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Replies: 26
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Dynasty Maker [3495]
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Rush Defenses during Goodwin
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Jan 7, 2025, 1:03 AM
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2022: 13th. 3.25 ypc. 102.71 ypg.
Ahead of Penn State, Tennessee, Ohio State, Oregon, Texas, Alabama, Notre Dame, Miami, LSU, Florida State, Oklahoma, and Ole Miss, for example.
2023: 24th. 3.76 ypc. 114.62 ypg.
Ahead of Notre Dame, Ohio State, Alabama, Oklahoma, FSU, LSU
2024: 85th. 4.71 ypc. 160.64 ypg.
Ahead of nobody significant.
So what happened exactly? Why did we drop off a cliff against the rush? All on Goodwin?
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Commissioner [1214]
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Re: Rush Defenses during Goodwin
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Jan 7, 2025, 1:48 AM
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I doubt it but wonder myself what the issue is.
Woods playing any snaps at DE is part of the puzzle. The fact that he did points some extreme liability at that position.
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Orange Blooded [2118]
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Re: Rush Defenses during Goodwin
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Jan 7, 2025, 9:15 AM
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Woods had to play there because our other ends maxed out at 240ish. This was the problem against the run. You saw Pwoo move out to edge during the TX game to try to slow that down and it worked mostly (barring the long run where Sammy was bear hugged in the hole). It’s a talent problem at defensive end. Love Denhoff’s effort but he’s not a major D1 starter (nor Hoffler or Lawson). The fact that you had scholarship juniors not play hardly at all tells you we had some recruiting/development issues. Think the portal dude helps and I’m a believer in Darien Mayo.
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Hall of Famer [8108]
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Re: Rush Defenses during Goodwin
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Jan 7, 2025, 1:55 AM
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Most of the Venables coached players cycled out.
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Dynasty Maker [3495]
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I dont think it was players as much as technique and want-to***
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Jan 7, 2025, 11:04 AM
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CU Guru [1521]
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Re: I dont think it was players as much as technique and want-to***
Jan 7, 2025, 12:34 PM
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It was more players.
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Paw Master [17409]
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The further we got from BV, the worse the D got...do the math***
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Jan 7, 2025, 2:29 AM
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Dynasty Maker [3495]
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Great analysis ! I didnt think of that ***
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Jan 7, 2025, 11:05 AM
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Ultimate Tiger [33378]
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every year we lost more players that joined to play for BV***
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Jan 7, 2025, 2:32 AM
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All-American [580]
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Re: Rush Defenses during Goodwin
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Jan 7, 2025, 2:51 AM
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No Tyler Davis clogging up the middle
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Game Day Hero [4120]
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Re: Rush Defenses during Goodwin
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Jan 7, 2025, 2:55 AM
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Not enough focus on the fundamentals which was a hallmark of BV's defenses. Wes is not a bad playcaller but it's clear he needs a little more time in the oven to learn some of the nuances of a defense.
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Top TigerNet [31898]
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If only
Jan 7, 2025, 7:42 AM
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Dabo had left Goodwin where he was strongest… And hired an actual defensive coordinator
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All-TigerNet [5871]
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That wasnt an option. Wes was gone if not promoted.***
Jan 7, 2025, 7:45 AM
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Head Coach [915]
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Re: That wasnt an option. Wes was gone if not promoted.***
Jan 7, 2025, 9:05 AM
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It is hard to imagine Pork Chop holding anyone's feet to the fire, in my opinion also what was wrong with the defense. Venables brought the fire and technique Wes brought the scheme.
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Dynasty Maker [3495]
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That doesnt explain the huge drop off this year though***
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Jan 7, 2025, 11:06 AM
[ in reply to If only ] |
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CU Medallion [20303]
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Fewer Jimmys and Joes***
Jan 7, 2025, 9:03 AM
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All-Pro [735]
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Re: Rush Defenses during Goodwin
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Jan 7, 2025, 9:05 AM
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That’s the question I’d like to know, too. I watch it too emotionally to do much analyzing during a game and I’m not one to rewatch games either. I’m also a casual fan at best, love the strategy but don’t have a super deep understanding, admittedly. But the single problem that seemed to persist and became glaring by the end of the season were the outside runs, particularly on the strong side if my memory serves. The DE consistently failed to set the edge and the LB would find themselves on the wrong side of the block to close the play. I think our transfer DE should help that in the future.
Venables move was always to overload the box and stop the run with sheer numbers (DE fails to set the edge, doesn’t matter safety help sets the edge and safety or LB finishes the play) and when the opponent decided to throw pray his blitzes would disrupt the play because the back end was undermanned. My gut tells me that Wes was afraid his blitzes couldn’t affect the play we played more on our heels to bolster the secondary.
