Replies: 78
| visibility 20255
|
Webmaster [∞]
TigerPulse: 100%
∞
Posts: 45335
Joined: 2012
|
TNET: Clemson QB decommits, flips to Notre Dame
2
Oct 14, 2024, 6:51 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [6951]
TigerPulse: 97%
41
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [6951]
TigerPulse: 97%
41
|
no other QB missed the targets as bad as him and as often as him***
6
6
Oct 14, 2024, 6:53 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recruit [68]
TigerPulse: 80%
7
|
Re: no other QB missed the targets as bad as him and as often as him***
3
Oct 14, 2024, 8:32 PM
|
|
Come on…everyone loved him until now. We will find another.
|
|
|
|
|
Dynasty Maker [3311]
TigerPulse: 100%
34
|
Re: no other QB missed the targets as bad as him and as often as him***
1
Oct 14, 2024, 9:48 PM
|
|
Actually, someone just posted the other day they were nervous about him. He was not tearing it up against lesser competition in CT.
|
|
|
|
|
Rival Killer [2904]
TigerPulse: 72%
33
|
|
|
|
|
Clemson Icon [24892]
TigerPulse: 94%
54
Posts: 17252
Joined: 2002
|
Tell 'em nothing since 1969 coot. No one knows losing better than you.
Oct 15, 2024, 8:21 AM
|
|
.
|
|
|
|
|
Paw Warrior [4750]
TigerPulse: 100%
37
|
I prefer to think we quitely pulled his offer
3
Oct 14, 2024, 7:46 PM
[ in reply to we dodged a bullet ] |
|
since he is clearly not good enough to play for Clemson. The only way he was going to see the field in Clemson was by making the travel roster for another ACC team. Notre Dame is no Northern Illinois, but they will come to Clemson again in 2027.
|
|
|
|
|
Solid Orange [1333]
TigerPulse: 77%
28
|
Re: I prefer to think we quitely pulled his offer
1
10
10
Oct 14, 2024, 7:49 PM
|
|
Yall wild....
There is tons of threads loving this kid on here, he decommits now he was trash all along
|
|
|
|
|
Commissioner [1255]
TigerPulse: 100%
27
|
Re: I prefer to think we quitely pulled his offer
2
5
5
Oct 14, 2024, 7:56 PM
|
|
Yea it's a little sad how easily people can flip a switch.
|
|
|
|
|
Solid Orange [1399]
TigerPulse: 87%
28
|
"SAD",F--- that mercurial wishy, washy no good....
1
Oct 14, 2024, 8:44 PM
|
|
pos...g(him)tfoh...that perk you up..turn your frown upside down?(rhetorical, idgaf)
|
|
|
|
|
Game Changer [1779]
TigerPulse: 100%
31
|
|
|
|
|
Rival Killer [2904]
TigerPulse: 72%
33
|
|
|
|
|
Game Changer [2039]
TigerPulse: 99%
31
|
Re: I prefer to think we quitely pulled his offer
2
Oct 14, 2024, 8:01 PM
[ in reply to I prefer to think we quitely pulled his offer ] |
|
Dabo and company thought he was good enough… so your remark kinda lays shade on the coaching staff
|
|
|
|
|
Paw Master [16744]
TigerPulse: 100%
51
Posts: 21791
Joined: 2007
|
Re: I prefer to think we quitely pulled his offer
2
Oct 14, 2024, 8:23 PM
|
|
Who knows? He may have been told he has much work to do before seeing the field, because he has issues. I wish him no ill will, but things usually have a way of working out like they are supposed to. Hopefully, we sign a real high quality QB in the next cycle who really takes us to an even higher level.
|
|
|
|
|
Hall of Famer [8962]
TigerPulse: 100%
43
Posts: 10649
Joined: 2003
|
NIL people. He was bought, plain and simple!***
Oct 15, 2024, 7:59 AM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Freshman [6]
TigerPulse: 100%
1
|
Re: NIL people. He was bought, plain and simple!***
Oct 15, 2024, 8:33 AM
|
|
Ah, yes, that classic old tale of the family from Greenwich, CT needing the money so he flipped his commitment away from Clemson.
And how much do we think ND paid for a QB that is not better than their 23, 24 or 26 QBs?
