2024, 7:57 AM
[ in reply to Nobody is demanding illegal immigration, you simpleton. ] |
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Not demanding, just winking, nodding, and making excuses for it.
And explaining how the US economy relies on them.
And completely disregarding the devastation being wrought here by illegals.
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TigerNet Legend [145295]
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This is a fairly simple calculation then.
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Nov 12, 2024, 8:24 AM
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Does the "devastation being wrought here by illegals" outweigh the economic benefit? If it does, then every one of them should be removed immediately. If it doesn't, then some other solution should be developed. Or, there's likely a 3rd option for people like Stephen Miller (I think you could be included in this 3rd group too) where it doesn't matter if there's a net benefit being provided by illegal labor, because there is no cost or impact to you or the economy you live in that makes more people with brown skin being allowed in your lily-white country acceptable.
But let's start with the "devastation" from these illegal immigrants. Please...elaborate. Eating cats and dogs?
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Orange Beast [6290]
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Re: This is a fairly simple calculation then.
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Nov 12, 2024, 8:30 AM
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You know the kooks have no argument when they play the race card. They honestly think that if we had 30 million white illegals sucking our social services dry the right would be silent on this issue. Simpletons indeed.
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Campus Hero [13175]
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I wonder if
Nov 12, 2024, 8:33 AM
[ in reply to This is a fairly simple calculation then. ] |
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Lakin Riley thought it was devastating as she endured the life-ending blows to her face and skull.
August On August 4, Mexican national Alberto Martinez-Fidel allegedly shot another man in Montgomery, Alabama, shooting him in the back and buttocks at close range. ICE confirmed that Martinez-Fidel is an illegal alien but stated they do not have additional information regarding his information history, suggesting he entered the U.S. as a “gotaway.” (Breitbart News, August 7, 2024; DailyWire.com, August 8, 2024) July On July 1, Mexican national Jesus Sandoval-Martinez killed Tiger Gutierrez (22) and injured another person in a drunk driving accident in Albuquerque, New Mexico. Sandoval-Martinez was not only intoxicated but also speeding, driving recklessly, and did not have a license. The illegal alien attempted to flee the crash site on foot but was prevented from doing so by bystanders before the police arrived. (Fox News, July 3, 2024; Breitbart News, July 3, 2024) On July 5, Mexican national Victor Manuel Gomez Acosta allegedly stabbed his two daughters to death, and viciously stabbed their mother (although she managed to survive the attack), in Abbotsford, Wisconsin. According to ICE officials, Gomez Acosta entered the U.S. in September 2016 through a port of entry in Laredo, Texas, but overstayed a six-month work visa and remained illegally afterwards. (Breitbart News, July 13, 2024; Fox News, July 13, 2024) On July 8, Honduran national Zelvin Gomez caused a car crash while speeding and driving intoxicated at three times the legal drunk driving limit, killing a 6-year-old girl that was in his vehicle, in Baldwin County, Alabama. The child was not buckled in a car seat. The illegal alien had applied for asylum in the U.S., but his case was rejected. (Fox 10 WALA, July 10, 2024; Breitbart News, July 12, 2024) On July 9, Honduran national Carlos Roberto Diaz (18) and an unnamed juvenile (16) went on a random shooting spree in Charlotte, North Carolina, killing Mustaffa Muhammad and non-fatally wounding two other people. Diaz entered the U.S. illegally in 2019 with his father when he was 14. He was encountered by the USBP along the Rio Grande but it is unclear how or why he was allowed into the country. (WSOC-TV, July 12, 2024; Breitbart News, July 13, 2024) On July 19, Honduran national Maldin Anibal Guzman-Videz and another man allegedly beat Nicacio Hernandez Gonzalez to death in Fairfax County, Virginia. Guzman-Videz originally entered the U.S. near Hidalgo, Texas, on November 18, 2018, but was released with an NTA. On July 15, 2019, a judge ordered him removed. On March 17, 2023, in Fairfax County, he was charged with malicious assault and severely injuring a victim, and entering a