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Ring of Honor [23038]
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The real reason Clemson dropped off from elite. Take a look at this...
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Sep 6, 2024, 8:41 AM
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We stopped being serious about elite, experienced coaching.
Here is the current experience level of our coaching staff.
Offensive coaches
OC: Before Clemson, 3 years as OC 2 more as positions coach.
RB coach: Clemson is his first job. (3 years)
WR coach: Clemson is his first job (4 years)
OL coach: 20 years of coaching bona-fide experience (hired by us last year)
TE coach: Clemson is his first job (2 years)
Defensive coaches
DC: Clemson is his first DC job (analyst experience before)
Co-DC/Safeties: Clemson is his first college job
DT coach: 3 years as position coach (college and NFL)
DE coach: 25 years of bona-fide experience (hired by us just last year)
CB/ST: 6 years experience before us, obviously proven himself at Clemson adding 8 more years
We BADLY needed veteran coaching experience. Matt Luke and Chris Rumph are the two experienced coaches listed above. Before we hired them you could add two more "first job was at Clemson." That was a disaster.
IMO the biggest reason Clemson has fallen is Dabo replaced elite, experienced coaches with personal projects. He overdid it extremely and it killed us. He took his first step in fixing it, and if we lose more games this year he will do more to solve the coaching crisis. He should have NEVER allowed this to happen. Hubris.
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Ring of Honor [23038]
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Venables was the muscle of the coaching staff. Dabo isn't the same without him.
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Sep 6, 2024, 8:47 AM
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Dabo needs some salty, energetic older dudes who will breathe fire at practice. It balances him out.
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Dynasty Maker [3463]
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Re: Venables was the muscle of the coaching staff. Dabo isn't the same without him.
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Sep 6, 2024, 8:50 AM
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Agree completely. Luke and Rumph bring a lot of toughness to the team mentality, but we need a new WR coach I believe.
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Asst Coach [823]
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Re: Venables was the muscle of the coaching staff. Dabo isn't the same without him.
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Sep 6, 2024, 9:12 AM
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If only we had someone living back in the area that was, at one time an elite wr coach? Oh yeah Jeff Scott. He needs a contract fast!
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CU Medallion [20662]
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Clemson was his first coaching job
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Nov 3, 2024, 6:23 PM
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so that means he blows
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National Champion [7758]
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Re: Clemson was his first coaching job
Nov 3, 2024, 8:48 PM
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His father was a head coach and a very, very good offensive coordinator. So there’s that.
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Associate AD [1053]
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Re: Venables was the muscle of the coaching staff. Dabo isn't the same without him.
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Sep 6, 2024, 9:57 AM
[ in reply to Venables was the muscle of the coaching staff. Dabo isn't the same without him. ] |
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I agree and really hate to say it but Dabos ego really got out of control when he had continued cfp success in the last decade. And don't kill the messenger but the first guy I remember called him out on his ego was ... FINE AUM. He had a show years back after the 2nd natty where he sàid Dabo was getting too big for his britches. Even had a psychology crony on to corroborate. But back then it just sounded like sour grapes and maybe it was. Believe we still had Venables and Elliott/Scott.
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Freshman [2]
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Re: Venables was the muscle of the coaching staff. Dabo isn't the same without him.
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Nov 3, 2024, 8:04 PM
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The challenge is that Dabo was very successful over several years, and it's difficult for him to want to change from what made him successful.
What's the motivation? Why should one change when what I did before was what made me successful?
The same thing occurs all the time. Just look around us: Sears, Howard Johnson's, K-Mart, and the list goes on.
It's not the portal; it's not NIL. It's why I should do something different than what I did before when I was winning.
I do it. You do it. Dabo does it.
Nobody but a baby wants a change.
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Rival Killer [2852]
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Re: The real reason Clemson dropped off from elite. Take a look at this...
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Sep 6, 2024, 9:01 AM
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Grisham was a dreadful hire. Also, the assistant WR coaches are Cole Stoudt and Drew Swinney. This explains a lot.
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Tiger Titan [46405]
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Pathetic.***
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Sep 6, 2024, 9:39 AM
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National Champion [7569]
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Tiger Spirit [9238]
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Clemson Sports Icon [54665]
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Re: The real reason Clemson dropped off from elite. Take a look at this...
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Sep 6, 2024, 9:02 AM
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Great post!!! Thanks, it helps when listed in black and white.
And what's so odd, is his "business " speech that several posters listed it last week. Several of us asked the Clemson media to question Dabo on why he changed up on his own philosophy... or seemingly anyway.