Is it possible he just wanted to go somewhere else besides Clemson?
|
|
|
|
|
Valley Protector [1493]
TigerPulse: 97%
29
|
So, using your logic, rich people once theyre rich no longer seek out money.
1
Oct 15, 2024, 12:24 PM
|
|
It’s funny, I see Shaq in a s-ton of commercials, pimping some product. Maybe he’s doing it for free, since he’s a multimillionaire several times over.
|
|
|
|
|
Paw Warrior [4750]
TigerPulse: 100%
37
|
Not if the staff pulled his offer!
1
Oct 14, 2024, 8:24 PM
[ in reply to Re: I prefer to think we quitely pulled his offer ] |
|
Gotcha!
Dude: I'm joking. This is my sense of humor. Things I think are funny today, were, in fact, funny 20 years ago. They're not funny today. Except to me. Which is why I'm even responding.
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2247]
TigerPulse: 100%
32
|
Re: we dodged a bullet
3
Oct 14, 2024, 7:47 PM
[ in reply to we dodged a bullet ] |
|
Notre Dame just keeps poaching ACC quarterbacks...do they even recruit on their on?...
|
|
|
|
|
Rival Killer [2904]
TigerPulse: 72%
33
|
Why should they? It's mostly working for them******
Oct 14, 2024, 10:20 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2308]
TigerPulse: 100%
32
|
Is it though?
Oct 15, 2024, 10:35 PM
|
|
Sam Hartman didn't exactly light the world on fire last year, and Riley Leonard has been inconsistent at best so far this year. Yeah, he's turned it around recently against the likes of Purdue, Miami of Ohio, Louisville, and Stanford, but is that more of a reflection on him or on the quality of those opponents? They did get the win against A&M, but neither offense really looked good in that game. And let's not forget what happened against NIU at home. I know they have absurd expectations there, but I have yet to meet a Notre Dame fan who has good things to say about Sam Hartman's play. Are grad transfer QB's from tobacco road really going to lead the Irish back to the promised land? I don't think so.
|
|
|
|
|
Athletic Dir [1179]
TigerPulse: 98%
26
|
Re: we dodged a bullet
3
Oct 14, 2024, 7:56 PM
[ in reply to we dodged a bullet ] |
|
I’m reminded of DJU’s pregame warmups. No energy, no accuracy
|
|
|
|
|
Paw Master [16744]
TigerPulse: 100%
51
Posts: 21791
Joined: 2007
|
Re: we dodged a bullet
2
Oct 14, 2024, 8:24 PM
|
|
He was rather underwhelming.
|
|
|
|
|
Clemson Icon [24687]
TigerPulse: 100%
54
Posts: 17691
Joined: 2000
|
Who do we have on tap that's better?
Oct 14, 2024, 10:37 PM
[ in reply to we dodged a bullet ] |
|
We don't.
|
|
|
|
|
Game Changer [1685]
TigerPulse: 100%
31
|
Re: Who do we have on tap that's better?
Oct 15, 2024, 12:04 PM
|
|
...Cade...Vizz...Pearman...
|
|
|
|
|
Clemson Icon [24687]
TigerPulse: 100%
54
Posts: 17691
Joined: 2000
|
Re: Who do we have on tap that's better?
1
Oct 15, 2024, 1:54 PM
|
|
Cade, yes.
Others TBD.
|
|
|
|
|
Game Changer [1685]
TigerPulse: 100%
31
|
Re: Who do we have on tap that's better?
1
Oct 15, 2024, 3:04 PM
|
|
I guess Cade could be "TBD" as well depending on how this year goes. I'd personally love to see him comeback, but then again can't fault a guy if he's going to be offered millions of dollars in the Draft.
For Vizzina and Pearman, they have the 'incumbent' advantage being familiar with the playbook, system, school, etc. SO all that said, I think it would take a really talented prospect (more than 3 stars) to challenge some of that existing bedrock.
