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So now that Dabo's successfully redefined winning for 98.5%
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Rock Defender [54]
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So now that Dabo's successfully redefined winning for 98.5%
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Oct 19, 2023, 11:26 AM
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of you ... mansplaining winning from the 1.5% side of things seems in order --
As a gerund, winning is gaining victory over an opponent.
As an adjective, winning is a little murkier to define.
To say "Dabo has a winning smile" is easy to understand. To say "Dabo says he's got a winning program" is where it breaks down.
Some of you think Dabo's still got a winning program -- that's the 98.5 crowd.
Others, not so much -- the 1.5 crowd.
For $100 mil, winning for the 1.5 crowd means gaining victory over virtually every opponent in the regular season, gaining victory over every opponent in the conference title game, then gaining victory over at least one opponent (or more starting next year) in the CFP format.
ANything short of that is not winning (gerund) and not winning (adjective). It's reloading, rebuilding, retooling, revamping -- whatever velvet-lined term makes you feel better about not winning.
(At Texas, it's been "We're BACK!" and that's not winning or winning. It's just velvet-lining while the HC figures out a way to start the actual winning back up.)
In another thread someone suggested how exhausting mansplaining must be. They're right! It is!
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CU Guru [1085]
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Re: So now that Dabo's successfully redefined winning for 98.5%
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Oct 19, 2023, 11:45 AM
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Clemson has won three national championships in football total. The spoiled 1.5% now except undefeated seasons every single year. Impossible. Will never happen. Does losing suck, sure, but it happens. Its how you respond
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CU Guru [1085]
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Re: So now that Dabo's successfully redefined winning for 98.5%
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Oct 19, 2023, 11:46 AM
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expect*
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Rock Defender [54]
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Orange Blooded [2055]
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Re: So now that Dabo's successfully redefined winning for 98.5%
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Oct 19, 2023, 11:57 AM
[ in reply to Re: So now that Dabo's successfully redefined winning for 98.5% ] |
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LOL, I don't know ANYONE who expects us to go undefeated for evermore. But I DO know some of us that DO expect Dabo hire coaches across the board that are really, really good and weren't first his college roommate and/or weren't last coaching at the HS level and/or the vast majority of their "coaching" experiences have occurred while solely on the Clemson staff. (i"m talking mostly about Special teams coaches and analysts). I expect the coaching searches and hires to occur on a nationwide scale, especially for a program of this caliber. Not mostly in our own football complex, or mostly in Alabama or at Daniel High School. Especially when he is collecting $12m a year and we claim "best is the standard".
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Rock Defender [54]
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Your point is well-taken about the coaching thing.
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Oct 19, 2023, 12:03 PM
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It feeds directly into the winning thing. I do expect national title runs every year. Or almost every year. Saban's been able to do it.
Of course, he prolly won't do it this year.
And if he doesn't do it next year or the next, I bet the Bama fanboards'll look a lot like this one with the pumpers rushing to defend him and the realists saying "Maybe we can do better for what we're paying this dude."
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Hall of Famer [22975]
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Re: Your point is well-taken about the coaching thing.
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Oct 19, 2023, 3:46 PM
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The realists will understand the situation and the dumpers will be crying they want all their money back.
There I fixed it for you.
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Rock Defender [54]
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So, "realism" is .... what?
Oct 19, 2023, 8:39 PM
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Being okay with paying a guy top-two money who yet cant deliver a T25 team?
Man. I wish I lived in your world.
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CU Guru [1502]
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Re: So, "realism" is .... what?
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Oct 19, 2023, 9:28 PM
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Well, Mr. Texas man, you do have a point. I mean, look at what impatience and linguistically accurate word definitions has brought to Texas in contemporary times. Next year makes 19 years since a national title? National Relevance? Well, this season isn’t over, and seems promising enough, so maybe the string is broken at 13 years? How many coaches have done their time in the Nam’ that is Austin since 2013? Let’s see (oh, that’s only ten years) Strong, Herman, now Sarkisian, or however that’s spelled. And that dude with the .767 winning percentage that was run off/forced resigned/forced retired because he was making way too much money and had let the game pass him by? (Wait, wasn’t he the only Texas HC to win a national title in like a bazillion years or something?) Well, it seems he had become way too stodgy and filled with excuses, if I remember correctly. (Sound familiar, Clemson fans?) He must be retired or something now, right? Is he dead? He might be. Didn’t he do TV or something? How’s he doing at the moment? Have you heard? No matter. One thing is for certain, he forgot how to coach and win after 2009 anyway, so who cares?
