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Solid Orange [1398]
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Watson v. Stoudt
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Sep 5, 2024, 4:10 PM
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To follow up on my post about QB play. In 2014 Watson lit it up before being injured. Offense was on fire. Stoudt comes back and offense goes off the rails.
All that changed was the QB.
Obviously, we have had lots of bust at WR, etc. but don't tell me this team would not have been a lot better offense with Watson running things.
So is it scheme, players, lack of accurate/Consistent QB?
It probably some of all but I don't think we would be talking so much about scheme, WR play if had someone like Deshuan, Trevor at the helm.
But again, I do agree on coaches to adapt scheme to talent you. Much like Elliot and Scott did for Stoudt for Oklahoma bowl game (2014)
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Paw Warrior [4772]
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Re: Watson v. Stoudt
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Sep 5, 2024, 4:15 PM
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Stoudt did not fit the scheme. Not mobile enough to run alot of the same plays to keep defenses worried about him running.
The issue is scheme needing to have a 1st round QB to run your "scheme" means you don't have a sustainable scheme.
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Solid Orange [1398]
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Re: Watson v. Stoudt
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Sep 5, 2024, 4:18 PM
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HE has not accurate either. See FSU goal line, throw in dirt to Leggett. Dabo has always said accuracy is number one thing he looks for in QB.
WSJ today also had article that mentioned passing efficiency is one of most critical stats in football.
Sure mobility puts a lot of pressure on Defense. But Tom Brady won 7 titles, getting the ball out quick and on target.
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Solid Orange [1398]
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Re: Watson v. Stoudt
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Sep 5, 2024, 4:19 PM
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I would agree having to have generational QBs to run your offense is a major issue.
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Game Day Hero [4518]
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Re: Watson v. Stoudt
Sep 5, 2024, 8:02 PM
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We made the playoffs with Kelly Bryant...
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Paw Warrior [4772]
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Re: Watson v. Stoudt
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Sep 5, 2024, 4:26 PM
[ in reply to Re: Watson v. Stoudt ] |
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My point remains. You can't expect a generational QB to walk through those doors every year. Yes the QB can be the issue if he can't do what you are asking of him. Don't expect things to change with a QB change bc every defense that has decent athletes is going to do the same thing and if you don't change how you attack the defense it won't matter. UGA did not worry about the middle of the field at all they were content attacking the sidelines aggressively. They did nothing novel on defense, it's the exact same style defense teams have been trotting out there for 4 years and Clemson keeps trying to attack exactly where they strength of the defense is.
Put the annointed 3rd string QB that 90% of this board groaned about being a scholarship player on the roster in January out there and nothing will change bc this is a scheme/playcalling issue.
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Solid Orange [1398]
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Re: Watson v. Stoudt
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Sep 5, 2024, 4:34 PM
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By why are we not attacking middle of field? Is it because of scheme or they don't trust the QB play? That is million dollar question.
We sure attacked middle of field with Hunter Renfro, Leggett etc. Was it because we had them or we had QBs we trusted ?
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Legend [6907]
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or does QB not target middle of field even if it is an option
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Sep 5, 2024, 4:58 PM
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lot of bad things can happen over middle of field. If you are hesitant in your ability or your wideouts, you probably make the safer throw.
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Paw Warrior [4772]
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Re: or does QB not target middle of field even if it is an option
Sep 5, 2024, 7:06 PM
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Yea I don't doubt that's the logic but it definitely makes things easier when you don't have to worry about mismatches over the middle for a defense. You're basically letting the front 7 play free of worry that anything will pop over their heads. Now all they need to do is rally to the screens and stay gap sound on runs. They play downhill all game.
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Rival Killer [2776]
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Re: Watson v. Stoudt
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Sep 5, 2024, 4:43 PM
[ in reply to Re: Watson v. Stoudt ] |
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I think you go too far with the expectation on the QB. I don't think we absolutely need to have a DW4/TLaw level QB. Put Tajh Boyd in there (who couldn't get drafted) and we are stretching the defense, limiting big mistakes, protecting the football, and threatening the defense as a runner and passer at QB
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Solid Orange [1398]
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Re: Watson v. Stoudt
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Sep 5, 2024, 4:48 PM
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Not saying have to have just Watson or Lawrence. I would be curious to see what a Tajh could do. But our QB play had not even been average.
Again, is it scheme or lack of confidence in QB that we don't use middle of field ?
I still have hope for Cade but I firmly believe DJ could have had Jerry Butler, Dwight Clark, SAmmie, Nuke, Martavis, Hunter and not sure how much of a difference it made. Not even they can catch balls in the dirt.
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Dynasty Maker [3134]
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Re: Watson v. Stoudt
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Sep 5, 2024, 4:29 PM
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Watson significantly outperformed stoudt in the year they both played. Same exact skill players and oline, yet our offense looked like crap under stoudt, and looked great under deshaun. Contrary to what the experts say on here, qb is our biggest issue.