Who knows. This landscape is crazy, but I'm not losing any sleep over (what's her name?) going to ND.
|
|
|
|
|
Clemson Sports Icon [59956]
TigerPulse: 100%
59
Posts: 61322
Joined: 2007
|
Re: we dodged a bullet
Oct 16, 2024, 8:30 AM
[ in reply to we dodged a bullet ] |
|
Yes, but with the deal that he had with Dabo if he commits Dabo wouldn't recruit another QB, well Dabo kept his word and what he gets for that is a slap in the face with Blake saying sucker!!! Well, I have never in all the time that I've been a college FB fan, I have never wished any bad for a recruit or a player of any team, but I do wish everything negative for all his time as a college QB. I hope ND brings in another QB that will beat him out and keep him from ever having the starting job, and I hope that no pro FB team will ever give him a second look, it's deserving for someone with his character, nothing but 👎👎👎👎 for you Blake Hebert!!!
|
|
|
|
|
Clemson Icon [27518]
TigerPulse: 100%
54
Posts: 13002
Joined: 2014
|
Re: TNET: Clemson QB decommits, flips to Notre Dame
9
9
Oct 14, 2024, 6:53 PM
|
|
Must have seen the tape of Pearman in the Spring game.
|
|
|
|
|
Heisman Winner [81299]
TigerPulse: 100%
62
|
Now we are losing 3 star backup QBs!!!
4
Oct 14, 2024, 7:05 PM
|
|
Something must be done CDS
|
|
|
|
|
All-Time Great [97564]
TigerPulse: 100%
63
Posts: 47649
Joined: 2009
|
Well, guess well be seeing him on the field
3
Oct 14, 2024, 7:18 PM
|
|
But in blue/green instead of the Orange.
|
|
|
|
|
Commissioner [1255]
TigerPulse: 100%
27
|
Re: Well, guess well be seeing him on the field
3
Oct 14, 2024, 7:57 PM
|
|
I doubt it cause ND will just keep bringing in transfers cause they don't have the time to develop a QB.
|
|
|
|
|
Paw Master [16744]
TigerPulse: 100%
51
Posts: 21791
Joined: 2007
|
|
|
|
|
Commissioner [1297]
TigerPulse: 55%
27
|
Re: TNET: Clemson QB decommits, flips to Notre Dame
2
Oct 14, 2024, 7:17 PM
|
|
Blake sucked anyways
|
|
|
|
|
Clemson Sports Icon [52087]
TigerPulse: 100%
59
|
Re: TNET: Clemson QB decommits, flips to Notre Dame
6
6
Oct 14, 2024, 7:19 PM
|
|
$$$$$
|
|
|
|
|
Game Changer [1990]
TigerPulse: 98%
31
|
Re: TNET: Clemson QB decommits, flips to Notre Dame
1
Oct 14, 2024, 7:48 PM
|
|
Agree
|
|
|
|
|
Paw Warrior [5059]
TigerPulse: 88%
37
|
Re: TNET: Clemson QB decommits, flips to Notre Dame
3
Oct 14, 2024, 7:23 PM
|
|
Lmao FOH!!
ND wasn't even recruiting this kid until like a month ago.
|
|
|
|
|
Paw Master [16744]
TigerPulse: 100%
51
Posts: 21791
Joined: 2007
|
Re: TNET: Clemson QB decommits, flips to Notre Dame
3
Oct 14, 2024, 8:28 PM
|
|
Interesting! Maybe Dabo should start a strategy of offering kids who really can't cut it, so other schools will go after them, and later pull the offer after another school bites the hook.
|
|
|
|
|
Team Captain [490]
TigerPulse: 100%
18
|
Re: TNET: Clemson QB decommits, flips to Notre Dame
2
Oct 14, 2024, 7:32 PM
|
|
Wishing him the best of luck, seems like a good person based on what info is out there.
|
|
|
|
|
Campus Hero [13466]
TigerPulse: 100%
48
Posts: 12231
Joined: 2000
|
His loss***
1
Oct 14, 2024, 7:41 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Commissioner [1265]
TigerPulse: 100%
27
|
Re: His loss***
Oct 14, 2024, 11:03 PM
|
|
Always hate to lose anyone but I don’t follow High School guys so really only have the opinions of the weirdos who do, soooo… just tees me off how little people’s word means anymore.
|
|
|
|
|
Tiger Spirit [9931]
TigerPulse: 56%
44
Posts: 13033
Joined: 2006
|
Re: TNET: Clemson QB decommits, flips to Notre Dame
3
Oct 14, 2024, 7:42 PM
|
|
Young writers have no clue because we have no player "signed on" for 2025 because Signing Day is not until December.
