|
Replies: 33
| visibility 204
|
Ring of Honor [23707]
TigerPulse: 99%
53
Posts: 32381
Joined: 1998
|
Clemson is leaving millions on the table with Basketball
Feb 4, 2020, 10:03 AM
|
|
revenues from poor attendance, as well as tv and postseason. Attendance has plummeted each year under Brownell. I would think local businesses would love a better basketball product and what it would do for their revenues. Are we reaching a point where, having been lost in the desert for so long, people who used to be big fans have found other interests that will prevent them from ever returning to the fold? I think so.
My question is why, from a business standpoint, would our administration not try to maximize the revenues from Clemson basketball by investing a bit more in the program and hiring a coaching staff who can put a consistent product on the floor?
|
|
|
|
 |
Clemson Conqueror [11392]
TigerPulse: 100%
46
Posts: 13993
Joined: 2014
|
Re: Clemson is leaving millions on the table with Basketball
Feb 4, 2020, 10:10 AM
|
|
If they have the $ to do it, I'm sure they will. But, they want to win championships......in football. The moola is devoted to that purpose. Basketball takes a back seat. Always has. I'm sure fans of UNANCY, Dook, NC Snake and Weak wonder why their administrations don't spend more $ in football. Because they want to win championships in basketball. Always has been this way.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Paw Warrior [4709]
TigerPulse: 82%
37
|
Re: Clemson is leaving millions on the table with Basketball
Feb 4, 2020, 7:25 PM
|
|
It is very difficult and rare to stay in the top 25 in both sports at the same time.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Guru [1114]
TigerPulse: 83%
26
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Guru [1260]
TigerPulse: 47%
27
|
bullcrap***
Feb 4, 2020, 10:03 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [11478]
TigerPulse: 100%
46
|
Re: Clemson is leaving millions on the table with Basketball
Feb 4, 2020, 10:10 AM
|
|
Clemson would lose money initially if they change coaches.
First they would have to pay Brownell's buyout along with any assistant coaches who have buyouts.
Then we would have to sign the next guy to a bigger contract than what Brownell has if we expect to get an upgrade in performance.
Those are two big hits to the program budget.
Assuming the new coach has a gradual increase in performance while getting the right players and more talent, how long would it take for the athletic department to simply recover what was spent to get rid of Brownell?
How much more is really being left on the table for Clemson basketball?
Fans from around the state or even across the border of Georgia are not likely coming over to Littlejohn for Monday-Thursday night games that are starting at 8 or 9 o'clock at night.
That is when the majority of games are being played at this point because of TV.
It seems to me that admin at Clemson understands the likelihood of Clemson basketball becoming an ACC power unless we start cheating, and so they are comfortable at this point letting Brownell do his thing and hoping his slightly improved recruiting will lead to a better product.
I'm not sure there is enough room for growth to make a change based on financial reasons.
If we change it needs to be because we want to win more, and not because we think it will generate more money for the athletic department.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [6879]
TigerPulse: 96%
41
|
its not that big of a hit, BB buyout is only $425,000
Feb 4, 2020, 10:16 AM
|
|
and less after 4/30/2020. I bet we would be able to buyout the whole staff for 1 million or less, which in todays athletic budgets for most major power 5 schools is a drop in the bucket
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ring of Honor [23707]
TigerPulse: 99%
53
Posts: 32381
Joined: 1998
|
That would take less than a year of increased attendance!
Feb 4, 2020, 10:22 AM
|
|
That kind of blows a hole in the "Brad Brownell is the best WE can do" argument.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Commissioner [1264]
TigerPulse: 100%
27
|
Re: That would take less than a year of increased attendance!
