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Orange Blooded [2002]
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My thoughts on people blaming the refs....
Jan 29, 2015, 12:58 AM
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Before I start, referees have cost us many a game with ticky tack foul calls, unseen travels and 3 second counts etc.
However, after re watching the game I didn't see anything like that in this game. NCSU came out with pressure in the second half, leading to us turning the ball over many times and they capitalized on these turnovers. When all was said and done it was 47-44, and we were on the ropes. However, from this point on blossomgame made a basket plus the and-1 which he missed, making it 49-44. After that. Nc state was called for an over the back giving us the ball back. Right afterwards, state was called for an off the ball foul putting us one away from the bonus, from which we scored on a grantham lay in.
Then Harrison blocks a 3 point attempt which could have been called a foul easily, and after this ncsu is called for an offensive foul on a key basket for them.
If the refs were trying to screw us over, this sequence would never have happened. Instead our team rebounded from their second half pressure, and played well to win us the game. There have been many instance of refs changing the game but this was not one of them in my eyes, we flat out won it. Looking forward to the rest of the season and go tigers!!!
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All-In [46904]
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Re: My thoughts on people blaming the refs....
Jan 29, 2015, 1:21 AM
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Roper is growing up and the last game the gained the confidence they needed. We should have won the Florida State game. Winning the last game at the last second something changed in this team. They believe they should be 6-2 instead of 4/4 in the ACC. We might just have a good team this year. They have now forgot about looking for McDaniel to pull them out and block a shot. He has developed evenly offence and defense. I like this team!
Go Tigers!!
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All-TigerNet [10920]
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For a while in the 2nd half, as State started to come back..
Jan 29, 2015, 2:29 AM
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there were about 3 times that State was obviously climbing on our backs to get offensive rebounds, and one of the turnovers looked like an obvious foul, so I started thinking we were about to get screwed by the refs. But other than that, I agree, it was a pretty well called game and we had a few that went our way too.
I doesn't take but a couple questionable calls, especially on tobacco road, to get our fans screaming at the refs, because we have gotten the shaft from them many times, especially in Chapel Hill.
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110%er [7191]
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Re: My thoughts on people blaming the refs....
Jan 29, 2015, 4:10 AM
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I don't blame the officals,i credit the win to underinflated balls.
If N.E. can get away withit,why can't we?
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Trainer [31]
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Re: My thoughts on people blaming the refs....
Jan 29, 2015, 7:37 AM
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your right the last 8 minutes of the game the refs called a good game, but the first 10 minutes of the second half was frustrating to watch. The only reason state got back into the game was because of the refs. Yes we had a few bad turnovers but besides that there were obvious over the back calls that were not called, calling touch fouls on us(11 fouls in 9 minutes compared to calling just 3 on state), but Clemson definitely earned this win once again beating the refs at the same time. Go Tigers!
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Associate AD [819]
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The last 8 minutes we had State reverting back
Jan 29, 2015, 7:45 AM
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to a lot of jump shooting, thus less contact and chance for fouls. That is usually how it goes. They were wearing us out inside at the beginning of the 2nd half, fouls or not.
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CU Medallion [54179]
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Partner, they called three bull crap illegal screens on us
Jan 29, 2015, 8:07 AM
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in the first three minutes and on another screen, where the State player fought through it and hammered Harrison, forcing the ball to go out of bounds...there was no call,except to say it would be State's ball out of bounds. My compliments to Brownell and our players for not losing composure, but they won in spite of the refs efforts to turn the tide.
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Associate AD [819]
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It is the ultimate cry of the lazy, stupid fan
Jan 29, 2015, 7:42 AM
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whose team is losing and not playing well, which we weren't in the beginning of that second half and State came out with way more urgency and energy. Can't stand ref blamers....just shut up. Was anyone blaming the refs when we outshot FSU by nearly 20 free throws or were the refs doing a fantastic job that night?