building at night with intent to commit larceny. On June 28, 2023, he was arrested again and charged with malicious wounding. According to Patch.com, “etween Oct. 27, 2022 and June 28, 2023, Enforcement and Removal Operations in Washington, DC filed multiple immigration detainers against Guzman-Videz with the Fairfax County Adult Detention Center. However, ICE said that the detention center refused to honor the detainers and released Guzman from custody.” The illegal alien merely received a 364-day suspended sentence for burglary, i.e. he was released back into the community. He was arrested again in February 2024 and released in June. (Fox 5, July 25, 2024; Patch.com, July 26, 2024) On July 21, Honduran national Axel Flores-Cordova killed Rylan Oncale and Taliyah Crochet in a drunk driving crash in Lafourche Parish, Louisiana. The 18-year-old illegal alien was also driving without a license. Other passengers were injured and had to be hospitalized. (Louisiana State Police, July 21, 2024; Breitbart News, July 24, 2024) On July 28, Salvadoran national Jose Aguilar-Martinez allegedly killed Melody Waldecker – a mother of four and a grandmother of eight – at a 7-11 location in Sterling, Virginia. Waldecker noticed Aguilar-Martinez breaking into her car, and when she attempted to stop him, he fatally struck her while making his escape. The illegal alien entered the U.S. at an unspecified time as a “gotaway.” (Breitbart News, July 30, 2024; New York Post, July 31, 2024) June On June 3, Venezuelan national Bernardo Castro Mata shot NYPD officers Richard Yarusso (in the abdominal area in his bullet-proof vest) and Christopher Abreu (in the leg) while resisting the officers’ attempts to take away his illegal firearm in New York City. According to the New York Post, “Yarusso and Abreu were working on a robbery pattern involving criminals on mopeds in Elmhurst when they spotted Mata driving a black scooter with no plates the wrong way down a street about 1:40 a.m. (…) The suspect ditched his moped (…) and ran off, prompting the officers to chase after him,” after which he resisted arrest and pulled out a gun. Moreover, the illegal alien “was being eyed by the NYPD in two previous violent ‘###### and grab’ robberies targeting women in Queens on May 21.” Mata, who is 19, entered the country through Eagle Pass, Texas, in July 2023 and was ultimately released on May 6 without any way to track him. CBS News added that “[a]ccording to court documents, Mata, who lived in a migrant shelter (…), told detectives he is a member of a Venezuelan gang and that guns are smuggled into shelters through food delivery packages to avoid metal detectors. He also said it is common practice for Tren de Aragua gang members to shoot at police officers.” (New York Post, June 3, 2024; CBS News, June 27, 2024) On June 9, in New York City, Venezuelan national Ysmael Qintero aggressively bit three NYPD officers during three separate occasions that day: while being arrested for shoplifting at a Manhattan Target, at the police station, and at the hospital. The illegal alien had racked up 18 shoplifting arrests since December 2023. (New York Post, June 11, 2024; LaPatilla.com, June 11, 2024) On June 11, Mexican national Ignacio Cruz-Mendoza was driving a semi-truck unlicensed and caused an accident impacting five other vehicles and resulting in the death of Scott Miller (of Bailey, Colorado). Although, as an illegal alien, he was not authorized to work in the U.S., and had no commercial driver’s license, Cruz-Mendoza was nevertheless driving for the Monique Trucking company (based in Indio, California). The illegal alien had been deported from the U.S. a total of 16 times, the first removal occurring in May 2002 after being arrested in Oregon on local charges in April of that year. (Breitbart News, June 17, 2024; CBS Austin, June 19, 2024) On June 17, Venezuelan nationals Johan Jose Rangel Martinez and Franklin Jose Pena Ramos (ages 21 and 26) allegedly raped and strangled 12-year-old Jocelyn Nungaray to death in Houston, Texas, leaving her body in a local creek. (Breitbart News, June 20, 2024; Fox News, July 2, 2024) On June 19, Mexican national Ulises Raigoz-Martinez killed Matthew Carney in a hit-and-run crash in Nashville, Tennessee, and subsequently escaped in the hope of evading arrest. He entered the U.S. illegally as a “gotaway” at an unspecified time, but Breitbart News pointed out that “Raigoz-Martinez has a lengthy criminal record. In March, Davidson County Judge Tim Todd reportedly dismissed three charges against the illegal alien. It is unclear why Raigoz-Martinez was not turned over to ICE agents following his prior arrests.” (Breitbart News, July 25, 2024; Local 3 News, July 25, 2024) On June 24, Guatemalan national Enrique Lopez Gomez allegedly killed 21-month-old Anilson Mauricio