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Top TigerNet [29812]
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I offer a discussion topic.
Apr 20, 2025, 4:05 PM
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No right or wrong answers. Just an opinion.
Question: Has the world, due to technology and communication and information technologies, become so complex that a representative form of government is no longer suitable for a country to have?
In todays' world the ability to learn of an international situation and the ability to respond to it almost instantaneously, is it no longer possible to effectivey have a system of government like the US (3 co-equal branches, system of checks and balances, bi-cameral legislature, etc.) to exist on a global scene?
Has the globe reached the point where an authoritarian (autocratic) form of government is necessary to be a world leading nation?
Curious to what y'all think. I have not reached a conclusion as yet.
Message was edited by: bretfsu®
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Clemson Icon [24515]
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Re: I offer a discussion topic.
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Apr 20, 2025, 4:46 PM
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Has the he globe reached the point where an authoritarian (autocratic) form of government is necessary to be a world leading nation?
Absolutely not. Its way for failure. It's way to put all of your eggs in one basket. It's constantly failed throughout history.
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TigerNet Champion [120815]
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Re: I offer a discussion topic.
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Apr 20, 2025, 4:52 PM
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Maybe we can stop electing mouth breathers like Tommy Tubbervile, Chuck Schumer and Marjoire Taylor green and put more scientists, doctors, engineers, etc.. into the house.
Otherwise, I am reading that you don't think democracy works in a rapidly advancing civilization, and I am saying it has to because the alternative is far worse. it is not even a question that should be asked.
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Associate AD [1079]
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Re: I offer a discussion topic.
Apr 20, 2025, 6:19 PM
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One of the worst representatives is an engineer: Thomas Massie. One of the worst senators is a physician, but he doesn't an academic degree: Rand Paul.
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National Champion [7617]
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Re: I offer a discussion topic.
Apr 20, 2025, 7:03 PM
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And the Ivy League schools give everyone A's these days so anyone with a degree from one of them is likely the beneficiary of grade inflation and a moron about anything other than whatever propaganda they've been fed while there. Pick your poison.
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Clemson Icon [24515]
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Re: I offer a discussion topic.
Apr 20, 2025, 7:13 PM
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Not everyone at those universities is a sociology major or whatever you seem to think. There are some brilliant people there doing amazing things, as much as your indoctrination on your end has warped you into thinking otherwise.
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Paw Warrior [4941]
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Clemson Icon [24515]
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Re: I offer a discussion topic.
Apr 20, 2025, 8:04 PM
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No she doesn't.
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Paw Warrior [4941]
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Re: I offer a discussion topic.
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Apr 20, 2025, 8:10 PM
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Oops sorry. I thought she went to Penn. It was Boston U. Still supposedly a top school.
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Top TigerNet [32691]
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Re: I offer a discussion topic.
Apr 20, 2025, 8:11 PM
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Trump went to Penn
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Paw Warrior [4941]
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Re: I offer a discussion topic.
Apr 20, 2025, 8:51 PM
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Dang I knew somebody went to Penn. lol.
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Clemson Icon [24515]
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Re: I offer a discussion topic.
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Apr 20, 2025, 8:13 PM
[ in reply to Re: I offer a discussion topic. ] |
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She is a good student. She is pretty smart. I just don't agree with her in everything. She seems smarter than Trump on the surface though. That's not saying anything, but she does.
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Ring of Honor [23659]
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Well for starters, she is not corrupt as heck.***
Apr 21, 2025, 9:05 AM
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Game Changer [1882]
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Paw Warrior [4941]
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Re: Did you ever attend college?***
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Apr 20, 2025, 9:17 PM
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Who?
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Tiger Titan [48487]
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Hahaha
Apr 21, 2025, 7:40 AM
[ in reply to Re: I offer a discussion topic. ] |
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You've said some dumb things here before, but this one takes the cake. No, they aren't.