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Trainer [31]
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Re: It is the ultimate cry of the lazy, stupid fan
Jan 29, 2015, 7:57 AM
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you must be a referee yourself. just like 99% of them ignorant.
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Associate AD [819]
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So how was the ref performance against FSU?***
Jan 29, 2015, 8:30 AM
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Trainer [31]
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Re: So how was the ref performance against FSU?***
Jan 29, 2015, 8:42 AM
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well i assume your talking about the last 5 minutes of the game but ya they missed some calls... that has nothing to do with this game we lost and we didnt deserve to win that game.. played like crap and made half of our free throws.
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Associate AD [819]
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We got over twice as many free throws as FSU did.
Jan 29, 2015, 8:47 AM
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Was that a well called game? I didn't actually watch it, the only game I've missed this year.
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Trainer [31]
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Re: We got over twice as many free throws as FSU did.
Jan 29, 2015, 8:54 AM
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if your asking me your asking the wrong person i think probably 1 in 10 games is called well. the refs were more on our side for that game i would say but it did not matter because we couldn't hit free throws and we lost like we should have.
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Hall of Famer [22965]
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pardon my latin phrasing....
Jan 29, 2015, 8:15 AM
[ in reply to It is the ultimate cry of the lazy, stupid fan ] |
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but thats just bullsh!t. You either didn't watch the entire game or your basketball savvy is sorely lacking.
The first half was called not allowing over-aggressiveness, not allowing reaching and grabbing the dribbler, not allowing "over the back" rebounding.....Clemson out-hustled and outshot NCSt and took a commanding lead.
Everyone (including the officials---and as I posted yesterday, I'd never had a problem with Tim Nester) including the officials KNEW NCSt would come out in the second half being uber-aggressive to try and whittle down a 20 point deficit. Its one thing being ultra-aggresive within the confines of the rules and how the game is being called, but the wolfpack far exceeded that parameter on numerous occasions. But in the first 8-10 minutes of the 2nd half, the officials began allowing State's big guys to go over the back of Clemson rebounders when the Tigers had position under the board. The clutching and grabbing of anyone in orange dribbling the ball got ludicrous.....it was about as close as I've seen Coach Brownell come to actually dressing down the refs--on several occasions. No "touch fouls" were called on NCSt during this 8 min. run, but several were called on Clemson. How would you rationally explain that Clemson, with a 20 point lead, got to bonus early in the 2nd half when State who was trailing by a large deficit and being so aggressive on both ends of the court only had 2 fouls????
There was an incident near mid-court when Dante Grantham had the ball and was literally knocked to the ground by two NCSt players one of whom initiated a semi-loose ball by reaching in and fouling from behind. During the immediate aftermath of the play, an NCSt. player threw an elbow at Grantham and then mysteriously, the officials decided the physicality was close to getting out of hand and reverted back to calling the game they way they had in the first half.
You need to go back and re-watch the game with a slow/stop motion effect. The TV announcers seemed to acknowledge what was happening and the Clemson radio announcers most certainly did.
Message was edited by: tigrjm76®
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Associate AD [819]
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I know this can be hard for some of you to comprehend,
Jan 29, 2015, 8:35 AM
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but it is highly possible for one team to be fouling and playing more undisciplined than the other team and the refs make the call. I guess I'm just not basketball savvy enough to know that the refs need to give even amounts of fouls or it means a conspiracy is afoot. Like I said, and it happens waaaay more annoyingly in football, it is a tired battle cry.
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Hall of Famer [22965]
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Re: I know this can be hard for some of you to comprehend,
Jan 29, 2015, 8:51 AM
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.... "I guess I'm just not basketball savvy enough."
Your own statement seems to sum it up. I offered specific examples, encapsulated the officiating during the game and yet you offer no concrete refutations. I think my comprehension of both the game, the coaching, the officiating and your trolling post is accurate
Yours is the fgf approach to discussion.