Yes, totally sign Clemson up for that. The last little tantrum the 1.5% had resulted in five years of trying to roll out a Danny Ford clone to the tune of two losing seasons and perennial 7-5 level success. Then, that was followed by about 12 years of being a national punchline and wishing upon wishing that it could be like 1987 again. Boy, oh boy! Sign me up for that today. I mean, Dabo is making a LOT of money based on what he does PRESENTLY, in real time, right? Isn’t that how all salaries are determined when someone is hired? It’s based on your performance for each day’s work on that particular day? Yes, that’s how it works.
BEST IS THE STANDARD . . . unless you can slink back into the trench of mediocrity and ridicule and trips to the Humanitarian Bowl (in the sleet and snow in a blue football field at the beginning of winter) which you should TOTALLY choose every time. After thinking about it like this, how does Dabo even still have a job? FIRE DABO! Get Tom Herman on the line, STAT!
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Rock Defender [54]
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Bravo. Nicely done.
Oct 19, 2023, 9:43 PM
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Somebody call Neff. See if he'll extend Dabo to 2040 and another $100M.
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CU Guru [1502]
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Re: Bravo. Nicely done.
Oct 19, 2023, 11:41 PM
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Hahahahahahahaha!!! His name is Mac Brown, Mr. Texas man. Say it aloud. Hahahahahahaha!!!!
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Rock Defender [54]
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LOL!
Oct 20, 2023, 8:24 AM
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CU Guru [1591]
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Re: Your point is well-taken about the coaching thing.
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Oct 19, 2023, 8:45 PM
[ in reply to Your point is well-taken about the coaching thing. ] |
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Actually, you are wrong again, Come and take it! Saban has made 6 trips to the college football playoffs and so has Dabo. Take your 1969 ACC Championship and go home! So, Saban doesn't make it every year!
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Rock Defender [54]
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Seven.
Oct 19, 2023, 8:55 PM
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All-TigerNet [11162]
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Rock Defender [54]
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Saban's won several titles.
Oct 21, 2023, 7:22 AM
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Saban is Dabo's daddy. C'mon.
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Legend [16334]
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Legend [18808]
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Thats just it. Its also how you win or lose.
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Oct 19, 2023, 5:57 PM
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Losing by several TDs to Duke was, in a word, embarrassing.
The loss to FSU was the best game we played all year - A LOSS.
This is the new “Best” and very standard lately.
Still, let’s see how this season turns out. But if we do lose 3 or 4 more, do not expect the pumper- pack to acknowledge anything is wrong.
My God, I hope we don’t lose three or four more though.
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Varsity [238]
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Re: Thats just it. Its also how you win or lose.
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Oct 19, 2023, 6:14 PM
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Hey pacific how about pony up you little bettygirl
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Rock Defender [54]
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Losing three or even two more would be a
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Oct 19, 2023, 8:47 PM
[ in reply to Thats just it. Its also how you win or lose. ] |
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calamity on so many levels its hard to define them all.
Sub-10-win season.
Lousy bowl situation.
Recruiting? Yeah right.
One way (outgoing) portal rush.
Prolly finish ranked somewhere down there with Carolina. Mid-40s or worse.
With a coach who makes about twice the average NFL coach...much less other college coaches.
Four or five losses is a total detonation.
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CU Guru [1502]
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Re: "spoiled" another gaslighting buzz word dabo threw out
Oct 19, 2023, 11:49 PM
[ in reply to "spoiled" another gaslighting buzz word dabo threw out ] |
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I remember this one time, this “legendary” Clemson coach took a Top 10 team into Durham and lost to Duke. In the rain. And, he quit (or was it fired?) at the end of that year, so maybe you can keep the fire burning that history repeats itself, right?
Oh, and that Duke team won the ACC title that year. They were pretty good
Oh, and that Clemson team? Would you believe it ended that season ranked right where it was when the season began? Wow!
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Legend [18808]
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Apples and oranges***
Oct 20, 2023, 8:39 AM
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Rock Defender [54]
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Yeah other than the losing to Duke part
Oct 21, 2023, 7:26 AM
[ in reply to Re: "spoiled" another gaslighting buzz word dabo threw out ] |
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I dont see any of those other things happening again.