Perez Gomez in Chester County, Pennsylvania. Lopez Gomez was watching the boy and allegedly struck him in the abdomen. According to Breitbart news, “[t]he child’s mother picked him up sometime after and brought him to her sister’s house where Anilson became unconscious. Lopez Gomez arrived at the residence and performed a Guatemalan healing ritual on Anilson before leaving” instead of calling 911. The 20-year-old illegal alien had been reportedly living in Chester County, Pennsylvania, for five years. (Fox 29 Philadelphia, June 27, 2024; Breitbart News, July 2, 2024) On June 30, Honduran national Joshua Aviala-Bonifacio (19) – along with two unnamed males, ages 17 and 15 – allegedly killed Kristie Thibodeaux, a French Quarter guide, in New Orleans, Louisiana, during an attempted robbery. Aviala-Bonifacio was initially encountered by USBP on May 11, 2019, in Texas, and deemed inadmissible but was nevertheless released on an order of recognizance three days later. He was later arrested in Kenner, Louisiana, on October 6, 2023, for theft, and on February 14, 2024 for contributing to the delinquency of juveniles. (TheBlaze.com, July 11, 2024; New York Post, July 11, 2024) May On May 2, Guatemalan national Marvin Perez Lopez allegedly kidnapped and sexually assaulted an 11-year-old girl in his van in Palm Beach County, Florida. Although the 20-year-old Perez Lopez tried to keep the girl in his van by force, she managed to escape once her mother banged on the car door and confronted him. When police tracked the illegal alien down at his residence, he attempted to flee. Perez Lopez entered the U.S. illegally in January 2024, surrendered himself to USBP, was given an immigration court date in 2027, and was released into the country by DHS. (WPTV.com, May 6, 2024; Breitbart News, May 6, 2024) On May 8, police in Frederick County, Virginia, arrested Salvadoran national David Antonio Calderon for allegedly murdering a woman after firefighters found her body while extinguishing a burning couch on May 6 in Berkeley County, West Virginia. In April, Calderon had also randomly attacked two homeless people with a baseball bat, seriously injuring both of them, in Jefferson County, West Virginia. Calderon had spent over two decades – between January 1999 and August 2021 – in prison in El Salvador for crimes such as drunk driving, sexual assault, murder, aggravated robbery, and drug-related offenses. After being released, he apparently made his way north, attempting to claim asylum in Canada while crossing the U.S. northern border into that country in March 2023. The Canadians rejected his request and handed him over to DHS, and DHS simply released him into the U.S. with an NTA. (Breitbart News, May 28, 2024; Fox News, May 28, 2024) On May 15, in Pritzker Park in Chicago, Illinois, Venezuelan national Carlos Mavarez Viloria was arrested by Cook County Sheriff’s deputies for a string of crimes. He fought and resisted arrest, causing one officer to sustain hand and arm injuries. This was the final of ten arrests for a series of crimes committed by Mavarez Viloria since July 12, 2023, including pulling a gun on a convenience store clerk, possessing a crack pipe, and several instances of shoplifting. The illegal alien arrived in Chicago ten months before the May 15 arrest and resided at the Standard Club migrant shelter in downtown Chicago. (CWBChicago.com, May 27, 2024; Breitbart News, May 28, 2024) On May 18, Venezuelan national Jhoiber De Jesus Marin-Perez was arrested in Gainesville, Florida, for allegedly sexually molesting a boy under the age of 12. The two were apparently sharing a bed in the same room with several other people while staying with the boy’s family in one residence. The boy later told other adults in the home about the assault. It is unknown when Marin-Perez entered the U.S., but it has been reported that he had been living at the residence in question for one month prior to the incident. Following his arrest, the illegal alien attempted to defend himself by claiming that he was bisexual. He said he had not had any sexual partners since arriving in the U.S., and that he may have fallen victim to accusations because he had previously been accused of ###### two girls in Venezuela. (Alachua Chronicle, May 19, 2024; Breitbart, May 21, 2024) On May 20, Mexican national Giovanni Mendoza-Jimenez was driving a van speeding, driving without a license, and failed to stop for a school bus in Lexington, South Carolina. This led to him allegedly hitting and killing retired Marine Jon Douglas Ratcliffe, who was riding his motorcycle, pinning him between his own vehicle and the school bus. The bus driver and one passenger sustained minor injuries as well. (X post by the Lexington, South Carolina Police Department, May 22, 2024; Breitbart News, May 24, 2024) On May 22, ICE