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TigerNet Champion [120815]
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true, a number of bad congressmen are doctors.
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Apr 20, 2025, 9:33 PM
[ in reply to Re: I offer a discussion topic. ] |
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I am just staying we need more diversity in knowledge base in the congress, most of them have law degrees, and know little about tech and science. It is interesting to see someone like Green get in, but she offers nothing, she'd never worked a day in her life. I am not sure what Alabamians were thinking in that Tubberville would be qualified for the senate, I doubt he is capable of reading and understanding a Bill; certainly, more attorneys need to be in that chamber of the house. But as far as our state and federal representatives as a whole, it is a club, and bringing new ideas to the table will not win you a lot of campaign contributions.
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110%er [3878]
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Legend [6778]
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Re: I offer a discussion topic.
Apr 20, 2025, 5:39 PM
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I don't think I fully appreciate what you are getting at.
But to your point about technology and communication, and soon to be the proliferation of AI, the ability for the average person to find ground truth has been reduced dramatically.
Instead the person looking for truth is more likely to quickly find the 'truth' to be very near their already existing opinions and biases. Most people do not have the patience or skills to really get to the bottom of what they think they care about.
So, just like "walls don't work" and "defund the police" are clearly idiotic and irrational statements/ideas in their respective contexts, many millions repeated these 'truths' and believed them.
If the masses decide democracy will not work for X, Y, and Z reasons, then that will be their reality. It has happened before and will happen again.
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Orange Elite [5410]
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Your premise is definitely wrong, but it would be fair to say that society has
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Apr 20, 2025, 5:59 PM
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become too complex for conservative voters to actually comprehend how the world operates.
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Clemson Icon [24515]
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Re: Your premise is definitely wrong, but it would be fair to say that society has
Apr 20, 2025, 6:06 PM
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Maybe for many liberals as well.
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Orange Elite [5410]
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Maybe, but you don't see liberal voters falling for the same failed policies
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Apr 20, 2025, 7:26 PM
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that conservative voters are voting for so you can't make that comparison yet.
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Clemson Icon [24515]
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Re: Maybe, but you don't see liberal voters falling for the same failed policies
Apr 20, 2025, 7:31 PM
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I see the world often being complex for liberals and not understanding the nuances of the world and what we are facing when it comes to dealing with the extreme right. That's why we lose elections. I also see a lot of naiveness from liberals that doesn't fit into the harshness and realities of the world we live in. I will definitely take the liberal stances overall though and I think the world will be a better place generally. There are so many wacked out liberals too though that are out of touch with reality.
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110%er [3878]
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Re: Maybe, but you don't see liberal voters falling for the same failed policies
Apr 21, 2025, 8:58 AM
[ in reply to Maybe, but you don't see liberal voters falling for the same failed policies ] |
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You do understand the term liberal has lost all meaning in today’s political landscape? Maybe conservative has too. The Democrat party has been taken over by something that doesn’t even resemble liberalism. I’m sure many would say the same thing about conservatism and the Republican Party.
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Orange Elite [5410]
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Thats fair. The Democratic party has been overtaken by moderates
Apr 21, 2025, 9:01 AM
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So maybe they’re not as liberal as they should be…
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Campus Hero [13302]
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No. Authoritarian rule would only r e t a r d
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Apr 20, 2025, 6:35 PM
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America’s ability to lead and advance. You’re seeing it right in front of your eyes. The number of Anti science, anti education initiatives put in place by Trump has already whittled our way our ability to lead and the idiot hasn’t even been in office 100 days. What else is he gonna F up before the year is out? You can count on trump doing something stupid like you can count on the sun coming up. Trumps a particularly uneducated, ignorant example but it would t matter who you installed as king America, they would make our country worse.
