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Team Captain [494]
TigerPulse: 99%
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Unpopular opinion? I don't want to leave the ACC
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Aug 4, 2023, 10:56 AM
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So here's my take, and I get that I'm in the minority here, but I love college football - or, at least, what it used to be. If this is "old man shouting at clouds", forgive me.
To me, watching Clemson play on fall Saturdays takes me back to the days of living on campus, the band marching down the street next to my dorm, then joining the crush of people and packing the hill to the gills. We weren't great back then, but man, it was fun. We played tough games against GT, NC State, typically lost to FSU (but not always!), even Wake. Every year, things change, but also stay the same. We continue to play these folks, and we win more than we lose, which is fun. We can go to away games where we know the town a bit, and can (mostly) drive there without issue.
To me, that's college football. It's not a giant pay-to-win, national, tv-rights game like the NFL. It's regional, it has history, and it means something in our souls.
As things have progressed, and all that matters is TV Rights and bigger contracts, this is going away fast. Even the fans want to jump for more money. It's all turned into another pawn of mega-corporations. Which is inevitable I guess, but it isn't what I love about College Football. I don't want to play Michigan State and Penn State every year. Or Ole Miss and Vanderbilt. They mean nothing to me.
And last, the money. I get that a lot of folks want us to be in the SEC, have the biggest contract, and cement ourselves among the giants. But then we're just another Alabama, or Georgia, or LSU. But we AREN'T them. We're Clemson. We're the scrappy little school in the upstate that's never had as much, has never had the big contract, doesn't have the #1 recruiting class or biggest facilities, but somehow upsets the big guys and just keeps winning. That's who we are. And we can keep doing that in the ACC, with our history, and with conference stability. We're Clemson. We're different, and that's a good thing.
Sorry for the long post, and feel free to tell me I'm behind the times. I probably am.
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Paw Master [17358]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Sadly, the college football we knew & loved is gone forever
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Aug 4, 2023, 11:11 AM
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It used to be about loyalty, love of school, and tradition. Now it’s about greed, love of money, and arms races. Coaches, players, and even fans are all now free agents.
I am old enough to remember when pro sports leagues were fixtures, tied by tradition to their local communities by tradition. Coaches and players spent entire careers with a single team. Once free agency and greed took over the NFL, we still had college football.
I agree with the Washington coach, what have we done?
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Varsity [105]
TigerPulse: 94%
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Re: Sadly, the college football we knew & loved is gone forever
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Aug 4, 2023, 1:53 PM
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There is no loyalty in the acc. With the revenue split loyalty will get you left behind
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Varsity [134]
TigerPulse: 97%
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Re: Sadly, the college football we knew & loved is gone forever
Aug 5, 2023, 10:02 PM
[ in reply to Sadly, the college football we knew & loved is gone forever ] |
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I am also old enough to remember when NFL players were tied to a for their whole career. That was great for the team and the fans, not so much for the players. There was greed the the NFL before free agency, but it was the owners greed.
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Clemson Conqueror [11849]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Unpopular opinion? I don't want to leave the ACC
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Aug 4, 2023, 11:12 AM
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I really don't either. I just want to make the ACC stronger. I think the answer is to somehow get Notre Dame to join as a full member and use their leverage, as well as some creative thinking, to significantly increase revenue to the member schools. Also, it is important that schools like Miami, VT, and a couple of others commit to raising their level of commitment to improving their football programs. Of course, easier said than done, but I would hope there are some really smart people in place who have some answers or plans.
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Commissioner [1263]
TigerPulse: 97%
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Re: Unpopular opinion? I don't want to leave the ACC
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Aug 4, 2023, 1:25 PM
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I really don't either. I just want to make the ACC stronger. I think the answer is to somehow get Notre Dame to join as a full member and use their leverage, as well as some creative thinking, to significantly increase revenue to the member schools. Also, it is important that schools like Miami, VT, and a couple of others commit to raising their level of commitment to improving their football programs. Of course, easier said than done, but I would hope there are some really smart people in place who have some answers or plans.