Dabo's got a lot of runway left. It'd be easier to raze DV than adios Dabo for at least the next two seasons, depending on outcomes.
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Standout [340]
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Please provide the FULL list, college or pro,
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Oct 19, 2023, 11:49 AM
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Of programs that would meet your “winning” requirements
There are none.
Thus you, and those that rode in on your boat with you, are no more than a useless bag of deer schat, at best.
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Rock Defender [54]
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DQ's selling chicken strip/onion ring baskets.
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Oct 19, 2023, 11:57 AM
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I mention it because you seem the type to enjoy such things and I want to be amicable.
https://www.dairyqueen.com/en-us/
Programs that live up to that expectation:
Clemson did for a few years there.(It's kind of the basis of my OP)
Bama is usually right there.
Georgia's right there now.
The Cowboys were there in the 90s.
Niners, too.
Patriots of course.
You seem to believe high expectations are somehow wrong or misguided. Here's your chicken basket.
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CU Guru [1403]
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Re: DQ's selling chicken strip/onion ring baskets.
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Oct 19, 2023, 12:44 PM
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How many consecutive 10 win seasons has Dabo produced? How many other programs have achieved this? Didn’t Clemson win the ACC last year? This is still a winning program. When we go consecutive years not making it to the conference championship, then we can start talking.
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Rock Defender [54]
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That's a good point.
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Oct 19, 2023, 12:53 PM
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If winning conference titles was the point. I guess I wasn't clear and I apologize for that.
I'll try again:
For $12Mish/year, you have to win all the regular season games (or all but maybe one) then the conference title then the first (or second or third or all) CFP playoff games. That's winning (adjective).
So this'll not be a winning season. Nor was last season. Let me know when not winning becomes a problem. Four seasons? Three? Five? Ten?
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Standout [340]
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You still have not named one program that meets
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Oct 19, 2023, 12:57 PM
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your requirement as stated. Cat got your tongue, mouse?
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Rock Defender [54]
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I did a couple of posts up.
Oct 19, 2023, 1:02 PM
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Scroll back through you'll find it. Or tell me how those programs didn't/aren't/weren't winning. How they looked more like 4-2 with no shot at a conference title.
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Standout [340]
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No you didnt
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Oct 19, 2023, 1:14 PM
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Every one you named started and stopped.
Yet you hold Dabo to a higher standard.
You can’t meet your own requirements. Silly mouse.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Comes with $12M/year.
Oct 19, 2023, 8:49 PM
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The higher standard, that is.
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Standout [340]
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Every other team you named - every one that failed to meet your standard
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Oct 21, 2023, 4:41 AM
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also had a very well compensated Coach. Bama, UGA, Cowboys.... all met your standard for a "while", but then didn't.... and don't (UGA has for 2 years only). But they've all kept paying their Coaches, even so.
Now you're just being a d*ck, and not even trying to back your BS up. This is what happens when the bluster outpaces the brains. Next time you want to go get your chest "all blowed up" over something, walk out into the pasture and see what those real Longhorns think about it.
Check ya' later, pumpkin.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Pumpkin?
Oct 21, 2023, 7:20 AM
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My nanny used to call me that.
She was a lovely lady.
So, missy, youre right: those programs pay their coaches Dabo money. Both are winning programs. Dabo's is not. And maybe wont be for a while.
Aaaand we're back at square one. Nice work.
Shad are schooling and the center console calls.
Think on things and get back to me. I'll likely check back in this evening.
Message toned down by: CATI's nanny
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Standout [340]
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So Dabo won the last ACC Championship that was played
Oct 21, 2023, 1:11 PM
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but he's not a "winning program"?
Let me ask: do you think this is a "talent" that you have somehow?
Because really, stupid isn't a talent.
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Hall of Famer [22975]
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Re: That's a good point.
Oct 19, 2023, 3:49 PM
[ in reply to That's a good point. ] |
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Your opinion and you are entitled to it. Just like people who believe the current run of double digit win seasons constitutes a winning program are entitled to their opinion. You don’t get to decide what winning is for others.
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Rock Defender [54]
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That's what scoreboards are for.
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Oct 19, 2023, 8:57 PM
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Just win, baby. And $12M outta buy all the wins, few exceptions.
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All-Conference [407]
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Re: That's a good point.