With the evidence of the last two months, why would you even ask the question and have to ponder the answer? You’re a god fearing man, you know right from wrong, good from evil…don’t ask questions about it, live in a way you show it. Call out those who support wrongdoing and evil, break American laws, and won’t follow the rules of our nation even after they’ve been ruled against. Call out the liars. Don’t sacrifice your spiritual wellbeing by compromising your faith. Just don’t do it….and you will have your own answer to your question.
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Clemson Icon [24515]
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Re: No. Authoritarian rule would only r e t a r d
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Apr 20, 2025, 6:36 PM
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Well said.
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110%er [3619]
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110%er [3619]
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Ring of Honor [21569]
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Re: I offer a discussion topic.
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Apr 20, 2025, 8:01 PM
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I think America is not a democracy. Maybe it never was. But certainly since the Citizens United decision came down in 2011, legalizing dark money in politics, we became a system captured by moneyed interests...and worse, moneyed interests that do not even have to identify who they are.
The ironic but maybe not surprising part is, the very moneyed interests that ended up capturing our political system had also openly bought themselves a number of Supreme Court justices. Clarence Thomas doesn't even trouble himself to be subtle about it. Since justices are appointed for life and will not police themselves and are accountable to no one, it's the obvious fail point in our system, and once it failed, there was really no way back for us. The system at that point lost the ability to correct itself. Mind, it had been breaking down any number of ways even before that.
But I'd argue that democracy in its purest sense had become impossible anyway. The idea behind democracy is, a well-informed electorate will discuss things and come up with fairer and better solutions than any king or autocrat. Which is undeniably true, anywhere you see a king or autocrat, I'll show you corruption, oppression, and social stagnation. The problem is we no longer have an informed electorate. Not only is there far too much for any one human being to know because the human race has become so extraordinarily specialized, there's so much Dunning-Kruger going on most folks don't even know what they don't know. Even worse, our sources of information have become often hopelessly unreliable, owing to bad actors deliberately "flooding the zone with sh!t". (This was Steve Bannon's own term.)
Without access to good information, without an awareness that all humans cannot vote with equal wisdom on all things, and without accountable governance at every level and branch of government, a system is subject to capture...and ours has been duly captured for awhile now. It's why we keep having the same "elections" over and over, fighting over a handful of actual persuadable voters in a handful of battlefield states. And nobody is remotely happy with our system. The biggest problem is that we as an electorate allow the political parties to keep making us choose between hemlock and cyanide...and we refuse to just collectively vote No Confidence until we get more choices on the menu because the ones theyr'e giving us sukk.
So America, as presently constituted, is going to fail. The question is - what are we going to replace it with? A more polished democratic system, adjusted for the realities of 2025? A dictatorship? Or, as seems more likely to me, a collection of "network states" where government essentially becomes a Netflix-style subscription service consumers essentially opt in and out of the ones they don't like?
I myself don't know. I can see this going any number of ways. But I do think at some point those of us capable of talking honestly, intelligently, and in good faith are going to have to eject the sociopaths, psychopaths, narcissists, and a$$clowns that are being allowed to dominate our discourse right now (and "flooding the zone with sh!t"), and put our heads together Founding Fathers-style if we're going to have any chance of surviving what comes next.
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110%er [3619]
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You made some great points about our post-truth era
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Apr 20, 2025, 8:11 PM
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how we can reach an optimal consensus state when the data is distorted so badly from all angles that the average voter has no sense of reality. If it’s this easy to manipulate public opinion, then we will never have free and fair elections.
The best way forward is to demand better and less corrupted information that allows us to agree on base reality.
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Clemson Icon [24515]
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Re: You made some great points about our post-truth era
Apr 20, 2025, 8:17 PM
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Perceived honesty will be a key moving forward.
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Ring of Honor [21569]
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Re: You made some great points about our post-truth era
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Apr 20, 2025, 8:20 PM
[ in reply to You made some great points about our post-truth era ] |
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Without good information we have no chance.
We actually do have access to more good information than we've ever had at any point in history. The problem is there's such an immense volume of pure crap in the way we have to wade through an ocean of BS to answer anything.