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Associate AD [819]
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Disagree with somebody and the
Jan 29, 2015, 9:02 AM
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troll/FGF comments begin. Typical....and I never said the refs were perfect last night. I only was pointing out the ref blaming gets old so fast and it's usually the same people. It was a good back and forth game.
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Hall of Famer [22965]
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Re: Disagree with somebody and the
Jan 29, 2015, 9:11 AM
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I guess my "lack of comprehension" is preventing me from seeing you make a valid, concrete point to refute any example of officiating offered. Generalize and remain vague...
&I don't really think that game was a good "back and forth game". IMO, a good "back and forth" game is one where the score remains close throughout and lead changes are frequent. Last nights game was the outcome of three long, lopsided scoring runs....fortunately two of them were by the Tigers. And there was no lead change after the first 3 or 4 minutes
Message was edited by: tigrjm76®
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Associate AD [819]
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I liked the intensity, especially second half but
Jan 29, 2015, 9:19 AM
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you are probably about to tell me it wasn't intense. It was something else entirely. Kudos though on pointing out a few plays that got your gears grinding. I guess I don't expect refs to call perfect games. I didn't see the big deal in that first 8 minutes.
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All-TigerNet [13063]
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You just don't get those over the back calls when your
Jan 29, 2015, 9:28 AM
[ in reply to pardon my latin phrasing.... ] |
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getting worked right under the basket on the offensive glass. You just don't. Over the back gets called when somebody comes flying into the lane and jumps on another player's back or if it's really egregious with a hand on the back or head pushing off and the player gets pushed down or onto the floor. Anything short of that and it's fair game right under the bucket. AND THATS HOW I WANT IT. I absolutely abhor games where the refs call ticky tack fouls around the rim. Let the big men be big men.
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CU Medallion [64747]
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ACC basketball refs have a long and distinguished history...
Jan 29, 2015, 8:17 AM
[ in reply to It is the ultimate cry of the lazy, stupid fan ] |
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of protecting the tobacco road teams, especially Duke and UNC, and anyone who even remotely attempts to argue to the contrary is either new to ACC basketball, a Duke/UNC fan, completely blind, or deliberately ignoring the obvious.
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All-In [26968]
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I love posts like this...
Jan 29, 2015, 8:31 AM
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*strong opinion*
ANYONE WHO DISAGREES WITH ME IS *string of insults*
Great argument there.
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CU Medallion [64747]
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Hey....
Jan 29, 2015, 8:55 AM
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if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck.
I do like the way you think though; it's insulting to refer to someone as a Duke or UNC fan 
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Hall of Famer [22965]
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You may not agree with his approach...
Jan 29, 2015, 8:56 AM
[ in reply to I love posts like this... ] |
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but after nearly 60 years of watching and attending ACC basketball, I assure you his conclusion is accurate.
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Oculus Spirit [83266]
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Not really.***
Jan 29, 2015, 9:19 AM
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Orange Blooded [2537]
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jbthe1tiger99 agrees with the ref hating! ;-)
Jan 29, 2015, 8:37 AM
[ in reply to ACC basketball refs have a long and distinguished history... ] |
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VERY SELDOM do they call a fair & balanced game for us.
that's just the way it is & always has been, especially whenEver we play one of the favorite NC teams...
Just as we all know & everyone claims that Clemson is a football school, we aren't expected to do well in B-ball....so we don't get the looks from officials, or the what should be standard - credit & respect from refs & other teams.
Nothing has changed here, & everyone but Clemson wishes us ill-will.
Which is why we lose alot of close games due to officiating, & are constantly having to beat both opponent's teams on the court (& sometimes 3 teams when we just can't put it together...).
I think if Brownell can continue to improve our team, recruiting, & facilities...then folks will be forced to take notice & give us due credit & respect. He's had a tough road so far, but has done alot with what he's had, minus some bad slip-ups from time to time & big losses (which happens).
we have soooo much potential here in Clemson....for literally every sport!!!