Oct 19, 2023, 3:54 PM
[ in reply to That's a good point. ] |
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So we have had 4 winning season by your criteria? 2 with Watson and 2 with Lawrence? Those are the only 4 seasons I can think of where we won at least 1 CFP game.
I find it interesting that Dabo's salary seems to be such a sticking point for some. If he only made $7-8M a year would simply making the playoffs equate to a "winning" year?
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Rock Defender [54]
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Ive thought about that ...
Oct 19, 2023, 9:09 PM
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if the thing about the money is unfair.
I dont think so.
Here's why:
I get paid a little more than the average for what I do because I do what I do above the average.
Im not great, but I am good. And Im paid for it.
Now, if I were making about ****40 times*** the average (as Dabo is) and my salary accounted for a WHOPPING 15% of company revenues (as Dabo's does) ... yeah, I'd think I'd need to deliver at the highest level, every fiscal year.
If he only (LOL) made $7M a year ... he'd still make more than alot of NFL HCs, much less college HCs.
But at $7M, sure, I guess losing to Duke and blaming the fans would be a bargain?
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All-Conference [407]
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Re: Ive thought about that ...
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Oct 19, 2023, 9:31 PM
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You sound angry. I’m guessing your salary is hourly…
Who cares how much Dabo is paid? Are you getting adversely affected by his salary?
I’m also guessing you’re young, at least I hope so.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Young, hourly, mostly happy.
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Oct 19, 2023, 9:47 PM
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But hey, keep up the condescending routine it's working!! I'm rethinking everything!
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All-Conference [407]
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Re: Young and hourly
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Oct 19, 2023, 10:40 PM
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Yep, that tells me all I need to know. You’ll probably figure it out eventually. Good luck I. The meantime.
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Rock Defender [54]
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"How to make $12 mil with no expectations
Oct 21, 2023, 7:35 AM
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while building a fanbase full of comatose genuflectors in five simple steps."
Sign me right up for that snake oil session.
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110%er [8563]
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Re: So now that Dabo's successfully redefined winning for 98.5%
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Oct 19, 2023, 12:36 PM
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It is not about money because the market determines the money. It is not hard to look up our record since Dabo took and nobody that has a pulse can say we are not a winning program.
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Rock Defender [54]
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I only have a 52% pulse.
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Oct 19, 2023, 1:00 PM
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And even I can see that the latest version -- the 98.5-friendly version -- of winning isn't the kind of winning that got Dabo the $100M+ deal in the first place. Program's trending down while his money's going up.
Gotta love college athletics.
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Freshman [-79]
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Were 4th in P5 program wins in the last 3 seasons and 5th in the last 2.
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Oct 19, 2023, 12:47 PM
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You’re nuts.
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Rock Defender [54]
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See that's the problem.
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Oct 19, 2023, 1:12 PM
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98.5ers love the all the useless stats. Fifth-most in this ... fourth-most in that. So what? I got a kick out of the KC Chiefs going 13-3 all those years and losing in the first round of the playoffs.
But then again, I was a Cowboys fan. Winning first meant taking the NFC east. Then the NFC. Then the Super Bowl. All had to happen in that order. No shortcuts. "No 28-7 Duke but we won on paper" games.
For a few years there, the road to the Super Bowl went right through Dallas. That was winning. And when it ended, it ended.
So, no, not nuts.
Either you win the title or you don't.
If you don't, you own it.
Either way, you don't get poopy when rational people look at you, your program, and the massive salary you're drawing and say "Soooo...you gonna win again anytime soon?
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Hall of Famer [22975]
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Re: See that's the problem.
Oct 19, 2023, 3:52 PM
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Just curious - how old are you? Dallas was very good in the 70s and again maybe in the 90s. There have been a whole lot of years in between when they were not very good at all. They certainly don’t fit your definition of a winner.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Right.
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Oct 19, 2023, 9:18 PM
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Hence my saying "and when it ended, it ended."
Dallas suks. And has since Jerry stopped being accountable (right after he won ring no. 3) and started thinking he was the smartest guy in the room.
Which incidentally is right around the time since started in with the "Did y'all like them Super Bowls?" in response to anyone questioning the team's crap play and his IDIOTIC personnel decisions.
Sound familiar?
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All-In [27892]
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Re: So now that Dabo's successfully redefined winning for 98.5%
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Oct 19, 2023, 1:02 PM
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F-Texas!
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Rock Defender [54]
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Man. That's a hot take.
