Re: The message yesterday brought up some questions

The message yesterday brought up some questions

I know that's shocking.

The preacher was in 2 Thessalonians particularly this passage:

"This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels. He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might on the day he comes to be glorified in his holy people and to be marveled at among all those who have believed. "

He went on to comment that there will be no chance after Jesus comes however, this seems to contradict what Paul says in Philippians:

"Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."

If every one will confess Jesus as Lord, why will everyone not go to heaven?

What about Doubting Thomas? The gospels indicate that he made fun of the other disciples before seeing the risen Jesus? Didn't he go on to be held up as a saint and martyr?

It's also worth noting that 2 Thessalonians is widely considered to be pseudepigraphal and a response to the claim in 1 Thessalonians that Jesus would return within the lifetime of those believers.

Re: The message yesterday brought up some questions

Fordtunate Son

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Oct 20, 2025, 2:36 PM

Another thing in Thess 2 that gets my attention is the recurring theme of God being responsible for evil. For all things, in fact. That is consistent with Isaiah 45:7, but it feels odd when seen in practice. And, it sort of undermines Free Will, if God is in the role of divine influencer. How much Free Will does one have when God is working against you? Can one resist the will of God, and if they can, does he still qualify as all-powerful?

Thess 2:11
"For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness."

That idea shows up again in Romans 1:28.

"Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done."

I mean, those people in Romans 1:28 may have been completely fine citizens and non-believers, but God gave them over to depravity. Not depravity from their own Free Will actions...depravity by God's action.

And here it is again, in Ezekiel 14:9

“‘And if the prophet is enticed to utter a [false] prophecy, I the Lord have enticed that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand against him and destroy him from among my people Israel. They [plural] will bear their guilt—the prophet will be as guilty as the one who consults him."

Again, if it's a lie through a prophet's mouth, it came from God himself? Did this prophet have the Free Will to lie, or was he forced to parrot God's lies from the very beginning? And why would God lie at all? What purpose does it serve?

And here, in John 12:40 (via Isaiah 6:10)

“He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts, so they can neither see with their eyes, nor understand with their hearts..."

It's a very hard thing to grasp, and there seems to be a real back and forth in the Bible between people who believe others do wrong/sinful things of their own accord, and those who believe do them because God led them to do that, as punishment for not believing in him. And why is God punishing them at all, instead of just waiting for judgement Day?

It also begs the question, "How can one be sure when someone is sinning from their own choices, vs. sinning as punishment from God? How can one hate the sin (and love the sinner) when the sin is God's plan, as punishment for non-believers?

Should we love someone who God has condemned and punished? Is that going against God's will?

Very confusing, and difficult to navigate.

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Re: The message yesterday brought up some questions

The message yesterday brought up some questions