Feb 4, 2020, 10:32 AM
|
|
do you realize the "lower bowl" is sold out? not many people are gonna buy season tix in the upper arena, even for a "better product". could the % of folks who buy season tix AND actually go to games be better? certainly. but that problem is not unique to clemson.
do we all want CU basketball to do better? sure we do. but i would suggest your efforts would be better directed by contacting BB, drad, BOT, IPTAY board type folks than a message board. those guys are not that hard to find, and in my experience, are open to dialogue.
fans have every right to complain/question. just seems like very few if any people on this board have the ability to make a change. its good that you care, but why not direct your energy in a way that at least has a possibility to be effective?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ring of Honor [23707]
TigerPulse: 99%
53
Posts: 32381
Joined: 1998
|
That's a silly argument for a message board.
Feb 4, 2020, 10:36 AM
|
|
What is the point of a message board?
I emailed DRAD twice and expressed my frustration with the dying of the light that was Clemson basketball.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ultimate Clemson Legend [105576]
TigerPulse: 100%
64
Posts: 44178
Joined: 2008
|
Did you know that you and masked tiger both
Feb 4, 2020, 10:44 AM
|
|
joined the tnets on the same day? I'm guessing since you've been here since 1998 you already know that masked tiger is chronically unhappy and just wants to attack people who try to have discussions on an internet sports message board. It's why he hangs out in the tnet chat room all day.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [11478]
TigerPulse: 100%
46
|
Re: That would take less than a year of increased attendance!
Feb 4, 2020, 10:42 AM
[ in reply to That would take less than a year of increased attendance! ] |
|
I'm not sure that I agree with you about how quickly the money would be recovered.
My argument is against saying that we should fire him for financial reasons.
I'm not saying he should stay, but saying to fire him to make more money is misguided.
If we fire him, the goal should be to get somebody to win more games and not just to find a way to make more money.
The wins have to come first, not the making money.
Even an initial upgrade in attendance would die off if we don't start to win more games.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ring of Honor [23707]
TigerPulse: 99%
53
Posts: 32381
Joined: 1998
|
Perhaps if you read my posts again you would have
Feb 4, 2020, 1:13 PM
|
|
a better understanding of what I said. You've created a straw man to beat up on.
Obviously, the goal is to have a good basketball program. I was simply making the point that not only are we not particularly good over the last 11 years, but we are also leaving money on the table, which might appeal to administrators as an ADDITIONAL reason to get a good coach in here.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Campus Hero [13855]
TigerPulse: 100%
48
Posts: 23084
Joined: 2004
|
It's a very complex issue
Feb 4, 2020, 1:36 PM
|
|
How expensive is the new coach? Does he demand facility upgrades? Any established coach is likely to be both expensive and demand more of an investment into the basketball program. Do we go for an up-and-comer that's more financially palatable, but also a lot riskier? There's a fairly high likelihood that a new, young coach will be no better or even worse than Brad. If he does turn out to be really good does he stay for more than a few seasons? Probably not.
I agree that you invest the money to hopefully raise the stature of the program and win more games, not in an attempt to make more money. I just don't think the ROI in Clemson basketball is very good.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Tiger Titan [46607]
TigerPulse: 78%
58
Posts: 34848
Joined: 2003
|
I’m not sure why you think a facility upgrade or increase in coaching salary would be needed.
Feb 4, 2020, 10:16 PM
|
|
After all, based on what this message board continually says, our facilities are amazing and we pay our coach an insanely high salary.
To them, we can get pretty much any coach not named Krzyzewski, Williams, Few, or Self. And he should have no problem recruiting great basketball players to Clemson because our facilities are the best, we play in the ACC, and we have Dabo.
When you view it that way, it makes sense why they think Brownell is such a bad coach and recruiter, and why finishing in the middle of the ACC pack on average is so pathetic. Any dope with any semblance of salesmanship, personality, and basketball knowledge should be able to win at Clemson! It’s that simple!
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [11478]
TigerPulse: 100%
46
|
Re: its not that big of a hit, BB buyout is only $425,000
Feb 4, 2020, 10:40 AM
[ in reply to its not that big of a hit, BB buyout is only $425,000 ] |
|
You forgot the part about having to "buy in" a whole new staff as well.