I’ve said for years. ND and Navy
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110%er [3980]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Unpopular opinion? I don't want to leave the ACC
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Aug 4, 2023, 11:18 AM
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In the good old days that was ideal. What the ACC is going to become and everyone except the B1G, SEC and Big 12 is what used to be called Division II, or maybe Division IA. If you are happy with that, that's fine. The reason your opinion will be unpopular is probably the vast majority or the fans are "spoiled" and won't be happy with that. My son went to a Div. III school and played there. I can tell you that except for no band and far reduced tailgating the excitement and enjoyment/disappointment over the result was the same.
Can "The Clemson Family" survive as a Tier II program, of course it can. Will the quality of the play be the same be the same, of course not. Will distant alumni such as myself get to see many games on TV, of course not. In short it is a "pick your poison" type of situation.
Just the way I see things going.
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Paw Master [17358]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Valid points, and I have given thought to
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Aug 4, 2023, 11:24 AM
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Clemson as a dominant player in a second tier division vs Clemson abandoning tradition and potentially geography to chase the money and be one of the Big 48 (or whatever the number ends up being).
Can’t really pull for either, so I’ll just keep pulling for Clemson. Go Tigers…whatever our future holds.
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National Champion [7947]
TigerPulse: 100%
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The B12 is below the ACC and nothing they are doing is changing
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Aug 4, 2023, 11:47 AM
[ in reply to Re: Unpopular opinion? I don't want to leave the ACC ] |
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that. The B12s only hope is the ACC goes away so they can become 3rd, however, in doing so, there will be ACC schools that go to the B10/SEC which will increase the number of schools that they are significantly behind in rev.
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Varsity [134]
TigerPulse: 97%
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Re: The B12 is below the ACC and nothing they are doing is changing
Aug 5, 2023, 10:11 PM
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B12 leadership has already left the ACC in the rear view mirror. They have made sure to get a big footprint for media/tv which is what drives the large contracts. 2nd they understand reality means nothing in today's world. All they have to do is get ESPN and the like to say that they are good. The ACC has been as good as the SEC in multiple years in the last decade or so, but nobody outside of our conference would believe that.
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Fan [38]
TigerPulse: 31%
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Re: The B12 is below the ACC and nothing they are doing is changing
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Aug 6, 2023, 1:38 AM
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The ACC has not been anywhere near as good as the SEC in multiple years.
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Gridiron Giant [16034]
TigerPulse: 100%
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I would argue that in 2023, the ability to see any game at
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Aug 4, 2023, 12:05 PM
[ in reply to Re: Unpopular opinion? I don't want to leave the ACC ] |
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any level should be there. It wouldn't be on ESPN but I suspect we're to the point that we could probably broadcast any game we want, ever.
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Clemson Sports Icon [56348]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Unpopular opinion? I don't want to leave the ACC
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Aug 4, 2023, 11:22 AM
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Nice post. I too have made great memories with the ACC.
These days memories are still made, but the reality is things have changed and $$$ means more than it did in the past.
Clemson has always been competitive with everyone. To remain that, we must also now be competitive in the $$$.
We have not always been in the ACC, doubt we always will be.
Southern Intercollegiate Athletic Association (1896–1921)
Southern Conference (1921–1953)
Atlantic Coast Conference (1953–present)
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Paw Master [17358]
TigerPulse: 100%
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The Ivy League is still intact
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Aug 4, 2023, 11:27 AM
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and if I am not mistaken has more football national championships than any of the current P5 conferences
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110%er [3766]
TigerPulse: 64%
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Re: The Ivy League is still intact
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Aug 4, 2023, 11:33 AM
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And if I'm not mistaken the Ivy League's last national football championship was the same year "The Wizard of Oz" hit the theaters
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Paw Warrior [4754]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: The Ivy League is still intact
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Aug 4, 2023, 11:50 AM
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That was just a few years before USuCk won their only trophy.
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Clemson Sports Icon [56348]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: The Ivy League is still intact
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Aug 4, 2023, 11:37 AM
[ in reply to The Ivy League is still intact ] |
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The first Clemson team picked the team mascot and the players chose "Tigers" because Princeton University had just won the national championship.
Princeton still plays football, but has not been competitive with all for many years.
Football at Clemson will go on, the question is "what level?".
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Team Captain [494]
TigerPulse: 99%
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Re: The Ivy League is still intact
Aug 4, 2023, 12:54 PM
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That's actually a cool piece of trivia, I didn't know that.