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Legend [6902]
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Re: The real reason Clemson dropped off from elite. Take a look at this...
Nov 3, 2024, 8:49 PM
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The media question King Dabo? Only David Hale has enough guts to do that and he’s one step away from being banned from campus. The regular Clemson media has no stomach for it.
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Playmaker [358]
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Re: The real reason Clemson dropped off from elite. Take a look at this...
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Sep 6, 2024, 9:04 AM
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I get your point and agree, but I always love that people seem to ignore the Jeff Scott and Tony Elliot case and act like this is something brand new from Dabo.
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Orange Beast [6422]
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Jeff Scott predates Dabo Swinney
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Sep 6, 2024, 9:07 AM
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Tony Elliott didn't win any big games as the only OC
LSU loss was on his offense
OSU loss was on his offense
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Clemson Conqueror [11497]
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Brad Scott pre dates Dabo Jeff does not
Sep 6, 2024, 9:13 AM
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Dabo was his position coach when he was a player
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Ring of Honor [21152]
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Rick Stockstill was his position coach***
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Sep 6, 2024, 9:48 AM
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Clemson Conqueror [11497]
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My bad looked at his coaching career not playing career, but Dabo was still
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Sep 6, 2024, 11:50 AM
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on staff before him 2003 vs 2008. In fact Dabo hired Jeff to replace him as WR coach.
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Ring of Honor [22969]
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Tiger Titan [46405]
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Elliott is a great guy, but one of the most overrated coaches.
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Sep 6, 2024, 9:41 AM
[ in reply to Jeff Scott predates Dabo Swinney ] |
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I predicted that he would not do well at UVA, and he hasn't. He will likely get more time due to the tragic shooting that occurred there, plus the fact that he's a minority. However, I don't see them ever winning more than 6-7 games a year on occasion.
He will then likely take a head coaching job at a lower level, or become an OC somewhere. I don't think he will have success in those roles either.
Again, really great guy. I love his personal story. I'm pulling for him. But I don't see it when it comes to being a really good football coach.
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Ring of Honor [22969]
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Re: Elliott is a great guy, but one of the most overrated coaches.
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Sep 6, 2024, 9:58 AM
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Jeff Scott wasn't exactly a big success as head coach, either. It's a very different job from being a position coach or a coordinator.
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Tiger Titan [46405]
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True, but my point is that Elliott wasn't a great OC either.
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Sep 6, 2024, 11:19 AM
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Our success with him was more a result of talent and continuing the prior scheme/gameplan, rather than anything noteworthy Elliott did.
When those generational players left, our offense under him was horrible.
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All-Pro [767]
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Re: Elliott is a great guy, but one of the most overrated coaches.
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Sep 6, 2024, 11:59 AM
[ in reply to Elliott is a great guy, but one of the most overrated coaches. ] |
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At this point I’d take him back as RB over Spiller and day of the week.
What has Spiller done? I don’t see any big time recruiting gets from him.
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Asst Coach [897]
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Re: The real reason Clemson dropped off from elite. Take a look at this...
Sep 6, 2024, 9:24 AM
[ in reply to Re: The real reason Clemson dropped off from elite. Take a look at this... ] |
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Not all inexperienced hires are bad, I mean Chad revolutionized our offense and he was 1 year out of high school coaching. But you need to have balance so the young guys can learn, and right now we don’t have enough of that. We way too skewed towards inexperience without people the younger guys can learn from, we need to take a few critical positions like WR and put them in proven experienced hands
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Game Changer [1882]
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Re: The real reason Clemson dropped off from elite. Take a look at this...
Sep 6, 2024, 10:01 AM
[ in reply to Re: The real reason Clemson dropped off from elite. Take a look at this... ] |
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Mike - you miss that with Jeff Scott we were also getting Diddy Scott Brad, who was the mastermind behind the offensive rise of FSU back in the day. He had extensive coaching experience and was here part of the program at Clemson. You know Jeff Scott was merely an extension of his Dad and all his experience.
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Campus Hero [13799]
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I don't mean to be "that guy" but some of us
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Sep 6, 2024, 9:11 AM
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posted our concerns about this several years ago as it was happening and got blasted on here.
I do believe this is the primary issue with our football team and all of the other issues can largely be traced back to this.
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Tiger Titan [46405]
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We sure did post our concerns.
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Sep 6, 2024, 9:43 AM
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We were called idiots, coots, etc. for daring to question Dabo. After all, he won two national championships and can do whatever he wants to do!
