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110%er [9073]
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bush wars
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Jun 13, 2023, 5:36 PM
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8 trillion and 937,0000 killed
that is a major oops
i believe the GOP died in those wars, establishment Rs lost their party
throw in Bush's patriot act that took rights from american citizens, yikes
there may be a former president who needs to be indicted indeed
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All-TigerNet [11241]
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GOP would’ve been fine if they’d never nominated Trump.
Jun 13, 2023, 5:50 PM
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He took a giant, four year, diarrheac chit on America, our rule of law, and our values. His lasting legacy will be that he ruined our election integrity and destroyed the GOP.
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Lot o points [156129]
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It’s interesting to ponder.
Jun 13, 2023, 6:26 PM
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Jeb would have beaten Hillary and then gone along to get along for four years, ultimately losing out to whomever the Dems ran mainly due to GOP base apathy.
I doubt he’d have run up Trump’s debt tab and the Pubs probably wouldn’t have lost the Senate, but on the flip side he would have appointed John Roberts clones on the SC (we can agree to disagree in advance on if that’s good). Just like Trump, he likely would have done whatever Fauci suggested, so all in all, it feels kind of like it ultimately all came out in the wash.
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All-TigerNet [11241]
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America would be in a much better place if it had been Jeb
Jun 13, 2023, 6:37 PM
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or Hill. She’d have had to dodge scandals right and left and it would be the Dems with the toxicity problem. Though Hill would have more sense than to bring down everything she could touch…and Pants Suit nation wasn’t nearly as effed up a cult as the MAGAts.
Trump is/was/will be the problem for the GOP and America until he becomes irrelevant.
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Lot o points [156129]
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Another agree to disagree.
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Jun 13, 2023, 6:44 PM
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Trump was a symptom, not the illness. To lay the condition of US society at his feet is to give the man more credit than he deserves IMHO. I think people will be disappointed if they think the illness will disappear when the symptom does.
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All-TigerNet [11241]
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It’s not an all or nothing equation from my perspective.
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Jun 13, 2023, 7:22 PM
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Trump spent every waking hour in the WH trying to be center of attention and on camera as much as possible. And we all watched as the flames got higher and out of control; some were gobsmacked, others cheered the stupidity and still do. The man has no idea what it means to serve anything other than his own interests.
I don’t see a doomed society, I see a portion of which he has disproportionately affected. There is a large slice of America that now thinks it’s ok to be as rude AF, to just out and out hate other people…openly, that want to take away others’ rights because they don’t like them, violence is OK with them. Social media has done its part to be a vehicle for the chitshow, but personal behavior is off the chain, too. It’s disgusting.
Never saw this prior to Trump. You’d get an occasional quietly spoken nword during the Obama years, but nothing like it is today. His followers think it’s ok to act like him and that’s effed up. Jeb’s people wouldn’t have gone batshid crazy if he lost…neither would Hill’s. The fringe groups would be a lot smaller and no where near the mainstream as they are today.
So Trump ain’t responsible for all of society, just his crappy followers. Unfortunately, there’s probably 50 million of’em.
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Lot o points [156129]
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Trump just poured gas on an already burning fire.
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Jun 13, 2023, 9:55 PM
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Obama stoked the divide that gave us Trump, and I don’t think Trump even realized how strong that current was until he started rowing in it, likely as a goof. Once he realized it, he embraced it and ran with it.
Obama may be almost as big a narcissist as Trump, but he still had an agenda he wanted to push whereas Trumps agenda ended with Trump. Obama also had the brains and polish to not speak every phrase that popped into his head. If Trump and Obama were in Dirty Rotten scoundrels, Obama would be Michael Caine and Trump would be Steve Martin.
I remember Presidents in my life speaking ill of opposing politicians. I don’t remember them speaking ill of opposing voters until Obama, and truth be told I don’t recall Trump ever speaking about actual Democrat voters the way Obama spoke about Republican voters. I don’t recall a President speaking ill of their predecessor (and their successor) until Obama.