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2247]
TigerPulse: 100%
32
|
Re: TNET: Clemson QB decommits, flips to Notre Dame
5
5
Oct 14, 2024, 7:44 PM
|
|
Catholic kid commits to ND…why assume it’s money? Probably his dream school…
|
|
|
|
|
Team Captain [477]
TigerPulse: 100%
18
|
Re: TNET: Clemson QB decommits, flips to Notre Dame
Oct 15, 2024, 11:20 PM
|
|
Exactly. Northeast Catholic kid. Sure he dreams of being a star but likelihood is that he will never be the starter either at Clemson or at Notre Dame. From his culture, Notre Dame is a dream school, and there is no reason for him to turn down a scholarship there.
|
|
|
|
|
Tiger Spirit [9253]
TigerPulse: 73%
44
Posts: 19212
Joined: 2009
|
Who cares.see yaaaaa
2
Oct 14, 2024, 7:46 PM
|
|
Go Tigers!
|
|
|
|
|
Game Changer [1990]
TigerPulse: 98%
31
|
Re: TNET: Clemson QB decommits, flips to Notre Dame
1
Oct 14, 2024, 7:50 PM
|
|
The Bar has been set high to play QB at Clemson. Either they cut the mustard or they don’t. GO TIGERS
|
|
|
|
|
Game Changer [2039]
TigerPulse: 99%
31
|
Re: TNET: Clemson QB decommits, flips to Notre Dame
2
Oct 14, 2024, 7:59 PM
|
|
I cannot say I wish him well… but he made the decision, great University… next recruit up….
|
|
|
|
|
Game Changer [1762]
TigerPulse: 95%
31
|
Re: TNET: Clemson QB decommits, flips to Notre Dame
3
Oct 14, 2024, 8:04 PM
|
|
He wanted no part of competing against Tait Reynolds. That was a battle he would not win. ND will win exactly the same number of Natty’s with him as they have in the last 35 years ZERO. May never play because ND likes to get portal QB.
|
|
|
|
|
Offensive Star [314]
TigerPulse: 97%
15
|
Re: TNET: Clemson QB decommits, flips to Notre Dame
7
7
Oct 14, 2024, 8:04 PM
|
|
My only issue is DON’T COMMIT if you’re not 100% ALL IN. Tells me a lot about his character…
|
|
|
|
|
Paw Warrior [4631]
TigerPulse: 100%
37
|
Re: TNET: Clemson QB decommits, flips to Notre Dame
4
Oct 14, 2024, 8:14 PM
|
|
Isn’t he the kid that told Dabo not to recruit another QB and he was all in?
|
|
|
|
|
Game Day Hero [4114]
TigerPulse: 100%
36
|
Re: TNET: Clemson QB decommits, flips to Notre Dame
2
Oct 14, 2024, 8:13 PM
|
|
So tired of this fabricated announcement about transferring to another school. Just tell the truth ND offered me more money and I’m gone.
|
|
|
|
|
Playmaker [379]
TigerPulse: 100%
16
|
My first thought was
1
Oct 14, 2024, 8:21 PM
|
|
Wow, the recruits are getting more and more bold! He wasted no time decommitting and falsely opening back up his recruitment. He went straight to the ND commitment! I guess that’s poaching at its finest!
|
|
|
|
|
Rival Killer [2914]
TigerPulse: 100%
33
|
Re: My first thought was
Oct 14, 2024, 11:46 PM
|
|
He didn’t falsely open up his commitment.
He clearly stated that he decided to go to a different institution… right there in his decommitment statement.