Stoudt: 63.2% completion rate, Yards per attempt 6.3, TD: 9, interceptions: 10
Watson: 67.9% completion rate, 10.7 yards per attempt, TD 14, INT: 2
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Paw Warrior [4772]
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Re: Watson v. Stoudt
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Sep 5, 2024, 4:35 PM
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So you're saying Clemson has to have generational QB play to be good?
Pretty funny when you look at some of these teams that are able to win by scheme as opposed to having generational talent. I'm not gonna argue you need talent and QB play is super important but you're doing your QB a huge disservice by asking him to be perfect and throw the ball only to 2/3s of the field.
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Solid Orange [1398]
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Re: Watson v. Stoudt
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Sep 5, 2024, 4:41 PM
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I am saying hard to evaluate scheme and a lot of things with not even average QB play. I mean we literally may as well have been 1970s Oklahoma in last year USuck game. Dabo basically told coaches after some Cade first half passes. Just run the ball and play defense and not even risk throwing.
I wish I knew the answer.
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Paw Warrior [4772]
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Re: Watson v. Stoudt
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Sep 5, 2024, 4:46 PM
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It's been the same scheme since 2019. The generational talent left to the NFL and now the scheme has shown its not sustainable in its current state without superman at QB. Teams have nailed down how to play Clemson, as long as they have the athletes they are just fully committing to taking away anything outside the hashes. Even Trevor got victimized by this against LSU and Ohio St this might even indicate Superman QBs can't even make this thing go anymore.
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Solid Orange [1398]
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Re: Watson v. Stoudt
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Sep 5, 2024, 4:58 PM
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Well whatever scheme they go with you will need a solid QB (not necessarily generational) to trigger the offense. Just like teams that win NCAA tournament it all starts with the PG. Basketball is now mostly a game of guards ( a few exceptions) and football is more about QB than it has ever been, as passing is bigger part of the game.
Sure scheme can help a QB but whatever scheme you chose you will only be average without a QB who can distribute the ball. Conner Shaw and Stetson Bennett where not overly talented (not generational QBs) but just could make things happen.
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Paw Warrior [4772]
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Re: Watson v. Stoudt
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Sep 5, 2024, 5:03 PM
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That's bc the schemes were very qb friendly and thats my entire argument.
Idk what Cade is or what these wrs are capable of bc they are asked to run in to the strength of the defense everytime it's a passing situation. The wrs and QB need better coaching on the small things too I won't argue that. Cade has definitely got things he alone needs to improve on, his footwork and timing is not helping him at times. So don't get it twisted I do think he needs to get better or someone else should get a look but I don't see much changing when Clemson plays other well built teams regardless of who is the qb.
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Game Changer [1919]
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Re: Watson v. Stoudt
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Sep 5, 2024, 5:05 PM
[ in reply to Re: Watson v. Stoudt ] |
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One thing that ISN'T the same now is the absence of the QB run threat, which was a central part of the scheme during our heyday.
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Recruit [66]
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110%er [3727]
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Re: Watson v. Stoudt
Sep 5, 2024, 6:41 PM
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Stoudt did pretty well when he had three weeks for his shoulder to finally heal. He was fun to watch that night!
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National Champion [7749]
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Re: Watson v. Stoudt
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Sep 5, 2024, 6:33 PM
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It's 30% QB play vs 70% WR play.
Cade is not Deshaun or Trevor, that's obvious. But he's I think he is more than capable of being a good college QB/game manager type of guy.
Our WRs are terrible though. We do not have a vertical threat. Cole Turner is supposed to be the fastest guy in the room, and on the team for that matter. But he certainly doesn't play fast. Adam Randall refuses to high point the ball. Both of them are totally ineffective. When they are on the field, we are basically playing with 10. They can't create separation consistently, nor can they win 50/50 balls consistently. Defenses force our passing game to beat them outside the hashes, but we can't. Cade's deep ball isn't consistent enough and our WRs are bad.
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Paw Warrior [4772]
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Re: Watson v. Stoudt
Sep 5, 2024, 6:59 PM
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The sad thing is I really believe both wrs could be solid rotational guys but the way they are coached right now they can only be called liabilities.
Randall impressed me with hid willingness to block though, maybe a move to TE?
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Tiger Titan [48541]
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Evidently Stoudt learned a lot
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Sep 5, 2024, 6:40 PM
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about the WR position. Now he’s coaching it.
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All-In [11021]
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Re: Watson v. Stoudt
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Sep 5, 2024, 6:55 PM
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And where was Watson’s first throw when he came into the game. Seem route, right up the has. None of this sideline or check down crap.
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Replies: 23
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