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Commissioner [1263]
TigerPulse: 97%
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Re: The Ivy League is still intact
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Aug 4, 2023, 1:28 PM
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Except it’s not true. We are the Tigers bc Heisman came from Auburn the prev yearwith some extra gear …
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Clemson Sports Icon [56348]
TigerPulse: 100%
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1st Rounder [601]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Unpopular opinion? I don't want to leave the ACC
Aug 6, 2023, 5:57 PM
[ in reply to Re: Unpopular opinion? I don't want to leave the ACC ] |
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I think the die has been cast and Clemson has to join the SEC with Fla St or be pushed to the dust bin of collage football ACC history as in "what used to be". We are no longer in control of TV rights and stuff that makes for champions. We better join the 2 major players (SEC and Big 10) or Clemson is history in the world of champions of bygone years. Who in their right mind signs a deal on anything that extends into 2036? 2036! Are you Sh*tting me? Wonder if old UNC-loving Swafford is still laughing at what he left us with?
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Hall of Famer [8572]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 2011
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Re: Unpopular opinion? I don't want to leave the ACC
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Aug 4, 2023, 11:23 AM
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Finally someone who understands and appreciates the soul of college football. It's about regional conferences, not about greed.
Who's looking out for all the schools who will get left behind?
TV networks should not be driving this train and essentially determining the winners by paying certain conferences/schools more money. How does that seem fair/right?
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Campus Hero [13393]
TigerPulse: 100%
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College football as we've known it is dying.***
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Aug 4, 2023, 11:29 AM
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Clemson Icon [27692]
TigerPulse: 100%
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You'll always have the memories.
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Aug 4, 2023, 11:36 AM
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But, "the times, they are a-changin'."
I used to love riding in the back of a pick-up truck standing up with the wind hitting me as I leaned on the cab. But, those days are gone and they ain't coming back.
I used to enjoy sitting in the wooden endzone at FSU when I was in HS and the ticket only cost $2.
Looks very much like in a few years staying in the ACC won't be an option because there won't be an ACC.
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All-American [559]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Unpopular opinion? I don't want to leave the ACC
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Aug 4, 2023, 11:36 AM
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Great Post, my friend.
I have fond ACC memories, as well.
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Hall of Famer [8278]
TigerPulse: 96%
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I dont like the ACC, never have. BUT
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Aug 4, 2023, 11:38 AM
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Your post drives a very interesting conversation. What is the end game with these mega-conferences? Will they ultimately even have any real ties to the University, other than playing/practicing on campus? Will they kick the NCAA to the curb? If so, and if players are getting paid/unionize, etc is going to class even necessary/required? How are these even college teams any longer? Well, the answer is, they arent.
So, what happens then? I think, at that point, you have minor league NFL where all the paid talent goes. But then you have what becomes old school amateur college ball start up once again at the Universities. I could see something along those lines happening.....many years down the road from now. What would conferences etc look like? Dont know, but I guarantee you it would be very regional, like it used to be.
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Paw Warrior [4754]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: I dont like the ACC, never have. BUT
Aug 4, 2023, 12:06 PM
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I won’t be around that long but eventually all the super conferences will fall by the wayside and it will all return to smaller conferences, with student/athletes and another league of paid players that are on the payrolls of the pro teams or combination of pro teams. Most of you don’t remember games with PC, The Citadel, Furman let alone with Newberry, Erskine, Guilford, Davidson, Duquesne, Wofford, Mercer or VMI. It was still good competition and a great collegiate atmosphere. It will return. Just be patient.
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Freshman [-94]
TigerPulse: 83%
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Re: Unpopular opinion? I don't want to leave the ACC
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Aug 4, 2023, 11:53 AM
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I agree
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Oculus Spirit [39666]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Unpopular opinion? I don't want to leave the ACC
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Aug 4, 2023, 11:55 AM
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I respect your thoughts and in a perfect world the ACC would be good enough to compete with the SEC and B1G on big tv deals. The powers that be decided on Louisville, BC, Pitt, and Syracuse. Death knell… these teams added another cinder block on our hopes of competitive football teams.
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Tiger Spirit [9880]
TigerPulse: 100%
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I'd like to keep the history and old matchups
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Aug 4, 2023, 12:02 PM
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But it doesn't look like that's going to happen, and I don't get a vote anyway.