Who knows really what the thought process was. Either way it fell apart this year. Hope some new blood can inspire this team.
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All-TigerNet [5774]
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Re: Rush Defenses during Goodwin
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Jan 7, 2025, 9:20 AM
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Good observations!
You're correct that:
* we failed to set the edge time after time.
* We took poor angles.
* We over-pursued.
Also:
* We failed to maintain gap integrity, resulting in failed arm tackles or whiffs.
* We often squatted just at the line-to-gain, waiting for the ball carrier to knock us over the line for a 1st down.
* We failed to wrap up on tackles.
* We tried to bump-tackle.
All-in-all, it was the result of very poor player discipline resulting from poor coaching.
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1st Rounder [655]
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Re: Rush Defenses during Goodwin
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Jan 7, 2025, 10:10 AM
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You’re spot on!! The type of defense needs to fit your personnel whether it’s a 3-4, 4-3,or a 4-2-5 hybrid.
However, as you said, technique and fundamentals have to be prioritized to be successful.
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All-TigerNet [5774]
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Re: Rush Defenses during Goodwin
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Jan 7, 2025, 11:21 AM
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Agree on fitting the D to the personnel personnel! Note my post in another thread:
Re: Nick Saban ran the 3-4 and 3-4 nickel
Jan 7, 2025, 9:08 AM [ in reply to Nick Saban ran the 3-4 and 3-4 nickel ]
Reply
In a 3-4 you don't have to use 4 LBs at the 2nd level. You can use a safety as the 4th LB, so you'd have a NT, 2 DEs (or DTs or 1 & 1), 3 LBs, 3 safeties and 2 CBs - or you could use a NT, 2 DEs (or DTs or 1 & 1), 3 LBs, 2 safeties and 3 CBs (particularly good against multiple good WRs).
3-4 is a very versatile defense which allows for a multitude of personnel variables.
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Dynasty Maker [3495]
TigerPulse: 92%
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Nothing irks me more than being there for the tackle but not using proper
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Jan 7, 2025, 11:03 AM
[ in reply to Re: Rush Defenses during Goodwin ] |
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technique. Time after time we saw missed tackles!
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All-In [10261]
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Re: Rush Defenses during Goodwin
Jan 7, 2025, 9:30 AM
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It does take a genius to look back and find that in 2021 we had 4 First Team All ACC players on defense compared to this year's 1. Blame is not the right word, but what has to happen is we have to get better players whether it be through high school recruits or the Portal.
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Dynasty Maker [3495]
TigerPulse: 92%
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We have players. Im talking about the huge drop off this year***
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Jan 7, 2025, 11:07 AM
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Top TigerNet [32257]
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Re: Rush Defenses during Goodwin
Jan 7, 2025, 9:34 AM
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Maybe, just maybe it had something to do with coaching......
Regardless, Dabo realized it was time for a change. And here, we, go.....
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Dynasty Maker [3495]
TigerPulse: 92%
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Again, we fell from 24th to 85th.
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Jan 7, 2025, 11:10 AM
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We’re all aware the coaching changed, but for the first two seasons it was working fine. Then this season it didn’t resemble anything like an even a Wes Goodwin defense. Defense has been our strongest side of the ball even during Wes’ first two years, then it fell off the cliff this year.
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Team Captain [488]
TigerPulse: 98%
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I'm no expert by any means but my theory is..
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Jan 7, 2025, 9:41 AM
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We replaced a 4-3 base featuring Trotter (Mike), Carter (Will), Woodaz (NS) with a Nickel base featuring Woodaz (Mike) for Trotter and Barnes (NB), and others, for Woodaz. If you look back at this season we were't nearly as bad when in a 4-3 base with Sammy Brown at Mike and Woodaz back at NS.
Is that all of it.... NO. Are DEs got bullied and our S consistently took poor angles not to mention the poor tackling. But... the LB coach/DC using a base Nickel while getting run on all day?
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Fan [37]
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Re: Rush Defenses during Goodwin
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Jan 7, 2025, 10:50 AM
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I think a tried and true teaching model, whether it is a parent teaching a son or daughter how to drive a car or a coach teaching a linebacker how to operate within a devised system, is coach explains, coach demonstrates, coach watches student demonstrate, and coach makes corrections through repetition. That's the way I remember it. Therein lies the problem. Beyond the theoretical explanation, I don't think Wes Goodwin could do much with this model. It truly is a shame we couldn't keep him on staff as an analyst (he's proved to be good in that role) and get a "Jimmy Green Beans" type of DC to go out on the field and do the other stuff to coach these players up...just saying that I think that is what we saw over the last couple of years.
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