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Rival Killer [3079]
TigerPulse: 82%
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Solid, but tough decision to bring brownell back next year
Mar 16, 2022, 2:22 PM
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Neff needs to sit with brownell and lay out expectations for next year. We need to make some noise or he should be fired.
The goal next year is to win a couple games in the NCAA's or ACC tourney. I would say 3 wins between these 2 tournaments would be pretty solid. If brownell can't do that, he needs to go.
I've been hearing some good things on hunter Tyson returning. Not necessarily from an insider, but from somebody that has connections. I expect an announcement that Tyson will come back shortly after the Brad brownell announcement. If he returns that would be huge for us.
A starting lineup as follows would have size and be pretty #### good. We also have a lot of depth behind them.
PG: Dawes
SG: Hunter
SF: Tyson
PF: Schef
C: Hall
That lineup has size and everyone can shoot. We also would have the flexibility to go smaller with a lineup like this
PG: Dawes
SG: Hunter
SF: one of the freshman/transfer
PF: Tyson
C: Hall
I really like the flexibility of our lineup. If we can shore up our defense, this is an ncaa tourney team.
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Tiger Spirit [9890]
TigerPulse: 71%
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Wait. Aren’t those the players we already had this year?***
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Mar 16, 2022, 2:25 PM
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Orange Immortal [66345]
TigerPulse: 100%
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just let the lunatic fringe Brad cult have their happy dance
Mar 16, 2022, 2:33 PM
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none of this has to make any sense, just keeping Brad. that’s the only thing that matters, if you are Brad, Mrs. Brad, or one of Brad’s many assistants’ scoks on here.
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Rival Killer [3079]
TigerPulse: 82%
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Re: just let the lunatic fringe Brad cult have their happy dance
Mar 16, 2022, 2:43 PM
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Glad to know you think our AD is a lunatic.
It's not crazy to acknowledge brownell's struggles while also seeing the fact we have some pieces returning.
You are the one that's being a a lunatic.
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Orange Phenom [14579]
TigerPulse: 90%
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Re: just let the lunatic fringe Brad cult have their happy dance
Mar 16, 2022, 2:48 PM
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Glad to know you think our AD is a lunatic.
It's not crazy to acknowledge brownell's struggles while also seeing the fact we have some pieces returning.
You are the one that's being a a lunatic.
You also said that Brad Brownell has to not only get to a NCAAT next season, but win at least a game...
lol. Clemson will never let go of a coach that gets to a NCAAT regardless if wins a game or not, unless cheating is involved.
Might want to to change the must see goals next season.
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Tiger Spirit [9890]
TigerPulse: 71%
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Brad said himself this season
1
Mar 16, 2022, 3:16 PM
[ in reply to Re: just let the lunatic fringe Brad cult have their happy dance ] |
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that he just needs to recruit better.
So what do these “pieces returning” matter?
Okay they’ll be a year older.
But their “coach” has pretty much already said they don’t have what it takes.
And I’m not knocking our players. Brad did.
I happen to think a real coach could come in next year and win with those guys.
But not a loser who has already written them off.
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Orange Immortal [66345]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: just let the lunatic fringe Brad cult have their happy dance
Mar 17, 2022, 1:07 AM
[ in reply to Re: just let the lunatic fringe Brad cult have their happy dance ] |
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No offense, but you are quite stupid.
It would be crazy to think Neff is doing a happy dance over Brad’s incredible results. So I wouldn’t put him in the same category as you guys. Since it sounds like he’s letting Brad come back, it’s obvious he’s just being pragmatic given that basketball isn’t taken seriously at Clemson.
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All-In [10539]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: just let the lunatic fringe Brad cult have their happy dance
Mar 17, 2022, 8:33 AM
[ in reply to Re: just let the lunatic fringe Brad cult have their happy dance ] |
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Why do competitive teams fire a mediocre coach after 3-4 seasons and we are stuck with one until he retires, gets a better job or gets in trouble.
Yes, I saw many positives this year and hopefully they make it to the sweet 16 next year, but if they do not are you willing to say enough is enough? Time for a restart?
Do you see unc, or Georgia keeping an annual, middle of the road coach in any sport? Or anyone. We endure this much longer and no one will ever want to coach basketball here because the fans don't care and the administration doesn't care about winning. Heck,
VA Tech just won the conference.