I wasn’t alive in the 60’s, so Obama is the first President in my lifetime to actually worsen race relations during their time in office.
I’m not defending or denying Trump’s divisiveness in the least, but he’s absolutely a sequel to a movie that had already been made.
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Hall of Famer [22012]
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Wellfuckingsaid man***
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Jun 13, 2023, 10:54 PM
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All-TigerNet [11241]
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Obed, I understand where you’re coming from….BUT
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Jun 14, 2023, 12:15 AM
[ in reply to Trump just poured gas on an already burning fire. ] |
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this sounds like the uppity nword arguments from my old people friends and family back in the day. I hardly see Obama as a narcissist on Trumps level, he’s like 10 circles of h311 away from him. Would you have preferred him not to remain confident in the face of all the racial criticism he and Michelle endured? The monkey references that pervaded social media…I see it as his election exposing a lot of racist people in America…and this from a guy that only voted for him once.
Was Obama qualified to be POTUS, F no. But he knew right from wrong and, in that regard, was much more qualified than Trump. Obama’s reality smacked him in the face when he effed up healthcare. He should’ve had the wisdom to have the bill withdrawn instead of getting it passed half a$$. It instead of digging his heels in and being stubborn after that, he learned on the job. We were stuck with him and he was stuck with us and he got better at it. What the heck else do you ask from a potus? Dubya did the same thing, he learned and got better at his job. So did Clinton until the BJ mess.
This crap is on us and the Trump worshippers. And Trump is still anathema to American values.
All that to agree to disagree. Night dude.
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Associate AD [828]
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Re: Trump just poured gas on an already burning fire.
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Jun 14, 2023, 7:23 AM
[ in reply to Trump just poured gas on an already burning fire. ] |
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Obed® and OST, you both have good things to say. Trump was all about Trump and has hijacked the GOP. But the GOP lost its way and left the void that Trump could easily fill.
(But first - in no way do I believe that Obama stoked racial tensions. His existence as president was something that a lot of Americans couldn't handle. Trump and his birtherism certainly contributed to it - heck, I think eight years questioning the legitimacy of the Commander-in-Chief should be a disqualifier for serving as Commander-in-Chief. And I never understood (despite a tendency toward conservatism) how veterans could support Trump. His 'religion and guns' comment was no wiser than HRC's 'deplorables' but it's not like he repeated it every day the way Trump repeated the birther lies and Rush would repeat "halfrican American" for the conservative talk radio crowd. Those tensions were long stoked and Obama primarily contributed to them by being black.)
Back to the primary issue - I have long said the GOP really began to crash when Obama was elected President. McConnell with his primary goal of "make Obama a failed President." The GOP lost any message of a governing agenda. Eight years of obstruction. (And then leaving a SCOTUS seat open for a year showed a complete lack of respect for our norms, in service of politics... and then of course they rushed through a seat for the orange idiot.) But I digress.
So we got to 2016 and there was nothing that the GOP stood for any more. So they had a dozen contenders. Most of them really didn't talk about policy. They were a bunch of dwarves. And then you had the reality show screamer. Trump didn't have any policy platform either, but he could take over a stage and already had more name recognition than anyone else up there. He had no real accomplishment - I mean the tax cut ballooned the deficit. He largely mishandled his one real crisis (COVID). But despite two impeachments, he sat three regressive judges on SCOTUS. Good lord.
It surprised me that Trump kept his base. But I guess it surprises me less every day.
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Hall of Famer [24878]
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T-Rump was an attempt at a vaccine for Globalist agenda.
Jun 13, 2023, 9:52 PM
[ in reply to Another agree to disagree. ] |
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I think we're gonna see the another iteration from same lab.
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Oculus Spirit [81298]
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Whats with the amateurish T-rump thing?