I'm just happy to get to watch my Tigers play, whenever and against whomever. I'd like to continue to play in the ACC, but I'd also like the ACC to be better quality.
Is what it is. I'm just over here minding my own business and looking forward to the first game.
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All-Pro [718]
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Re: Unpopular opinion? I don't want to leave the ACC
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Aug 4, 2023, 12:03 PM
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I think we all have fond memories of the ACC, and wish it would survive, but the fact of the matter is, the conference was killed by bad leadership choices and nepotism, which most of, begins and ends, with John Swofford. He wanted the ACC network badly, and if reports are true, misrepresented what was to be expected by the network in order to secure the GOR. He negotiated a TV deal with Raycom sports, at a time when Raycom was run by non-other than Swofford's son. He expanded the conference with teams that didn't "move the needle", and put too much focus on basketball, instead of the revenue generator, football. I would like to think that now that Swofford is gone that we're headed in the right direction, but then we hired Jim Phillips, who may not be here long as he's named in multiple Northwestern lawsuits, and chooses to talk about all the non-revenue sport success at the ACC Football Kickoff. It would be nice if the conference could be saved, but there's no one to add to boost the value of this conference, and even if we did, there's no guarantee ESPN renegotiates our deal now that they're hemorrhaging money and having mass lay-offs, and the one team that could boost the league will not take possibly a $40 mil annual hit to do so.
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Orange Blooded [4083]
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There were many that didn’t wanna leave the Titanic also***
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Aug 4, 2023, 12:15 PM
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Gridiron Giant [16034]
TigerPulse: 100%
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I'm with you 100%. I suspect if and when the dust settles,
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Aug 4, 2023, 12:19 PM
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we will all look around and wonder how we got so wrapped up in the money grab, to the detriment of everything that made college football great.
All this money being thrown at schools...is it making the SCHOOL better? Is it making it more accessible or affordable for students to attend? Is it making it more accessible or affordable for fans to see the game? In person? On TV?
I have said this many times on here in defense of the ACC, but being in a conference with at least five in-conference road trips are an easy day trip and probably nine are easy overnight trips is a blessing. Adding the Gamecocks annually just adds one more potential easy road trip every year. Being in a conference with schools like Wake and Duke, with VERY affordable and accessible tickets for a day trip where a family of four can probably sit 10 rows from their Tigers without going broke, is a blessing. If the dust settles and we find ourselves in the Big Ten, without a single close rival, I think those being honest in a few years will realize it wasn't worth other people making a lot of money.
If there was wisdom in academic administration, and not just people who thought they had to optimize their revenue stream, they would have nipped this in the bud twenty years ago.
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Legend [6785]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Unpopular opinion? I don't want to leave the ACC
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Aug 4, 2023, 12:28 PM
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I grew up a Marshall fan, and I looked forward to watching each and every game with Dad. Sun, rain, snow, win, lose, draw, we stayed until the final whistle.
These were MU's conference in my lifetime.
MAC - ugly stepchild, I hated every team with passion
Independent - the Dark Ages, hated the same teams
Southern - rebirth, love the rivalries with Furman & Appy
MAC - Paybacks, my dream realized
Con USA - Meh, No true rivalries, mostly "Who is this team we're playing?"
Sun Belt - see above
Granted in the sec we would pickup bamer and ug, but I would greatly miss crushing nc puppies dreams again, and making up for past losses to g-tech, etc
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CU Medallion [19658]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Respect your opinion
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Aug 4, 2023, 1:01 PM
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+1. But time stands still for no man and no program. There is no doubt capitalistic forces are in play, and Disney/ESPN and Fox Sports have been and will continue to drive the expansion/realignment bus for more revenue. That said, this country has been built on freedom and capitalism, and it beats socialism and communism. So realignment will continue to play out, and for most, Clemson Football means more when the team is highly competitive.
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Orange Blooded [3230]
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Re: Unpopular opinion? I don't want to leave the ACC
Aug 4, 2023, 1:19 PM
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The SEC would be regional enough.
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Team Captain [494]
TigerPulse: 99%
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Re: Unpopular opinion? I don't want to leave the ACC
Aug 4, 2023, 2:09 PM
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Regional, but without history. You're right that they are more regional that B1G, but I enjoy the culture, history, and tradition of the ACC. We're more academically focused and have a ton of history that we simply don't have with SEC teams.