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Game Changer [1736]
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Re: We sure did post our concerns.
Sep 6, 2024, 9:59 AM
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It was the same name calling that went around on the baseball board when anybody with a clue wanted Monte Lee fired after the 2019 season
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Playmaker [381]
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Re: We sure did post our concerns.
Nov 3, 2024, 8:42 PM
[ in reply to We sure did post our concerns. ] |
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Hey JK, I agree with some of your comments, but quit being such a d***head about it! You make some good comments sometime, but you usually kill it when you become a common troll!
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Ultimate Tiger [37260]
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Re: We sure did post our concerns.
Nov 4, 2024, 5:28 AM
[ in reply to We sure did post our concerns. ] |
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And dang just think Dabo was hired and he was loaded with experience.
When we win we are top 10. When we lose we have bad coaches. Guess folks need something to post about. SMH
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Clemson Conqueror [11497]
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You list him as inexperienced but Nick Eason is an elite coach; were good on D
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Sep 6, 2024, 9:17 AM
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I’m happy with all of the coaches including the DC. The offense though we need a new WR and RB coach. I think the jury is still out on Riley; he’s not been given the ingredients so far to be elite.
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Ring of Honor [23038]
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I didn't call him inexperienced. I just listed his experience in years.
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Sep 6, 2024, 9:32 AM
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I posted here that Nick Eason was a great hire when we made it. I hope I am proven right.
My point isn't that inexperience is bad. My point is that we were terribly imbalanced and had WAY too many personal project hires and not enough experience. Nick Eason is definitely NOT a personal project hire. He's an ideal hire.
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Clemson Conqueror [11497]
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Yeah Eason is the man we stole him away from Auburn and hed likely have an NFL
Sep 6, 2024, 11:32 AM
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job if he wanted one. People weren’t lining up to hire a lot of the the guys we have on offense.
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Orange Beast [6408]
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BINGO!***
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Sep 6, 2024, 9:22 AM
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National Champion [7569]
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Agree 100%
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Sep 6, 2024, 9:33 AM
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The last few years have demonstrated the results of the lack of real experience on this staff. The team is poorly coached in many areas. Dabo was already forced to address the OL after last season's disaster; I have no idea why he wouldn't go ahead and address the issue with WR at the same time. It's also clear to me that he has lost his way with QB recruiting and development. One notable thing is that this has absolutely NOTHING to do with NIL or the transfer portal. It's about what you make out of the raw talent already on board, and who is in charge of that.
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Tiger Titan [46405]
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Yep. Dabo attributed too much of our success to culture and people
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Sep 6, 2024, 9:38 AM
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and not enough to coaching and player talent.
He thought he could bring the right people he liked and trusted and as long as the culture was good, we would keep being elite.
He still believes that. In one of his press conferences this week, he said something to the effect of, when you have the right people, the rest takes care of itself.
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Orange Immortal [67425]
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He's not wrong about that...
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Sep 6, 2024, 9:51 AM
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but the "right people" is a relative term.
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Game Changer [1882]
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Re: The real reason Clemson dropped off from elite. Take a look at this...
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Sep 6, 2024, 9:49 AM
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I agree with what you say except maybe a tad with Goodwin. He has more experience than you give credit for. He had several years as a right hand man defensively to Ariens in the NFL and I believe he also coached under Sylvester Croom in the SEC at Mississippi State? He was considered a great defensive mind in all his stops and was being tabbed by Venables to go with him to Oklahoma State if Dabo hadn’t grabbed him up. He is still growing as a DC but I believe he was a great hire. Definitely agree with you on the offensive side of the ball. We lost not only Jeff Scott, who was also a Clemson guy, but keep in mind Brad Scott was part of that formula. Brad’s extensive coaching history and knowledge fed into Jeff. I would argue that losing Brad and Jeff was bigger than losing Venables.
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Game Changer [1882]
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Re: The real reason Clemson dropped off from elite. Take a look at this...
Sep 6, 2024, 9:55 AM
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Another note…at least with CJ, while inexperienced, he had the benefit of playing some quality years in the NFL and learning how he was coached at that level. Having said that, I don’t think CJ is proving to be a great recruiter, which hurts a lot. With WR coaching we have zero experience except the Clemson experience and we have zero NFL player experience with those coaches. The younger Swinney has scout team experience to pass along I suppose. Oh my!
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Game Changer [1882]
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Orange Immortal [67425]
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I am as big a supporter of Dabo as anyone...