The whole idea of the Internet was that smart, like-minded people could reach out and share knowledge and converse with anyone else all across the world. It's done that. What we didn't realize is that it was also going to connect us all to any number of people we didn't want in our lives and heads and especially our information space.
We desperately need better filters. Any solution we come up with has to start there.
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Ultimate Tiger [38761]
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Re: You made some great points about our post-truth era
Apr 20, 2025, 9:14 PM
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The solution is really simple, take away the internet. Make people go to a library if they want to use it, and let the military keep it. The human race survived just fine without it, and we obviously can’t be trusted with it.
Take away the internet and cable news, and partisanship recedes. People go back to being invested in their communities and neighborhoods, and care less about something that happened across the country that doesn’t affect them. Set up barriers to voting, educational attainment, social contribution. The willfully ignorant and lazy don’t deserve a voice in public affairs, the way it is now they’re the only voices you hear. Government should be boring and technocratic, not a replacement for WWE and soap operas.
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TigerNet Champion [120815]
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Re: You made some great points about our post-truth era
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Apr 20, 2025, 9:41 PM
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People will still sit at home playing video games, jerking off, and watching Netflix. I remember riding my bike for miles with my friends until it got dark, Public pools, Cub scouts, summer camp, etc. these institutions left us a while ago. You could take away the internet, but probably not the 40 years of conditioning that came along with it. I can't remember the last time I saw a kid on a bike, they all have E-scooters and can't button their own pants.
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Tiger Titan [48487]
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Re: You made some great points about our post-truth era
Apr 21, 2025, 7:46 AM
[ in reply to Re: You made some great points about our post-truth era ] |
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Take away the internet and cable news, and partisanship recedes. People go back to being invested in their communities and neighborhoods, and care less about something that happened across the country that doesn’t affect them. Set up barriers to voting, educational attainment, social contribution. The willfully ignorant and lazy don’t deserve a voice in public affairs, the way it is now they’re the only voices you hear. Government should be boring and technocratic, not a replacement for WWE and soap operas.
There was plenty of division, hatred, inequality, and injustice before the Internet; one could argue the Internet helped eliminate a lot of it. It certainly made it harder for people to suppress voices.
The 1950s and 1960s weren't proud times in American history.
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Ultimate Tiger [38761]
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Re: You made some great points about our post-truth era
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Apr 21, 2025, 8:16 AM
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Evil predates the internet, but it sure was harder for them to find each other
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Top TigerNet [32691]
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Re: You made some great points about our post-truth era
Apr 21, 2025, 8:32 AM
[ in reply to Re: You made some great points about our post-truth era ] |
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I do think the Internet is a double edged sword.
But, the idea that we were somehow not politically divided, is not an accurate representation in history. Political battles would occasionally end in duels. A house senator was beaten senseless in the Senate chamber by another Senator from SC in the mid 1850s. I would say it was pretty heated stuff
There was plenty to be proud about in this country in the 50s and 60s.
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Top TigerNet [29812]
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Thanks for all the responses. Here is why I posted the topic.
Apr 21, 2025, 7:26 AM
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I posted this question on this board and on another one. The overwhelming consensus was "No! Autocratic systems are worse than what we have now."
The reason I asked was it is appearing to me that most people are flocking to a strong, authoritarian president. Barack Obama was loved by the left. They were upset when congress would not be a rubber stamp for him. There were calls for those opposed to him "compromise" which is code for "agree with whatever he wants." Now, we see the same thing to an even further degree with Trump.
The world is getting more and more dangerous. We have millions of people in the country illegally, no telling how many thousands are here for the expressed purpose of doing America harm. We don't have time for congress to enact legislation. We can't sit around arguing legal matters up through the courts. There is an "emergency" and the POTUS has the authority to act unilaterally, without congress and without approval by the courts.
That seems to be the opinion of most of the people who are referred to as "MAGA Republicans."