Is it reading or comprehension that we need to work on here?
|
|
|
|
|
Playmaker [379]
TigerPulse: 100%
16
|
Re: My first thought was
Oct 15, 2024, 4:11 AM
|
|
I was trying to say that he didn’t even bother to say he was opening up his recruitment and just went straight to a new commitment. So no, it wasn’t my reading comprehension this time but more of my inability to express myself. I am glad though that you had no trouble communicating how a jerk might respond.
|
|
|
|
|
Paw Warrior [5077]
TigerPulse: 96%
37
|
Re: TNET: Clemson QB decommits, flips to Notre Dame
2
Oct 14, 2024, 8:22 PM
|
|
Everybody and their brother knows why he flipped ...its show me the money ..period ...dirty hands clean money ...
|
|
|
|
|
Recruit [68]
TigerPulse: 80%
7
|
Re: TNET: Clemson QB decommits, flips to Notre Dame
1
Oct 14, 2024, 8:31 PM
|
|
Don’t worry, DJU will still be around. 😂
|
|
|
|
|
Tiger Titan [50571]
TigerPulse: 100%
58
Posts: 14853
Joined: 2012
|
Besides the two CBs we lost a couple years ago
2
Oct 14, 2024, 8:46 PM
|
|
I don’t remember anyone who decommitted and turned out being a good player PERIOD.
|
|
|
|
|
CU Guru [1558]
TigerPulse: 81%
30
|
Dalvin Cook, Kamara, Bud Robinson, Gronk, Hancock, Mays Mays.
2
Oct 14, 2024, 9:42 PM
|
|
That's a few I remember from over the years, I'm sure there are others. Cook and Gronk are the big names. I think we actually pulled Kamaras offer because he got in trouble. Mays was the big OT that i think flipped to UGA late, or maybe he was never committed to us. I don't remember for sure. Bud was a good player but didn't matter because of Mike Williams. A lot of people think that T.Gurley was a silent commit that flipped late.
|
|
|
|
|
Asst Coach [819]
TigerPulse: 68%
23
|
Re: Dalvin Cook, Kamara, Bud Robinson, Gronk, Hancock, Mays Mays.
Oct 15, 2024, 8:02 AM
|
|
Different Kamara. David K was a CB who flipped to Ole Miss
|
|
|
|
|
Freshman [2]
TigerPulse: 100%
1
|
Re: TNET: Clemson QB decommits, flips to Notre Dame
2
Oct 14, 2024, 8:47 PM
|
|
I was never a fan of this offer… I thought we had a kid down the street that’s better and a true CU kid “ Cutter Woods”
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2521]
TigerPulse: 100%
32
|
Biggest mistake the young man ...
1
Oct 14, 2024, 8:53 PM
|
|
...will have made in his life so far. Obvious judgement issues and no all-in mindset, probably chasing some quick cash.
See you on the wrong side of the field in '27, Blake.
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2120]
TigerPulse: 97%
32
|
Re: TNET: Clemson QB decommits, flips to Notre Dame
2
Oct 14, 2024, 8:56 PM
|
|
Dabo won’t do it a neither will Riley because it’s his brother, but I would try and steal Julian Lewis from Carrollton, Georgia who is committed to the real USC. Lincoln Riley is dead in the water anyway out there. Lewis is a 5 star.
|
|
|
|
|
Tiger Titan [50571]
TigerPulse: 100%
58
Posts: 14853
Joined: 2012
|
Re: TNET: Clemson QB decommits, flips to Notre Dame
3
Oct 15, 2024, 6:59 AM
|
|
If it was my brother I would try to land him, we are competitive and would consider it all in competition!
|
|
|
|
|
Varsity [101]
TigerPulse: 100%
11
|
Flips
2
Oct 14, 2024, 9:20 PM
|
|
Bye. If the culture doesn't matter more than the $$... If you don't care about doing it the right way...see ya. We'll be just fine kicking your can down the field in 2027...if you haven't sold out before then....
|
|
|
|
|
Recruit [60]
TigerPulse: 100%
7
|
Re: Flips
1
Oct 14, 2024, 9:48 PM
|
|
Can't worry about those that don't want to be here. Kids change their minds so much nowadays with NIL, etc. I only count them when they're finally on the field.