I don't blame the refs every game, but to say it doesn't & hasnt happened - officiating costing us the game - is insanity, or your eyes are missing (even the radio guys commented on the bad calls...).
I'd simply like to see the refs call the game fairly BOTH ways...call the same fouls, the same way for both teams...no ignorance or favoritism or pre-choosing the winning team not based on play on the court.
TAI refs!
Go Tigers!
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Associate AD [819]
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We lose a lot of close ones because we can't hit free throws
Jan 29, 2015, 8:41 AM
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when it matters. That is why over the years teams have pretty much deliberately put us on the line in crunch time.
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Orange Blooded [2537]
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Oh yeah, onto football. we lost games as a direct result of sh1tty calls!!!
Jan 29, 2015, 8:46 AM
[ in reply to jbthe1tiger99 agrees with the ref hating! ;-) ] |
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See: FSU game (Rushing TD called short & NOT EVEN REVIEWED!!!??? = cost Clemson the whole game! PERIOD!!! (Among other things...)
AND....I'd be willing to bet that you objectively thought that the 2 targeting calls we got with Stephone Anthony vs USuCk & in the WF game were probably legit!? LMAO!!!!
So, come on out of the closet now wearing your white & black striped shirt & twirling your little whistle....ref guilt is strong in this one^^^^!!!!
Lol....refrigerate....was supposed to be referring*
Srupid auto-correct!
Message was edited by: jbthe1tiger99®
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Orange Blooded [2537]
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I mentioned us beating ourselves & tripping over our own feet...
Jan 29, 2015, 8:52 AM
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Free throws are big in some of the games we lost as a result....
It's not every game they cost us though, or the officiating.
BUT SOMETIMES (like last night) the refs are relentlessly wrong & harder/more nitt-picky against us than the opponent.
YES, that DOES & has blown many a game for us...and there have been a few bad games this year!
You can also refer to the last game of last season & Duke if you need factually backed up instances...
screw the FSU game! It's over, different game & time....you should find a new argument than that 1 game for a comparison.
Message was edited by: jbthe1tiger99®
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Oculus Spirit [83266]
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Correction:
Jan 29, 2015, 9:18 AM
[ in reply to ACC basketball refs have a long and distinguished history... ] |
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ACC basketball refs have a long and distinguished history of giving a few calls to the teams with the most star players especially if they have HOF coaches. This is the same all over the country. It ain't just the ACC.
UK gets calls in the SEC. The Celtics got calls with Bird. The Lakers got calls with Magic. The Bulls got calls with Jordan. Lebron gets calls now. All the stars do.
It ain't intentional usually. Refs are human also.
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All-Pro [683]
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Re: My thoughts on people blaming the refs....
Jan 29, 2015, 7:44 AM
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You are as blind and prejudiced as the refs. Yes, NC State came out fighting and out playing CU at the start of the 2nd half. But, it was fueled by climbing our backs, shoving our players with the ball, shoving the ball screens into our or their players. fouling our rebounders, driving and shoving off the with the non-shooting arm... Yes these things happen, but not to this extent and that is what allowed NC State's run,
And yes, CU did win in spite of this and on its own merit.
The officiating sucked out loud in the 2nd half. Only reason it didn't in the first half is we shot lights out and shocked NC State and the refs.
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Trainer [31]
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Re: My thoughts on people blaming the refs....
Jan 29, 2015, 7:54 AM
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agree 100% Go Tigers!
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Commissioner [944]
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Re: My thoughts on people blaming the refs....
Jan 29, 2015, 8:11 AM
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College officials are bad, let me say that up front, however, they are bad to everyone. Mr. Cherry is a bad official, he is as bad to FSU as he is Clemson. The last thing these guys want to do is get it wrong in front of a million people. The NFL has as good officials as any organization there is, how many times do you see them blow a call in a week....many. The replay has been a great thing for football, I hate the delays, however, it helps the crew get it right.