That would cost us more money because if we want an upgrade then we are going to have to pay upgraded prices to get it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [6879]
TigerPulse: 96%
41
|
the only real "hit" is the increased head coach salary
Feb 4, 2020, 11:18 AM
|
|
I think the assistant increases would be very minor in comparison. Although Brad's assistants arent paid the best, I would imagine it is not drastically different than other staffs. I just looked up the top 10 paid assistants in college and it ranged from $375,000-$800,000. Our staff gets $225,000-$250,000 each. So hiring 3 guys and bumping all 3 of them to top 10 status, which I wouldnt anticipate, would only be a total of $420,000.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2467]
TigerPulse: 100%
32
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recruit [97]
TigerPulse: 93%
10
|
Re: Clemson is leaving millions on the table with Basketball
Feb 4, 2020, 12:38 PM
[ in reply to Re: Clemson is leaving millions on the table with Basketball ] |
|
"Then we would have to sign the next guy to a bigger contract than what Brownell has if we expect to get an upgrade in performance. " - LOLOL, oh wait...you're serious aren't you.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Campus Hero [13855]
TigerPulse: 100%
48
Posts: 23084
Joined: 2004
|
|
|
|
|
|
TigerNet Elite [73514]
TigerPulse: 100%
61
Posts: 117794
Joined: 1998
|
Re: Clemson is helping energy efficiency
Feb 4, 2020, 10:13 AM
|
|
with all the people who stay home and dont go to games saving gas
|
|
|
|
|
|
Freshman [-31]
TigerPulse: 65%
-1
|
Re: Clemson is leaving millions on the table with Basketball
Feb 4, 2020, 10:49 AM
|
|
This is a misinformed opinion. It is much easier said than done by the way. And when will people start realizing that this is one of the toughest jobs in the country. You are recruiting in the backyard of UNC and Duke and the facilities are just not at the same level as the rest of the conference. I'm not giving Brownell an out or an excuse but increasing attendance at games won't drive revenue up by millions either. We are talking about pennies on the dollar in the grand scheme of things with an attendance argument, I mean come on.
And you refer to "people who used to be big fans". At what point were they big fans? Back when our football team wasn't making national championship games? Back when the college basketball landscape was way different? Football is king at Clemson, always has been and always will be. Is that an excuse for having a mediocre basketball program? No, not necessarily. But you must understand the circumstances and the lack of history behind our basketball team. It's tough.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Scout Team [173]
TigerPulse: 97%
12
|
Re: Clemson is leaving millions on the table with Basketball
Feb 4, 2020, 11:24 AM
|
|
When any school looks at changing coaches, a big consideration is who is out there who is better? This has been posted earlier but Clemson is a hard job. Take for example, Zion would have been a huge addition but who can blame him for going to Duke. Sometimes change is good and it may be here but caution is needed to make sure the change is better for the long term. It is as hard for Coach B to recruit against Duke, UNC, Louisville, etc as it as for other ACC schools to recruit against Dabo in football. No easy answers for sure.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Guru [1698]
TigerPulse: 100%
31
|
recruiting is hard, in all of the major sports for the best
Feb 4, 2020, 1:23 PM
|
|
talent. but what the football team has proven is that it can be done. Cliff Ellis proved that it can be done, Bill Foster, Rick Barnes and Oliver Purnell all proved that it could be done to a degree but combined their recruiting with a plan of action for how to best use the assembled talent.
The three significant wins this year are great in a vacuum, but really, only the Duke win truly stands our because unc has completely fallen off the wagon and will not make ANY tournament this year, and, we have beaten Syracuse before when they were much better than the middle of the pack team they have assembled this year. It's is absolutely wonderful that this team has taken advantage of those opportunities, but have still maintained a par for the course existence with typical losses to VaTech, FSU, Wake, NC State, usuck, colorado and minnesota. My only goal is a consistent trip to the NCAA tournament but that has only been done twice in ten years including his first year with holdover players...