ERO Boston captured Colombian national Rigberto Hoyos-Alban in Cranston, Rhode Island. He was charged with four counts of sexual assault and one count of assaulting someone with a mental handicap. These stem from an incident on March 13, when Hoyos-Alban allegedly raped a woman with severe mental impairments in Central Falls, Rhode Island. ICE was forced to arrest the illegal alien because the Rhode Island Adult Correctional Institute ignored an ICE detainer and released the dangerous criminal alien on March 14. According to the ICE press release, “U.S. Border Patrol arrested Hoyos-Alban near Rio Grande Valley, Texas, Nov. 21, 2023, after he unlawfully entered the United States without having been inspected, admitted or paroled by a U.S. immigration official. Border Patrol officials issued Hoyos-Alban a notice to appear before a Department of Justice immigration judge and released Hoyos-Alban on his own recognizance.” (ICE.gov, June 6, 2024) April On April 1, police in Hamilton, Ohio, were called and found the body of a man, subsequently arresting Mexican national Fermin Garcia-Gutierrez as the alleged killer. According to Butler County Sheriff Richard Jones, Garcia-Gutierrez’s first U.S. arrest occurred in 2001, and the illegal alien has used at least seven different names and three different dates of birth. He was also a gang member. In addition, Garcia-Gutierrez had been deported from the U.S. seven times and, at one point, also ordered to return back to Mexico during an illegal border crossing. He was also arrested in Hamilton, on unrelated charges in March, but was apparently released back into the community. (DailyWire.com, April 4, 2024; Fox News, April 5, 2024) On April 1, Haitian national Kenol Baptiste fatally stabbed his two roommates in an apartment complex in Middletown, New York. Baptiste illegally entered the U.S. approximately 8 months before the murder – after booking an appointment via the CBP One app and being paroled in – and was awaiting a deportation hearing. (New York Post, April 5, 2024; Fox News, April 17, 2024) On April 2, Honduran national Jose Pavon-Fermin was indicted by a federal grand jury in New Haven, Connecticut, for failing to register as a sex offender and reentering the U.S. illegally. He had previously been ordered to register as a sex offender after luring and ###### a woman in Norwalk, Connecticut. For this he was sentenced in 2018 to 10 years in jail (suspended after serving 4.5 years, along with 10 years of probation and a lifetime sex offender registration requirement). In June 2021 the illegal alien rapist was handed over to ICE and deported to Honduras, but subsequently reentered the U.S. illegally as a “gotaway” (i.e. undetected by CBP) and was arrested in January 2023 in Norwalk for disturbing the peace. He had also failed to register as a sex offender, but was released rather than being handed over to ICE. Pavon-Fermin was on the run until his arrest in Virginia in early March 2024. (U.S. Department of Justice, April 2, 2024; Breitbart News, April 3, 2024) On April 3, Guatemalan national Jairo Perez was arrested for allegedly spying on girls in a women’s bathroom at a Walmart in D’Iberville, Mississippi, and charged with three counts of voyeurism. According to WLOX news, “[t]he girls ran out of the bathroom to tell [their mother], then she went into the restroom and opened the stall to find [Perez] in the process of securing his pants.” (WLOX, April 4, 2024; Breitbart News, April 8, 2024) On April 5, Mexican national Isauro Garcia Cruz (43) was sentenced in Bedford County, Virginia, to 12 months in prison (6 of them suspended) for sex crimes with a minor, a 15-year-old Unaccompanied Alien Child (UAC) from Honduras. According to Breitbart News, the matter began in February, when “law enforcement in Virginia and Ohio began investigating Cruz after the teenage girl (…) was abducted. Law enforcement ultimately found the girl, and Cruz, in Bedford County. The girl’s adult sponsor is reportedly the girlfriend of Cruz.” (ABC13 News, April 5, 2024; Breitbart News, April 9, 2024) On April 8, illegal alien Gilver Yuviny Zelaya Diaz was driving without a license in Montgomery County, Maryland, and fatally struck Jacques Price who was skateboarding at the time. Zelaya Diaz then fled the scene and had to be tracked down several days later. “According to prosecutors,” states Breitbart News, “Diaz is an illegal alien who was on probation at the time of the fatal crash. Diaz had been recently released from federal prison and prosecutors said he has failed to appear in court on five separate occasions. Diaz was previously arrested on drug charges as well as assault and armed robbery. Despite his being an illegal alien in the United States since 2019, according to prosecutors, he was never deported.” (Fox News, April 28, 