While we say, "We don't want a dictator. We don't want another Stalin or Hitler or Putin or Xi." But, our actions - on both sides of the political spectrum - seem to say, "We need a benevolent dictator. "Benevolent" meaning 'one who agrees with me'."
From the response on both boards, it appears that either I am wrong in thinking more and more people are looking for a strong authoritarian form of government, or at the very least, they are not willing to admit they want a strong authoritarian form of government.
Thanks for all the responses.
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Clemson Icon [24515]
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Re: Thanks for all the responses. Here is why I posted the topic.
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Apr 21, 2025, 7:35 AM
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I consider Obama an authoritarian and he surrounded himself with qualified people and worked with other around the globe. Obama was just a natural leader and far from an authoritarian.
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Clemson Icon [24515]
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Re: Thanks for all the responses. Here is why I posted the topic.
Apr 21, 2025, 7:35 AM
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That should say. I DO NOT consider Obama an authoritarian.
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Orange Elite [5410]
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Clemson Icon [24515]
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Re: Obama was as moderate as they come
Apr 21, 2025, 8:47 AM
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True
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Tiger Titan [48487]
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Re: I offer a discussion topic.
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Apr 21, 2025, 7:54 AM
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A varied concept of this has been embraced by corporate authoritarians--Elon Musk is one of them--who believe democracies should give way to corporate dictatorships given their technological advancements. That's a pretty terrible idea when you see who supports it and wants to be in charge.
The U.S. democratic system has endured a lot of tests and still remained as a guiding light for other nations. We'll see if it survives this current attempt to turn it into a dictatorship. If it can make it out of Trump and find a way to stop him, then I think you have your answer.
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Top TigerNet [29812]
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In my old age, I'm getting cynical.
Apr 21, 2025, 8:31 AM
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People never consider the person they support as an authoritarian, much less a dictator.
Those who supported Obama do not consider him a "dictator wanna be." Those who opposed him did.
Same with Trump. His supporters do not consider him a "dictator wanna be." Those who oppose him certianly do.
This is the thinking I see becoming more and more common: If the president is acting in the best interest of the country (doing things I agree with) then congress and the courts should get out of his way and let him act. If they won't, then he should just ignore them and do it anyway.
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Clemson Icon [24515]
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Re: In my old age, I'm getting cynical.
Apr 21, 2025, 8:34 AM
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I think Trump's supporters see him as an authoritarian dictator type and they support it.
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Tiger Titan [48487]
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Re: In my old age, I'm getting cynical.
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Apr 21, 2025, 8:42 AM
[ in reply to In my old age, I'm getting cynical. ] |
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It's very clear Trump is attempting to become an autocrat and defy democracy. He's not like the others before him.
And I did not support Obama, but I never thought he wanted to be a dictator. I did think he was a mediocre president at best.
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Orange Elite [5410]
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The real irony is that Obama was ineffective
Apr 21, 2025, 8:46 AM
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Because he spent so much time trying to build support from across the aisle that never came.
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Dynasty Maker [3234]
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Re: In my old age, I'm getting cynical.
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Apr 21, 2025, 7:24 PM
[ in reply to In my old age, I'm getting cynical. ] |
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>>People never consider the person they support as an authoritarian, much less a dictator.
Those who supported Obama do not consider him a "dictator wanna be." Those who opposed him did.
Same with Trump. His supporters do not consider him a "dictator wanna be." Those who oppose him certianly do.
I voted Libertarian in 2008 and Romney in 2012. I'm not and was never an Obama "supporter". But the idea that he was a "dictator wanna be" is just laughable. He was not even slightly a dictator wannabe. I never voted for Clinton either, but he was not a "dictator wanna be".
Trump is in a class by himself on the dictator-wannabe-meter.
All presidents push their limits & do a little over-reach. But there are many places that Trump is going and his gone that makes him non-comparable to presidents before him.