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Orange Immortal [60388]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 2019
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Re: Solid, but tough decision to bring brownell back next year
Mar 16, 2022, 2:26 PM
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They will have a pretty good team next year, but can CBB coach them to the wins? That is always the question.
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Rival Killer [3079]
TigerPulse: 82%
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Re: Solid, but tough decision to bring brownell back next year
Mar 16, 2022, 2:44 PM
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Considering Brad brownell's on court results are typically better than our recruiting rankings, I think it's fair to say that brownell can coach them up.
Our struggles have not been a coaching problem, but a recruiting problem.
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Game Day Hero [4475]
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Re: Solid, but tough decision to bring brownell back next year
Mar 16, 2022, 2:54 PM
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How many players are allowed on the court?
Seems you might want to tell Brad to work on that along with the other coaching issues we saw this year.
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TigerNet Legend [147957]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Orange Phenom [14579]
TigerPulse: 90%
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Re: Solid, but tough decision to bring brownell back next year
Mar 16, 2022, 3:15 PM
[ in reply to Re: Solid, but tough decision to bring brownell back next year ] |
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Considering Brad brownell's on court results are typically better than our recruiting rankings, I think it's fair to say that brownell can coach them up.
Our struggles have not been a coaching problem, but a recruiting problem.
Has 4 star Dawes improved since he has been at Clemson? that would be no.
How about Landry Nnoko who maxed out as a sophomore.
Brad usually has one or two players that improve a lot at a given time through the course of their career. the only exception was the core players from the sweet sixteen season.
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Clemson Icon [24058]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 1998
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CU Medallion [19495]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 2009
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Um, uh, yeah. About those recruiting rankings and Coach B
Mar 16, 2022, 4:24 PM
[ in reply to Re: Solid, but tough decision to bring brownell back next year ] |
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overperforming there...
2018 thru 2021 four-year class average was 43.5, which isn't bad, not bad at all.
Our Net ranking this season is 84, and RPI 130.
You have a wild way with the maffs, friend.
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Orange Blooded [2117]
TigerPulse: 95%
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All-In [10539]
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Re: Solid, but tough decision to bring brownell back next year
Mar 17, 2022, 8:40 AM
[ in reply to Re: Solid, but tough decision to bring brownell back next year ] |
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When solid programs have that problem, they get rid of it.
We seen too many schools known as football schools become competitive in basketball. Just look at the SEC's overall improvement in basketball.. A football conference winning at basketball.
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Game Day Hero [4423]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Orange Beast [6338]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Solid, but tough decision to bring brownell back next year
Mar 16, 2022, 2:29 PM
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We need a new chef in the kitchen.
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Orange Immortal [66345]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Posts: 42132
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LOL.***
Mar 16, 2022, 2:32 PM
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Orange Immortal [62601]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Based on what, pray tell?***
Mar 16, 2022, 2:40 PM
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Rival Killer [3079]
TigerPulse: 82%
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Re: Based on what, pray tell?***
Mar 16, 2022, 2:53 PM
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Huh?? Are you on record saying we will not be a tourney team next year?
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Orange Immortal [62601]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 2000
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I'm on record saying that while it's possible, no rational,
Mar 16, 2022, 3:15 PM
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clear-minded person who is not under the influence of psychedelic drugs would expect us to be.
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Rival Killer [3079]
TigerPulse: 82%
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Re: I'm on record saying that while it's possible, no rational,
Mar 16, 2022, 3:31 PM
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clear-minded person who is not under the influence of psychedelic drugs would expect us to be.
Interesting. You've always been a pretty respectful person and I usually try to give the same respect to somebody that they give out.
That said, #### you.
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Orange Immortal [62601]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 2000
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That's cool. I'm just going off of his 12 year body of work,
Mar 16, 2022, 4:58 PM
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and the most current trajectory of the program, both of which suggest we won't be going to the NCAA tournament next year. It boggles my mind how anyone who is being honest and objective could think otherwise.
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CU Medallion [19495]
TigerPulse: 100%
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I fully expect next year's team to reach the NCAA's.