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Sep 6, 2024, 9:50 AM
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but I too have been critical of his inclination to hire inexperienced assistants for critical roles as opposed to candidates with veteran coaching experience. I also think it's fair to say the Grisham/Spiller experiments have proven to be unsuccessful and it's past time to move on in another direction.
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Game Changer [1736]
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Re: The real reason Clemson dropped off from elite. Take a look at this...
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Sep 6, 2024, 9:56 AM
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This is spot on and can’t wait to see who disagrees so I can know who not to listen to
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All-American [580]
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Re: The real reason Clemson dropped off from elite. Take a look at this...
Sep 6, 2024, 11:17 AM
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So who were the elite, experienced coaches before other than Venables? Chad Morris came out of high school. Tony and Jeff were never a coordinator.
Message was edited by: cu83fan®
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CU Medallion [18919]
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Re: The real reason Clemson dropped off from elite. Take a look at this...
Sep 6, 2024, 11:22 AM
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Dabo initially had the magic touch of coaching selections by going out and getting guys from the outside like Morris and BV, but once they left, along with Scott, the family and friends program absolutely derailed us and has set us back the last few seasons.
Unfortunately, it will take time to retool and get the program to gel again, and we are just living with the aftermath right now.
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TigerNet Legend [145152]
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Things went south when we lost experienced coaches
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Sep 6, 2024, 11:22 AM
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like Morris, Elliott, and Scott and replaced them with coaches with little prior experience.
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Heisman Winner [84182]
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Re: Things went south when we lost experienced coaches
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Sep 6, 2024, 11:48 AM
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Ring of Honor [23038]
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Athletic Dir [1176]
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Re: The real reason Clemson dropped off from elite. Take a look at this...
Sep 6, 2024, 11:46 AM
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Makes sense to me. Not going after experience seems to be a fault for Dabo.why doesn’t he hire Scott who got fired?
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Rival Killer [2660]
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Re: The real reason Clemson dropped off from elite. Take a look at this...
Sep 6, 2024, 11:52 AM
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I think the regular season was coming so easy during the CFP years Dabo may have become complacent. And possibly tired of hearing he was a CEO coach, not X’s and O’s. Thus the Wes hire after BV. Not so much the hire, but the “we didn’t look outside the program at all” thing Dabo said.
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All-Pro [767]
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Re: The real reason Clemson dropped off from elite. Take a look at this...
Sep 6, 2024, 11:55 AM
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Awesome post. I agree totally. This combined with the self imposed Portal/NIL sanctions, and you get what you are seeing.
I wonder if Dabo is embarrassed about what he did to his own program or if he really realizes or even cares?
I miss the old Dabo and the old dominance.
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National Champion [7174]
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Rock Defender [59]
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Clemson Conqueror [11188]
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Re: The real reason Clemson dropped off from elite. Take a look at this...
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Sep 6, 2024, 12:40 PM
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I agree with coaching inexperience having been a problem. More so on the offensive side. And what I think he was trying to do was keep the "Clemson Family" model he has been running for a few years now and use it as an incentive to recruits promising them the coaches will be there until graduation or hit the NFL. And he was hiring former alumnus coaches who has a passion for coaching and will stay with Clemson but lack the experience to do it. I think CDS figured the talented players would cover up for their initial coaching inexperience until they get up to speed. Problem is NIL and the transfer portal has change college football and we are no longer getting those players we need. And Clemson has failed in the coaching department. I think Dabo is realizing we need experienced coaches who can coach and have established recruiting networks/relationships now with recent firings/hirings. I still believe he can turn it around, but it'll take some time to do it.
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Game Changer [1932]
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Re: The real reason Clemson dropped off from elite. Take a look at this...
Sep 6, 2024, 1:26 PM
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I agree with coaching inexperience having been a problem. More so on the offensive side. And what I think he was trying to do was keep the "Clemson Family" model he has been running for a few years now and use it as an incentive to recruits promising them the coaches will be there until graduation or hit the NFL. And he was hiring former alumnus coaches who has a passion for coaching and will stay with Clemson but lack the experience to do it. I think CDS figured the talented players would cover up for their initial coaching inexperience until they get up to speed. Problem is NIL and the transfer portal has change college football and we are no longer getting those players we need. And Clemson has failed in the coaching department. I think Dabo is realizing we need experienced coaches who can coach and have established recruiting networks/relationships now with recent firings/hirings. I still believe he can turn it around, but it'll take some time to do it.
I think you hit the nail on the head. I think Dabo is realizing it now too, he can turn it around, but it will require some time and patience.