2024; Breitbart News, April 29, 2024) On April 13, Guatemalan national Ricardo Agustin Lorenzo allegedly fatally stabbed fellow Guatemalan illegal migrant Bilder Pablo at a Days Inn hotel in Wildwood, Florida, and was hiding in nearby woods in the hope of evading the police. (FOX35 Orlando, April 17, 2024; WEAR News ABC3, April 18, 2024) On April 17, ICE ERO Boston arrested an unnamed illegal alien from Ecuador in Hartford, Connecticut, who had been convicted of second degree assault and indecent assault of a child in that state. The Ecuadorian was apprehended in Texas by USBP after crossing the southern border illegally in May 2015. He received an NTA, and, in August 2015, an immigration judge released him with an order of recognizance on a surety bond. On March 13, 2020, he was arrested in Danbury, Connecticut, for second-degree assault and assault with risk of injury to a child. In January 2022, the Connecticut Superior Court in Danbury sentenced the illegal alien to five years in state prison, but subsequently lessened the sentence to five years of probation and released the convicted child rapist without notifying ICE. In May 2023, he was again arrested, for third-degree assault and violating his probation, and was sentenced by the Connecticut Superior Court to one year in prison in January 2024, but the court once again recued the sentence to probation (three years) and released the illegal alien while ignoring ICE. (ICE.gov, April 24, 2024) On April 24, Guatemalan national Angel Gabriel Cuz-Choc brutally stabbed to death his girlfriend Amalia Coc Choc de Pec and her 4-year-old daughter, Estrella Anastasia Pec Coc, in Hillsborough County, Florida. According to Sheriff Chad Chronister, “[d]eputies arrived on scene and immediately discovered that it was an extremely gruesome scene. (…) An adult female laying in the backyard of the house in her own puddle of blood. A bloody handprint that we believe was hers and she was fighting for her life trying to escape the violence.” Cuz-Choc escaped and attempted to hide in the woods but was apprehended. According to Sheriff Chronister, the three illegal aliens – the killer and his victims – enter the U.S. approximately seven months before the gruesome murder. (Breitbart News, April 26, 2024; CIS.org, May 2, 2024)
https://www.fairus.org/issue/examples-serious-crimes-illegal-aliens
Etc.
What was the question again?
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TigerNet Legend [145295]
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Ah, we've gotten to the standard point in the discussion
Nov 12, 2024, 9:22 AM
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where you pretend to care about people you've never met because it's politically expedient for your argument.
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Clemson Icon [24010]
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Re: Ah, we've gotten to the standard point in the discussion
Nov 12, 2024, 9:39 AM
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That's it....he wins.
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TigerNet Legend [145295]
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You ever see RP make a single post about a white person murdering somebody
Nov 12, 2024, 10:11 AM
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he's never met, but that he totally cares about? Weird, right? There's a whole lot more of those happening in this country, but for some reason, he doesn't share them with us.
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Ultimate Tiger [36001]
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Campus Hero [13175]
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Oculus Spirit [41647]
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Tiger Titan [45999]
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Here's where people can't have conversations with y'all on this
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Nov 12, 2024, 9:11 AM
[ in reply to You are correct. ] |
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Everyone here acknowledges immigration is a problem and it needs to be fixed. But how that happens has to be smart; we have a ###### up situation that's been created by multiple administrations and you can't just un-fuck it by taking drastic action.
You want to just rip every single one of those ag workers out immediately without thinking of consequences or plans after the fact. And when people point out this flaw, y'all wave your hands around and say absolutely idiotic things like "Slave labor!"
We all agree it needs to be fixed. I agree with you that people need to be sent back home. It needs to be done intelligently and not drastically.
You know... burning down the house when you have a pest problem instead of taking a more surgical approach.