Jun 14, 2023, 11:41 AM
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Is that really the best almost an insult you come up with? It reeks of muirua.
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Rock Defender [54]
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110%er [9073]
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jeb beats hillary?
Jun 13, 2023, 9:15 PM
[ in reply to It’s interesting to ponder. ] |
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i dont see how, he was not well liked by republicans, maybe 5th place before dropping out
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Lot o points [156129]
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110%er [9073]
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Re: Look at the polling
Jun 14, 2023, 11:35 AM
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i believe he was behind cruz and even rubio when he quit
jeb spent $150 million, dragged his 90 year old mother out into the snow to campaign for him
quit
hahahaha
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Associate AD [828]
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Re: jeb beats hillary?
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Jun 14, 2023, 7:39 AM
[ in reply to jeb beats hillary? ] |
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Hindsight is 20/20, and in hindsight I would agree that (in a Trump-free world) Jeb would have beaten Hillary. There is a lot of (somewhat irrational) hatred of Hillary. She would have run the same bad campaign as she did. And the people who were put off by Trump wouldn't have had that issue with Jeb.
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All-TigerNet [13362]
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It has very little to do with what they actually do any more
Jun 14, 2023, 6:36 AM
[ in reply to It’s interesting to ponder. ] |
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Any of the pub nominations from that year would’ve been crushed by the media. Remover what they did to McCain and Romney and they are about as milquetoast as you get!
They would’ve destroyed Jeb!!
If Jeb got the nomination, I believe the libs would be in here now saying “it wouldn’t have been as bad if Trump would’ve won.”
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Associate AD [828]
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Re: It has very little to do with what they actually do any more
Jun 14, 2023, 7:46 AM
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I think that conservatives call it "crushed by the media" when they point out positions that candidates actually take.
The "media" (I guess you think it is one organizational monolith) always judged John McCain quite fairly, but he sure took his lumps after he put Sarah Palin on the ticket.
I was a McCain supporter (especially in 2000) - though in 2008 I would not vote for him. He was NEVER going to win. Bush left us in two quagmires and with the financial mess requiring bailouts. The GOP could have dug up Abraham Lincoln and they would have still lost that election. They had no chance in 2008. Swing voters looked at the last eight years and the question of "do we want more of this?" was pretty simple.
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All-TigerNet [13362]
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Re: It has very little to do with what they actually do any more
Jun 14, 2023, 8:59 AM
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Yes, the media is largely monolithic.
And to prove my point, if palin had a D next to her name- you know that monolithic media would just be pushing the first female VP line and you wouldn’t know anything substantial about here. See Kamala… maybe there’s just not anything substantial about her anyways- I don’t know.
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Associate AD [828]
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Re: It has very little to do with what they actually do any more
Jun 14, 2023, 11:45 AM
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Palin played up the screamy redneck thing way too much. She undermined the case to be made that McCain was a principled centrist. I don't know whose idea Palin was, but I never thought it was McCain's. Christine Todd Whitman would have checked off way more boxes.
Oh, yeah, the monolithic media really helped Geraldine Ferraro.
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110%er [5712]
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Re: GOP would’ve been fine if they’d never nominated Trump.
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Jun 13, 2023, 10:01 PM
[ in reply to GOP would’ve been fine if they’d never nominated Trump. ] |
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you are so full chit. NONE of it would have happened if the democrats had not fabricated the entire Russian Hoax. How can you idiots just ignore that? Rule of law? Are you ufcking kidding me?
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Heisman Winner [112029]
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Re: bush wars
Jun 13, 2023, 6:13 PM
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We should dig up Reagan and Greenspan and try their corpse while we are at it.
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Oculus Spirit [81298]
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They would still be the most conservative on the ticket***
Jun 14, 2023, 11:43 AM
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CU Medallion [60187]
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Remind me how many Democrats
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Jun 14, 2023, 1:13 PM
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voted for the war. Can you remind me?
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