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2230]
TigerPulse: 100%
32
|
Re: TNET: Clemson QB decommits, flips to Notre Dame
Oct 14, 2024, 10:10 PM
|
|
Really and stating all the Clemson coaching has done for you. You traitor. I beat tampering was going on. Of all the schools to commit to it just had to be ND who I don’t like at all!
|
|
|
|
|
Game Changer [1685]
TigerPulse: 100%
31
|
Re: TNET: Clemson QB decommits, flips to Notre Dame
Oct 15, 2024, 12:10 PM
|
|
I might be mistaken...so someone please correct me if I'm wrong because I want to understand...but I think tampering can only occur after an official letter is signed. So i dont think a verbal commit means other teams by rule cannot speak to him, aka tampering. I think it's only 'illegal' AFTER he's officially in the program.
|
|
|
|
|
Game Changer [1779]
TigerPulse: 100%
31
|
The bars of gold at the bottom of his commitment note to Notre Dame
4
Oct 15, 2024, 3:28 AM
|
|
are very telling…
|
|
|
|
|
Trainer [40]
TigerPulse: 100%
5
|
Re: The bars of gold at the bottom of his commitment note to Notre Dame
1
Oct 15, 2024, 6:27 AM
|
|
I was going to say the exact same thing!
|
|
|
|
|
CU Guru [1574]
TigerPulse: 100%
30
|
Re: TNET: Clemson QB decommits, flips to Notre Dame
1
Oct 15, 2024, 6:31 AM
|
|
Never saw the kid play, don't know much about him so not gonna get too upset over this. We all know that tampering is going on, it has been for years but its more obvious now. If he can be bought that easily, then I don't really want him anyway at Clemson. There's coaches that get paid considerable amounts of money to deal with this, and I trust that they'll figure out a "next man up" to offer.
|
|
|
|
|
Hall of Famer [8962]
TigerPulse: 100%
43
Posts: 10649
Joined: 2003
|
Committed. HAH!***
2
Oct 15, 2024, 6:44 AM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Associate AD [1065]
TigerPulse: 77%
25
|
Re: TNET: Clemson QB decommits, flips to Notre Dame
1
1
Oct 15, 2024, 7:03 AM
|
|
How many is that now? As soon as we start looking like Clemson again on the field, NIL is killing our recruiting. This is very concerning.
|
|
|
|
|
Paw Warrior [4929]
TigerPulse: 100%
37
|
Re: TNET: Clemson QB decommits, flips to Notre Dame
Oct 15, 2024, 8:10 AM
|
|
So is that the stack of gold bars ND offered him as NIL payment to come there?
|
|
|
|
|
Valley Protector [1487]
TigerPulse: 93%
29
|
Beat Northern Illinoise!***
1
Oct 15, 2024, 9:01 AM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Commissioner [1297]
TigerPulse: 55%
27
|
Re: TNET: Clemson QB decommits, flips to Notre Dame
Oct 15, 2024, 1:10 PM
|
|
He couldn’t start at Clemson anyone could at ND
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [3948]
TigerPulse: 100%
35
|
Now we can go after Ohio State's 4th or 5th QB on the depth chart
Oct 15, 2024, 1:11 PM
|
|
Air Noland is 5th and from Georgia. A transfer may be useful but with Clubnik and Vizzina I doubt we will need it.
|
|
|
|
|
1st Rounder [626]
TigerPulse: 100%
21
|
Re: TNET: Clemson QB decommits, flips to Notre Dame
Oct 15, 2024, 4:28 PM
|
|
I think its pretty much a "nothing burger." Its not like he is DW#4 or TL#16! We'll be fine. ND lost their 25 QB so probably upped the offer to him - kids change their mind all the time - we usually don't accept commitments unless we are sure they are ALL IN so we don't lose many but overall no biggie!
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2308]
TigerPulse: 100%
32
|
this is actually hilarious
Oct 15, 2024, 11:06 PM
|
|
You couldn't ###### a parody better than this. 1. The hollow thanks to the old program. 2. The infamous "With that being said" which has become so overused in these types of disingenuous public statements that it's comical at this point. 3. "Withdraw my commitment" and "spend my next 4 years" are similarly familiar platitudes. 4. The random Bible verse to demonstrate supreme moral character. 5. New post announcing the new school literally SIX MINUTES after the previous post was made, despite the destination being left intentionally unnamed in the previous post, implying it could still be undecided. 6. "#THINKBIG" generic, meaningless hashtag. 7. "#committed" ...I don't think I even need to explain this one. 8. The gold bars at the bottom are painfully symbolic.
|
|
|
|
Replies: 78
| visibility 20255
|
|
|