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Orange Elite [5220]
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Re: I offer a discussion topic.
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Apr 21, 2025, 8:29 AM
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Planting the seed. 😆
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Clemson Icon [24515]
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Re: I offer a discussion topic.
Apr 21, 2025, 8:35 AM
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Exactly. Already justifying it.
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CU Medallion [20840]
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This post suffers from a terrible case of recency bias.
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Apr 21, 2025, 11:10 AM
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Monumental technological and communication advances go back centuries. The Guttenberg press allowed the other 99% of humanity access to written language and new knowledge. Faster ships, steam power, rail, the telegraph, automobiles, radio, TV, atomic power, digital technology - our representational democracy has not only withstood these advances, we've largely led them and emerged even more powerful and stronger following due to the very trait you now question. Every 20 years the 'coming generation' is doomed to fail, yet here we've only grown stronger. For the dystopian hellscape that many have been sold on these past eight years - heading into Jan 20 we were still kicking global ###. The American way was looking at the man in the mirror if you weren't getting what you wanted out of life, not trashing our unbelievably successful self-governing constitutional republic, regardless of the day and age.
On the other hand, we've witnessed every single authoritarian regime that has played on these fears you share here, that has tried to utilize technological advances of the day to stymie individual thoughts and deeds and seize control over the masses, fail miserably. And not just fail but wreak devastating havoc far beyond its borders in the process, leaving not only its own in far worse shape than ever before but those of its neighbors.
This is hogwash thinking and represents the worse form of losing or not getting what you want - simply quitting. Is it perfect? No. There's no such thing. The founding fathers understood this in striving to 'create a more perfect union'. Don't let the current administration's incapacity to lead within the confines of our framework convince you that it is the framework that is broken. It's not. It's the man in the mirror.
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Top TigerNet [29812]
TigerPulse: 100%
55
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I'm not sure we disagree.
1
Apr 22, 2025, 4:59 PM
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I was just asking the question for my personal edification. Just wondering what others are thinking.
The post was certainly not based on my support or lack thereof of either Trump or Harris/Biden. I have voted in every election, and primary, that I have been eligible to vote in since 1969 (when I was eligible). 2024 was the first time I have ever left my choice for POTUS blank.
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Dynasty Maker [3234]
TigerPulse: 96%
34
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I offer some answers....
1
Apr 21, 2025, 5:19 PM
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>>Question: Has the world, due to technology and communication and information technologies, become so complex that a representative form of government is no longer suitable for a country to have?
I hope you're joking here, but I fear you're not. The countries with the most dynamic economies, the places where there's opportunity, and where societies are the most free....these are places with some form of Democracy and where human rights are an actual thing. The US that Trump inherited in 2017 and again in 2025 is a world leader on many fronts....We're not perfect. But our government has not impeded our ability to be the best place in the world to do business, and the most innovative, and dynamic place.
>>Has the globe reached the point where an authoritarian (autocratic) form of government is necessary to be a world leading nation?
No, the globe has not reached that point, unless you think the EU and/or the US are bottom feeders instead of world-leaders, and unless you think Russia, Iran, and NK are great places.
What typically happens with autocratic systems is that the country loses out on freedoms, and they also lose on prosperity. This is because the autocrat replaces science, universities, media, art, and government agencies with loyalists who parrot what he/she thinks. Institutions are crushed. And when that happens, societies regress, and become a place to escape rather than a destination to enter.
And I'm make one more comment: If the US contines down the current path, even political boards like this one will no longer be safe places to have discussions. People will self-censor, and eventually the autocrat's party will do the rest for those that won't bend the knee.
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Top TigerNet [29812]
TigerPulse: 100%
55
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I think we agree. I'm not saying...
Apr 22, 2025, 5:04 PM
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.... that the push toward an authoritarian form of government is a good thing. I just see more and more countries (including America) heading down that path. I asked the question because I was wondering what others think.
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