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Tiger Titan [49425]
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If only there was a bi-partisan bill ready to be passed through both houses
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Nov 12, 2024, 9:25 AM
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until a presidential candidate told his guys to kill it so he could run on it not being fixed.
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TigerNet Legend [145295]
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Please. Nobody who actually loves America would kill such a bipartisan bill.***
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Nov 12, 2024, 9:26 AM
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Oculus Spirit [39094]
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That bill didnt fix anything.
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Nov 12, 2024, 9:35 AM
[ in reply to If only there was a bi-partisan bill ready to be passed through both houses ] |
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It allowed for more border crossings and contained a clause that allowed POTUS to ignore the provisions when they saw fit. It existed solely as a political stunt. Either Democrats could pretend they had fixed and issue they don’t want to fix while actually doing nothing or they could scream about how Trump killed a bipartisan solution that wasn’t a solution.
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TigerNet Legend [145295]
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It did NOT allow for more border crossings.
Nov 12, 2024, 9:47 AM
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I can't tell if you're being disingenuous or if you just don't understand what the provisions in the bill actually were.
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Oculus Spirit [39094]
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It withheld the emergency authority
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Nov 12, 2024, 10:42 AM
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until an arbitrary number of "encounters" were reach on a daily or weekly basis. And once again, allowed POTUS to ignore that emergency authority at their whim.
The American Immigration Council (not exactly a right-wing organization) stated in its overview that the bill would do nothing to bring the numbers down, and would in fact result in confusion at the border leaving an opening for traffickers.
https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/research/analysis-senate-border-bill
By creating two different sets of border policy depending on whether the emergency authority was in effect or not—without declaring whether it was in effect at any given time—the bill would increase confusion at the U.S./Mexico border. Border Patrol agents, U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) asylum officers and migrants themselves would be left uncertain on a day-to-day basis about which set of rules was in effect. Confusion about border policies is easily exploited by human smugglers, who encourage people to come to the U.S. quickly if there are threats that the border is about to be “shut down.”
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Tiger Titan [45999]
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But there was NOTHING before that...
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Nov 12, 2024, 10:49 AM
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That would allow a complete border shutdown in such a case; this created steps to allow that.
Y'all falsely twisted it into "der herp it allows more border crossings!" No, it would have resulted in a complete border shutdown after the crossings that are already happening and are still happening exceeded a set number.
Now, we're still in a situation with no guardrails. It wasn't a perfect fix, but it at least permitted shutting down the border completely--even to asylum seekers--if the threshold was met.
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Oculus Spirit [39094]
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The fact that it permitted it instead of mandating it
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Nov 12, 2024, 10:54 AM
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is part of the problem. If the stunt had worked, the bill passed and Biden or Harris won re-election campaigning on them "fixing" the border through this bill, the authority would have been summarily ignored thereafter. If Democrats had wanted to address the border they wouldn't have waited until the edge of campaign season to try. The idea that *I* am the one being disingenuous given that obvious reality is hilarious.
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Tiger Titan [45999]
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Re: The fact that it permitted it instead of mandating it
Nov 12, 2024, 11:14 AM
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If Democrats had wanted to address the border they wouldn't have waited until the edge of campaign season to try.
One of the three authors of the bill was a Republican, and it had Republican support until Trump stepped in...
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Oculus Spirit [39094]
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Not relevant to my point.***
Nov 12, 2024, 12:51 PM
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Tiger Titan [45999]
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But relevant to the discussion
Nov 12, 2024, 1:50 PM
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It was both parties trying to do SOMETHING to stop the bleeding, although not perfect.
Trump came in and ###### it up for selfish reasons. That's it.
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Tiger Titan [45999]
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This is a lie
Nov 12, 2024, 10:03 AM
[ in reply to That bill didnt fix anything. ] |
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It allowed for more border crossings.
This part. Now, I'm not calling you a liar--you're just repeating the lie that was created over twisting facts regarding number of border crossings.
It absolutely didn't allow for more border crossings, and I challenge you to prove it.
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Oculus Spirit [39094]
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It set an arbitrary number of encounters on a daily or weekly basis
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Nov 12, 2024, 10:45 AM
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that, until reached, nothing would change. It also allowed the emergency protocol to be ignored by POTUS at his/her whim, making it essentially meaningless under the Democratic leadership they no doubt expected to continue past Jan 20, 2025.