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110%er [6937]
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Re: They missed a few both ways***
Jan 29, 2015, 9:16 AM
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All-TigerNet [13063]
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I thought the officiating was fine.
Jan 29, 2015, 9:22 AM
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Start of the 2nd half was frustrating but those were legit fouls. They were getting into the lane on us and dominating the offensive glass and we inevitably ended up fouling on quite a few of those possessions.
Turnovers and a drop in defensive intensity is what let State back into the game, not the refs.
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Orange Blooded [2537]
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we won the game...
Jan 29, 2015, 9:33 AM
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Nobody's blaming them for a "loss" last night.
The game has to be played for its entirety.
fluxuations in playing intensity, back&forths, ups&downs all happen in a game...
What's being pointed out here (with actual instances & times of said bad calls) is that bad officiating will inevitably happen, but more balanced officiating would be applauded, & that alone could potentially & definitely would allow us to win a few more games.
We rarely get the benefit of doubt from refs or game announcers...but EVEN THEY pointed out the refs shortcomings in our direction, both on tv & radio!
They don't chastise the officials without reason....that's not in their best interest.
so when THEY point it out, you'd better listen & believe it...
Go tigers!
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Orange Blooded [2537]
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what's your take on the unbalanced # of lame lil touch-fouls then?
Jan 29, 2015, 9:36 AM
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They happened, & were called heavily against us to NCSt's favor....
did you see them? Your take?
Just sayin, TIA...
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Associate AD [819]
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Watch it now!
Jan 29, 2015, 9:38 AM
[ in reply to I thought the officiating was fine. ] |
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Incoming troll and FGF comments and conspiracies against our program are on the way.....in all seriousness, you saw what I saw. The Tigers got their composure and mojo back and held them off. I guess the refs were helping that one kid drain 3 after 3.
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Orange Blooded [2537]
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dude....the game still has to be played & you must execute
Jan 29, 2015, 10:40 AM
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At some point during a game, you have to be good enough to pull ahead of the opponent.
No ####....
the point is the officials can change the outcome of the game & control momentum.
it happens most easily & frequently by calling bullcrap fouls...some such as last night.
Did it help them stay in the game & catch up almost? Maybe it did or didn't, perhaps God just wanted it that way...
that's not what I'm arguing because we won & they didnt, so it doesn't change anything.
It was noted they made lots af little crap calls on us. I'm not the only one of that opininion.
it does happen often to us & there's more video clips & pics of it costing us games on one play (yes, 1 play or miss can cost you the game, whether free-throw or layup or a T) than I care to dig through for you...
What's your deal? Such that you simply want to be annoying & argue an unfavorable point to the nth degree?
There are other that'd agree with you but they art being adamant ######...
D@mn, you're a hard-headed cootish troll...casting the troll stone first there pal!
I never called you a troll there coot-ref
Billy L? Tigerfanjack? Leadcoot?...etc....is that you?
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Associate AD [819]
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Dude....relax.
Jan 29, 2015, 10:53 AM
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It is an opinion different than yours. Accept it and move on. I was speaking about another person with the troll stuff but you stepped up nicely there to prove my point further. Have a good day. The BC game is a brand new one.
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Standout [321]
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Re: My thoughts on people blaming the refs....
Jan 29, 2015, 10:54 AM
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I hate ticky-tacky fouls on our big men at 25 feet from the basket -- particularly when no advantage was gained. Every foul called is worth about 1 point. And early in the second half they were inventing fouls on Clemson (where there was no actual contact).
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Standout [321]
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Re: My thoughts on people blaming the refs....
Jan 29, 2015, 11:00 AM
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At one point about halfway through the second half, 10 fouls had been called on Clemson - versus 2 on State. The CU radio announcers were raising a bunch of non-calls that should have been State fouls... Poor Nhoko gets called if he is within a foot of a shooter.
The zebras did all they could to get State back into the game.
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