Further, I don't want to be another Alabama, Georgia, LSU, etc. There are plenty of southern schools with big programs and big budgets. Clemson is, and traditionally has been, different. We're small and scrappy, and do things differently. We don't have the top class or the best facilities, but we still win. That's fun. Going to the SEC means just trying to be another Georgia.
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Ring of Honor [23484]
TigerPulse: 100%
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I agree. I don't need Clemson to be in the corporate league
Aug 4, 2023, 1:51 PM
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for me to be happy. I would be happier without all the cultural drawbacks of that.
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Game Changer [1843]
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Re: Unpopular opinion? I don't want to leave the ACC
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Aug 4, 2023, 3:23 PM
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Basically, you liked it during the Frank Howard years, before Clemson became Big-Time.
But now, if we want to try to retain Big Time status, we can not stay in the ACC.
If we want to just enjoy some low-stakes, cozy little games on sunny autumn afternoons against the Wakes and Dukes of the world, where we can spread out our blankets on the Hill and enjoy a leisurely picnic, and where we set our sights no higher than beating the Chickens at the end of the year to claim State Bragging Rights, then we just need to sit tight. We are right where we need to be.
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National Champion [8064]
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Unpopular opinion I agree with you.
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Aug 5, 2023, 10:36 PM
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We may be in the "get off my lawn you kids era, but still the love for tradition and regional pride/rivalries should always have a place in CFB"!
Thanks for posting this. Really have enjoyed most of the comments on this subject. Many of the same thoughts that I echo.
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Clemson Icon [26748]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Very worthy post. Unfortunately, for older folks like
Aug 6, 2023, 4:57 AM
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us, there are thousands upon thousands of Clemson people, young and old alike, who have revelled in the glory of two recent national titles. Most will not settle for a second tier, something I believe our admin understands.
Hence, I believe there will be major movement, just how and when, I do not know. Clemson is now one of the nation's premier programs...a fact that has heads swollen with pride which is not going to abate.
Admittedly, this old 76-year-old is part of that swollen head group, full of p*ss and vinegar wanting us to do whatever it takes to be on the inside, looking out...and not the other way around.
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Clemson Sports Icon [58511]
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Re: Unpopular opinion? I don't want to leave the ACC
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Aug 6, 2023, 7:59 AM
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Greed rules the world. I wish everything could stay the same because what you said matters A LOT. Sadly, it cannot. Dabo has been proven right about the direction "college" football is heading.
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [98436]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Clemson isn't UNC, DOOK, Wake, Cuse or anyone in else.
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Aug 6, 2023, 8:09 AM
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I appreciate your respect for Clemson and I certainly share it with you. Congratulations, we've decided that Clemson is different than any other teams in the NCAA. The teams most like Clemson are unwilling or unable to field a team like ours.
Your point was that we don't belong in the SEC. We probably don't belong in any conference because of the character of our head coach, staff, players and fans.
Imo, if we're going to be somewhere that we don't belong let's join the SEC and not belong there. At least keep travel to a minimum and make some as much money as we can.
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Trainer [34]
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Re: Unpopular opinion? I don't want to leave the ACC
Aug 6, 2023, 9:36 AM
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And we don’t need ANY Left Coast schools tainting the conference.
CFB is ruined for me. It’s a joke…
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Asst Coach [832]
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Re: Unpopular opinion? I don't want to leave the ACC
Aug 6, 2023, 10:28 AM
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It can’t be just about football. The SEC doesn’t come close to the ACC in basketball. And where is Clemson lacking in funds? Seems we build as good or better facilities as anyone. How does 30 million more a year get us more wins?
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CU Medallion [20827]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Unpopular opinion? I don't want to leave the ACC
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Aug 6, 2023, 10:32 AM
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Most of us wish things didn't have to change but being the last one in the office to turn the lights off is not a good option either.
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Asst Coach [832]
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Re: Unpopular opinion? I don't want to leave the ACC
Aug 6, 2023, 11:03 AM
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Neither is a porpoise leaving his school for a shiver of tiger sharks.
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CU Medallion [20827]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Unpopular opinion? I don't want to leave the ACC
Aug 6, 2023, 11:30 AM
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Let me know how that works when the other teams have landed somewhere else.
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