So yes, in a pedantic sense, it didn't allow for more crossings. In a practical sense, it absolutely did and did nothing to actually bring the number of crossings down. It was a nothing bill designed only to be a talking point regardless of its success or failure in the Senate.
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Tiger Titan [45999]
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Y'all are missing the point
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Nov 12, 2024, 10:51 AM
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The crossings still continue past that number because the bill was defeated. The bill allowed some kind of stoppage. It was a start and it wasn't the end all, be all. Killing the bill kept the problem catastrophic.
And--and I don't care how anyone spins it--it was killed for Trump's political desires, not for practicality. This is proven given the people who turned on the bill after Trump demanded it.
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Rival Killer [2954]
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Re: Nobody is demanding illegal immigration, you simpleton.
Nov 12, 2024, 12:14 PM
[ in reply to Nobody is demanding illegal immigration, you simpleton. ] |
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To be fair I know many guys that own lawn maintenance businesses. They are all citizens and so are their employees. Maybe that’s just specific to my area.
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Tiger Titan [45999]
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I'm sure you have a solid plan for...
Nov 12, 2024, 7:58 AM
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Replacing that workforce with increased pay while also keeping prices down. Let's hear it.
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All-In [10811]
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Re: wE mUSt aLloW iLLEgaL imMiGraTiOn or weLl STaRvE!
Nov 12, 2024, 7:59 AM
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if american workers make too much money they leave the plantation
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Ultimate Tiger [36191]
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Well, they do love slave wages...***
Nov 12, 2024, 8:16 AM
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CU Medallion [19702]
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And the masses hate inflation
Nov 12, 2024, 9:26 AM
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So wages will rise to bring in US workers to chicken processing plants, and lawn care, and etc etc. Great - their wages will rise. But home prices, poultry, cost of pretty green grass rises.
I'm not worried though about inflation. Trump is going to drill the #### out of everything as if he was down in Fantasy Fest in Key West. That will cure all economic woes.
Yea Trump!
I will say if Rubio is Secretary of State ... my neocon/neoliberal junk just moved a bit.
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Oculus Spirit [39094]
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You cant deport them! We arent done exploiting them yet
Nov 12, 2024, 9:25 AM
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Seems to be the message.
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TigerNet Legend [145295]
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You're aware of how silly this is.***
Nov 12, 2024, 9:26 AM
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Oculus Spirit [39094]
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Im aware you have more nuanced arguments
Nov 12, 2024, 9:38 AM
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But this is the siren being sounded on the left whether you like/believe it or not.
“Who’s going to do menial labor for less than minimum wage?!?”
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TigerNet Legend [145295]
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Trump won the election because of the economy and inflation.
Nov 12, 2024, 9:45 AM
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Just as every sitting leader and administration in the developed world who was in place when Covid hit is no longer in power. Right or wrong, the existing leadership was blamed for global inflation.
Now, if that's true (and it is), and the Democrats lost the election because of the price of hot dogs....are we really going to minimize the impact of "menial labor for less than minumum wage" on prices and a precarious inflation rate?
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Oculus Spirit [39094]
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This is the pro-worker party?
Nov 12, 2024, 10:50 AM
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Calling for the continued open exploitation of vulnerable labor groups and simultaneously reducing the number of jobs available to legal American citizens? WTAF?
The one issue that Donald Trump has unequivocally owned since bursting onto the political scene in 2016 is illegal immigration, and while there were a lot of factors in his victory a week ago, undoubtedly a large percentage of those who voted for him expect him to address his main issue. The rest of the conversation and knock on effects are secondary.
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TigerNet Legend [145295]
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OK, back to square 1.
Nov 12, 2024, 12:13 PM
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People aren't calling for continued exploitation of illegal labor. They're calling for capacity and capability to make that labor legal. And with unemployment at 4%, give or take depending on the month, American workers aren't lined up for roofing and vegetable picking jobs, bruh. They aren't lined up for those jobs when unemployment is at 15%, either.
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Tiger Titan [45999]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Dude.
Nov 12, 2024, 11:07 AM
[ in reply to Im aware you have more nuanced arguments ] |
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You were one of the biggest leftists this board ever saw. Somewhere along the way, you started worshipping Trump. You didn't magically become conservative; you kept the ideology and switched to a politician who, deep in his core, pushes big government leftism.