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Valley Protector [1484]
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Re: The real reason Clemson dropped off from elite. Take a look at this...
Sep 6, 2024, 1:25 PM
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100%, spot on!
I would also add the two "QB coaches" (one being T. Boyd, while I think he is good person and a great former player.....he had some episodes of "Headcase" during games. And the "assistant WR coach".....first time coach.
Someone posted a link to the entire coaching staff the other day, while I love the former players getting into coaching.....they MUST "cut their teeth" somewhere OTHER than Clemson! It is really ridiculous the # of first time coaches we have......it's like High School, seriously!
Go Tigers!!!
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Dynasty Maker [3474]
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Re: The real reason Clemson dropped off from elite. Take a look at this...
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Sep 6, 2024, 1:30 PM
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Let me help with two more reasons. No Deshaun or Trevor. We were lucky Georgia gifted us with two generational quarterbacks.
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Tiger Spirit [9481]
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I'm not disappointed with the job that Gravy Biscuit has done at DC***
Sep 6, 2024, 4:55 PM
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null
Message was edited by: 1portroyalty®
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Ring of Honor [23038]
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I am***
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Nov 3, 2024, 6:15 PM
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National Champion [7758]
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Asst Coach [897]
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Re: The real reason Clemson dropped off from elite. Take a look at this...
Nov 3, 2024, 6:19 PM
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Dabo put too much faith in his culture at Clemson. I think he’s started to fix some of the mistakes with hiring Riley and Luke, but there’s clearer some more to be done. Also, we got to do something about the drop in talent level
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Hall of Famer [8473]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Brooks and Hobby were a good combo on Dline***
Nov 3, 2024, 6:46 PM
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Starter [276]
TigerPulse: 40%
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Re: The real reason Clemson dropped off from elite. Take a look at this...
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Nov 3, 2024, 6:50 PM
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Great points here. Those coaches were camouflage for Dabo.
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Orange Beast [6422]
TigerPulse: 97%
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ur a Clemson Football prophet***
Nov 3, 2024, 7:09 PM
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Ring of Honor [23038]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 2003
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lol***
Nov 3, 2024, 10:02 PM
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Offensive Star [330]
TigerPulse: 93%
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Re: The real reason Clemson dropped off from elite. Take a look at this...
Nov 3, 2024, 7:46 PM
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I think Dan Rad stole a part of the rock,blamed it on some kid and took it to Miami with him.
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Orange Beast [6599]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: The real reason Clemson dropped off from elite. Take a look at this...
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Nov 3, 2024, 8:04 PM
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Agree with this take.
After 2019, we could have followed the model that Saban created where he reloaded with elite experienced proven NFL/College level coaching hires every year. And he made it work.
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Standout [231]
TigerPulse: 88%
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Re: The real reason Clemson dropped off from elite. Take a look at this...
Nov 3, 2024, 8:09 PM
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Here’s what changes I would make:
Goodwin fired or demoted. New WR coach. Designated LB and ST coach.
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Standout [231]
TigerPulse: 88%
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Re: The real reason Clemson dropped off from elite. Take a look at this...
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Nov 3, 2024, 8:10 PM
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Also a new strength coach. Those boys are WEAK
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Orange Elite [5213]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: The real reason Clemson dropped off from elite. Take a look at this...
Nov 3, 2024, 8:21 PM
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I agree with you. As I posted earlier, the Louisville game lacked a game plan on offense and defense. We did not exploit their weaknesses nor utilize our strengths. Our players are too talented to be under coached like that.
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National Champion [7758]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: The real reason Clemson dropped off from elite. Take a look at this...
Nov 3, 2024, 8:47 PM
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Bingo. Combined this with the arrogance of refusing to fill obvious holes in the roster with a few quality transfers, and you get four middling years.
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CU Medallion [20788]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 1995
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Dabo is convinced that God has chosen him to lead young men.
Nov 3, 2024, 8:50 PM
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And maybe that is so, unfortunately that doesn’t include being an elite program in terms of winning.
I have no problem with any of that except the pay needs to reflect the success.
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National Champion [7758]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Dabo is convinced that God has chosen him to lead young men.
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Nov 3, 2024, 8:52 PM
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Seriously, if you are top three in pay, you can’t be playing in the mayo bowl
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National Champion [7910]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: The real reason Clemson dropped off from elite. Take a look at this...
Nov 3, 2024, 8:58 PM
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True.
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Campus Hero [13129]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Posts: 16466
Joined: 2010
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Yep some of us have been pointing this out for a while***
Nov 3, 2024, 11:23 PM
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