Oct 19, 2023, 2:30 PM
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Out of retirement for five minutes and already dropping f-bombs?
Breathe. Find your center. Smile. It's gonna be okay.
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110%er [9660]
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Re: So now that Dabo's successfully redefined winning for 98.5%
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Oct 19, 2023, 3:15 PM
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What I dislike the most lately is the gas lighting of “fans” that don’t fall in line with his bull! The only other individual who is beholden to a people who pay him that does it as often and as well is Biden, and I can’t stand him either
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Rock Defender [54]
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Don't let it get you down.
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Oct 19, 2023, 3:30 PM
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If Clemson runs the table the rest of the way, wins the mayonnaise bowl, throttles UGA to start things off next year on the way to a Natty run, all is well.
If not, all is not well. And suddenly the 1.5% become the 15% ... then the 30% ... and so on.
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Orange Blooded [2351]
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So
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Oct 19, 2023, 3:41 PM
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As a likely 1.5er because I post things besides ALL IN at times and put in some occasional armchair coach or QB work for free, but not the least bit bandwagon, I fully support the Dabo contract and hope he sticks around to the end of it (2031?) and beyond if he likes. I do think we’re in decline, but still see encouraging recruiting news and see this team as potentially on the brink of greatness (even if not the past greatness levels). Whatever Dabo is earning during this drop-off (decline, rebuild, whatever) is covering what he wasn’t earning as we went to the very top. I’m good with it.
But the 1.5 in me really doesn’t like a lot of the denial I’ve heard. Since we are 4-2, I believe a 4-2 team is exactly what we are. Regardless of what might have been. Like everyone else I have my theories on how we got here, but it’s just my layman’s opinion.
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Legend [18808]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Great post!
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Oct 19, 2023, 6:07 PM
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This pretty much sums up how I feel.
I really don’t put much stock in what people post on here who obviously have an agenda. If you can’t see or willfully ignore that we are in a decline then you’re not being objective and instead being disingenuous.
I mean, I like reading all the different posts, and I also enjoy a good pumper argument.
At the end of the day, just get it together Tigers!!!!
Beat Miami!!!!
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Rock Defender [54]
TigerPulse: 90%
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Joined: 11/30/98
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Im all-in as a 1.5er.
Oct 19, 2023, 9:27 PM
[ in reply to So ] |
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Didnt think he was worth the Saban-level money. Thought it was an emotional decision on board's part more than a football one. Cant blame Dabo for signing, tho. It'd take a giant spine to say "Nah, I think I'll take half that."
And now it is what it is: the second highest paid dude in college ball and a program in decline.
Seeing it as money paid in arrears for all those low (LOL) paid years when he was only a millionaire is one way of looking at it, I guess.
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Orange Blooded [2351]
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Re: Im all-in as a 1.5er.
Oct 19, 2023, 9:32 PM
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I heard he was taking a reduction back to $10M. Says he just wanted to be done with the 1.5.
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Rock Defender [54]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
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$10M and a smaller bandwagon.
Oct 19, 2023, 9:40 PM
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Hall of Famer [22975]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 11600
Joined: 10/12/14
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Re: So now that Dabo's successfully redefined winning for 98.5%
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Oct 19, 2023, 3:44 PM
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Haha. Yea. Double digit consecutive seasons of double digit wins isn’t a winning program. Y’all rewriting the dictionary now too. 😂😂
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Rock Defender [54]
TigerPulse: 90%
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Joined: 11/30/98
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Turn around -- face forward.
Oct 19, 2023, 9:55 PM
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Isnt where the program's been. It's where it's going.
Double-digit wins? OU has like 45 of 'em. So what?!
Jiminy what is with you pumpers and the meaningless moral victories.
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Orange Blooded [3369]
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Re: So now that Dabo's successfully redefined winning for 98.5%
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Oct 19, 2023, 5:42 PM
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Well there is no excuse we lost to Duke and the FSU game was managed very poorly.
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Rock Defender [54]
TigerPulse: 90%
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Joined: 11/30/98
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Oh there's almost always an excuse.
Oct 19, 2023, 9:59 PM
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And there'll be plenty more if they flame out again this season.
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Walk-On [123]
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Joined: 9/3/23
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Re: So now that Dabo's successfully redefined winning for 98.5%
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Oct 19, 2023, 5:54 PM
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Puddin'
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