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Oculus Spirit [39094]
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I was a liberal. I am a liberal.
Nov 13, 2024, 1:14 AM
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I dabbled briefly in progressivism in my youth until I realized they were actual communists.
The only issue I’ve changed my mind on is abortion (pro-lifers make better arguments and don’t have to rely on rhetorical sleight of hand). And it is not and was not a top deciding issue for me in any election. I hated, and still hate, the Bush/Cheney neocons who are now cozy in the Democratic Party. Free speech absolutist, weary of government overreach (so I like the 2nd), against sending our kids overseas without just cause…none of it has changed for me.
I simply think you are way wrong about how Trump governs. He’s essentially Bill Clinton (who deported a few million immigrants in his day, by the by), but instead of having the propaganda machine covering for him, they pounce and twist his every word. He is not aspirational, except in his grit and determination against every facet of the machine. His character is questionable. He is decisive and I agree with those decisions by and large. He believed the 2020 election was stolen from him and looking at the bar graphs and scrutinizing the events makes it easy to see why. Mysterious pipes bursting followed by suitcases being taken out from under tables. 3AM ballot dumps that were 80-90% Biden. His reaction was not what I’d have preferred (politics is dirty, if you get outcheated, you suck it up and fight another day) but he told people to make their voices heard peacefully. The unarmed crowd that gathered to protest on his behalf overstepped. They achieved nothing but delaying the proceedings by a few hours. They deserved punishment. They did not deserve the level of punishment they got, but if you fight the machine you have to go all in or you get what you get. Calling it an insurrection is hyperbolic nonsense, but predictable from a propaganda apparatus desperate to delegitimize the one politician they don’t control totally.
I say all that to say this. I do not worship Donald Trump. I do not make messiahs of political leaders. I think he’s the best president in my lifetime (low bar) and I’m ecstatic that he gets another four years to at least delay the pilfering and destruction of our great nation by bureaucrats and leftists. If there are authoritarians in our government, they are not MAGA republicans but those who call for censorship of social media to protect their propaganda from being exposed. Those who stand on the corpses of dead children to demand we give up our god given right to self defense. Those who would weaken and exhaust our military by constantly shipping them out to chase ghosts across the globe.
I believe you have been lied to thoroughly and your perspective of our president elect is almost entirely false. That’s the core of our many disagreements.
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Campus Hero [13979]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Not me - my Mexican lawn guy is here legally...
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Nov 12, 2024, 11:23 AM
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Call me silly, but I remember a time when most Americans used to cut their own grass or hire a local teenager to do it. In fact - that is how I used to earn my spending money as a teenager - cutting multiple lawns. Maybe we can kick our little entitled snowflakes off the couch and have them, dare I say it, do some lawn work.
Geesh... Democrats wanting to keep their personal cheap, illegal labor in tact while screaming "WE DEMAND WE PAY OUR WORKERS A LIVING WAGE" is rich...
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110%er [4056]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Not me - my Mexican lawn guy is here legally...
Nov 12, 2024, 1:19 PM
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It could be fun riding through some college town watching people cut grass in Birkenstock sandals. But on the other hand, surely they don’t expect me, a Trump voter , to cut my own grass??
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Hall of Famer [8261]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: wE mUSt aLloW iLLEgaL imMiGraTiOn or weLl STaRvE!
Nov 13, 2024, 5:23 AM
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It will hurt the economy, but something does have to be done about the border. Trying to round them all up and deport all illegals will be a trainwreck, futile, and is utterly as silly as Mexico paying for our wall. We can clamp down on the border and increase deportations, as well as offering illegals no financial aid of any type.
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110%er [4056]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: wE mUSt aLloW iLLEgaL imMiGraTiOn or weLl STaRvE!
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Nov 13, 2024, 5:50 AM
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Yeah there’s no way they are all going to be sent back home. But we start by sending as many of the criminals that we can catch back home. Technically they are all criminals for entering illegally but you know what I mean. Close the border right. Cut off all aid of any kind to illegals. Make the gravy train end and word goes “back home” that the party is over. They will tell their friends if you come here and are lucky enough to sneak in there will be no aid and if you’re caught you’re going home and all the effort is wasted. Make sure they know if they get in they are going to live in the shadows until they eventually get caught. Do all of this and the dang caravan parties of the current administration stop.
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