Mar 16, 2022, 4:42 PM
[ in reply to I'm on record saying that while it's possible, no rational, ] |
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Solid roster as it stands today, and Brad's MO is to get just enough out of the team when his job is on the line to keep the meter running. Keeping him now is pretty much guaranteeing two more years of this.
The OP is correct in laying out what post-season expectations 'should' be to keep him another year after next season. But we all know simply qualifying will do the trick regardless.
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Orange Immortal [62601]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Solid roster? You mean the one that finished TENTH this
Mar 16, 2022, 5:19 PM
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year? Please explain how that's a solid roster that should make the tournament. We are just delaying the inevitable.
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Game Changer [2008]
TigerPulse: 80%
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I just wish Clemson Mountaineers would bring back
Mar 16, 2022, 2:40 PM
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Judge Keller because we all know you are one in the same.
Brad needs to go NOW, he has proven for the better part of 12 years that he can't get the job done here. Assuming all those players will return is a bit of a stretch too, as we all know 2-3 players will bolt from the program.
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. Apparently Clemson hasn't learned their lesson yet in regards to this for the Men's Basketball program.
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Hall of Famer [8772]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: I just wish Clemson Mountaineers would bring back
Mar 16, 2022, 3:53 PM
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Get a pulse ....
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Game Changer [2008]
TigerPulse: 80%
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I don’t care about my pulse, but
Mar 16, 2022, 5:13 PM
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it’s also tough to bring ot up when tools like you downvote people who have valid arguments based solely on their pulse. You’re a sad individual!!!
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Letterman [263]
TigerPulse: 93%
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Re: I just wish Clemson Mountaineers would bring back
Mar 16, 2022, 4:27 PM
[ in reply to I just wish Clemson Mountaineers would bring back ] |
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Exactly. I guess our MBB program slogan is mediocrity is the standard. Every decade you need a refresh and reset if mediocrity exists.
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Orange Beast [6338]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: I just wish Clemson Mountaineers would bring back
Mar 16, 2022, 6:48 PM
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You are wrong. We are sub mediocre. Mediocre implies average. We aren’t average.
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Orange Phenom [14579]
TigerPulse: 90%
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Joined: 2004
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Re: Solid, but tough decision to bring brownell back next year
Mar 16, 2022, 2:43 PM
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Neff needs to sit with brownell and lay out expectations for next year. We need to make some noise or he should be fired.
The goal next year is to win a couple games in the NCAA's or ACC tourney. I would say 3 wins between these 2 tournaments would be pretty solid. If brownell can't do that, he needs to go.
I've been hearing some good things on hunter Tyson returning. Not necessarily from an insider, but from somebody that has connections. I expect an announcement that Tyson will come back shortly after the Brad brownell announcement. If he returns that would be huge for us.
A starting lineup as follows would have size and be pretty #### good. We also have a lot of depth behind them.
PG: Dawes
SG: Hunter
SF: Tyson
PF: Schef
C: Hall
That lineup has size and everyone can shoot. We also would have the flexibility to go smaller with a lineup like this
PG: Dawes
SG: Hunter
SF: one of the freshman/transfer
PF: Tyson
C: Hall
I really like the flexibility of our lineup. If we can shore up our defense, this is an ncaa tourney team.
And what kind of Basketball IQ are getting from Dawes or Honor? Still think that is the weakness from this team as far as PG or lead guards who are consistent.
would you rather have these guys or McIntyre,Hammonds, Stitt, a healthy Mitchell, or even a Rod Hall?
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Rival Killer [3079]
TigerPulse: 82%
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Re: Solid, but tough decision to bring brownell back next year
Mar 16, 2022, 2:49 PM
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Well I haven't seen the senior version of Dawes so I couldn't tell you.
I would probably take Dawes over rod hall and he would be a push with stitt and Shelton Mitchell.
I would rather have hammonds or McIntyre over Dawes.
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Orange Phenom [14579]
TigerPulse: 90%
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Re: Solid, but tough decision to bring brownell back next year
Mar 16, 2022, 3:19 PM
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Well I haven't seen the senior version of Dawes so I couldn't tell you.
I would probably take Dawes over rod hall and he would be a push with stitt and Shelton Mitchell.
I would rather have hammonds or McIntyre over Dawes.
lol. are you kidding? He made critical big shots as a freshman and a few as a sophomore. his defense got worse too, Did you see the last play of the season? totally regressed...