Who can we hire that's going to be better? I have no idea, but I do not think this program should wait another 5 or ten years to finally identify a coach that will maintain and grow the progress of the last three competent coaches; Brownell, Purnell and Barnes...
|
|
|
|
|
|
TigerNet Elite [73574]
TigerPulse: 100%
61
Posts: 78044
Joined: 1998
|
|
|
|
|
|
Clemson Icon [27619]
TigerPulse: 100%
54
Posts: 31980
Joined: 2003
|
Re: Clemson is leaving millions on the table with Basketball
Feb 4, 2020, 11:29 AM
[ in reply to Re: Clemson is leaving millions on the table with Basketball ] |
|
The secret is to someway encourage the students to come to the game and truly make their presence felt at the game. Clemson is just not going to attract out of town fans to drive to evening games on a weekday. Especially with the games being televised. I don’t know of another school that is that far removed from a major population area that is able to draw sellout crowds without students. I’m sure some of you can name schools that are able to pull this off but I can’t.
It’s ALL about the students. They HAVE to be given prime,courtside seats and really get into the game for the Tigers to Improve.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [6879]
TigerPulse: 96%
41
|
A point system tying all sports ticket priority together
Feb 4, 2020, 11:53 AM
|
|
Every time you claim a ticket and it is scanned proving attendance, you get points. Band members, cheerleaders, student staffers, etc will be awarded points as well since they are attending without a ticket. The more points you accumulate the more priority you get for all ticket distributions (football, bball, etc). When each class goes to claim tickets, people with most points in that class get first priority. To provide a chance for students with less points to improve tickets, distribute 75% of allotment to point priority and distribute the remaining 25% first come first serve. Start tying it to the way they qualify for football tickets and I bet you would see improvements.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Elite [5491]
TigerPulse: 89%
38
Posts: 11946
Joined: 2001
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ring of Honor [23707]
TigerPulse: 99%
53
Posts: 32381
Joined: 1998
|
|
|
|
|
|
Varsity [202]
TigerPulse: 95%
13
|
Re: Clemson is leaving millions on the table with Basketball
Feb 4, 2020, 11:43 AM
|
|
I would love to see Terrence Oglesby get a shot at being coach I think he would bring a lot of excitement and you wouldn't have to pay him that much. Well it worked for the football team .
|
|
|
|
|
|
Tiger Titan [46607]
TigerPulse: 78%
58
Posts: 34848
Joined: 2003
|
Seriously?***
Feb 4, 2020, 10:32 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Campus Hero [13855]
TigerPulse: 100%
48
Posts: 23084
Joined: 2004
|
Spending millions to possibly make millions***
Feb 4, 2020, 11:59 AM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hall of Famer [22127]
TigerPulse: 100%
53
|
Re: Clemson is leaving millions on the table with Basketball
Feb 4, 2020, 12:13 PM
|
|
Looking at the current top 25, there are a number of schools that are not considered powers in the football sector. The cost of a basketball program is much less than a football program. Gonzaga has been a basketball power for many years. Apparently, they are blessed with a good coaching staff and the ability to attract top talent. If Clemson were to hire the Gonzaga coach, would he be able to attract top talent or would the top talent continue to go to those schools who consistently have good programs?
Baylor currently sits atop the top 25 but is not a school one would consider as a long time basketball powerhouse. They have a relatively successfully football program. How did they almost suddenly reach the No. 1 spot? If Baylor can do it why not Clemson? And, to top that off, Baylor's women's basketball team is ranked No. 2.
|
|
|
|
|
|
National Champion [7665]
TigerPulse: 97%
42
|
Re: Clemson is leaving millions on the table with Basketball
Feb 4, 2020, 3:59 PM
|
|
Even though I agree with you Judge Keller ain’t going to like this......Go Tigers!!!!!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Replies: 33
| visibility 204
|
|
|
50