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Rival Killer [3079]
TigerPulse: 82%
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Re: Solid, but tough decision to bring brownell back next year
Mar 16, 2022, 3:46 PM
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I typically don't judge a basketball players body of work off of 1 play in 1 game.
But since you mentioned it.
Dawes vs. rod hall: Dawes averaged more points, rebounds, steals, better ft%, and 3pt %, and committed less turnovers during each jog their junior seasons. Oh and he played 4 less minutes
Dawes vs. Shelton Mitchell: this one is real close, but I give the slight edge to Mitchell despite playing on a better team. He averaged 4 more minutes per game but he was a better assist man than dawes. Let's hope Dawes progresses next year instead of regress like Mitchell did because of injury
Dawes vs. demontez stitt: after looking more into this i would give it to stitt. Again it's hard to compare because he was also on a good team, and Dawes was not on a good team this year. I didn't realize how well shot the 3 ball his junior year at nearly 40%.
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Orange Phenom [14579]
TigerPulse: 90%
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Joined: 2004
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Re: Solid, but tough decision to bring brownell back next year
Mar 16, 2022, 3:49 PM
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came to your senses. All of those guys played a lot better defense than Dawes. Stitt is the only player to start all 4 years at PG and go to 4 NCAATs.
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Rival Killer [3079]
TigerPulse: 82%
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Re: Solid, but tough decision to bring brownell back next year
Mar 16, 2022, 4:12 PM
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Sure. They performed slightly better than Dawes in their junior season. I wool say that I think Dawes has more potential than all of those players.
I really think the addition of honor to the team hampered his progression. Let's hope for a big senior year.
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Game Changer [1855]
TigerPulse: 96%
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Re: Solid, but tough decision to bring brownell back next year
Mar 16, 2022, 4:34 PM
[ in reply to Re: Solid, but tough decision to bring brownell back next year ] |
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That has definitely been a major problem.
I'm a little higher on Dawes. I think he's generally pretty good at creating his own shots. He is a good individual ball handler that can break pressure individually. He also generally knocks down free throws. Where I think he struggles is obviously defensively and creating shots for other guys.
I think I'd rather have them over Rod Hall. Probably Dawes over Mitchell too. I know Mitchell's knees are going to go out his senior year and he only had 3 years total.
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Game Day Hero [4423]
TigerPulse: 100%
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brownell hasn't been able to do that in 12 years
Mar 16, 2022, 2:44 PM
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Next Year will be more of the same Shyatt!
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Tiger Spirit [9289]
TigerPulse: 94%
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Yeah, "if this" and "if that" - just more thinking about....
Mar 16, 2022, 2:51 PM
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what we could/should do under Brownell only to see it never happen.
It's time to cut the cord with this guy. I'm tired of yet-another coach who failed to get our program to produce successfully and consistently.
Quit thinking that just "one more year" will make a positive, real difference.
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Game Day Hero [4475]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Solid, but tough decision to bring brownell back next year
Mar 16, 2022, 2:52 PM
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The team always has 2 or 3 players transfer out.
Some of these are players we thought had potential or would add depth.
Why would this year be any different?
Given we were a .500 team overall, if we bring the same players back why would next season be any different?
I'd like to say that player development will mean the team is better overall, but our guards especially never seem to improve season to season under Brownell.
At one point early in his tenure at Clemson I'd have said he developed some big men, but I wouldn't say that's true anymore.
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Rival Killer [3079]
TigerPulse: 82%
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Re: Solid, but tough decision to bring brownell back next year
Mar 16, 2022, 2:55 PM
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Yes, every year we have transfers as does every team.
If you look at who all is transferring, they aren't players that contribute. The only player that has transferred under brownell that could have been a key contributor in the future is prosper. Other than him, brownell has replaced his transfers with transfers that were better.
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Orange Phenom [14579]
TigerPulse: 90%
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Re: Solid, but tough decision to bring brownell back next year
Mar 16, 2022, 3:21 PM
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yeah, there will a one or two big transfers that leave if things are status quo. would not be surprised if one of the guards like Dawes or Honor, or even Breadle even though he did not play this season.
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Rival Killer [3079]
TigerPulse: 82%
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Re: Solid, but tough decision to bring brownell back next year
Mar 16, 2022, 4:54 PM
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yeah, there will a one or two big transfers that leave if things are status quo. would not be surprised if one of the guards like Dawes or Honor, or even Breadle even though he did not play this season.
I can see 1 of those 3 transferring. I honestly expected either honor or Dawes to transfer last year.
I'm not worried, because Brad will get somebody as good or better. He always does.
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Game Changer [1855]
TigerPulse: 96%
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Re: Solid, but tough decision to bring brownell back next year
Mar 16, 2022, 4:43 PM
[ in reply to Re: Solid, but tough decision to bring brownell back next year ] |
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I would disagree. I think a big guard like Trapp would have help us out significantly this year. You could make the same case for a motivated Newman. We also had an open scholarship. You can have your cake and eat it too, once.
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Clemson Icon [24058]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 1998
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Our success next year will depend on the transfer he brings
Mar 16, 2022, 3:04 PM
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in. With the existing makeup of the team, I don't see improvement. Without David Collins and Naz Bohannon and their 16 pts/game and experience we will take a step back.
If he can bring in a couple of players who can duplicate the efforts of those two, we may be slightly better overall. Still see an NIT bid, at best, from this team next year, with a possibility that we are even worse than this year.
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Orange Phenom [14579]
TigerPulse: 90%
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Re: Our success next year will depend on the transfer he brings
Mar 16, 2022, 3:22 PM
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in. With the existing makeup of the team, I don't see improvement. Without David Collins and Naz Bohannon and their 16 pts/game and experience we will take a step back.
If he can bring in a couple of players who can duplicate the efforts of those two, we may be slightly better overall. Still see an NIT bid, at best, from this team next year, with a possibility that we are even worse than this year.
The thing is unless someone transfers only have room for one spot, and that is if Tyson doesn't come back.
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Clemson Icon [24058]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 1998
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Maybe that is why Brad was hemming and hawing when asked
Mar 16, 2022, 3:27 PM
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about Tyson returning. He never said, "we want him to come back and there is a spot if he wants it."
Are there some walk-ons he awarded scholarships to?
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Orange Phenom [14579]
TigerPulse: 90%
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Joined: 2004
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Re: Maybe that is why Brad was hemming and hawing when asked
Mar 16, 2022, 3:33 PM
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about Tyson returning. He never said, "we want him to come back and there is a spot if he wants it."
Are there some walk-ons he awarded scholarships to?
true he did not. Paker Fox was awarded a scholarship as a walk on but was a senior. As of right now, only have one spot available for next season.
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Paw Master [17512]
TigerPulse: 100%
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This would be great and all but you were insistent that we
Mar 16, 2022, 3:17 PM
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we’re going to be markedly improved this year too.
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Hall of Famer [8772]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Solid, but tough decision to bring brownell back next year
Mar 16, 2022, 3:50 PM
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I think the expectation should be to make the NCAA tournament. I think our every year expectation should be to at least make the NIT. But that doesn't mean the coach gets fired if we miss the tournament in any one year. We should make it more often than we stay home.
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Starter [293]
TigerPulse: 85%
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Re: Solid, but tough decision to bring brownell back next year
Mar 17, 2022, 8:07 AM
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Based on what, though? If that's the direction the AD and BOT goes, they have to be willing to figure out what sort of support is needed. If it's a new coach, so be it, but we can't have set expectations on hopes and wishes and be disappointed when it doesn't come to fruition.
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Legend [6827]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Solid, but tough decision to bring brownell back next year
Mar 17, 2022, 1:45 AM
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Except sit Dawes or get him on Prozac to even out the ups and downs.
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Starter [293]
TigerPulse: 85%
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Re: Solid, but tough decision to bring brownell back next year
Mar 17, 2022, 8:05 AM
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I wouldn't require wins in the NCAAT. That wasn't an issue with OP, so I don't think it should be a requirement for Brownell. I do think winning a game in the ACCT probably needs to be, though, even though I don't like the format.
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Tiger Spirit [9890]
TigerPulse: 71%
44
Posts: 10036
Joined: 2017
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Solid waste
1
Mar 17, 2022, 8:12 AM
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of another year.
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Replies: 55
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